Nasfan6,
i have read your thread and i have to ask you and everyone else out there...And that is............
What is the best way to meet women who are seriously interested and wanting to find a man who will show them that life has more to offer them??????
As we all know, every agency is out to make a buck from you and me and all the other guys..We all have experienced that at some time....
But remember, an agency is no good without the women...Like i have asked on another thread, who do we blame for this scamming happening to us guys????
Is it us, for thinking that these women will be interested in us?
Is it the women because they know we will do anything to show a woman that we are serious and have good intentions..?
Or do we blame the owners of the agencies that are located in another country and don't have a clue what is going on with their affiliate agency, so long as it makes money???
We have all met women who are game players and that is on any site..But what is the answer here????
Is it best for the owner of the agencies to be from a western country , but, live in the local area, so as to know what goes on and to have a more understanding of how we 'western guys' think??
And the only way i can see men having more control with an agency is to LEARN THE LOCAL LANGUAGE..This way, there is no excuse to use an agency..No excuse for the woman to use an agency and no excuse for US to use an agency..
Nasfan6, i have read your thread and believe me, what you say sounds good, but i did what you are saying and this did not stop the woman from telling me she was not interested in me..I don't know, maybe i had an 'one off', bad woman who is not interested in any guy unless you are Brad Pitt or something!!!!!!
First thing I have never been one to blame others for my irresponsibility or lack of being prepared. When I first came here a few years back there were some real experienced travelers here. I was told where to find information. What to watch out for etc, etc, etc. When my feet hit the ground in Ukraine I knew where I was going and what I was trying to do. This was a one shot affair for me. If the lady blew me off so be it I would visit some cities in Ukraine for the fun of it and head home. I did not have great expectations!! I knew she could say, well I'm not interested.
I met a beautiful woman with a ton of commmon sense. We agreed to meet in Kiev if we thought we needed an interpreter we would find one there. After about eight on nine months of phone conversation, which I noticed her English had improved, I knew she was studying the language. She was putting forth effort. This is a two way street!
You don't need the local language, what you need to get out of your head Jamie is trying to get control of the agency. You don't need the local language. Find a woman who speaks your language it's not that difficult. There are many. My wife spoke it well enough in the beginning for us to communicate. It was quite fun learning different words from each others language. Sharing a common effort to communicate.
Don't jump on the first plane because the first set of pretty eyes winks at you. A good woman will want to get to know you a lot more first before you arrive unless she has other motives.
If she wants to use only agency services, move on to another lady that will follow your lead.
Nothing is accomplished until you are there. Just use common sense. No woman in their right mind is going to tell you they love you in a letter. No woman is going to come to your country until she's spent significant time with you. You are going to make multiple trips, though we have one guy here in the past thinking his one trip and less than five grand spent is going to work. I hope it does, but I don't have much faith.
Jamie you got your ass kicked the first time around. Time to put down the axe and move on. Learn from this experience. Learn from other guys. I learned from a bunch of guys, even as I hate to admit it, some things from MartinUK.
Your story had danger signs and red flags written all over it. You should have learned more about this woman. Why the hell even go if she was going to work while you were there? Vacations are plentiful and there are many long holidays in Ukraine. If a woman has sincerity to meet you, she isn't going to be at work most of the time.
I've been to Romance Socials - two sets. One set in 2003 (Odessa), another set in 2007 (Dometsk).
At each - I met an incredible lady.
It is NOT like speed dating in the LEAST. But then you, having absolutely no first hand knowledge and speaking out of your BUTT would know better than I do RIGHT?!
And Marticns comments are right on the money. I'm a little surprised that Martin had such favorable things to say about Romance Socials, I admit. But again he was right on.
jamie1964 - looks to me like you need to get a clue about a LOT of things.
afa is trying to survive in the current climate. the agencies that they relied on were somewhat decent many years ago but only because there was enough women who truly thought they were making their life better by living in another country.
now there are so many ways that a decent and attractive girl can meet people. through sites like bride.ru where direct information is exchanged, to other websites where people can communicate through direct chat. Girls just don't need these agencies like they used to.
you hear about these pay per letter writing factories in nikolaev. the people in these companies didn't grow up dreaming to scam people from other countries. but what oppurtunites do they have in their little cities? they learn english for 8 years just to become an english teacher? besides the money, i think some of them enjoy writing romance letters.
you ask if there are any good tour companies. to me, the problem is not the agencies but the girls. like that popular book, 'he's just not that into you', well, sadly, these girls are just not into us that much. And thats why the socials suck. otherwise i think they would be ok.
one good thing about socials is that you will meet a group of guys in the same situation as you. i met a guy one year and we spent a few weeks on our own searching for women. i can say its really nice being able to speak in your native language to someone and also split living expenses. also, it seems to me that you just meet alot more people in a group vs. as a loner.
jetmba
If you think martin's comments are right on the money then i would have to think he's fooled too many people..
