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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > One more thing... Author Post Muzzy Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2009 4:22:39 AM   Slight addendum to my last thread, While I've had experience of the 'questionable' side of FSU dating, I have to say that every one of the girls I met had stories to tell about the western men they'd met. For instance: Date 1: An American man had snatched her phone from her and smashed it on the ground because she took a call while they were on a date. She was still pretty upset about it, and had left the agency she'd me him through Date 2: - has a stalker. He called her while we were on our date. He's bought a flat in Kiev, and keeps following her and her friends. He's made threats and keeps proposing (always a magical combination). I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't been witness to the phone conversation. 'Date' 3 (I use the term loosely): The agency-employee-girl told me that naked webcam shots from western men are common. I'm not saying this justifies these agencies doing what they do, but if the girls' impression of us western men is that we're all seedy old perverts, who are just interested in going out there for sex, then I would imagine they'll feel less guilty about their job. While I hold on to hope that idiots like these men don't completely ruin it for the genuine guys who are looking for something real (and are not certifiable window-lickers), I have to give FSU ladies the same benefit of the doubt I'm asking them for. In total, I met five girls, four of which were far from genuine. While it seems to me that finding the right lady is akin to finding a four leaf clover in a minefield, I will, from now on, be keeping in mind that it's much the same experience for any genuine FSU lady. Eye opening and humbling. This is not an experience I'll soon forget! Thoughts welcome :) baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2009 11:59:45 AM   I never had this problem. I didn't use the fly out and blind date them technique either. I used onewebsite and, because of my serious preparations and honesty, began to correspond immediately with some very real women. I was able to correspond through various methods to many and was finally able to mutually agree with one to correspond exclusively. In the end I had about 7 women that were legit and whom I could see myself in a serious relationship with and with a chance of long term success. We chose each other, continued our correspondence, then met and our hearts confirmed what our heads had told us from our extensive correspondence. We are now waiting for her interview to be scheduled. I believe that many "waste" so much time and money because of one or more of the following: They are not really serious. They do not know how to pick the right women. They choose women outside of the group that would give them the best chance for success. They are not prepared. They do not know how to correspond. They are just not desirable to any women (and usually end up blaming the women for their failures). They do not know what they want in a woman. They do not know who they are and what they bring to the table for a relationship. I do not personally have tons of experience. I determined one day that I was going to give it a go, try for an international relationship. I did my homework. I determined which sites were scams and which were not. I wrote a killer introduction letter. I had it professionally translated. I was serious. I spent a lot of time determing who I was and what qualities in an woman I desired (not physical). I did not correspond until I was ready and had the means to travel. Maybe I got lucky? Luck increases with hard work. My experience, there are a lot of real women out there. FSULover Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2009 2:11:47 PM   Baron: I do not see my failed attempts to find the right girl as a "waste of time and money." In fact, the failures were great learning experiences to truly recognize what I want and don't want in my future partner. Nobody is perfect, but I learned what I can live with and how to recognize whether the girl will be happy despite my shortcomings. I always established a strong friendly relationship from afar before I met anybody in person. I am happy because despite the failures, every girl I met in person (except one) was legit and did not want to scam me or use me. I accept that I have a difficult character, reason why many times I brought the worst of the girl when we finally met in person ... but I learned my lessons and now I am happily involved with the girl I want to marry and create a family with. Fortunately she thinks the same as I do. Jonhill: I agree with you regarding the attitude of some men. Some of them are on their high horse crying foul when a girl does not behave as they want, but they do not see how damaging their attitude is to every serious man out there. A few years ago I saw a site where women posted the pictures and letters of such men, calling them "sex tourists" and advising every other FSU woman not to date these men. If I remembered the URL I would publish it here, but I do not remember now. I had a short-term relationship with a Ukrainian woman who I liked very much, but she left me because she was still in love with an a-hole from Reno-Nevada who