I had to laugh at his, this, statement from the shut down thread:
(If people like you spent more time with FSU girls and finding as much real imformation about the people and people like jim you wouldnt have to spend all your time on this forum.)
What he is telling people to do is to get off of this website and get on to Jim's website, the website that Jim cannot even maintain! Now if that is not stealth commercial advertising for Jum then I don't know what is!
Removed by Russian mafia????????
How can anyone obtain that kind of information?????
martin-coleman, what is a pillock??...I have never heard of this saying before.....
I have personally found that uaprofiler is a scam site..There is woman listed as a scammer on the site who actually HELPED me in nikolaev while the scam agency 'a slavgirl.com' just left me on my own to walk around the streets...She told me that she on the site because somebody took a photo of her, but that photo got into the wrong hands...The woman is honest and she is not LISTED OR HAS BEEN on any scam FSU dating sites....
Here is another scam with-in a scam..AOB agencies 'anti scam black list'..If you need a good laugh, then have a look at the names they come up with for the 'scam' women and have a read where they are located...Most in africa...I even mentioned this on the AOB guestbook forum and the AOB managers did not say a word...
martin-coleman. i have a question for you..
Who do you trust to tell people the truth about what agencies are good fro those who are bad??
Martin
I had to laugh at TinTin's nonsense. Wasn't he the guy that said this was all a big scam? Pissed and moaned about the women, now uses an avatar with a woman in it. What a joke, the only person I heard condemn this more has Been David USA.
Sorry TinTin, I spend my time here telling other guys about guys like you. You know this is impossible. Can't be done. March I will be married to the impossible for three years and have known her close to six. Best move I ever made. The problem with most guys is they think that where they live, their socio-economic status will overcome their shortcomings. These girls are smarter than that. Especially the smart educated ones with common sense. They didn't survive in the environment they did because they were stupid.
Guys need to know there is no special technique, nor a plan or map to success here. What works for one guy may not work for another. It takes hard work and commitment. They guys who think they can buy a 20 something with their money is a scammers lawful prey. If she's out of your league at home, you can damn bet she's probably out of your league in Ukraine. Finding a genuine woman is worth the search here. I wouldn't trade a moment of time I've spent on this for anything else in the world.
The other classic (advertising for Jim) line from TinTin was this one:
(just have to look at the site.Many thousands of hours have gone into it.)
We were all meant to say 'wow' and immediately rush to Jim's site to admire the work that TinTin claims had gone in to it, what is TinTin on, pay-per-click or similar?, and when that didn't work then he slated us off, told us to spend more time with FSU girls but couldn't resist dropping, yet again, Jim's name in to the sentence whilst telling us to get off this forum.
He's as transparent as cling film, he even starts a thread to say he's received an email, I think I'll start a thread to let everybody know when Jim may fart, as Olga kind of indicated, who, except TinTin, gives a sh1t about Jim? :)
Sooty, it's just a theory like you said. The definition of a theory is:
"A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly".
That you are not TINTIN is not what I said in what you called a theory. What I said is there is a connection between you and TINTIN, if you're not the same person.
ragingbull , I would like to hear your theory on the JFK assasination too. Was it Aliens from Roswell-Lee Harvey Oswald,Elvis Presley or a combination of all 3 that were responsible.
"Mmm...I'm surprised someone hasn't tried to shoe-horn a Muslim conspiracy theory into the Kennedy assasination."
Which Kennedy?
And how about a proArab (anti Israeli) theory as opposed to simply a Muslim theory.
"According to Sirhan's mother, Mary Sirhan, he killed Kennedy because of his Arab nationalism. She said, "What he did, he did for his country." Further, Sirhan believed he was deliberately betrayed by Kennedy's support for Israel in the June 1967 Six-Day War,[9] which had begun exactly one year before the assassination."