I have not been to a social and i have stated that, i have only put down my thoughts on that and what i would think about traveling that far for a social..
But then again either has the forum 'orical'( AKA martin) been to a social either..He is getting he's advise from he's best mate who happens to be a woman who owns a agency.....
Think about that, A married man who's best mate is a woman from a dating agency????
If socials work for you jetmba, then that's great, ...IT WORKS FOR YOU...maybe not for everyone else!!!!!!!
Have a read about what gecko has just written down about socials...Is he a fool in your eyes as well and needs to get a clue??????
I would have also thought that if a man who knows a lot about everything, has a lot of first hand knowledge and is 'up to speed' on the FSU situation-plus, then i would have thought that after starting out in 2003 hitting the socials then perhaps that man would not be here now, because i would have thought if he was a decent man then a decent woman would have taken him up_RIGHT?!...
But if that guy is still single then...............................................?????
Having to put a 'code' in all the time just to send a message is a pain in the arse..
nasfan,
It surprises me when you say that a person doesn't need to speak the language, i would have thought this would be good for a person to get around on their own and also, you don't have try and find a woman who speaks the same language..An advantage of course..
My trip was a one shot affair also, but, if i had been told after the first meeting that I'm not what she is looking for, then that would have been fine, because i would have changed my plans and spent more time in Odessa and visit other cities..In the back of my mind i did view it as a holiday rather then going over for a single purpose...There was also a AFA social to be held in Nikolaev in the middle of July that year and i would have attended that and perhaps gain more experience....
I know i would like to learn Russian and then go and have a look at such cities as St. Petersburg and Moscow before giving the FSU countries away for good..Is there other interesting places to visit in the same area???
I remember another guy on the forum saying to OLga about the first thing a person notices after leaving FSU and going to another country is the people are not only more helpful, they are also more happy and have better cultural understanding...I picked up on this after leaving Kiev and landing in Amsterdam...And i hope that FSU people don't EVER travel to Hong Kong, because they will think they are in another planet were the people go out of their way to help them AND WANT to help them....But I'm sure martin will write a book one day about 'world travel without soap' and 'How to know FSU dating and other catastrophe's'
Now, after traveling to FSU and after observing most of the people, it's no wonder a lot of Russian/Ukraine people travel to Egypt, only a camel with put up with them!!!( joke)...Did you liked the camel rides in Egypt Olga??
To me, on this forum now, there is too much arguing ( with the exception of the forum's pet, AKA martin).. i see many people with different opinions on what is right and what is the unacceptable thing to do and too many different wrong answers/opinions/point of views..When a person says something that someone else disagrees on, he is pounced on by the 'so called experts'...Guys that are on here knocking everyone else when they, themselves, haven't got a clue either...
For sure, martin has got some good things to say and not everything i disagree with him on, but i find when the experts keep bagging other people all the time then it's time to look closely at the experts and i can find plenty of mistakes in them too..And that is not just pointed at martin.....
Myself, unlike a lot of other men who open their mouths up on this site, at least i can put my hand up when i make a mistake and by telling people about my trip and what i noticed, all that seems to flood in is,, the experts comments...
Even i have notice that martin is the site's 'untouchable', he can say anything about what he wants and places words that i thought that would be blocked by the 'moderator', OLga..
But i wrote a full and comprehensive character reference to martin ( a guy who likes to put other people under the microscope but doesn't like it himself), a letter without any profanities or 'cheap shots' and it was blocked by the 'moderator'...This made me smile because it obvious that because of martin's charismatic personality, I'm sure he's left a few first impressions..Which, by the way, someone told told me these were important..
Martin is also an expert on where QANTAS takes most Australian's to our favorite overseas holiday destination...It starts with a B and ends in a KOK...Well done martin. For a pom, your the a leading expert of every facet in life...
