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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > My Trip to Yalta PART B ( The stay) Author Post Evilbaga Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/1/2008 9:39:00 PM   Well, Its August 22nd about 1:00AM. As I said, I decided not to bug Nastya, so I took a bath and went to bed. I was sweating like a pig after all that time waiting in kiev and the time spent in flights (about 16 hours flight time + 4 hours layovers + 5-6 hours incompetence) Bathroom was tiny at the Krimsky. But heck, doesnt bother me. They have a small bottle of shower gel and a small bottle of shampoo. Also there were two round little bars of soap. I used one of them. And only after I finished and was going to bed did I realize they smelled funny. Turns out they are for washing clothes, not humans. Oh well, no biggie. But I would suggest you guys take a small bar of real soap with you. I had a single room on the third floor, which from what I gather, are all on the back side of the Krimsky hotel. The view from the window is just of a wall and a road. But thats okay, I didnt come to see Yalta. I came to see Nastya. The room itself is of a Queen bed with barely walking room around it, and a desk (no chair, but you can get a plastic chair from the Balcony I guess) which has a TV on the side. The TV catches about 14 channels. Half of the channels in the Ukraine seem to show dubbed in Russian English programming - TV shows like CSI and movies like Die Hard etc. There is an Air-conditioner with a remote. And in Yalta, you need Air-Conditioning. Okay, Morning of August 22nd - I call Nastya. Shes sick! Could it be a scam? Sure, but she sure sounds sick. She says maybe we shouldnt meet today, but tomorrow. I spend the day in my room. I dont want to be outside walking about, not speaking the language. Dont even go out for food. Call her in the evening again - same deal. August 23rd Morning. About 7:30AM. Shes still sick, I tell her, or she tells me, to call her later. I ask about an apartment - she goes "huh? if you ant one I can get it for you" in a mildly surprised tone. A problem I have is I only booked the hotel room for two days because she said an apartment is a better deal and she'd get me one. So far all Ive had is some Tap Water. So I go down to the Krimsky restaurant. I order some Ham and eggs. Nice. And a bottle of water. Expensive. I think the Ham and eggs were 22 Grivnas. Water - 8. And I take a bottle of beer back to my room. Total bill 40, I leave 45. I call Nastya's mobile again around 11AM and its switched off. And then I call her again round 1:00PM. She picks out sounding barely conscious and in pain (breathing faster than normal). She says shes in the hospital. I tell her Ill call her again in the evening to which I get a uncomprehending "aahhhhhhhh..." She really does sound sick. Now heres the problem. My hotel room only lasts till the end of the day. I call Ihor, and he says its the absolute worst time because its Ukrainian National Day and all hotels are fully booked. I ask what I should do. He replies with the chilling words "I dont know". He then says after a while he can try for an apartment for the next 5 days till I leave, but no guarantees - and it may well be $200 a night minimum. So he asks (or I say) to go down to the desk and see if the krimsky has a spare room first. At the desk they say no. But they can give me my current room for a day more. So Im set till 24th 12:00PM (Afternoon). This is scary stuff. I call Ihor from my room, he says since they have given me a room for another day, he hasnt called his apartment guys. Later that evening, Nastya's phone rings, but she doesnt pick up. At this point I dont know if shes really sick or just doesnt want to see me and is not picking up - aka a wasted trip. I feel depressed, I think I really like this girl. She was one of my only two serious choices (the other one was in Sevastopol, but we stopped communicating, probably in part because I made some derogatory statement of women wanting to get married more than men, partially because it was unsure I was coming for a long time. So I have come to the Ukraine just to meet Nastya. Late at night I get a call from the front Desk. They can offer me a Double Room for the remainder of the time. The price jumps from 395 Gryvinas to 580 Gryvinas (~US$85 to ~US$130). With my budget this isnt good, but its a heck of a lot better than a shaky $200 a night. Evilbaga Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/1/2008 9:39:50 PM   (Continued) August 24th. Still no answer from Nastya's phone, though it rings. I have lunch at the restaurant. Some meat and potatoes served in a bowl with a side order of rice with vegetables (though the vegetables are just peas and corm. About 65 Gyrvinas. Around 4:30PM I have the idea to call Ihor. I explain why I came and the situation. He is about to caution me that there are many scams here concerning girls, but I cut him off and tell him I am well aware of it. Followed by "As long as Im here already, spent money on ticket and hotel - I should at least find out all I can. Basically what I ask him is how many hospitals are there in Yalta. Im expecting an answer of one, but get an answer of many. I ask further, how many which offer in-patient care? A few. Then I ask him for an interpreter to call or go to