or those of you who have any questions about the validity of JimsLists.com I offer the following collections of e-mails between myself, Jim and Yuriy Gorbov the owner/operator of V&V Agency, a small, 1 man operation in Taganrog, Russia. The first part of this is the posting on JimsLists.com. As you read it, note the tone that it takes: first he says “it is a long time coming”, then claims the agency is a mystery and states a reason that you will soon see is a figment of his imagination. He then cannot remember why he removed V&V from his site and claims there is a wealth of info on Google about them. Most of what I was able to find in a Google search was what was on Jim’s site. Suddenly, at the end of his posting about V&V he remembers that it was all about a letter received from a girl on Elena’s Models who informed an inquisitive patron that she was contracted with V&V. If this is the case then why was she on Elena’s Models to begin with? (Remember that this letter was likely translated by Elena’s employees). What I found really interesting about Jim is his inability to rationally deal with facts. When presented with proof that he was fabricating his story he simply turns on the God switch and says it’s his web site and every one else can go to hell.
Something certainly does smell fishy!
I have separated the e-mails with ***** for clarity and censored some of the contact information for privacy reasons, other than that this is how it went down. Sit back and enjoy the read…
From Jim's Website
Your Russian, Latin & Asian Marriage Agency Checklist - By THE Leader in Anti-Scam - Jim
Home | Gold List | White List | Grey List | Black List | No List | Refused List | Anti-Scam | Contact Jim
Why is "Valentin & Valentina - V & V" (v-and-v.com) on my Grey List? This is a long time coming. This agency is a mystery. I once had them on my list because they were apparently kicked out of the Angelika Network for fishy behaviour. I cannot, for the life of me, remember why I removed them.
There should be a lot of info for you to find on google.
But, because of the past, and the letter below, V & V is an agency that you should research before using. I got a report from a guy that he got this letter from a girl who he had written to at Elena's Models. I have not heard from Elena if this agency is on her known agency list. Until I do, they will sit here. Here is the letter.
Dear ****,
I am very sorry, but there is only ONE way to communicate with me – through V&V agency. I have decided to join the agency "Valentin-and-Valentina " because I know about the excellent results of their work. Many women are happily married and live abroad with their husbands. Some of these women I know personally. I did sign a CONTRACT with V&V agency. I am an honest girl, so...
Best regards,
Masha
As a rule, when you get a letter like this, it is nad news. Any girl that is advertising an agency, has a reason to do so. Why would a girl care about which agency you (or she) use? Usually, it is because they have an interest in the agency. The contract part? BULLSHIT!!!!
Girls are free to deal with any agency they want, and if they are being held hostage by an agency, that is a HUGE reason for you to avoid the agency and for me to blacklist them. Be careful using this agency. Let me know if you have info on them.
*****
From: bill@***.com
To: jim@agencyscams.com
Subject: Scam List - V&V Agency
Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 13:53:02 -0500
Jim,
My name is Bill Morgan and I am a resident of Florida, USA. A friend of mine recently informed me that another friend of mine, the man responsible for my wife and I meeting, was on your "list" @ http://agencyscams.com/Why/v-and-v.html. This concerns me greatly because I have grown to know and trust this man and can tell you with the utmost certainty that he is a man of honor and integrity. The reality of it is that he went out of his way, without compensation, to help my wife and myself with our "long-distance" relationship and subsequent immigration process. I will certainly admit that he has aspirations of being a capitalist. What Russian with new-found freedoms does not? But he is honest and I will stand by him to the end and he has my highest recommendations for his marriage agency services. Just so you know he is a contractor for Eleview International. I do not really know how all this upper level stuff works but my wife and I met on-line through rBrides.com and as it turns out she was there because Yuriy uses them to increase the effectiveness of his agency (they are known world-wide). I cannot speak to Eleview or rBrides but Yuriy is a class act and I trust him fully. Even when I asked for him to help arrange for me to send funds to Tanya for her trip to America (I did not escort her to the USA) he did not ask for a fee for this service nor did he in anyway suggest that such would be needed. I have met his wife and children and they are a lovely and caring family.
I hope this in some way eases your concerns about V&V and that you see that it is unfair and unjust to include him on your "Grey List".
If you have any questions for me in this matter, please contact me at ***-***-****.
Sincerely yours,
Bill Morgan
Satisfied customer of Yuriy Gorbov and V&V Agency.
