Well the thing is, don't jump to conclusion - just be prepared for the various possible outcomes. You could do worse than just go to see her and treat it as a learning experience, if she turns out to be genuine then its a nice bonus.
Okay, bgpa here is some of the scoop on AOB. This organization is set-up in a matrix fashion. I have used them three times. But you have to make sure the girl is real and interested before you start spending money. Also, corresponding through email is nearly worthless with this organization. There are some stolen profiles on this website. Also, there are a few that are not real. Consequently, it takes the use of two organizations to do a kind of crosscheck. The alternative is to simply fly to Ukraine and ask to meet a few girls.
The first girl I met, I corresponded on the telephone and had her use a translator in her hometown that was independent of the agency and would only translate a written letter delivered to her office. One time, when I spoke with her on the telephone, she asked me if she could use the agency with her profile. "If you send me a letter, they will read it over the telephone and then I can tell them what to write back. Your translator makes me bring a letter to her office and that is more difficult." I actually met this girl and she asked the translator why guys stopped writing her. No joke! She actually asked my translator this question and on the agency's website she was listed as their second most popular girl. She simply did not realize that they did not need to call her anymore as they already knew about her family, work, life, etc...
Second girl was a nice girl. AOB wanted to make sure I was a client first. But otherwise, no problem. We weren't a match. But she was a nice girl.
Third girl, I contacted via telephone. I did not get the telephone number from AOB and they would not give me the telephone number. As for the girl, I don't know how serious she is. As for the agency she is listed with, they expand upon her letters. Basically, writing a letter through AOB is just good enough for transmitting a message. The problem is that the letter you receive is at best a mixture of pure fiction and some truth.
One thing I can tell you, if you are getting a letter every day, then you are primarily corresponding with a translator and not your lady. No girl in Ukraine will write a guy they have never met every day! None! Think about it? It takes way too much time.
The bottom line is that it is extremely difficult to develop a relationship with any girl if she is not listed with a good agency. Based on what you wrote, your letters are nearly worthless. As for the pictures sent you, the girl may not even know which pictures were sent.
Have her write you through an internet cafe. They are cheap and all over the place. Tell her to write you in Russian and then get a translator in America. Not a marriage agency! An independent translator that just does translation.
Good info - Thanks. When I said writing everyday, I might have come close occasionally but actually is me writing letter, receiving hers then replyin in a steady, non-stop stream. That is a more accurate portrayal. I remarked once how a couple of her letters seemed rather brief or "clipped". She replied that getting her son home, tended to, fed, in bed etc.. she could not get to writing letters until it was very late, she was sorry she was having trouble finding the time. Forgot the exact wording except that it was completely non-confrontational simple; Hey, I'm crowded for time here! It was so sweet & obvious I felt like an ass. I've raised kids & haven't forgotten having zero spare time. A US woman would have cried foul & ripped my head off.;)
Even the timings are correct. Ukraine is 8+ hours from me & all the letters pop up in the right time bracket = written late, go through process, then posted. She clearly describes every picture she sends. Last one is a grainy, 8 year old pic that shows a cousin w/ a goddaughter niece she is crazy about. She didn't hesitate to give me her phone # & I didn't pre-announce my call. I've looked for even the small things & they all fit. The ONE suspicion is AoB & their record & the fact that I am paying to write letters. Well there's also the fact that I am really getting emotionally invested here & the idea of all being a scam...
Your right about never truly knowing until I fly there. I am not impoverished but the entirety (cost) of that trip will mean garnering all my resources & the possibility of it being a gamble on zero is hard to take.
The balance being is if I knew for certain this woman was REAL, I'd gladly do it 10x if needed. The relationship has been that unique to me. And I grew up a professional drummer in Austin, TX, been married & have 2 daughter 14 months apart!
Nothing good comes easy!
PS- I have a well spoken, not gorgeous but very "cute attractive" doctor (yes, as in MD) that has written to me. That'll make you go - Whoa!! Says she has a comfortable living standard for where she lives, no need want to emigrate, just miserable living life without a quality life partner. Whoa!!
One thing you can do is send her a gift. You have her address, right?
Either FedEx something over or use an online service. Doesn't have to be something real fancy, flowers are best. Just a "Thinking of You" thought.
This way you can track it to her residence and then have her send you a picture of her with her gift (will be useful if you get to the visa process).
I have the used the following many times with excellent luck; they always tend to "super-size" the flowers (much to both of our delights)!
You just gotta get out of the agency; I know you know that. Other gift ideas are a souvenir calendar from your town; maybe a CD of your favorite music?
Pay for and send to her an international calling card that she can use to call you!