the hospitals with me so I can see if Nastya is there. He calls me back with the number of one- whos name is also coincidentally Anastasia. She says she can meet me tomorrow at 11:00AM. As it is unlikely hospitals will give information over the phone, we have to go in person. She says due to the nature of what we are doing, seeing shes never done something like this before - she will charge me... 55 gyrvinas an hour. I feel better. At least its progress. August 25th The next morning at about 10:15AM I call Nastya again after waking up. She picks up! She says Hi, Sorry my mobile was damaged. I am out of the hospital now. But I am working" I dont know what to make of it. Also her tone, now and whenever before when I called her is a little lackluster. I dont know what to think. I ask her if I can come to her shop then. She agrees and gives me the address. I get ready. Get a call from the interpreter Nastya who is downstairs. When I get down, I explain to her what happened, and offer 45 gyrvinas for her trouble and an apology. She accepts. She is off, and I get the Krimsky resident Taxi (Drivers name Ibrahim, seems like a nice guy - and doesnt speak a lick of english) to take me to the address. First we go to a wrong place thats residential. Then I call Nastya from the drivers mobile, then give it to him to take directions from her. He promptly keeps it down thinking Im done with the call. Then I get him to call back. He gets the directions, and we are off. I arrive near her shop, get out on foot as the traffic jam is bad - with a hand signal from Ibrahim telling me where it is. I get there. I open the shop door. Its a small one room shop selling Italian etc clothes at western type prices. Nastya is the cashier (the only person there). I look at her as she is sitting at her desk. We both say Hi. She seems reserved. Not just polite which is dismissive, but reserved. Its difficult to explain the distinction in words - maybe some other people wont even notice one. She asks me to sit down in an empty chair behind her. I do so. She is wearing a mildly revealing dress as Ukrainian women are want to do. We make a little small talk. Then some more. On impulse I get up reach out and kiss her once on each cheek. She makes a feminine sound of mild surprise nad delight. This is a girl I could fall for. During small talk she says she still has a bad headache, but has to work for the next 7 days because she was in the hospital. I ask what about me coming over all the way from Canada? I say I originally planned 9 days, but now we are down to just 4 to get to know each other and make a decision. It is something I will repeat quite a few times. A few customers come in, we stop talking. They leave, we start. She says her work timing is 10 to 9, but if business is slow she gets off at 7PM. Nastya calls her friend - Jane, who also has someone visiting her from Florida. When her friend gets here, I recognize her, saw her on the website. I say Hi, but am a little nervous of talking to another girl who speaks just a little english. I talk to her boyfriend. Just some banter of how the US has lower taxes, he counters with, "yeah but yours goes further" and so on. Seems like a friendly guy, bit of an airhead (this is only technically an insult - because 90% of the people I meet seem like airheads to me). I am not a people person, nor see a need to be just to conform. It leads to having less friends, but who needs superficial friends? But I digress... Nastya and her friend go to the backroom - probably the toilet. The age old women go to the ladies room in packs. They come out 30 secs later. Jane and her boyfriend are about to leave and offer for me to accompany them to the Botanical Gardens. I decline respectfully. Id rather stay with Nastya, even though she is working. They leave. A while later I leave telling Nastya I will call her later in the day. Its about 1:00PM roundabouts. I walk back to the Hotel. Yalta is a city built on a hill, so all the roads from the Promenade (beach/pier etc) are up. In the heat it is a killer if you arent used to it. I have to stop and rest many times. I bathe. Eat. Sleep a little. I call her about 6:45 and ask if I can come down. She says my name then pauses searching for the right word. Says no and thinks of the reason. In the end I help her complete her sentences. She is very tired and with a headache - so would like to go home and sleep. Evilbaga Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/1/2008 9:40:44 PM   Continued) August 26th. I end up in her shop again. We have a more serious conversation this time. She says she is not thinking about moving to Canada and wants to stay In Yalta. It is true she doesnt have a boyfriend, but she has a few boy-friends. She also loves her parents very much and would like to be near them. Also she says her country's political situation (in stammering english words) is better so things will get better. I try to tell her a bit about Canada, even how it is much richer for 'poor' jobs. I ask her if she wasnt interested, why did she write me that she was? After a little figuring out together - she tells me she left the agency about 3 weeks to a month ago. I had written to her, long and sometimes a little emotional letters at the agency before coming. And she replied there that she was very excited about it. Obviously the agency was