*****
----- Original Message -----
From: "Agency Scams" <jim@agencyscams.com>
To: <yuriy@***>
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: Jim's List
Yuriy,
Your agency does not have a good reputation. Maybe YOU think so, and some clients....but it is not as good as you think.
I don't appreciate "REMOVE" demands. It is much better to talk to me nicely. And my reasons are MY reasons. I do not care what agency owners think, say or DEMAND.
will remove your agency, if I don't receive any complaints, in ONE month. After that, if I get more complaints, I will add it again.
Also, tell your friend that I have PROOF that you have done bad things in the past. It is hard to trust someone in the present, but I am always fair. I just do not like DEMANDS.
Best of Luck,
Jim
DREAM-MARRIAGE.COM is a HUGE scam! They made AGENCYSCAMS.NET to discredit
me. They copied anastasia-international.com's style step by step.
JIM'S Original Anti-Scam Site - http://agencyscams.com
JIM'S Agency Checklist Site - http://jimslists.com
*****
From: yuriy@***
To: jim@agencyscams.com
CC: bill@***
Subject: to not fair Jim :-((
Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:20:53 +0400
Dear Jim,
I have been working in this business for 13 years !!!! I have met HUNDREDS people!!!
Can you have a deal with such quantity people WITHOUT just ONE complain ?
I COULD !!!!;-)))
Yes, I am eager to see "bad things" which "I have done in the past" ...
But I do doubt you have something...:-( only words WITHOUT any FACTS ! :-(
You are telling me about policy and reputation ??!! You did include my good agency in your black list without CHECKING !!!:-(( shame to you !
You should think TWICE before including an HONEST agency in your list ! ;-)
It is very easy to damage good agency because such sites like yours...:-(
Yes, I DEMAND to remove my agency from your list !!!
Any case thank you for your answer...
Best regards,
Yuriy
*****
(This is an update that Jim made to his V&V posting after the above correspondence)
UPDATE - MAY 09
The owner, Yuriy, contacted me and demanded that I remove his agency from my Black List because I have no proof. So, I told him that I would remove his agency in one month, if I didn't receive any complaints.
He then DEMANDED again that I remove his agency from my site. DID YOU READ THAT? I told him that I WOULD remove his agency, but he continued to yell at me and make demands.
His ONE main point is that I have no proof about bad things at this agency.
So, here it is...
The Angelika Network kicked him out of their network for writing fake letters. The letter above from a girl is proof that the agency is BAD!!!!!!!!!!
This is my last letter from the owner...
Subject: Re: to very fair Jim :-((
From: Юрий Горбов / СИСТЕМЫ ТУМАНООБРАЗ 054;ВАНИЯ <yuriy@***>
Date: Mon, May 18, 2009 2:03 pm
To: "Agency Scams" <jim@agencyscams.com>
Priority: High
Options: View Full Header | View Printable Version | Download this as a file
ha-ha :-) when did you visit your psychologist last time ??
you need to take care about your nerves...LOL
Jim's philosophy on agencies....an agency is only as good as its owner.
This agency is exactly that. Good aegncy owners talk to me. Bad agency owners yell at me I would NEVER use this agency.
*****
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Morgan" <bill@***>
To: <angel@angelika.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:32 PM
Can you please provide me with any information, positive or negative that you may have on an agency in Taganrog, Russia named Valentin & Valentina.
I understand they were at one time affiliated with your company.
Thank you,
Bill Morgan
*****
From: angel@angelika.net
To: bill@***
Subject: Re:
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:58:57 +0200
Hello Bill,
I have just checked the list of our agencies and I can tell you that we have never worked with the agency "Valentin and Valentina". We actually even did not have an office in Taganrog, the closest office to Taganrog was the office in Rostov on Don.
If you need any help or advise, or have any questions about our service, please let me know and we'll do our best to help.
Kind Regards,
Oksana Cook,
Angelika Russian Marriage Agency Network
http://www.angelika.net
*****
----- Original Message -----
From: bill@***
To: jim@agencyscams.com
Cc: angel@angelika.net
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:54 AM
Subject: Valentin & Valentina Agency
Jim,
Bill Morgan here again,
Your website makes 2 claims that Yuriy & I take exception to. First is your claim that an anonymous individual received a letter from an anonymous woman claiming to have done business with Valentin & Valentina Agency (a.k.a V&V). Your second claim is that Angelika Network has expelled V&V from their network based on fraudulent acts perpetrated by V&V.
