I have a unique situation and I just don't know enough about the "mechanics" of this process on the other side(Ukraine) of this process.
Begining of Oct. I 1st stumbled across another Introduction site & was my 1st exposure to this whole concept. This site charges substantial sums of $ for everything. I mean everything. Carrying on an intense correspondence w/ just 1 woman can add up to several hundred $ a month w/ pics & all. Thru this site I met a woman from Nikolaev, Ukraine I have been corresponding with steadily since 10/9. This woman means a great deal to me. After multiple frustrations w/ this site I began to do some research, finally settling at this site hoping to make it my new home. Problem is I am dealing w/ a world & structure foreign to me.
This woman registered at an agency near her home. I have done some probing & she knows little of the overall process other than she checks everyday for mail from me & then gives her reply either in person or by phone call. She has gotten to know the people at her local agency well even becoming friends w/ the interpreter. Now this agency interpreter naturally translates all my letters.
Now I am a businessman & I certainly go out of my way to anger a steady revenue stream (other site). We have families to feed. So I am wary of causing her (my friend) any trouble & threaten our connection. Then again I may be paranoid & actually there is no reason to be concerned, it's all 1 big happy family & the local agencies are accustomed to women switching from 1 affiliation to the other. Maybe it happens every day. But I am keenly aware that my letters are being read & translated by someone who is paid to do so & I send a lot of long letters. The cost has become so burdensome that it is threatening my ability to contact, maintain this relationship. ie...I desperately want to find some way to move her to your site.
This is my problem I am seeking an answer to. Any background you can give me on how all of this works would be deeply appreciated.
Why doesn't she just get her own email address and you two correspond using translation software? Or, if you don't want to use software, just find a private translation service online somewhere.
However, two points in the bigger picture....
1. The agency you are using has all of the typical marks of a scam agency--charging per letter, charging for photos being sent. I'm going to guess that you can't exchange contact information with her through your translated letters. Right? This lady has already means a great deal to you. Before you fall completely in love, you better make sure she is real, and the whole thing isn't just an agency scam.
2. If the cost of several hundred dollars a month is threatening your ability to maintain the relationship, you may want to reconsider this whole process. If you do want to marry this lady, you will have to make at least one trip to Nikolaev (probably more), sponsor her for a fiance visa, pay for her to fly to your country, and support her in your country while she learns English and figures out what kind of work she can do. All of that will cost a lot more than a few hundred dollars a month.
Why? The online translators are pretty good. Personally I bought the second to latest version of Promt off of Ebay. You can do this yourself.
"I'm still paying for every letter"
Why? Stop, now! Get her personal email and communicate directly. Do you have her address? Send her a letter. You are getting scammed big time. Big red flag.
"Just wish that little guy back there would quit saying; "Sucker!!!"
The little guy knows what he's talking about.
"Now this agency interpreter naturally translates all my letters."
How do you know what the translator is translating? How do you know the translator is not changing what the lady is writing. How do you know the lady is real?
She can move on her own. There is no secret to this. There is no law that says she has to be on this site. Have her join up with Elenas Models. she can do that all on her own.
If she will not or gives excuses, the Supe Big Red Flag. You are being scammed is she gives some story about not being able to move. Drop her and move away. But, it's your dime and the agency appreciates your donation. They need you to live.
The story is; she is a kindergarten teacher (tutor(, 8 year old son & they live with her pensioned mother in mom's flat. I've gotten enough day to day info on her class (group) that either she is a teacher or knows an awful lot about being one. I have her address & phone #. I have called & spoken to mom (if you want to call it that), spoken to her & heard son in background. We're talking mom's pensioner flat, Elena (my interest) & son are living in mom's home. There is no internet access in the flat. I have pics of the flat, impromptu pic of son sitting in grandmas lap, cooking dinner, opening couple presents on son's bday. Even a crappy pic w/ son sitting in her lap in some photo booth kind of shot. One pic Elena is standing in front of a hearth w/ a large mirrior over it & in reflection I can see the entire flat just as she's described it.I know the days of her sons dance class, roughly where it is & on those days she's later getting home. In the pic of Kazim (son) sitting in grandmas lap I can see their computer & it is a old piece of %$#@ w/ no cable to it other than power cord.
