I want to share my experience in Ukraine, not to whine about it (I should have found this website before) but to share the information that I was given by someone who lives in Nikolaev.
My hope is to open the eyes of men who want to go in Ukraine, or those who struggle to rationalize 'their' woman not being what they hoped for, or behaving as she implied she would when they come to visit her.
I spent two weeks in Ukraine recently, mostly Nikolaev and Odessa, and it is always the same pattern.
The girl that had invited me never showed up ... her mom was sick, she was busy, she tried to find my apartment but never found it bla bla
It was like writing to a ghost, a very in love ghost, that also not forgets to ask for flowers, borrow money for 'her university or she will be thrown out' ... but does never find one hour in one whole week to see you ...
My point is this : she let me do all the traveling from Europe for nothing ... she let me spent the travel money shamelessly just to put me in a situation where I would be exposed to the generalized scam that goes around in Ukraine.
I mean, as tourists, we always expect to pay more, but there, it is beyond belief : people are rude, unfriendly, taxi drivers try to charge you 10 times the regular price shamelessly, women let you come and not see you, they want presents, borrow money etc
Now, you could think it was an exception, I had bad luck, but, in the week that I was there, I tried to meet other women from natashaclub.com, at least to see someone and something. I could meet some, but it was unfortunately the same pattern : they say they speak english but they come with their translator (10-20$ per hour), they want to go to the restaurant (and, believe it or not, they even order deserts to bring home ... as I said, they have no shame, no respect), they try to borrom money from you, they come with their sister or a friend so they can also enjoy the dinner, or a drink.
Finally, the hotels and accomodation agencies, big RIP OFF, I mean 50-100$ per night ... I mean those prices are 'ok' in western countries but over there, the cost of living is at least 10 times lower. Some people live in Kiev with only 200 $ per month ... Private landlords have flats that they rent at an incredibly high price, just because we can afford it. And to top if off, they even have you pay in dollars, which translates in an increasingly high price in uah, although apartments are not imported goods. This just shows that they pull every trick to scam tourists, and I have never seen such a thing in all the other countries I have visited.
In the end, and this is my point, I had a conversation with an american who teaches english there, and he told me the whole sad truth. As I said, it is a giant, organized scam : local agencies hire young women (there are ads in local newspapers) to write letters and show their body parts on webcam, so it is their JOB, everything they do, they get paid for, the flowers people have delivered to them are plastic flowers, they take a picture, send it to you, and split the money, all of them have boyfriends or husbands, so they do not care at all about us, we are just milk caws to them.
They are con experts, very well trained, they know all the tricks , all the little ways to play with men's feelings, and keep them hoping ... and paying...
I told him that he should put that on a website, but he said that he could not speak too much about that because the local mafia would get him.
I believe that, it's probably Ukraine's best business after all ...
HE SAID THAT SERIOUS WOMEN DO NOT GO TO THE DATING AGENCIES, AND THAT THEY ALL LAUGH ABOUT THE WOMEN WHO WORK THERE, THEY DESPISE THEM BECAUSE THEY CAUSE SO MUCH TROUBLE AND EVENTUALLY TURN THE GOOD MEN AWAY...
Sure, there are some serious girls, really looking for someone, but it's like the lottery, sometimes someone wins, and that keeps everybody else hoping and playing.
And scammers just take advantage of all the players ...
Don't believe the agencies, Natashaclub.com assured me that 'they have never heard about such things', 'that they will take the necessary steps', 'that they will ask the girl why she did not show up' ... I mean, their answers are so unreal that it is just a sign that they belong to the scam, they actually are the starting point and the ones who make the most money from it.
Avoid Ukraine at all cost !
There may be nice people, but I have been in countries where people are actually much nicer from day one.
So you discovered Marriage agencies are bogus. Ive have never directly used a marriage agency and met my wife on second trip. She is young, beautiful and smart, I am not. Ukraine is fine just avoid Pikas mistakes and you will be fine.
"I told him that he should put that on a website, but he said that he could not speak too much about that because the local mafia would get him." And spies must be everywhere?! And after all he still works here? Or local mafia took his passport and he cannot leave Ukraine?
I am really sorry if all this happen to you. But it is more likely Pka have never been to Urkaine.
Quote: “the little ways to play with men's feelings”
I feel the above needs reconfiguring to read “men have their little thing in which they get feelings with which girls will play”.
Walk into any singles bar in the world, leading with your d**k and you’ll have it handed to you a short time later. Russia, Ukraine and much of the FSU is the best singles bar in the world but there are a couple of things to consider before walking in. It’ll probably cost you 3-5K to get in the door and when you get there you won’t be able to speak the language.
It's funny to read how different people react to my post.
First of all, yes, I was there, and I went there totally positive and not for playing with my 'little thing' but to meet this girl I had a great contact by email and who invited me there. Everything was set to go well, except that the first evening (I arrived late afternoon), she was busy, the next one too, then her mother got sick, the she got sick, then she could not find my apartment (how difficult that must have been ...), then she gives me an appointment but does not show up ... and in the meantime, taxi drivers trying to rip you off, landlords too ... and little by little, I got a negative feeling about this country.