broke her heart. The guy went to the Ukraine to see her twice until he slept with her. After that trip, he never called her again ... after so many emails from the girl, the guy told her that he had a girlfriend in the US. Despite knowing how he used her, this girl would go back to this guy in a heartbeat, if he asked her to again. If we are going to judge the behavior of some FSU women, we need to also judge the questionable behavior of some Western men. Many Western men use FSU women for their own pleasure. baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2009 2:39:04 PM   FSU, I didn't mean that all trips are wastes of time. You are the example who has used his experiences to become better prepared for the next time, etc. etc. And you have had your introspection and determined what are the likes and dislikes about yourself and how it affected some of your previous attempts; you have done something about that and now you are happy. That is great. I do see some guys who just spin their wheels; usually always blaming the women for their failures at a relationship. You did corroborate my thinking in that you established a correspondence with these ladies you met prior to meeting them; not meeting them blind. To me that seems to be a waste of time and money since as you and I did, you can get to know them some from afar and then meet with them. And yes since the real women are serious in their search and correspond with millions of men, and since very few of them actually get on a plane and come visit, I can see how some of the bad apples can spoil it for the others. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2009 8:00:52 PM   @jonhill, Thanks for your post. I'm in Russia at the moment, and have had a couple of long talks with a Russian woman who has dated American men (at least one long term), worked as an agency interpreter, and met (as a travel aide) many American men looking for women in Russia and Ukraine. Maybe I'll start a thread, based on these conversations. By now, most of us understand that a distressingly large percentage of women in on the web sites and at the socials have rotten intentions of one kind or another. The estimate of my Russian source is very high (> 90%). But as jon's post observed, there are plenty of disgusting men on the other side. I'm beginning to believe that the ugly, cynical, exploitation that we see in (a big portion) the FSU "matchmaking industry"... is a ghastly reflection of ugly, immature, exploitative behavior by (a big portion of) the foreign men who make up the other side of this coin. And while I like to think that I'm better than average (probably, most of us do), I don't completely exempt myself. Apologies to non-Americans who are clients of this dating industry, if it seems that I'm sweeping you in with men like me from the U.S.A. - although human nature being what it is, perhaps men from other countries are almost as bad. gecko Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2009 9:11:42 PM   i highly doubt a big portion of men are traveling half way around the world to exploit people. do you really believe that? most guys i meet from usa are decent enough. some may lack some social graces and charm but to call them exploitive is outrageous. the marriage agency business sucks because you don't even know who you are writing to. If a person traveled thousands of miles just to see me, i wouldn't consider this person an exploiter. i would consider them the opposite of an exploiter. durak, when has anybody traveled thousands of miles to see you? Maxirat Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/1/2009 3:42:52 AM   My wife started the dating game by - let’s say - unintended - her daughter and mama put her on 2 sites without her even knowing. Anyway - she said it was terrible opening emails - the men from South America were the worst - 1st pic was "u know what" !!!!! So - yes there has always been 2 sides to this international dating game/service. Labelling Americans worse than others is not correct - some men will do it with intent for short term sex gain and others will do it for long term gain and act like men and not boys with overflowing testies !!! I have seen these girls in internet cafes - in Russia and Ukraine - they are milking the Dating industry all they can alot of them. They are getting all the attention they want from local lads - don't worry, these guys are very smart looking - leave us Westies for dead in looks. figgis Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/1/2009 8:00:38 AM   It is a fair comment to say that if you are looking for a serious relationship or a woman on one of the many sites then you should be prepared to come across a lot of women who will bluff you and basicly tell you what you want to hear. It is also fair comment to take some blame if you get worked over by these women. Howether in my opinion if a man enters into one of these agencies with the best intentions and spends his money and gets worked over by the agency and the girl then he should not have to be made to feel like it was his fault. There are 1000s of these agencies and the choice is massive for men. It is a guaranteed money spinner for the agencies and a vast majority of girls end up being no more than puppets for them. I got well and truely worked over by a certain agency and a girl in particular. Her attitude to me was she would not give