End of Sept. she registered at her agency after an ad from Hunama (umbrella corp for Army of Brides, Brides In Bikinis etc....) did her photo shoot etc... She checks daily w/ her agency to see if a letter is in & often calls in her reply. All the timing has fit also. I have asked some ?s and what I SEEM to sense here is a simplicity. Just knowing & doing enough to make it work for her. Pretty much having her hands full otherwise. A somewhat quiet, reserved, careful woman. I know her surname, her 2 brothers names. I have googled & scam searched it all. Checked multiple agencies & she only shows up on AoB & BiB. Her letters have a simple sincere clarity to them if that makes sense. We talk about our lives etc... NEVER a mention of $ of any type. I tell you what, if this is an agency generated letters somebody is very, very good. I am intelligent & can write & I couldn't pull off something like this w/ so many letters over a period of time w/out a slip up. It actually takes a very sophisticated person to long term generate this sincere simplicity & not let slip an out of place word, turn of phrase, minor detail etc....
Only thing I know to do now is break connection for a week or so & try to glean something from her reaction. This sucks. Like I said, if this is a scam somebody is very, very good & has gone thru an awful lot of trouble over 1 letter writer.
It's hard to conceive that every single profile on AoB is a scammer but you guys would know better. That's why I'm here begging info & I value your input. If she is a scam I would have learned a hard lesson & really the only $ gotten from me is the cost of the correspondence. Couple hundred bucks for a good lesson. I am sold on this whole "process" eventually working for me & if that's the price I had to pay for getting a little wiser, finding the right place & hopefully eventually find someone that makes my life bright again.... I can live w/ that.
PS- I do have bookmarked the site page of a recommended, reputable investigation agency that will do some basic background verification(employment, home address, marital status etc...) for a reasonable fee considering what's at stake. I would/will avail myself of it before I ever invested any real sum of $ to fly there etc....
OK, all sounds OK. But it is not OK, you are still giving hundreds of dollars to the agency. Mention this to her; if she is as trifty as she sounds (and should be as most FWU women are) then she ought to be considerate of doing something different.
If you are convinced she could be a keeper, then maybe do less letter writing and more phone calls. Can she go to an Internet Cafe in town? Does a girlfriend have Skype on their computer at home?
If you are still convinced, then tell her that you are attracted to her and that you suggest that you fly over to meet. This ought to be the common goal, to meet in person. Any lady who wants to just correspond is either not that serious or works for the agency (the agency keeps most but she also gets paid a small sum to keep you writing letters).
I probably know of your detective person and that would be a great way to go.
Her response after my initial bungled, suprise phone call that went so badly. I mentioned calling on a planned weekend. Dear, I will be glad to talk to you at the weekends, thank you for your care and understanding a lot! I will try my best to have a conversation with you but not only HELLO, YES. I am learning))))"
Response to my explanation I am about a middle income person, house is nice not a palace, Trying to feel things out-"You told me everything about you, your house, your family, I told you what are my dreams and expectations. Donít worry about that anymore, they say it is better live in a hut but with a beloved than in a palace. I am the one who prefers to live in a hut but with the people I love, palace as it is canít make me happy"
And then to wish I was rich man w/ airplane but was not. Wish could just snap my fingers & be there - Bill, I donít need airplanes, that is not the most important in life I think. A piece of metal even if it is very helpful doesnít give me peopleís warmth. And that is what I am dreaming about. How much I understand you when you say that you want to snap your fingers and be close to me at the moment. This idea has come into my head lots of times. World is only one but the distance separates those who want to be together. But we need to be patient. I think that when you want something so much God will definitely give it to you, just follow his directions, listen to your heart and donít worry about that. So the chance will come by itself, so I am happy with that thought.
I sent her a letter to say I was thinking of being (flying) there sometime just after 1st of year. Her response was ecstatic; "When could this be?! I would be so happy to introduce you to mother & Kazim! This thought makes me very happy!"
See what I mean?? If it's a scammer she is very good!
Sounds fine but you NEED to remove the agency from the picture.
Write her a long letter and translate it yourself or use a local translation service. Send that to her and ask her to write a letter back to you. Tell her she can write in her language and you will have it translated at your end.
If she will not do this, then I don't think that is good. Unless you're willing to have the agency in your bedroom.
How long have you been corresponding? I went to visit my RW after three months of corespondence. Don't wait too long to do that. Are you financially ready to go?
We've been corresponding near daily (few times twice) since Oct. 9th. Last Thursday was Thanksgiving & I've held off since then, using the holiday as a buffer to try & make a decision once & for all whether to listen to that "Sucker" voice or move ahead. In or Out.