impersonating her to keep my money spigot flowing. A little clarification would be in order. I met her on RussianLovematch.com (RLM)- an agency renowned for being a scam. After I learned of the $1000 minimum fee, I looked around at other cheaper places. Though to be honest, in the end (to make a VERY long story short) I was willing to pay up because I liked Nastya and she didnt seem like a scam. Fortunately I found her on Lov.ru (also known as mamba.ru I think). I wrote to her on lov.ru saying I was coming and got in touch with her just 4 days before my flight because for the longest time she didnt check her mail there. Figures now that she didnt get the hints I was throwing at her on RLM.com as she wasnt really there. In the end an interpreter in Toronto I had hired to translate my letters on lov.ru got a friend in Kiev to SMS her and that did the trick. But I saved the more romantic mushy stuff for RLM, thinking they would translate that faithfully at least - not knowing I was talking to an imposter there at that that time. I only gave factual information on lov.ru cause I had an interpreter helping me and I felt a bit shy about it I suppose, plus I didnt see why RLM would mistranslate simple letters. So that explained it then. When I asked her why didnt she tell me she wasnt interested in going to Canada, her answer was I had just told her I was coming (on lov.ru), not asked her if she wanted me to come. I didnt connect the dots at the time and felt used. She also told me that she left the agency because they were telling her to talk to men even when she had no interest in them. Also she didnt like most of the men on that site now. I had to explain what her imposter had agreed to on RLM. That after we spent a few days togther, we would get married just so I could bring her to Canada - and take it one step at a time from there. If it didnt work out, she was always free to leave and go back - or maybe even stay till she got a permanent residence if we would stick it out for 3 years (maybe). Basically - take the first step, and then cross each bridge when we come to it. She shook her head vigorously at this. She does not want to get married or go to Canada. We talk some more. I ask her to think about it. Really think about it tonight, not just say she will. And Ill call her tomorrow. Then I say Dasvedanya in Russian as I leave, about half sure I will never meet her again. August 27th. I call her. Dont remember when. This is all from memory you know. She asks me to come down. When Im there, she says she thought about it and she thinks we should talk on the internet some more and maybe in a few months meet again. This is followed immediately by some customers coming into the shop, looking a lot of the clothes over. After they leave, there is silence. I dont know what to say. She gets up and starts putting the clothes back in their proper place and arranging the coat hangers. After she does the first two rows and is in the row closest to me she says "So what do you think Omar?" I still dont know what to say, or think or feel. I dont remember what I say, but some of it was I cannot come back again (this is true, financially speaking). Then some more talk - serious but I dont remember it exactly - kinda like Shell Shock. Then a lady in her 40s/50s comes in, they talk a little and Nastya says the word "Americanskii or Americanyet" and then the lady goes to the backroom. Nastya turns to me and says "That is my director, she says I have to be here alone, while I work. You have to go. I ask when I should call. She says call me at 5:00PM. I call at 5:00PM. No response. I call again at 6:00, still she doesnt pick up. I dress up and go to the shop. I approach cautiously, to see if the director is there or not. There is a customer/customers in the shop. Nastya sees me and opens the door. Her eye liner has fallen a bit. Shes sick or has been crying or is tired. Pure Speculation - I dont know one way or the other and have no strong gut instinct about it. I ask why she didnt pick up. She says it was busy. I tell her to call me, I wont call, just to call me after work when she is free. Then I leave. That night, no call. Later on, when the stress of it all builds up, I cry a little. Not sure about what - her not liking me, me screwing up like this, or the loss of a dream that doesnt become reality. I give up and resolve not to call or see her again. I feel better than I have in days. August 28th The day before I had asked the reception if they had a single room free again. They said no for that day (27th) but yes for today. So I go down to switch keys and pay the bill. Which I have been doing on a daily basis rather than in a lump Sum. As Im down there waiting in line as another guest is talking about something. The receptionist picks up the phone, talks, keeps it down and turns to me and tells me to call Nastya. I pay my bill and make my way back to my room. I really dont know what Evilbaga Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/1/2008 9:42:16 PM   (Continued) August 28th The day before I had asked the reception if they had a single room free again. They said no for that day (27th) but yes for today. So I go down to switch keys and pay the bill. Which I have been doing on a daily basis rather than in a lump Sum. As Im down there waiting in line as another guest is talking about something. The