I keep reading all the posts about such bad girls in Ukraine and other countries. I also read about how different things were 10 years ago. Why did it all change? Is it because of all the jerks running away from paying tabs? The guys who have grown up kids in the West and just want to screw young girls? It is beginning to sound more and more that it is the fault of the Western Man! Or is it the agencies that set unrealistic expectations to lure the men into going there so they can make money? Any help on figuring this out would be greatly appreciated.
All of the above Gib
We may not like to hear it, but it is the general thought in the FSU that western men are an easy mark and that it is only fair and proper to fleece as much money as possible from them.
Western men so often comfirm this.
I hate to break the news but ten years ago the girls WERE more deperate. Just a few years earlier than that (ten years ago) they had their first glimpse of a market economy and all the luxuries that they had never had before.
They did desire and respect western men because they saw these men as a reasonable ticket out - to a better life.
Today many in Ukraine (especially) see themselves as really European. And they've had a fair share of funny old men coming and hitting on any young girl there is. The girls know that they are attractive and they know they have the right to expect something special.
Ukranians generally aren't destitute anymore. Some are. But not as many.
Today in order to attract one you actually need a little CLASS. ANd some guys here (like the weasle that ran from the bathroom) will never have that.
Ukraine women, American women, and so on and so on are THE SAME ...every woman is different but essentially no matter where they are they are the SAME. If they can go to a better life they will. Right now they have all the comforts they need in Ukraine and now its back to ground zero, you might actually have to use your man skills in picking up a girl the normal way. Oh I know how that must suck for most of you.
Basatard Kid makes a good point. I would modify it slightly. The BEST you can hope for as a westerner in Ukraine is the chance to MEET a woman who might be "out of your league" in your own country. In Ukraine (or the FSU) under the right conditions they MIGHT talk with you - and not just automatically blow you off (maybe its the novelty you have as a foreigner?).
After that you are on your own.
If you are a WEASEL or a cheapskate, or a mamma's boy, or have any one of a million huge persoanlity flaws that caused women in the west to reject you - then chances are the women of Ukraine (or the FSU) will too.
I am still amused at guys young and old, who think that the FSU is crawling with hot sexy women, (who are of course also faithful, obedient maternal types) who will jump for ANY western guy who happens to grace them by coming to their land. These guys include nooga (who though being young he would be irresistable) 65 and 70 year old fat guy (who think 18 year old supermodels will fall all over them) and the like.
I feel a little bad for a few guys really nice guys I have met - who have been undeservedly pummeled by American feminazi and who spent their life saving going to what they perceived as the "promised land" of Ukraine to find a heavenly sent woman. They were nice guys at heart and they set their sites on very young, very pretty girls. But unfortunately they were also lacked whatever it was that women everywhere find apealing and they were dismal failures at their attempts in Ukraine. Its sad - but its the way of the world.
As Bastard Kid says above you have to use your "man skills"?
"Ukraine women, American women, and so on and so on are THE SAME ...every woman is different but essentially no matter where they are they are the SAME. If they can go to a better life they will. Right now they have all the comforts they need in Ukraine and now its back to ground zero, you might actually have to use your man skills in picking up a girl the normal way. Oh I know how that must suck for most of you."
No this just isnt true. OK Ukraine women are not "desperate" like maybe they were 10 years ago, but the basic economic conditions are very different from the west at least in the middle tier of the economy. For the top 1% of the richest guys and best looking women life is much the same in the UA as it is in the west, but for the rest things are very different.
In the west a top-10% girl will usually bag herself a "professional" man who can provide her with a nice house, car and holidays abroad, or get a good job and provide those things for herself. However in UA (and indeed all FSU countries) this tier of middle class financially secure professionals simple doesn't exist, so unless a girl is in the top 1% and lands a rich business owner she's shit out of luck when it comes to finding a man who can provide her with anything approaching a comfortable life. Of course the vast majority of even these top-10%-ers dont want to move overseas but there's still quite a few who do and those are the ones that we are basically courting.
So why bother go to the Ukraine anymore? They have the best prostitutes except they are getting to be pricy nowadays! I personally lost interest after my last trip this year. I kept hearing stories about this girl who went to Paris with her Italian boyfriend and that girl in Miami who has a guy that drives a Maserati and so on... There are so many nice girls all over the world, all you have to do is look around you.
maybe Gib Doe, but there's a big but,, isn't it nice to travel to a land where women just are not so fat:)) sure most things are the same but hell its just so nice NOT to be surrounded by big ass sweet hearts who think they are gods gift,, isn't it much nicer been surrounded by nicely shaped females who think they are gods gift:)
bugger the desperate idea, it just nice to have people who have pride in how they look..
even it its a bit over the top:)
You have to understand that by nature Ukraine is a very materialistic society. It got that way because so many people had to do without for so long. Societies tend to swing like pendulums from one extreme to the other. Its a cultural thing now to show conspicuous consumption for social prestige.