Yeah, I agree about the agency issue. That's why I came here seeking advice. Either direct comunique or over to Fiance.com. I'm working on it. ;)
I can't possibly make the trip until after the 1st of year, likely February. Yeah, I'm liable to be a Feb. in Ukraine also & I'm a South Texas boy! Idea doesn't exactly appeal to me but if I get all my ducks in a row I'm not going to push off just waiting for warmer weather. My sister has an adopted daughter from Latvia whose wanting to see her homeland & we have spoke about making a joint trip. Not going to put all my eggs in that basket though. Lena has been interested in my daughters as well & when I told her my oldest (23, newly married w/ baby) is extremely protective of her father & very wary, Lena sent along a sweet comforting note to her in 1 of my letters & that rocked me. My daughters opinion is very important to me.
I'm the type that once I get dressed up for a party I'm ready to GO! But holidays, family etc... just makes impossible at moment & the need for delay has had me frustrated. Lena is the calmer, steadier type & gives occasional reassurance to be patient - the time will come as you saw in that 1 quote. But when I mentioned the conversations w/ my sister about that trip she shot thru the roof w/ excitement. She is perfectly aware of my plans & says things like she will be happy when I can sit at the dinner table w/ them all, we will walk & talk etc...
I have also read posts w/ concern or warnings about culture shocks etc... Fortunately I live in a little coastal, tourism based town that is an odd bubble vs. the rest of the world. During summer months we have about 70 students from Ukraine, Romanian etc... colleges come & work w/ housing & transpo provided. In this 1 little town we have a Vietnamese wife, an Argentinian & a Thai family that owns a little restaurant. It's a very eclectic, accepting little town. A friend of mine that went on a Thailand missions trip w/ me is very good at teaching English as a 2nd language. She was the speech impediment counselor for the schools until retirement.
I haven't been sitting still. I've been doing my homework even subscribing to Ukraine news agencies. And the news isn't all that cheery. I know Kazim's favorite colors, what he reads, what level he's at in dance classes...
Thanks baron for your attentiveness
bgpa, if you made a mistake it was to jump into this relationship too quickly considering the cost
of letters/pics/and all. I don't really care about which site is used or whether it is pay per letter as long as you have a good plan in place. I agree with baron about meeting girl within 3 months of communication. I do know of AOB's scammer rep but I have never used them. I would be more concerned about the city of Nikolaev and the agencies reputation there..even from guys living there. Also you are a bit stuck because this girl's english I would think is poor. Can I ask you why in 3 weeks time you are already thinking about this girl being in your hometown? Last girl I was seeing, we never spoke on phone before we met and even used her agency(she did not have a profile there)for translations(set price for unlimited letters).
I will admit you spending so much $$$$ does make for possibility you being used, not as being scammed, since you did get something in return...some lovely words, some pics and some hope.......what does Olga call it.....entertainment?
the sooner you can separate the woman from the agency the better it will be. It would be less expensive for you to set up internet in her home than to continue with the pay per crap. I am going in February at that point my lady and I will have had 5 months letter writing and Skype and I am looking forward to it. Why should it matter what time of year if you are truly into this woman.
We've corresponded almost daily for just over 7 weeks now. Somewhere into the 3rd week when I realized I was really hanging onto receiving the next letter from this lady that I asked if she had a phone # I could call. An actual home I could call into at an off hour (7:30PM their time) & talk to someone. AoB was my 1st exposure, I've done homework since checking out Anastasia, Natasia, Ellen's etc... before finally settling here. So ok, my 1st 1 was a bad deal, I accept that. It was actually a link from a US dating site that I had been beating my head against the wall with for months that took me to AoB. It was stumbling onto that site that opened my eyes to this whole process from the beginning. Then I did some research on the cultures etc... So ok, if your more or less "born" into something, you don't realize just how bad you got it until you see the rest of the "world". My bad, I admit it. I've had 450 letters come in my Inbox over there & some of the scammers stick out like red flags. 19 - 28 year old sultry knock outs in string bikinis pledging their undying love to me get a good laugh. But I always have a hard time w/ absolutes. Maybe every single one of the women registered on that site are scammers indeed. Hard to imagine though. Story I have is she made a decision & registered at an agency close to where she lives. Her profile had been up just 2 weeks when we "met". And what I glean from the conversation is checking in, getting her letters & calling in her responses are all she knows of the process herself. She trams to work. Works long hours, picks up son from school & either starts dinner or they go to dance class 1st. About all she has time for.