I have been around quite a lot, and it never got to that point, although some friends who went to Zimbabwe told me strange stories too.
LOLL no I do not go to marriage agencies in my country (Belgium), and I do think I wrote about that, I just said agency to mean any agency (dating, marriage etc).
Sorry, english is not my native language, maybe that is the problem.
What I wanted to share is the information that I was given by an american who works there, and talked to many of those women who go to his courses, there is no one better placed to tell how it really works, I met him at the end of my trip, and I can say that all I had experienced, he told me and more (like the plastic flowers).
About the mafia comment, well, that is what he said, there is no way to know since he is not putting that stuff on his website, and honestly, I wouldn't either because we know that, anywhere on the planet where sex is used as a bait, bad guys are never too far away.
Maybe it is just me, and 'bad luck', but again it happened with several women (like bringing an extra desert home) ...
I am sure that some of you have been there multiple times, and found someone good, that was not my point, my point was to share was that guy told me because it was a carbon copy of what I had experienced. At the airport, I met another american who experienced the same thing as me, and he told me other stories told by other people he had met ... always the same pattern.
I understand it's my fault, I received that spam, I clicked on it, ended up on Natashaclub and the rest is history. Now, I know better.
Dunromin, I find your comments offensive because I am a guy that always look at the whole person, inside and outside. I did not go there as a sex tourist. I did find one girl who liked me very much, but I did nothing with her because she was not my type, so stop making up things.
Now, you seem to know well singles bars in all FSU, but of course, I am sure you go to 'SINGLES' bars to discuss literature, with no sex in your mind ... Yeah, I believe that. Me, I just avoid singles bars, just because of that, but you seem an expert.
I hope my post has at least helped a few people to open their eyes.
Because, sometimes it's hard. For instance, the guy I met at the airport, he was telling me even more terrible stories, like having suddenly a man sitting next to the woman he was talking too and looking at him in a non friendly way, I told him what I had found out, but he was still trying to rationalize like 'well, it is awkward that the girl I was with DROVE the taxi from Odessa to Nikolaev' (so picture it, she was driving, talking to the owner of the taxi in front, and he was all alone at the back, and paying (too much) for the ride), or 'I paid 150$ for the taxi, it was not so bad', or 'I heard voices outside my hotel room, I am sure it was her, maybe she likes me after all' ... The mind can play nasty tricks when you don't know what game is really going on.
After all i could sum up that Nikolaev is a bad place for foreigners but it would be absolutly wrong deduction. The matter is not a city or a country. You was a victim because everyone on datting sites is a victime (foreigner or local). This is because by your membership there you say to scammers "i am single and ready to go anywhere you are because i want to see you". That means that you will bring money for jorney, for accomodation, for food, taxi, clubs, pubs, small presents etc.
There is a market in Kyiv where people sell mobiles, mp3-players and other IT-stuff. It is called Radio Rynok. There are shops but at the same time there are a lot of guys standing and trading on a street. And these guys are kind of scammers because every one of them tries to sell you a broken-down phone and buy from you your well-worked phone like a pice of plastic. So if i am there i know that they want to "scam" me. It is similar with datting sites i guess.
I'm surprised and also think it is funny how people here react to your story. Like it is not a true story. Or as you did anything wrong. It is very good you tell and maybe open eyes for some to not go there and get the same experience.
People may have some different experiences - but I guess 90% can feel familiar with your story - even they for some reason never give up.
It is a fact that as you say: " it is beyond belief : people are rude, unfriendly, taxi drivers try to charge you 10 times the regular price shamelessly, women let you come and not see you, they want presents, borrow money etc"
They simply not have any normal descent behavior - people fly half way around the word and they not care a shit.
I agree with you - avoid this country at all cost! Why get a woman in a country you not feel good about and not like their attitudes.
I am Australian. I now base myself in Kiev while not working. I know dont speak or understand Russian very well. I can read a fair bit though, a lot learnt looking through the local dating sites rather than the marriage agency sites. I had written to a fair few ladies especially one in Odessa and even though we stopped corresponding I decided to visit anyway. Actually met with her and after a dinner got I got to help my mum clean the apartment which didnt take long to work out this was Im not interested. I actually also met my one and only marriage agency contact with obligitory translator. It was such a crock I promised myself never again. Sorry I once tried Anastasia when was on my second trip to Kiev when one of the most gorgeous women ever sent me a mail. I wrote great Im here lets meet, $50 later I got sorry I have bad cold. I definately promised myself never again.