receptionist picks up the phone, talks, keeps it down and turns to me and tells me to call Nastya. I pay my bill and make my way back to my room. I really dont know what to think. But I call her anyway. She invites me to come down to her shop to talk for a few minutes.She asks why I didnt call her yesterday. I reply that I told her to call me. She says her phone was out of money, and even now she had to go refill it. I dress up and go down an hour later. I sit down. Then she tells me, she spoke to her director for a free day off again. Her director said no again. I roll my eyes to the sky. Then she says she later told her director she was quitting and that this was her last day in the shop so she would be free to be with me tomorrow. I dont say anything for a little while. Then say I wasnt going to call her again, but this was unexpected then some other stuff I dont remember. Then she asks me if I am happy about it. I say very happy. Then we part ways as I shouldnt be in the shop. I say I might drop by again around 5:00 or so for a few minutes. I make my way to the Hotel Oreanda - the Business Centre has Internet access for 20 grvnyas per hour. I print out a color picture of Nastya that she sent me months ago of her and her cat. The rep is a young attractive lady who gives me a flash card then takes it to another computer for printing. It takes a whole 10 minutes due to some computer glitch or maybe mistake on the part of the rep but I get the pic printed in the end. I take it outside to some street painters. They had previously quoted me 500 giryvnas, but when the painter sees the picture he asks for 700 because it has a picture of Nastya and her cat. After a lot of gesticulating due to the language barrier - I get across "How long?" He says three days. I shake my head and say I am leaving tomorrow then walk away. About 30 seconds later - I hear someone call "Mister!" I turn around. Its the painter. He motions for me to let him see the printed pic again. He says how about two days? I say "Nyet, tomorrow I go Simferopol Airport to Canada" using a russian phrase book to indicate tomorrow. He has a pained expression. Obviously it would be some work to get it done by then. Then we talk some more and decide on 7:00 PM tomorrow evening. (was fun gesticulating about the sun going down and coming up to differentiate tomorrow 7 AM from 7 PM). Evilbaga Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/1/2008 9:42:52 PM   (Continued) August 29th At last! A day together! Nastya calls me at 9:30 saying to meet her at the bus station at 11:00AM under the big clock. We are going to _______. I dont remember what she said nor understand it at the time. I had somewhat memorized the surrounding city names before coming - maybe I missed that one, or mispronounced it in my head. Nastya sounds disappointed and repeats herself. I think she planned or envisioned her saying that in her head and me replying with "Wow!" or "Cool!" Im such a klutz =/ Anyway, I take the Krimsky Taxi to the Station and arrive around 10:40. I wait and 20-25 mins later Nastya comes and we go to a bus. She has her hair done up in a complex braided fashion, and is wearing an attractive miniskirt/top. It seems the bus to that destination is full, so instead of waiting she changes the plan and we go to Alushka (or was it Alupka?). She asks if I want something to drink. I as for a water, she gets herself a coke. I pay for the ride and off we go. We chat a bit on the ride. She points out "Bear Mountain" to me. Its an island mountain a few hundred meters from the road/coast. Because of its elongated round shape - it looks like a sleeping bear. My natural reticence and introversion is alleviated whenever I steal a glance at her, or look at her for a while. We arrive in Alushka. Cross the road and look for another bus to take us a bit deeper in the city. To cross the road we go through an underroad passage with shops hocking many things, including flowers. I decide against getting her one. Its too mushy, and whos going to carry it around all day? We get on the other bus. The ticket master or whatever you call him is barechested and periodically shouting the bus destination. Deliciously third world. He keeps looking at me, only turning away when I look directly at him and sraight back when I stop. Fascinated by my brown skin I suppose. In my whole stay I saw one Black guy in Yalta and no brown people. Saw one Japanese family on the Promenade, and 2 more japs in the hotel. So not many 'minorities' at all. I pay, we get on and go deeper into the city. Im walking with an angel :) We make small talk. I ask her if she ate anything. "A cup of tea, and you?" she replies. Me? Nothing. We decide to stop for lunch soon. We are walking on a normal pathway. She says she loves the smell of the trees. I can smell it only a little. Nice fragrance I suppose so I agree with her. We talk some more. The topic of her mobile comes up. She dropped it when she was semi-delirious with fever and it broke. The nurse was shocked! She is quite remorseful about it. Nastya then says shes had it for 2 years. A nice pink mobile, and shes never had a temptation to change it for another one. All her friends, including Jane, loved it. Also she had 300 pictures on it of her, her friends and family which she didnt store anywhere else. I ask her if her birthday is