up being a member of the agencies that she was at until we are married. I had always been kind giving and helpful to this girl, when i was online with her i was never suggestive or perverse in any conversation with her. I can not understand the contempt that some of these women have for the genuine guys that come to these agencies. It is so easy to say that a lot of men come to Ukraine and Russia wanting sex and it is true i would say that a lot of men do think this and they are not very good at understanding that women are not there to be talked dirty to. The real truth behind it is that a huge amount of women are not interested in meeting the man of their dreams and it is no more than a way of making money to them and that is the sad thing about it. I said to this girl how serious do you think i am i have spoken to you for 8 months flown to your country to meet you i have telephoned you bought you expensive gifts i have been totaly loyal in my talking with you and you only, she says she loves me wants to be married to me etc etc and then says when we are married i will leave my agencies. That to me is where the dating industry is. It is not the men that are the problem it is the idiot women and the agencies that show utter contempt for western men. FSULover Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/1/2009 9:33:38 AM   Gecko: There are some men (a big number, but I don't know how it compares in percentages) from the west who make it a habit to go to FSU countries (and even Thailand and Philippines) with the sole purpose of having sex with as many women as possible, or with young women they cannot get in their own country. The farther from home (thousands upon thousands of miles), the better because they do not want to ruin their reputation at home. Therefore, the fact that they are traveling half-way around the world does not make them angels. That is their goal: exploit locals who can easily be coerced into having sex with them under false pretenses (some of these men attempt prostitution, but they prefer if they can get what they want without having to explicitly pay for it). Sex tourism is a big business in the west, even if it is not highly publicized (for obvious reasons). Human trafficking (of young girls) is another big business, and also kept under wraps in most places. I can give you web links with guides regarding what to do for sex in most countries, and with users who like to brag about their escapades in these cities and countries around the world. A great number of men from the west are decent, but among them there are also men who like to visit some girls they have no serious interest in, only because they are very sure that they will get some booty. It happens all the time (even with decent men), reason why many of the good women grow highly disappointed after their first experience on Internet matchmaking. For some of the serial FSU scammers the thought process works like this: "you men are going to try to use me because I am ... (desperate, naive, poor, <place your adjetive here>), so I take advantage of you before you take advantage of me. Others are just professional scammers who have understood the big profits that can be made from gullible western men who do not know what to do with their money. Muzzy Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/1/2009 1:35:57 PM   @ Durak - Thanks for your reply :) I'd like to hear more about your experience. There's a lot of truth in everyone's perspective. The impression I'm getting is that one of the biggest challenges is differentiating between intelligent discernment and vague generalisation. The more I find it important to carefully vet potentials, I'm sure that too much scepticism could lead me to turn down 'woman of the century' for something minor. I don't know about anyone else, but I intend to ensure that I always judge each potential contact on her individual merits. Simply put, these are human beings, each with their own motivation, each individual, which I will do well to remember. Decent people, wether western men or eastern women, have to stand out among undesirable look-alikes. For our part, this actually makes things better for us. Surely we have the brains and strength of character to weed out the genuine seekers of love. And how do we look attractive to them? Simple, just remain a decent, genuine person, and try not to send pictures of your 'junk' as an opening address!! This seems to be enough to make us stand out. I feel much better :) Texasdude Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/6/2009 10:08:50 PM   I am a veteran of letter writing and flower sending. I have found the following. Letter writing is a good way to start but limit it to about 3 months. That is enough time to see enough photos and to see if the girl is a possible match. Go see her. If you keep writing after 3 months, you really are not going to find out that much more. I've sent many flowers and letters to girls but it was overkill. Go meet her as soon as possible. As to having plan A, B and C. It is a good strategy but it was hard for me because you can get very attached to other girls and it makes it hard to be committed to only one. For fun, go see as many as possible, but for wife material I would go for only one. Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > One more thing...
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