I've got a joke for you martin, :Why did god make poms smell??..That;s so even the blind could hate them"
And jetmba, you agree with what this guy talks about?????? ...A pom telling a yank????....
I've read some of your letters on this forum jetmba and it seems to me your approach to everything is like a bulldozer in a coal pit..
I have never said a word before on your letters to the different subjects, only because i could see that you were trying and battling on ( i like this type of person over a charismatic person anyday) but after your last letter i thought it was time to make yourself aware on perhaps why you will spend thousands of dollars on FSU socials and will still be on a forum site in the next 10 years...
Are you digging what I'm shoveling???????
I wonder if Olga will allow this letter of mine to go through after i have mentioned the word's 'martin' and 'expert' so closely together, because i have noticed that a few of my letters are blocked..Maybe i need to start talking like a bulldozer or a pom...Hmmm, Nope!!.
Putting this stupid image code in all the time to place a letter must be a FSU 'idea'...
You mean agencies are trying to make a profit?
Say it aint so!
Why not use an agency for initial contact?
After a few letters, get their personal information, address, phone and email.
If you cannot get that info, then move along.
"there is no such thing as a good agency."
If you have never used one, then you cannot justify that statement.
They are in it for profit just as any other company would be.
I have used an agency that charges per letter but gives out personal information as well.
They have been helpful about contacting people to see the level of interest and have
also advised me to stop writing someone and they removed them from the service.
The agency does not "kick them to the curb" but encourages those seeking K-1 visas.
Of course you can file for this for free yourself and they charge $300 to do so but
why not charge for services rendered?
martin,
I would like to take this opportunity to apologize for the comment "world travel without soap'..And my joke..
I also wish to point out to other people that i don't judge others by their place of residents ( country)...
It was not the case that I was saying favourable things about romance socials, as you know they are not, and never have been, my cup of tea, I was merely reporting factually whilst correcting another, as you so diplomatically put it, 'talking out of BUTT' :)
As many on this forum have known for a long time, when I met my wife she was an agency interpreter working as No.2 for the agency owned by her best friend, her best friend being the agency No.1.
During some 12 trips to Ukraine, during my relatioship with my wife, her best friend and me became best friends also so if, as ignoramus insinuates, it is so unusual for me to be married whilst having a female best friend from a dating agency, indeed a wife from a dating agency, then I guess that's something that I can live with!
But these 'cheap shots' of his are really quite amusing, he's more funny than the forum retard also from Australia.
Texasdude I will agree with you with the one exception. Kicking the girls to the curb. I know it's been done, it was done to my wife when she left the reservation and met me without agency having their hands in my pocket. It's happened to some of her friends and some girls at her agency. So it has and does happen.
Charging for services rendered? What services? The agency filing a K1 that's a recipe for disaster.
I was engaged to the lady I met in 2003. Brought her to the US for three months on a fiance visa. It didn't work out then - so sue me. There are no guarantees. The ladies don't have warrantees stamped on their foreheads or anywhere else (trust me - I looked). But ironically the lady and I have begun to see each other again recently. Whereas all you seem to be able to find - and all you paint yourself as, is a loser.
Doesn't make sense to you to travel all that way for a social? But yet the technique WORKS so well for many of us. Yest you have no trouble traveling all that way to be TAKEN using your techniques. Do you see any inconsistancies here? Or are you too bone headed?
jamie1964 - perhaps a Romance Social wouldn't work for you. After all - you still have to have personality features that APPEAL to women. They don't come in a box to be collected at the door for anyone with the price for admission.
The FSU is one place to find women - but there are losre guys who will never find one there or ANYWHERE else. Think of it as Darwinian protection of the species. Certain traits aren't handed down because the people who have them don't get a chance to mate. And maybe thats best for all.
jamie1964 - no matter what you pay or what technique you use I doubt you will ever find a lady anywhere.
Perhaps its best for you to buy a dog. You can put those on leashes and they have to stay with you no matter how offensive your personailty is.
Jetmba, hello.
I can see that you will be still on this forum in 10 years time and still complaining..
I'm reading about your 2003 adventure and now you seeing her again????
Well, you certainly know what your doing..
You will have to encourage everybody to read all of your threads about how not to be a loser or a bone head...But I'm sure after 10 years on the forum sites your literacy skills will be excellent just like the leader of the goats : )
And who knows, you will probably be presented with a trophy of ' diligence in the field of endurance' for attending socials after 20 years....