sept 22. She replies yes. Then says birthdays are sad for her because she doesnt have that many friends - except from the past in her school and family. Me, being a loner, tell her I dont have many friends, but it doesnt bother me much. I end up using a lot of big words that she doesnt understand. Its easy to forget shes a beginner in english because shes got the grammar down pat. ( I had paid RLM 400 US bucks to get her english lessons about 4 months ago). We stop to eat. She orders a salad, I order a meal. This is the first time we are really relaxed and sitting down and talking whilst looking at each other. Its fun. We make a lot of small talk. The weather is very pleasant in the shade and theres a cool breeze blowing. She doesnt finish her salad. I finish my meal and take a little of her salad as well. Evilbaga Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/1/2008 9:43:20 PM   (Concluded) After a while we get up to go. I ask her the plans for the rest of the day. She says walk on the beach. I say we have to be back in Yalta at 7:00PM for a surprise. She says no. She must go at 6:00 because her cousin sister is visiting, just called her that morning and she hardly ever has a chance to visit. I insist. She says, she doesnt like surprises, for me to just tell her what it is. I stick to my guns. In the end we compromise to she will meet me with her sister for dinner around 7:00. We get to the beach (pier). Its very similar to Yalta, except less crowds and less cars. We walk, talk, and I find it a little hot but say nothing.We stop at a street vendor selling ...er...Bikini bottoms, and she ends up choosing two of them with me making a few suggestions after her asking (she doesnt follow them anyway). I think it was 40 gyrvinas. I pay up, she thanks me and we walk on. I say someday she must wear them for me. Shes mildly offended and replies 'Someday...' We end up going bowling. She trashes me at it. Though she throws a few gutter balls because Im soo far behind her score. We play 3 games and take a few photos. 80 gyrvinas. She keeps the score chart. We stop buy some stores, I looks at some necklaces at a few shops. Then we get one. 70 gryvinas. She gets some cookies for her cousin which she pays for. We walk some more and then go to the buses. Im going to skip a bit here, as its already sooooooo long. We get back to Yalta and I should call her at 5:00 to meet. We end up meeting at 6:10 outside her ex-employer. Her cousin isnt with her, gone off to do something with a locker. We take a short walk down to the Relax Lounge to have dinner. We both order salads and decide to split a main dish as we are both still full from lunch. As we wait I say after eating we will go down to the Hotel Oreanda to use the Internet. She says she cant as she will leave at 7:10 to meet her sister. How about Massandra Beach instead? It is 6:40 now. I ask her what about her surprise? And then tell her to wait - Ill go and get it. Should only take 20 minutes. I run out - ask a cab driver to take me from McDonalds to Hotel Oreanda - 50 Gyrvinas! What a rip-off! I decide to walk/run there and take a taxi back. Good thing too, because when I get there at 6:55 the artist wants another 5 minutes. Frankly I am a wee bit disappointed at his rendition, but its still high quality and he did only have a day. He then has to fish around for a holder from the other artists and I pay an extra 30 UAH for that. Thena taxi back. Asked 70 UAH! It was a minivan though. Got it down to 45 UAH. I get back at 7:15. Nastya has finished her salad and is waiting to wat her meal. I jog in and say sorry for taking so long. Then I say, as I cannot be here for her birthday on Sept 22 I got her present now, and I hand her the closed cylinder with the painting. She opens it, takes the painting out and unrolls it. She gives a gasp of surprise and her eyes go wide. I get the coolest feeling in the world :) She is in a mild state of shock. Shes thanks me profusely and has an unerasable smile. We hug, and I get a kiss on the cheek, and another hug. She says she takes back what she said about her birthday. I say she now has one picture of herself and her cat left. I start to eat my salad. When Im done she says she cant eat anymore of her main meal and must dash back to Massandra as her sister is waiting at the door for the key ( she also got a call from her while I was eating). Earlier she had asked for 450 Gyrvinas for her rent as she quit her job. When I was picking up the painting I got some cash from the ATM. I give her 1400 Gryvnas. Equavalent to her salary for a month plus 100 dollars to get a internet card for her PC. I hope she understood, as I, in my adrenalized state said PC, not computer. Earlier on she told me to call her when I get to Canada, before she rturns her phone back to Jane. We hug again and she says with much more enthusiam that she will come in March on a cruise to Canada. She leaves. I finish my meal. Pay 100 UAH and go back to my hotel room. That concludes Part B. I actually cut out a lot of anecdotes. Like the time when I decided to go down the the promenade at 3:30 at night for the first time. Maybe to see the sights, or even get a hooker. Not having any notion of how to get there, except to keep going down. Telling myself I was crazy while I tied my shoelaces. This was during one of the times when I thought all