I'm not arguing your points at all. I asked for your advice & am wiser for it. I like the odds just enough that this might be real to keep going for now. Just a lot more measured pace. Ignorant in beginning I wrote letters like a little devil. Then after a couple weeks it really starts to take a dent out the ol' bank account & you go; this aint good. So now I'm here. And yes, I MUST get her away from AoB. I'm taking some steps on that. (think they read here???)
As far as why am I already considering flying out? #1 - no matter what it can't be before February for me & there is still relationship steps to take. Plus the bravado of knowing there's still time to realize an error. If I were leaving tomorrow I would be a lot more queazy. #2. - I AM starting to feel deeply for whoever is writing these letters (maybe I'll wind up marrying the interpreter actually writing;) & it's either carry on correspondence forever or get over there for myself. Actually I might employ the services of the investigator in Dec. or Jan. just for my peace of mind.
Thanks All. Glad to hear ANY advice!
Maybe there is a misunderstanding about one thing, to me an agency is the direct contact girl has in her homecity and other is website marriage agencies/dating agencies or whatever they are called.
No use trying to separate AOB from the girl, that is NOT your problem. It is her homecity agency that is making the money and the girl is the cashcow. Assuming girl's english is poor, I doubt you can get her away from agency....why???...Does girl have enough time to go to internet cafe? Some guys here speak it is no problem but I bet they do not take bus to the neighborhood internet cafe to write their letters......so why expect the girl to?
Girl I was seeing also worked long hours, had a 2 yr old and supported the family. We used an agency for our letters, all she had to do is write them on a piece of paper and phone them in or get my letter through phone call or hand written to her, to see pics she would have to go to agency.
This agency is in odessa.
You are describing exactly my dilemma. And also why I had not been bolder in trying to redirect her thru my letters. For one thing she doesn't seem aware of all the machinations beyond having registered at this agency, done her photos & us swapping mail. Why would she. I had to do a bit of web research after a time myself in order to understand the options. I'm smart enough to know that some small agency near her is getting a revenue stream thru this. She (Lena) has remarked about how she & her interpreter talk often when she picks up my letters. That made my ears perk up. What & I'm going to explain in 1 of my letters how I want her to move away from this to here (Fiance.com) where the interpreter is cut out??? Lena picks up my letters on the way home & apparently the agency stays open late because she calls her replies in often just before going to sleep. She has the brief time to devote to it after the meal is done, 8 year old son is tended to & in bed asleep.
If she is the real thing I'm crazy enough to make it work somehow if it really is the best option for her. She has a lot more on her "plate" than I do. I'm not coming at this completely naive. I've held out many years after my divorce passing up opportunities because I was waiting for a certain, intangible something that never came across from any woman here (US) or any of the other bikini photo profiles or letters I've received here or at AoB. Whoever is writing has got that "it" factor that strikes that 1 chord with me.
So I take all the good advice I've gotten here, process it & just make the very best decisions I can as I go. If it's real I'm not going to lose it cheaply.
"It's hard to conceive that every single profile on AoB is a scammer"
Its probably true that no major site is 100% scammers/scam-agencies but the proportion varies enormously. Anastasia for example is reconned to have (based on my own experience and that of others here) at least an 80% non-genuine ratio and thats being conservative, AoB would appear to be at least as bad if not worse.
Youve obviously done your homework and read up on how scammer operate so only you can make the judgment. Your basically right that there are no absolutes and no cast iron rules in this game. She seems genuine based on what youve told us but dont underestimate the sophistication of some of these scammers and how detailed the "legend" that they can create, be emotionally prepared for the worst. If you go to visit her have a contingency plan e.g. contact details of other girls and agencies.
And ... just thought I would give you an insight into the economics involved.
I small local agency may well have a very small turnover cash wise: a one or two person provincial city agency might be turning over as little as $500-$1000 a month. Most of these small agencies make most of their money as affiliates to the big portal sites like Anastasia, GWGlobe AoB (and of course fiance.com) etc. They generally get around $2 per letter so that $4 for a letter and a reply.
The point being that your $4 dollars a day is possibly quite significant to the finances of the ladies agency, so they will be very keen to keep her using their services ...
Well that makes things rather bleak. Even my back door plan of an investigator won't help. If this IS a working woman just supplementing her income.......what a mess. That would have to be the case here, having so many pics (the crappy personal kind) of all 3 (grandma, son, Elena) in different activities around the flat.
Like I said...what a mess.