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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > "To pay, or not to pay?" that is the question. Author Post Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/17/2009 6:53:58 AM   Hi Guys, I already know my answer. But I thought I would throw this out there. It appears that I have been a bit over zealous to say the least. And feel free to tell me if I am wrong in my approach to this. Or if I just plain have my head up my ass. I can take it if it is warranted. Because I have not had long correspondance with many ladies (only two months or less for some) I figured I would try to meet more than a few in person. 30 minutes with a person is more than enough to know if it is a waste of time or not. Although I have set aside 4 whole nights for a lady coming in from Russia to Ukraine to stay with me. BTW, she knows I am meeting other women. The problem is there are more women than days. I have already told a few that I cannot meet them this trip because of other committments. Yet they are still asking me to meet them. A lady from Karhkov - sp? Who originally expected me to travel there is now telling me she wishes to travel to Kiev to meet me even after I told her it was not possible to meet this time. Lovely lady. Here is the shit. Every one of these ladies I either wrote to or spoke to on the phone I told them I was not a rich man. I am just a regular working guy who wishes to have a family with a good woman. The only thing I could promise them is that I am a good man. No shit! Now I come to realize that there ain't enough days in the hours or minutes in the seconds. I have six days to play the field so to speak. 5 days devoted to my lovely from russia. And one day on the backside. Actually 2 since Natashia is leaving in the morning - 24 hour train ride - to be back to work. Took a few days off to see me. "to pay or not to pay" I guess this is about two things. First as mentioned above. second. A lady from Sumy wishes to take the trip to Kiev to see me. For a while we have been exchanging pleasantries photos etc. And I am thinking she is the real deal. I originally told her it is not possible to meet at this time. Just recently I made a decision to see her but I could not travel to meet her. She tells me it is 4-5 hour trip and she will come early in the morning to meet me. And she asked, or more so indicated that, "I(me)will pay for the road." Back to point of this. Is it unreasonable that a woman would ask this of me? She is a single parent with a fair job. I invited her to visit since I wish not to travel from Kiev on my first trip. I do not know the lay of the land and they could be speaking Martian for all I know, better to be safe. Should I drop a hundy or so for her travel expense? And is it reasonable for her to ask to me? (funny I'm starting to talk like them) Natashia has not asked me for a dime. And she in fact already paid for a side trip we have planned - she will be reimbursed of course. Just curious on your thoughts that she (Sumy) asked me to pay. Since I read a lot about being weary of those who request $ for various reasons. Let's make this 3 points of discussion. And I can't wait to be torn apart for this. Not counting 5 phone numbers I have stored on my phone from outside Kiev, I have 7 numbers 8? in Kiev alone. Am I just plain crazy? Is this the norm???? Every one of these - scratch that, two kvs I know are highly questionable - comes across as sincere. Let the flood gates open. Tell me if you think I am an idiot or not. gecko Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/17/2009 9:31:34 AM   a lovely girl is traveling 24hrs by train to meet you. and you are already figuring out how to meet other women. this is what Ukraine does to people. it reveals peoples character. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/17/2009 11:03:45 AM   Wow Julian, you're probably going to get lots of replies. To your central questions: "Am I just plain crazy?" -- Probably "Tell me if think I am an idiot or not." -- Perhaps, but not more of an idiot than I Kharkov (Russian spelling) Kharkiv (Ukrainian spelling) You've promised these gals "a good man," and now you will disappoint some of them. Ouch - for me, this would be the most serious problem; I try (operative word being "try") to be a man of my word. For future trips, you'll doubtless want to plan smarter. If I could afford another trip during the summer, I would prefer to tell any other serious prospects, "sorry about now, but I will return _____." Fortunately, Ukraine is relatively inexpensive this summer. You're probably younger and stronger than I, but with the overnight flight and the 7-hour time difference, my first day in country is pretty much of a write-off, so if I have 6 nights, I'll get 5 useful days. Some women have a very strong reaction to the idea of a "shopping trip" (I had unexpected free time in Moscow, sent out some "here this weekend" messages to Moscow ladies on a dating site, and received a flamethrower reply message from a beauty (working in show business) about the guys who come to meet one woman and then seek out others - in fact, I hadn't been planning ANY dating in Moscow, oh well. Other women understand that you will be making several meetings, but probably none of them like it. Take two minutes to imagine if the situation were reversed! I have experienced