had failed with Nastya. Or the Statue of Lenin opposite the McDonalds. Or the fair prices at McDonalds and me eating and ordering there. And more and more. I could make this post 50% bigger, but I think Ive written enough. Some of the timings and dates would be off, its all from memory. Some important details arent listed. Didnt think of the them at the time of writing and cant be arsed to go back and read the whole thing. Long as it took me to write. This was an adventure of a lifetime for me. And Ill write a quick PART C soon of me coming back, some observations, general facts and a summary. Land of oz Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/1/2008 11:41:30 PM   Sorry to hear of your experience. She definitely sounds like a shopper. And does not sound like you were real important to her. Even if she was sick in the beginning she did not seem to make much of an effort to spend time with you. If you were important enough for her to quit her job to see you on your last day then you should have been important enough not to snub you with her sister that evening. Based on having you buy things for her and her latter actions I would guess her first excuses were just little white lies. She was playing a game and you paid for it. beemer18 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/2/2008 12:34:10 AM   Thanks for telling about your experiences, really interesting to read what you did and how I would have handled the situations. To be honest, I felt sorry for you, you have a big heart, yet you couldn't or wouldn't understand what was happening. There was no sickness, no hospital, only girl didn't want to meet you. You forced your way by going to her shop and just sitting there. Girl probably has trouble saying what is really on her mind. And no, I doubt she quit her job to be with you 1 day. Isn't it amazing how one day girl is in hospital and next day she is at work, working her 11 hour shift. Your girl can do no wrong in your eyes, I can understand how addicting these beautiful young girls can be. Your head was not working properly, your heart was in complete control. I would guess you spent over $600usd on your only day with your girl....and for what...a smile and couple hugs and kiss on cheek. Remember you were on a budget. I doubt very much she will be in Canada anytime soon, I do hope I am wrong but after reading your story, it sounds so much like other ones I've read in the past. I always make sure I am not in position to be at anyone's mercy, it did happen on my first trip for a couple days, so I move on to another girl if I feel things are not progressing. I am not into going into any agencies looking for girls while I am there. I am sure this trip will be a good learning experience for you, seems like not much went right. I do know that these trips never go as planned, improvision is the key. Evilbaga Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/2/2008 2:18:52 AM   Thanks for your kind replies guys. Yes, she may well be a shopper/dater. I am at the point of seeing that possibility now. I do hope I am wrong however. May well be, as her friend was meeting someone too. Also she may well have been at the hospital, she had medication on her at the shop. Then again - all that could prove is experience on her part. Time will tell I guess. I may post here on progress/lack thereof even after my concluding Yalta post. ben2006 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/2/2008 3:18:43 AM   I agree with Beemer. She was not sick nor is she going to Canada. In her mind shes just getting something for free, ie shes getting a few months Salary from you just for a few hours of talking with you (beats standing in a shop 8 hours a day, 6 days a week). Don't feel hard done by, I think this is a good lesson for you, you need to change your life a bit. You hoped you'd meet this girl and she'd fall in love with you and you'd be happy but someone else can't make you happy you have to do this yourself. Next time if you get this is position don't sit around by yourself, get out and do something, you don't need wait on a women. If you get out and do your own thing you will attract good women. "Yes, she may well be a shopper/dater. I am at the point of seeing that possibility now. I do hope I am wrong however." Dude, wake up! jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/2/2008 4:39:18 AM   Evilbaga: You've fallen to hard and too fast for this woman. And you are now the victim of the cultural differences between Ukraine and the west. She has little money and little ethics (by western standards anyway) and has no particular qualms about lying to you and using you for economic gain. Of course she was lying to you regarding quiting her job, being in hospital, mvoing to Canada, perhaps even about visiting her sister. Her intent may not have been malicious "Every culture has a different attitude and explanation for a fib, or "white lie", which in Russian is refered to as "vranyo". One uses it to be polite, nice, and in order not to offend another person or say anything that would cause problems. Russians do not want to embarrass or disappoint guests. Visitors should be especially aware of this Russian trait." (That's a quote from a book called The Russian Way). Sadly, she wasn't into you as much as you were into her. You fell in love based on letter writing