As part of your first claim you also state that women do not have contracts with agencies. We will address both aspects of this first claim:
"The letter above from a girl is proof that the agency is BAD!!!!!!!!!!"
You have not provided any information as to the identities of either the person claiming to have received this letter or the person who is claimed to have written it. There is no way to refute this scant evidence only because you have failed to provide any pertinent information necessary to research records in this matter. This is not proof. It is only hearsay and it is third hand hearsay at best. This would be thrown out of any court in the nation.
"Girls are free to deal with any agency they want, and if they are being held hostage by an agency, that is a HUGE reason for you to avoid the agency and for me to blacklist them."
The second part of your first claim is based only on your opinion
he second part of your first claim is based only on your opinion of how some agencies may operate. I have inquired at Eleview International and even asked a woman who I once corresponded with if she had a contract. The answer from both was yes. Contracts are not unusual with these agencies and they are operated very similar to our very own Kelly Services. The person seeking the service signs a proprietary contract and agrees to participate exclusively with the agency, usually for a fee. The agency can also charge a fee for the person receiving the benefits on the other end, i.e. I pay Kelly to find me a job, they get me hired as a temp at a local business. I pay, the business pays, Kelly rakes in the bucks, perfectly legal and done every day. A smart agency would be making money from both ends. A contract insures that money from the asset will go to the company and an asset cannot terminate the contract at will without some penalty being assessed.
So, in a nutshell, your first claim lacks any substantiating or corroborating evidence and speaks in the face of normal business practices.
"The Angelika Network kicked him out of their network for writing fake letters."
Your second claim is that Angelika Network had "kicked him out" of their network. Clearly this is a fabrication as evidenced by Angelika's own records that show V&V never had any working relationship or otherwise with Angelika Network.
So in a nutshell, your second claim is clearly false.
I did a little research on my own and this is what Angelika Network has to say about the matter.
From: angel@angelika.net
To: bill@***
Subject: Re:
Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 19:58:57 +0200
Hello Bill,
I have just checked the list of our agencies and I can tell you that we have never worked with the agency "Valentin and Valentina". We actually even did not have an office in Taganrog, the closest office to Taganrog was the office in Rostov on Don.
If you need any help or advise, or have any questions about our service, please let me know and we'll do our best to help.
Kind Regards,
Oksana Cook,
Angelika Russian Marriage Agency Network
http://www.angelika.net
"Good aegncy owners talk to me. Bad agency owners yell at me"
Yuriy "yells" at you because you are spreading unsubstantiated rumors and lies about his agency. The e-mail above proves that your claims are false. I ask again for you to reconsider your course of action with regard to Yuriy and his agency.
I am Cc'ing this to Angelika Network so they are in the loop that their good name is being used in your effort to defame innocent independent agencies. I cannot prevent you from doing what you do but perhaps those that you claim you support might have better luck reigning you in.
At this time, I am keeping the communications regarding these wrongful actions, between yourself, myself, Yuriy, and Angelika Network as they are unwilling parties to your slander. Wouldn't it be great if it stayed that way?
Yuriy is a good man. He is an honest man and he works very hard for his customers. As stated above, he has exploited only an area not covered by Angelika Network. You have done this good man a serious injustice and on behalf of Yuriy, I ask you to right this wrong and clear his name, and that of his agency, from your site immediately.
Sincerely,
Bill Morgan
*****
From: yuriy@***
To: bill@***
Subject: Re: Valentin & Valentina Agency
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 12:30:01 +0400
Bill,
Thank you for your help and your fight for my good name !!! I do appreciate it !!!
Thank you very MUCH !!!
Bets wishes,
Yuriy
*****
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 15:34:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Valentin & Valentina Agency
From: jim@agencyscams.com
To: bill@***
Bill,
I don't know who you are and why I would care that you take exception to anything I do or write. Fact is, I don't care. The agency OWNER is free to talk to me. I have the identities of the letter writers, and I prefer to keep them private. That is my choice. If someone has a problem with that, it is not my problem.