At one time the hotest girls (and in Ukraine they come pretty HOT) WERE interested in meeting practically any westen man. They saw western men as a ticket out. And many were anxious to escape to the world that they had seen in movies, etc. where living conditions were a lot nicer. Today the hotest Ukranian women are well aware of their beauty and the way the world values that beauty. And those who want to leave are not interested in leaving for just anybody.
The youngest hotest girls want a rich, proportionately aged man that they can brag about. They want to join what we in the west used to call the "jet set" galavanting all over the world and experiencing all sorts of new things.
BUT the smaller cities and more out-of-the-way places still contain a lot of beautiful women (its in their genes) who have a more conservative view. They are still interested in a western man just for being a western man. Even in Kyiv itself you will find plenty of women from more remote areas who would LOVE to get out of Ukraine - with a western guy. They may not be the super-models that many men dream of. But they are still gorgeous.
My Ukranain lady has a sister. She is a beautiful tall blonde in her early twenties who speaks only a smattering of English. By profession she is a music teacher (piano mostly) living and working in Kyiv. When last there we visited her and she was living in a three room apartment ownded by an elderly lady with SEVEN OTHER young people. She shared a bedrrom with another young woman. You can imagine the competition to use the bathroom and the kitchen. Yet even at that she was paying most of her salary to live in that apartment. Would she like to leave Ukraine (for a good guy of course)? You bet she would.
My point is that Ukraine still has many beautiful ladies who are available and would love to find a great guy and move to his country. You just have to know where to look for them. They AREN'T Miss Hot. But they are plenty hot.
I'm convinced that any guy visiting Ukraine who CAN'T find a wonderful girl must be looking in the wrong place - or must have blinders on for anything but a super model OR they are attracted to the same type of illegitimate "pro-daters" that make up most scam claims. Maybe they just want the party girls and then are suprised that the party girls are simply THAT (PARTY GIRLS!).
Ukraine is still a great place to find an incredible woman.
Ha Jet your girls sister sounds very like the way my wife lived her mother is a music teacher/lecturer
the extra rooms in the house are rented out to other girls/ladies studying music as well.My wife plays violin and the piano.
They really are looking for a man but I dont know if he has to be westerner just someone with good prospects and who can look after them (dosnt have to be rich but comfortable) as said by previous people they would be far happier to be married and stay in the Ukraine. The Ukraine is quite a nice place and leaving friends and family is very hard for them. My wifes friends ask me please dont bring her away we will miss her too much why dont you come and live here? My answer is and do what? to which they have no reply. Yes it is cheaper to live there but because salaries are so low most of the money is spent on food and after that there isnt much left. Imagine it comes to the weekend and you wish to maybe go meet friends you look in your wallet/purse and count out the smallest coins that you have left to even see if you have enough for bus fare. I would be happy to move there in the morning and would have no problem leaving friends and family. My brother says he felt the same way (he now lives in Hungary with his Hungarian partner) he is happy to live there and dosnt mind leaving everyone. I agreed when he said to me Capitalism leads to Indvidualism. Us in the west are much more individualistic. I personally like the way they live and I far prefer her to any lady I have ever dated before she is extremely strong willed and because she lived alone with her mother who worked alot she had no one to talk to and so kept everything locked up only slowly and after time has she begun to open to me. I said jokingly so did you ever think youd be married to a Irish guy? And she laughed and said no I didnt think Id ever marry everyone said im too strong willed.
Guys, just because a girl is poor doesn't mean she will go for a foreign guy! On the contrary if she has any pride she will try to better herself on her own. I agree with Kiwi, just go there for the fun and the company of beautiful girls with small tight asses.
"Guys, just because a girl is poor doesn't mean she will go for a foreign guy! "
Its not a matter of simple "will she", the woman I refer to above would JUMP at the opportunity. She has practically begged me to set her up with any friend of mine who might be available. Obviously dating her sister, I'M not available - but she would move to America in a heartbeat. And she has told me that many times.
Opening myself to criticism by more uncouth guys who happen to have invaded this forum (won't name them - but the are Dung and danny) I'll repeat something I mentioned a while back. The girl I mention above happens to be the same sister who was quite interested in me setting her up with my 31 year old SON! Unfortunately he already has a girlfriend he is living with.
Interesting arrangment it might be especially if we (two couples) married. Father and son married to two sisters. That would make for some interesting things.
Like my SON would also be my brother-in-law (sort of).
My wife would be my son's step-mother and his sister-in-law.
If I had another child - say a son - that son would also be my others son's brother and his nephew.
I like the Ukraine. I managed to find nice young and attractive wife. I dont give a rats arse about spoiling things for anyone else. I did what was right for me as will any other guy. There is no daters union rules to follow here, its every man for himself.
There are plenty of genuine women still available and you are still more likely to find someone more attractive and younger than in your home market. Its not what many guys fantasise though. You cant just turn up expecting a two week holiday will end up with a long term relationship.
It takes time, money and effort. You can easily pull a fling and spend a bit of dough for the opportunity of dating a model quality lady but getting the serious wife material is a lot more effort and its easy to get distracted by the first.
Quote: “How many degrees did the people you had lunch with today have?” More than you would have enough fingers and toes to count. But that’s no surprise, fingers and toes came with more evolved species.