I did meet an interesting woman in Kiev so my next break returned there. Ive always used dating sites rather than marriage agencies. If for no other reason Im such a cheapskate guy I just dont like paying for letters and translations. I wasnt there with purpose of finding a wife just someone to keep me company and go travelling. I met this girl off a local dating site and I wasnt particularly hopeful because she was much younger than me. We are married now. I am lucky because it is difficult to find and maintain a loving relationship but I could do it because I had the opportunity to spend the time and use strategies to develop a relationship. I spend 3 months a year in kiev and another month travelling with my wife. Rest of the time Im working. It took 4 years to get to point of marriage. Not many guys have that time to invest.
one mistake pika made was not establishing direct phone contact. you should have logged hours on a phone before meeting a girl in ukraine. you will be able determine her interest if she takes your calls each time. whats that? she doesn't speak any english? hmmmm
can you imagine traveling thousands of miles for a blind date with a girl that doesn't speak english. excuse me. photoshopped date.
sorry, but this doesn't add up. for one, she will be thinking why do you travel so far to meet her when you haven't even talked with her. she will automatically think there is something wrong with you.
guess I was lucky I had a great time on my first trip. I met a nice lady she of course had me use the interpreter from the agency for the first day ( she speaks English just not very well and a little shy) then I found one cheaper and used her. we had a great time she showed me around the city. she did get sick on my second day there but was feeling better the rest of the time. even the places we ate were fairly cheap she did insist on cooking for me she also made sure I had every thing I needed.
I did have one do a no show and a couple I cut off communication with. this trip I am going to spend some time in Kyiv seeing the city after meeting with the same lady. since I have traveled before I was just expecting to have a vacation even if the lady did a no show.
You are right gecko, I should have called, but when someone invites you after so many letters, I found that normal because, at that point, I thought Ukrainian women were 'normal' too, really looking for a good guy. It happens everywhere, people not finding the right one in their neighbourhood, so I thought it was the same there. I have traveled quite a lot, and never experienced something like Ukraine before, and that what's wronged me.
Anyway, over the phone, scammers will say all you need to hear to go all the way, don't you agree ?
You cannot even be sure it's her on the phone ...
You are right, Pitter pen, saying 'I am ready to travel because I want to see you', in today world is like saying 'I come and you can take everything for me because I am stupid' ... what a sad sad world !
As a said, there are surely very very nice people and women in Nikolaev, but for a tourist, it is a like a war zone, and it is all the people responsibility as a community to let such thing happen, or not !
Yes, the matter is the city and the country, you do not hear so many horror stories about many other countries.
Simply put, there are much much better places on Earth, that's what I meant by avoid 'Ukraine at all cost' ...
Yes, there are beautiful women there, but the system has found a way to use them as a cash machine and the ones who actually get one are very very few, just like lottery winners. The best lies are the ones with a little truth in them.
Gecko, of course no serious woman would do that, one thing I am sure about Ukraine is that women can think really really well, in a very efficient way (for them), a tourist is just a walking wallet ... like anywhere, but even more so in Ukraine ...
What I found UNBELIEVABLE, is that they invite you, let you spend money and time for traveling, hotels and everything, shamelessly, and usually do not show up, or only just a few hours, just enough to get their scam going, and are not even pleasant when you meet them, they order an extra desert to bring home even without asking you for instance ... it is total disrespect for a human being, that's why I call it a war zone ...
This is all good advice "Pika", I read your last post on my 2 laptops for sure & I sent you a private message??? Anyway all I can say is some of us really need the next best thing or option available to us. From reading these message forums, one learns a lot about other's experiences & not to make the same mistake as others did. Yes I will meet my Ukrainian chick, but it will be after a lot of verification & cross checks. Not stupid after reading page long replies from men about there sad encounters. There is something called Russian detective agencies which will do all the work for you if you want. Just google it. If am spending 3-4K what's another $200 on verification? All I know before you go & visit your mate, make sure you know her very well & you have corresponded with her for at least 6 months! The agency doesn't care about what happens to you, they just want the money, & now there is a new option on all the girls for $70 called Date me, but you have to send at least 5 letters to get that option in your profile. I have corresponded with 4 girls in the last 1 year & out of them only 1 has clicked so far. Now I am thinking of initiating a 5th one. I want to make sure when I go to Ukraine I will have enough back up plans if one girl doesn't show up so there is another one. Always have a plan B.
"what serious woman wants to start a relationship with a tourist?"
"Gecko, of course no serious woman would do that"
I don't very much think really serious guys looking for a wife in FSU would consider themselves 'tourists'. Neither have the girls I have met, they know my intentions so why would they consider me a tourist, surely not after a half dozen trips to the same area.
Pika, what happened to you is something many guys go through in the beginning when they don't know much and have NO CONTROL over the situation, whatever somebody says you do. First of all., I determine when I visit, I make my own arrangements, I schedule the meetings....only thing girls know is when I will be there. Only one time has a girl tried to make my arrangements and I balked. Over 80% of girls I plan to meet I do meet and the others just give excuses, which I drop imediately, those are the unserious. I have personaly had better luck with anastasia than fiance, another friend is doing fine on natashaclub. Last 2 serious girls I have met were through freepersonals.ru and mamba,....much of it is luck BUT you have to pick a girl that is 'normal looking' and matches you best.
There is talk of which sites are best, there are none, good and bad in all, it is determined by which girl YOU choose to write to, if you pick that unbelieveable looking young girl then it is a YOU problem if things go bad. If you want less risky, there are then plenty of older women that are more serious
beemer18, tell us more about your weeding out process. like, i am assuming you visit only after you have their personal contact information and have been talking with them on the phone for some period. is there any other advice you could give along these lines.
for me, the ability to have a simple phone conversations would be a must. and i guess that means i wouldn't date someone who didn't know some english.