trying to meet a number of women in just a few days -- it's a juggling act that I find to be fairly stressful. Expect you time with woman C to be interrupted by an urgent call or SMS from woman E about you plans for tomorrow... Most of these women have regular commercial jobs, and usually can't meet during business hours, so making a lot of meetings in a couple of days is not easy. I'm a little ashamed to tell that I once blew off (by text message) a quality gal in favor of a beguiling gold-digger who wanted to monopolize my time (in order to drain my wallet more deeply). And if this is your first trip, maybe you'll be surprised how much of your brain-power will be taken up simply absorbing the newness of it all. And in russia (meaning Russian-speaking lands), plans very frequently go wrong, and delays are very common. The people who live there are quite philosophical about this. To put it simply, you're taking an awfully big bite for a first trip. For myself, I have some experience, speak the language a little, and enjoy exploring, I usually wouldn't ask or expect a woman to travel far to meet me, I would go to her town, or at least the nearest big city. If I invited a woman to travel in order to meet me, I would think it proper to pay her costs. Average incomes in America (I'm assuming you're in US?) are roughly five times what they are in Ukraine. The amount the lady is asking you to pay sounds reasonable (not the $400 cab ride from another thread!). One more opinion: after 30 minutes with a person, I will know (not absolutely, but with a maybe 80% confidence) if she is NOT suitable. But if I don't reach this conclusion (things seem OK, or even very good), it takes me a lot more time than that to understand whether someone might be a prospect... Some of the men here, and I am one of them, look at any trip as experience, and an opportunity for education. Julian, you're going to learn a lot! I wish you the best of luck. When do you depart? Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/17/2009 12:56:50 PM   Some will be saying one thing but when it comes to the time will make excuses whilst others will want to meet you kmerely so they can take your credit card shopping. The trick is to figure which ones fit in to which categories and then one should realise the serious ones which are probably the less prettier ones. Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/17/2009 4:34:35 PM   Durak -- very cool response SM - same Gecko- I'm bullshitting. Well somewhat. The train lady is very cool. However we both know and are very aware of an intial meeting. She even told me that it is expected that a man will want to have contact and meet several ladies as it was explained to het on the "site". So she is cool about it. Christ, she is spending four days with me. But I recall from a certain individual from another thread who had lost a lady because her son had gotten into trouble and she sparked off to save him. (MC? or was that you martin--I forget)The train lady has a son in medical school and he is of the ripe age of getting into trouble. I actually listen. So why not cover the bases? Besides, I spent over a month talking to a lady who lived five miles from me last year. After the initial sexual bliss she turned into the 'C' word. Why would I spend hard earned us currency in the unconfirmed confidence that a lady is all that. So forgive me for having options. Gecko, I assure you I am not a player. Baron555 - if you eventually get here. My original plan was through a 'legit' agency. However, their ability to return messages and keep me in the know is zuilch. Too bad because there is a girl there I truly want to meet. But why should I go in blind? That is why I ventured out on my own. I have no confidence in that 'agency' since they are less than forthright in their ability to return emails etc. SM you know the one I'm talking about. $40 to meet a lady... So now, where do I stand? I have only one solid committment. The train lady. The rest are just call me when you get into town. Except, yes, I have no problem paying a lady's way to meet me. Especially this one. A few hundies does not matter. That's a few cases of beer. So she is on the docket for a day. And it was not in my orignal plan to meet this lady. She knew that fact. But after becoming skeptical of a certain agency I contacted her and we made a date. Short notice but she wanted to come to Kiev because it is a beautiful city with much history etc... I'm in!!! News flash............ I told a lady a month ago that it was not possible for us to meet this trip. I just got off the phone with her. She is going to fly to KEEV - I got that right - to spend a day or two with me. Where in the hell is Dnipropetivosk anyway? So unofficially I am meeting a girl for a day. Another girl for a day. And I'll probably hang out at O'Brien's and throw darts for a few days until the train arrives, unless I make a phone call or two. And I will also pay for the flight from dnipropwhatever. Gecko, would you take two weeks to fly to another country you have never visited in the hopes that one lady you have correponded with will turn out to be your one and only? Forgive me for my skepticism. But as it was pointed out to me, these women are very sharp. I returned too soon as there was not enough time for the soup to boil. All of what I had originally posted is true. Yet I had