and that is always dangerous. You sound like a great, caring, devoted guy. Unfortunanely you wear your heart on your sleave. You're ready to do anything to win this girls affection so you used cash. Not a good move. And not one that will ultimately get you where you want to be. YOU are a prime canddidate for a ROMANCE SOCIAL where you can literally meet HUNDREDS of girls and not fall in love with them until you actually KNOW them (not based on a picture and some written lines). Some girl is going to be lucky to get involved with you - but she has to return your affection - and this one won't do that the way you are going about it. Evilbaga Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/2/2008 6:03:27 AM   Thanks jetmba. I need kind words about now. :) Evilbaga Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/2/2008 6:05:14 AM   ...and a kick in the arse as well I guess. =/ aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/2/2008 7:05:25 AM   I am sorry to hear about your disappointing experience Evilbaga, what a waste of a trip with a girl that was mucking around, not being serious, being what I call real a wishy washy, don't know where its at experience..this is the kind of thing I talk about in this forum, the all too common, waste of a trip, waste of a mans time and money! This and variations of these negative experiences is what generally happens when you do a personal trip and for an Australian to arrange a trip to the FSU to visit one of these "internet wonders?", its a real pain in the ass and very expensive exercise. I bust my boiler working with my toolbox for my wage here and not to waste thousands of dollars on internet spurred, b.s trips to meet foreign women...I was married to one for 12 years ( not an FSU variety ) but one I imported here on a fiance visa and it eventually went to one messy shit of a divorce...never again with a foreign girl, too many misunderstandings/communication and cultural barriers and thinking motivated by the buck and how much they can screw out of the man in a divorce and there brains are wired differently I think! Here I am telling you people here what goes wrong and what a waste it is and Evilbaga has given us an interesting insight into a Ukraine woman that is not serious and a time waster! Very interesting story...if it was me, I think I would not have persevered as long as you did, evilbaga with the girl,I would have lost patience and packed up and said f... it and gone home early, I think, very pissed off by the way!..... Maybe some girls are good in Ukraine but they will be very hard to find on the internet and you will never be able to tell if they are serious until you visit them..you can't really prescreen them to see if they are wishy washy time wasters, shoppers etc. Jetmba talks about the Russian/Ukraine lies, the polite lie..."I will put up with you to a point but really I don't want to be with you and any excuse not to be with you will do" but they don't say it like that, just act it out in actions! I call it a 'paraphrase" type attitude, a paraphase being for example a person who makes out to be your friend says "I will have to invite you to dinner one day" but only says it out of politeness with no real intention of inviting you to dinner and never does invite you to dinner!...what a people...I don't say something to a person with no intention of doing it, if I don't want to do it and won't say to them in the first place I will do it, thats just mucking around and being a b.s artist...oh for those forum members such as Nasfan, in my distant past when I wrote to a few of these girls, I made no promises I would come and visit them and it all came down to "we see will where this communication goes in the future and you are free to do what you want and to feel no obligation or anything to me"..after all they were only letters and some phone calls! ( some were scammers and con artists/joker girls themselves and thats why I whinged in this forum, some of them )..in my experience there was only 2 girls I wrote to from Ukraine who were a "real persons" I recall out of the 2 dozen or more I wrote it too ( from 2004 to 2007 ) and they admitted to me they thought Australia was too far away and did not want to move here! ( they were not further pursued and broken off, I knew it would not work if they felt that way, really I think they did not realise or know that Australia was a 16,000 kilometre plane ride away...I am sure some of these girls think the world is still flat and don't really know anything outside of there countries ) ben2006 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/2/2008 9:14:34 AM   It doesn't pay to be a nice guy with a good heart sometimes. In fact can be seen as a weakness. You need to define want you want and draw a line in the sand, walk away if you have to at least then you'll get respect. GeminiDreams Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/2/2008 3:30:13 PM   I would not have handed 1400 UAH until after getting shagged all night. You spent all that money for travel and hotels you should get something. Dont hand over cash or presents without the quid pro quo! At least come away with something from the visit except aggravation. colin Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/2/2008 4:02:13 PM   Seems to me alot of the girls are happy with their lives in the Ukraine, the salary is bad and maybe all the men arnt perfect marriage material but they are happy to stay there. Its all the life they have known they have friends family and large social networks.If they have parents at home who are elderly and they are the only child its even harder for them to move. I would have given up on that girl after day one the way you will just come off to her is desperate she may not have been a shopper at the start but can easily turn into one and you arnt in control she is playing all the cards now. I dont think she was a scammer at the start ,maybe it all came to reality when you arrived there and suddenly its more than just a fairy tale in the internet.