Jetmba, listen to what bill green thinks and says before you listen to martin and also read what ragingbull has to say, both of these people stand out over the rest of us 'goats' who are on here...
But i hope you will step down from your bulldozer and take note of what they say, because it's obvious that your technics need attention also..
So sue me, who talks this way??...Didn't you get an education??
Looks like I will change my name to the 'ignoramus one', just to keep up with the jones's : ) .......NO!
So jamie1964 doesn't even LIKE Ukrainian or Russian women (given his description above regarding Egypt) - so why is the fool spending so much time trying to find one?
Its jamie1964 who doesn't have clue. I'm perfectly satisfied with my situation and my experiences with FSU ladies, with the single variation that I have been perhaps TOO successful and now must make a difficult decision. Most other writers here are also very satisfied with their situations.
jamie1964 - I suggest you do the world a favor and STOP spending any more money on trips to the FSU for women only camels will put us with as you have so cleverly mentioned. Instead buy yourself a full length mirror and a good supply of handcream and tissues and have at it with the only person you will ever be compatible with - yourself.
(But i wrote a full and comprehensive character reference to martin)
Been brainwashed in the miltary and believes himself qualified to write a full (and comprehensive) character assassination of someone who he has never met.
Frigging hilarious, it just gets better and better :)
I suggest you simply change your name to "malcontent idiot" to differentiate yourself from the other person here who has long held a claim to the latter part of that name.
My techniques have worked very well and unlike you, I have no complaints.
Perhaps you should stop looking and take up something else, like maybe fishing? Being as clueless as you are you probably won't catch any anyway - but it will give you cause to stop annoying the rest of us who are pretty content with the way our lives and our searches have gone.
Little things say a lot about a persona's personality (or lack thereof).
How many times has jamie1964 complained about having to enter an image code? Everyone else just lets it go.
jamie1964 is an impatient nitpicker, and that is just one of his annoying tendencies. Women don't LIKE people with crappy personalities (nor do men) in ANY country.
Like I said - some guys will never be successful ANYWHERE. jamie1964 seems clearly to be one of those guys.
The forum is spiraling out of control and out of touch with the main purpose of which it was intended for....People to share their personal experiences and their adventures and place them into some kind of retrospect and perspicuity , without the fear of retribution or persecution, but now, unfortunately it seems that if things don't change then we are all going to be drawn into vortex out of control...
As texasdude said in his thread, dated 04.05.2009,( I thought this should remind those who stay with the forum and use it in the future to try to adhere to his words...
And it goes something like this........
"Don't shoot someone down when their approach is different from yours.
Just give your suggestions and we appreciate the input and feedback..
Let us use the information and let us decide which approach is best for us..."
Texasdude, that is the best sentence i have read on all the threads i have come across...
A friend of mine has now made me aware of where I'm heading by staying on the forum and even though he is far away, it seems to me, that he can read my mind..Thanks for the push Bill...I'm wasting too much energy on here...
This is my last thoughts for the last 2 letters by guys who need no introduction....
Jetmba,
your personal and public address on how and what you use for self abuse with the help a full length mirror-plus, raised my eyebrows and probably OLga's too...
For this statement you have to receive ( I'm sure everyone on the forum who read's this will agree) the prestigious award for being the winner of , " A lost sock in the laundromat of life" trophy..
You really are a knob jockey....
And of course, I'm sure he has waited for his name to be mentioned...martin...A man who likes to stamp his unquestionable reputation on those who dare to stand before him...
And please don't place him under a mircoscope like he has a right to do with others, because when i did this to him, i noticed a lot of bugs..
Your pleasure in commenting on others about their grammer, thoughts and their mistakes and how you thought you were so perfect in yours, gave me the impression of you as a Liberace look-a-like....You know the type i mean....A cheap gold watch on one wrist and cheap gold bangle on the other wrist with a blow wave in your hair...
And when you keep coming back to me with your well travel 'whit', i thought that it was like comparing it to being flogged with a warm lettuce......
But after your saying "friggin hilarious", i can see that you are a man!!!!...Only a TRUE man would use the word, "friggin" and spell it like that.....I feel better now that i apologized for my saying about your book, 'world travel without soap' and the shallow part about Poms being smelly.....
But i would like to thank everyone else for their letters to me, i wish you all the best..Goodbye and Good luck...