made no solid committments other than my posssible ticket out of work. Train lady is an entreprenuer. Big into internet marketiing. Very cool lady. But... durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/17/2009 5:21:45 PM   It's Kiev or Kyiv ;) This is kind of off-topic, but I'm glad you mentioned the "son in trouble" question... I did catch that story about the woman who returned home, on whichever thread... There have been huge changes since Soviet times, and one of them is that there are many more opportunities/temptations for teens (especially boys) to behave really badly, and there are lots of broken families, and of course the children of the women on the dating sites usually have practically no father presence. [This isn't SO different from here in America, but for those of us looking for love Over There, these kinds of family problems have International Complications.] This has been on my mind - I'm very fond of children, but when I see that a woman has children in their mid to late teens, I am concerned about the risk of problems. baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/17/2009 5:43:36 PM   I'm back here Julian. Was out this weekend laying track at my dog tracking club's May test. I am all against shopping trips. How can any woman take you seriously if you are just window shopping. Of course you know that these ladies are also shopping for men also. Personally I am dead set against the idea. Go and meet just one. What if this is THE lady? My thoughts are that if you window shop (and the ladies will know) how will you convince them in the future that you have turned serious. I guess a question would be your age and their age. If you are both young, then you may not be experienced enough to tell via correspondence if they are serious. You have to manage them. They ALL will tell you to call them when you are in town but keep the numbers down to just a few or a couple. As far as paying for the train trip. Yes, what the hell is a hundred dollars IF she it THE lady? I wouldn't send money to her. Go with her in Kiev to the train station and buy the ticket together. Even though she has a job, it is the man's responsibility to pay for the lady and paying for her return trip is only proper. TINTIN Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/17/2009 6:54:40 PM   Would any man in his home country take a woman shopping on a first or 20th date?.This is a scam she will take as much as you can spend.Before you have time to look at the check out PRICE SHE WOULD HAVE SEEN YOU VISA CARD TO SEE YOUR VALUE. You Crazy.Also dont expect any woman in FSU TO TRAVEL ANY GREAT DISTANCE TO MEET YOU.They are busy have a life.Meet the bgirl in her own city.If she turns up your 25% ok. devilmaycare Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/17/2009 7:26:03 PM   I think your basic approach of having a main girl to see but having backups is a good plan, that's how I am playing it myself on future trips. Having backups will also allow you to be more objective about the main girl. Really for a first visit your in pretty good shape. Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/17/2009 10:42:19 PM   B555, It was not my plan to go shopping. However, that is the exact approach of the "legit" agency. set you up with 5... They still have not provided any details after I asked them what's up. So in that sense it is window shopping by default. durak/baron ... first of all KEEV was in reference to how she pronounced - sleeve with a K. The son in trouble... If I had heard that story a month ago I would not have made plans with the train lady. It was her idea to come to Kiev when I told her I couldn't make it to her in the short notice time to get a visa to Russia. And that I already had a trip scheduled. I scheduled the trip on the premise of the original shopping spree set up by the 'legit' agency. Now when guys go out to bars/night clubs in US- isn't that shopping? I myself do not do that yet now I'm starting to wonder if this is any different. As far as women know we are meeting others... Isn't it what they are also doing? You mean to tell me that I am the first guy or only guy these women are corresponding with? That's naive to even believe that. So this is the story. I got tired of waiting to hear from the agency that started this whole thing. I set up a meeting and kept the first week free to fulfill my committment to the 'legit' agency. I am one who lives by a schedule. So if in less than week until I arrive I have not heard any details - or anything other than we can get you an apartment blah-blah-blah... What would you do? Plan B. There was no plan B until I grew tired of waiting to hear from the 'legit' agency. I went back to a couple ladies who I told it was not possible to meet. The one wishes to come to Kiev from Sumy. I will make sure she is taken care of for her expense. The second one I spoke to earlier in the day just to say hello to and telling her that I will be in country suggested she meet me. I told her it was too far for me and that I didn't know the country well enough to travel 600k to meet her. That our possible meeting will have to wait... She came right out with, "There are four flights every day to "KEEV" and she will gladly fly to meet me." I did not even suggest it. But talking to her and knowing her intentions I acquiesced. There you have it. I don't think I am out of line here. And for the 30 minute rule, I have met women here and knew within five minutes... Day 1- find out where the f I am and find out if agency is real, day 2 - meet girl from sumy, day 3- if the agency is legit who knows? day 4- meet girl from Dniprop day 7-10 spend time with lady from russia. Is this unreasonable? Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/17/2009 11:05:58 PM   durak, as i stated on another thread, I am looking at this as an educational experience and fact finding mission. I have already scheduled another trip tens weeks out. If I hadn't already paid for a fishing trip to Montana I would go back in six weeks. I made it very clear to several ladies that I could not meet them this trip. And who knows... baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/18/2009 5:29:11 AM   Julian, your plan sounds fine. Yes I agree, assuming you know the woman from Sumy well enough from your emails, phone calls and Skype sessions, then her initiating to travel to Kiev to see you is a good sign in my opinion. How well do you know all of these women? Do you have photos of her in everyday situations? Have you seen her live on Skype? Dunromin Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/18/2009 6:48:43 AM   To pay or not to pay? You pay, she plays. Men propose, women dispose. You figure it out, you’re a big boy. FWIW, I wouldn’t “pre” pay. The visit one or visit many is the longest running multi thread debates on the internet short of age gap arguments. Here’s how the reality often plays out. She / they might accept you visiting many on the surface at first but a Russian (Generic as Slavic is Slavic) will never ever forget. She (according to Russian Feminine logic) is entitled to window shop or for that matter even try the merchandise on for size and fit so far as she chooses, as many times as it takes, but YOU, YOU, You must be a gentleman and never dream of such a thing, even though every dude she ever dated has prolly rooted 20 of her school mates and is prolly rooting her sister right now and she knows deep down you have dipped your wick plenty of times before she came into the picture. I think you’re in for a funny trip. Been there, done that, for six months (not 6 days) straight, twice and it is an awful juggling act. Good for flushing the post divorce “cholesterol” from the “pipes”, bit like angioplasty when you think about it, however other than learning your way around a new location and placing marks on the wall or her/their “walls”, it doesn’t actually do much in pursuit of a long term partner apart from perhaps quelling the desire to “go there” sometime later. The challenge for you no less than me years ago is whether or not you can get away with something so ill-advised. The answer is, you'll strike some unexpected blows and you’ll also have your arse handed to you a few times when you least expect it. On balance, you’ll have some fun and you might just be really lucky but I wouldn’t place any bets on it. Umpteen before you have tried similar. I have to say it is not such a bad ploy first up when you are not all that focused but by the same token, it was when I got over all the nonsense of laying every decent looking doll who came my way whichever country I was in, the mind cleared enough to sift the wood from the trees and to my complete surprise, the fairest flower in the forest had been standing virtually right in front of me for years. Just sayin'........... CourteousM Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/18/2009 8:14:24 AM   can you tell me how did you meet them and what website helped you to meet those serious women ? . thanks in advance baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/18/2009 8:37:28 AM   I like DRs comments. I concur. How would you feel as a man if the woman who you may be attracted to came to your country and set you up as the Tuesday afternoon guy? Then she left you and you knew she was going to meet many other men. What would your opinion be of her? I'd venture not a good one. And this is the woman who you may marry? When would you know she becomes serious on you? The legit agency offers this blind date setup. I personally don't like it for the same reasons, especially if you have been corresponding with these women prior to the meeting. If you have not been corresponding with the women and these one date a day trips is setup, then I have no problem with that. If you serious about or considering to be serious about a woman, in my opinion, you should only go to see that woman and none other. Yes have a few numbers in your book just in case, but what if you two click? ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/18/2009 11:37:14 AM   If you serious about or considering to be serious about a woman, in my opinion, you should only go to see that woman and none other. Yes have a few numbers in your book just in case, but what if you two click? I made that point when I was fairly new. Noone commented, so I thought it was thought of as bad advice. The advice from admin of most of the websites say otherwise. I am serious about the women I see. I did rush my second one because the one I was going to see canceled. But on my three visits, I went to see one woman and no other. Yes, I did have a few numbers in my briefcase. As Dunromin said, no Slavic woman will forget. As baron said, no woman would. What if you two click, but you went and saw another. If you go back to her, you will hear about it for years. My second gf, asked about my first several times. My current, asked about both of them, more than I cared to hear. And, I didn't leave her to visit another. devilmaycare Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/18/2009 2:20:58 PM   The one/many dilemma is that a genuine girl who likes you may well be put off by knowing she's one of many, but on the other hand if a girl doesn't like you she wont give 2 s***s that you've travelled half way round the world to meet her. Not sure what the ideal strategy is but probably to arrange to meet maybe 3 or 4 girls on successive days telling each one them that the day you meet them is the day you arrive (or the day after). If you meet one you like then you can stick with her and blow the remaining ones out with a "my flight was cancelled/dog eat my passport", or just ignore them as once you've found "the one" then it doesn't matter if you leave a few others pissed off at you. Actually now that I mention it I think that we often too considerate and too afraid to mess them about, certainly a lot more afraid of it than they are of messing us about :-). Ties in with DR's point about their dual standards, even genuine girls will think nothing of any trouble or expense they put you to, well maybe there is one but I think peteb has already bagged her :-). Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/18/2009 8:08:54 PM   CouteousM - at this point it would be unfair to name names. I don't have any hard data and I am basing my displeasure on conjecture. I'll let you know if a few weeks. But as far as I am concerned, I have no doubts about the sincerety of 80% of the ladies I have corresponded with. TINTIN - sorry about the rally cap joke, I realize to take it seriously. I am not that self serving a person that I would even ASK a lady to travel to meet for the first time. The circumstances were that I made the original plan and grew skeptical. I did not ask any lady to travel to meet me. That is why I did not make plans to meet anyone outside of the original set up deal. However as otherwise stated... If had begun the search earlier my whole plan would be lot different. I have to take time from job when I can, not when I want. If I had the ability to go as I please, I would not be going to Kiev. I would be heading for Belarus. It is what it is. Yet it has been a quick decision. baron/DR - I am scared to death that I may actually meet the ONE the first or second day there. Then have to tell her that I have another committment. My biggest fault is that I am a bad liar. In other words, I am honest to a fault. Or incapable of telling a lie. The one lady I wanted to meet from the start of this whole process finally sends me an email last night. Yet I don't know much about her. She finally sends me her phone number, wants to know when my flight gets in etc.... Now what. As I said, the only definite plans I have are meeting a train on my 7th day there. If miss wonderful - or the legit agency - had contacted me sooner. I would have zero other plans. So yes, I will probably get my ass handed to me. I remember my first freshamn football practice. Got my face thrown into the dirt many times. This is all very interesting. And also that there are differing opinions from the readership. I'm sure somewhere out there is a betting line on me. Miss Sumy sent me a very interesting letter today. What I glean from it is she is not fooling around. And also very cautious and guarded. A good sign. Or else she is the smartest scammer ever. As far as the vengeful memory aspect of it. Well, ... It has always been a double standard. Of course these women aren't stupid. I wouldn't even consider going if I thought otherwise. And if they think they can bully a man over a process that are very well aware of... DR, does your lady still throw it in your face?? Dunromin Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/18/2009 9:52:11 PM   Quote: “DR, does your lady still throw it in your face??” ROFL, of course....!! She is Russian, it is her birthright. baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/18/2009 10:14:58 PM   The one lady I wanted to meet from the start of this whole process finally sends me an email last night. Yet I don't know much about her. Then she is not on top of your list, right? Miss Sumy sent me a very interesting letter today. What I glean from it is she is not fooling around. Sounds like she is on the top of your list. Julian, you have to know that when you state that you are serious in finding you forever mate, that when everything clicks, that you are able to cast off off the other takers and concentrate on the one. You seem like you are not able to do this or you are not really serious in considering these woman/women as you forever mate. You must make you mind up for yourself. Are you really really serious about this or (as others here post) are you just window shopping and hoping to get laid once a night? There is a big difference between the two. If Miss Sumy meets all of your "criteria" and hopefully you meet all of "hers", then why continue to shop around? I know you know what I mean and do not mean to be mean. Phil Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > "To pay, or not to pay?" that is the question.
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