I told Yuriy that I would remove his agency from the list and he continued to be rude to me.
So, here is the deal. (DON'T FORGET, I make the rules about MY site. Don't like it? I don't care.) I made a date to remove V&V from my site. That date has been pushed back another month because of this letter from you. It will be pushed back another month for EVERY letter I get from you, Yuriy or anyone else complaining about V&V being on my site.
Before Monday of next week, I will make changes to the page. No other changes will be made. I will delete the page on the date I have decided. Don't ask me when that is.
EVERY letter I get in regards to V&V pushes back the removal date. End of discussion.
Best of Luck,
Jim
DREAM-MARRIAGE.COM is a HUGE scam! They made AGENCYSCAMS.NET to discredit me. They copied anastasia-international.com's style step by step.
JIM'S Original Anti-Scam Site - http://agencyscams.com
JIM'S Agency Checklist Site - http://jimslists.com
*****
The problem here is that Yuriy is a nice guy. He was fair and helpful and I recommend him to anyone interested in a woman from the Taganrog area. Jim on the other hand is a megalomaniac who has found more power in his web site than he can handle.
Unfortunately for Yuriy, there are few laws at this point that protect his rights and good name and a large amount of money and attorneys would be necessary to fight this. Jim knows that. The best way to fight it is to get the word out that while his site and others may provide good information, believing that they are just doing this as a pseudo-crusade is foolish.
There is money at stake and Jim, like so many others is out to cash in. Yuriy is doing this by marketing his knowledge of the process, speaking 2 languages and having a sincere interest in what he does. Jim does this by trashing the competition of his benefactor. A scam is a scam and Jim’s website is bogus.
Jim has no more experience, probably significantly less experience, than the likes of nasfan, I and a few others around these parts.
Jim is only in this to make money and he's obviously done pretty well with the meta tags/words of his website just by the number of guys that have come to this forum blurting "Jim says this, Jim says that".
But, the thing is, if a good reputable agency declines to pay Jim any dosh then they go on his grey or black list whilst a totally corrupt agency could pay him $$$ to go on his gold list thus he's scamming, by deception, those very individuals that sing his praises.
There was the Australian guy that was here some months back, totally full of sh1t as we have become accustomed to, that had been scammed in Nikolaev and, whilst singing Jim's praises, Jim told him he had never heard of the involved agency.
Well a quick search on Google revealed all about that agency, Jim could have Googled himself and made himself out to be so knowledgable but, apparently, he couldn't be bothered to help that individual because there was no money in it for Jim.
With a number of bona fida blacklists out there one can source more reliable information than Jim provides by Googling, and not just blacklists, ladies email addresses can pop up in a variety of places and accessible via Google.
Jim has no place in the market, he's trying to create a place, by deception, and only to deceive others whilst lining his own pockets.
I have three takes on this whole fiasco. First I admire Bill in his zeal but my feelings towards agencys and scam lists are much the same. My first question is what did Yuri do for the immigration process?
First take, It is his website and he can do what he pleases, it is an editorial opinion, there are anti scam merchants that also put harmless women on their websites as scammers showing that they are doing something. Jims information comes directly from people like us, their lies the problem and the problem with antiscam sites.Any spurned guy can place a bitch on his website. Everyone that has a link on their sites are usually doing it for money.
My second take and this is my personal outlook on business. I could really give a rats ass what Jim put on his stupid website as long as I did my customers honestly and ethically.
One mans opinion isn't going to change the way I do business. If that's the case, name one business that doesn't get complaints from customers? Lawyers and Car Salesman are the lowest of the low, but I have two friends that are in those professions. Both honest and ethical in their dealings with the public
Three who really believes these anti scam sites do all the checking. Or that they don't steal information from other blacklists? As some agencys steal photos of women to put on their websites? It would take some large money to do all the investigative work it requires to follow up on all the complaints, this includes Elena's models, who seems to have her site on many anti scam sites. If I remember correctly she started the first real true blacklist. I'm not taking a hit on Elena, but as Kirkland said above Caveat Emptor and that goes with agencys, anti-scam sites and information you may get on these forums.