(but as other guys here have stated Beemer and Jet etc you should have a back up plan even if a social was lined up it would have been better than situation you are in now) Its hard but you have to play the game and get her to like you for yourself and deceide that she wants to be with you and not your cash. I remember someone writing here I dont know who maybe Jet or Martin and they said the girl would be happy to marry you and her to stay in the Ukraine with you supporting her or paying her way in college I think this is very true. I will stick a snippet that my wife once wrote to me Ive been very lucky she is always a hundred percent honest with me and I encourage her to speak her mind to me I will say it has been hard. 'Though I shall not hide from you that my departure from my home is a complex psychological process, in fact I leave here in Ukraine all that among what I lived and with whom I communicated. I am ready to this important step in my life and I know that you and your family will meet me well and will help me to go through this important process in my life' My reply was you are my wife and I love you, take your time and know I love you and wait for you I think of you constantly and know how brave you are coming here to me and giving up all you have known. her next reply 'I know that you wait for me to be together and I wait for it too.Thanks for your last letter. It was very kind and beautiful. It was very pleasant and hearty from your thoughts. It is the surety of our good relations in the future of our family life. I am glad, that we do each other happy even by our thoughts. I constantly think of the forthcoming moving. It will be complicate for me but I know that you will support me. I know that you wait for me to be together and I wait for it too. But sometimes circumstances develop not as we want. Therefore the person should be able to exhibit the solidity of the character and to be patient. I admire that you are such person who has greate will power and able to be patient. I am happy that you are my husband.' Its hard and not a easy road marrying someone from the Ukraine but there is gems there to be had. BUT YOU GOTTA PLAY THE GAME! Adman Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/2/2008 9:12:49 PM   Evilbaga, thanks for relating your story. Whether it is good or bad, reading about peoples experiences all helps to gain an insight in the minds of these women. I think travelling to the other side of the world for romance always has its risks and most guys strike out at some stage. Its all a learning curve. I was just scammed by a travel agent in Thailand: didnt see that coming. On the good points about your girl, she was upfront on the first day you met her, telling you that she did not want to go to Canada with you. Im just wondering what you would do if she writes to you and wants you to bring her to Canada? You write your story as if you had bad luck. Are there things you will do different next time? devilmaycare Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/3/2008 8:39:40 AM   Travelling with high hopes to meet a girl who turns out to be indifferent (or worse) is very upsetting, but I the probability is high in this game. Its happened to me twice anyway. Doesnt sound like the girl was deliberately out to scam you (unlike the ones I met), at least not to start with so you have noone but a faceless agency drone to be angry at which I guess makes it even worse. aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/4/2008 5:11:12 AM   This story serves as a wake up call...you can't buy a Ukrainian womans love, don't expect her to feel obligated in anyway to you or expect to meet or continue to meet you just because you spent thousands of dollars to go over there for a visit...this means nothing to them, they think the airfare and other costs to travel to Ukraine is like pocket change to Western men, they got no idea that the average western working man, these travel costs make take up to 12 months of saving or represent at least 3 or more months salary/wages..its no big deal to a Ukr girl..they don't care and why should they..you are a stranger..in reality the Ukrainian/Russian psyche, they care little or not for anything outside of family..wake up..its an old story..most trips end in failure and its not always the guys fault, the girls don't give a shit, your a curio to them, a curiosity article at best..you can't buy them, life is good in old Ukraine, few will be willing to leave for a new life with a foreign guy..most agencies sell marketing hype to sell a product and its false or way out of date and irrelevant. 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