Thanks Baron. I'll send her an early Christmas gift. I have PLENTY of pictures of her. I have pics of her entire family. I have pics of her thru various stages of life. Got 1 today while in her late 20s in a sauna (dang those towels!:) Calling is not an issue. I have her phone # & an International plan on my cell phone. Timing is tricky because best time to call her is in middle of my day. It's nice to hear her voice but communication still a little choppy compared to letters.
Here (Fiance.com) is the best option for me. Just need to get her moved over & a phone call will have to be used for that.
Can't see agency interpreter being too wild about translating a letter giving Lena instructions on how to cut her out. That part of the translation might get garbled if ya know what I mean!
Really cute MD writing me still has me impressed.
On your train of thought baron, I used a florist in ukraine that was able to get girls phone number
and send it to me in a confirmation of delivery e-mail. I merely gave them the girls postal address......prices are pretty good also. They offer many different services such as phone cards, translations(letter and phone)ect.
It must be a living hell to wake up every morning & see the same misery in the mirror. I'm serious, I honestly pity you. Next will come the same vile; "you're a a fool, I don't need your...." on & on. Man you don't draw poison from a clean well. You say; 'im sorry to say and all my advice is probably useless'. 'i'm sorry' IS a good personal descript. 'all my advice is probably useless'- is somewhat correct but what you give could never be construed as advice. Advice is constructive input. Advice is asked for & welcome. Your negative, tearing others down to make self feel better is not constructive, asked for or welcome. What may be saddest of all is some belief of yours that your poison has any real value or impact at all. It is so blatant that it is laughable. Sad & very sick, yet still...laughable. The kind of personality disorder pathology, a sociopath narcissism that can really be quite disturbing to witness.
I would say; have a good day, but that is utterly impossible for you.
Next will another vile rant.
Danny my new business partner "Driftwood Arts" sent me a pm regarding your above post. Evidently you have cried like a little bitch to the moderators and he can't post some things.
That's your stock and trade though. Driftwood and I are going to import Driftwood from all over the world to the FSU for Craft night every where in the FSU. Sure beats your's and Mike00's car wash all to hell.
Well here's driftwoods message for you"
u could maik her a driftwood pikture fraim oar sum thing that wil maik her think off u .
just hope that she thinks good things off u and dosen 't go nutts . won gerl i new went head over heels wen her man gave her a home maid gift .
You know something has struck me. The Salongirls constantly spelled of as (off) just like you danny. Are you a cross dresser by chance?
Flowers sent to a member posting above will mean you are a pussy. Flowers sent to your lady means you are a man; which is what she wants to see.
You can also send gifts, nothing real special, but the purpose is to see if they do get delivered to her and her address. Have her take a photo of her with your gift. If she is a scammer, then this will start to uncover that.
Some of the gift agencies also offer to take a photo of your lady receiving your gift. Also another way to see if she is real.
Remember some people do not know how to conduct themselves using modern communication means and develop a relationship that way. Yes meeting will be required but it is not needed in the beginning.
I don't want to come off as being totally negative (and then be accused of having a personality disorder), but the truth is that when you are corresponding through an agency that is getting paid per letter, you really don't know anything about the reality of the girl or the correspondence. The agency controls everything and you have no idea what is real. (The exception might be a small agency that you have been to "on the ground," and where you have met the owners, translators, and the girls.)
I know girls who work as "translators", but they really write letters for agencies. They get paid per letter, so of course they will write frequently and realistically. Their goal is to get the men to bond with them and keep correspondence going. They also give out their telephone numbers to be available for men to call them (usually they have a separate "work" number). To say that the timing is correct, and that you make unannounced calls really means nothing. You are communicating with someone, it's just that she may not be the person that you think she is.
The photos that you are receiving could have been sent by the lady to some other guy and then saved by the agency for future use. Or they could have simply been stolen off the Russian/Ukrainian versions of Facebook and MySpace and used to create a fake profile. The point is that you just don't know.
Everything might be real, and you might have found a great lady. But, until you can get your lady separated from the pay-per-letter agency (and a non-reputable one at that), I would discourage you from thinking that you have "a relationship" and getting too involved emotionally.
Really, a relationship begins when you meet in person. And unfortunately, sometimes the scams really take off when you meet the lady in person. Even if the lady is real, the "spark" or connection might simply not be there when you meet in person. Even in the best case, there is always a considerable possibility of it all being a zero.
P.S. Regarding your doctor friend....I personally know several doctors in Ukraine, including the mother of my best friend, who is some sort of highly-regarded cardiac specialist. She makes about $200/month, and has anything but a comfortable living standard.
bgpa, best thing to do is ignore danny. Though the was a very eloquent way to tell him to shove it up his ass. The problem is you used words that were multi-syllabic and that becomes difficult for him.
As for his advice, it isn't probably useless, it is totally useless. Your are also the second person I know to brand him a narcissist.
Thanks for input. I came seeking personal experiences, advice born from it, CONSTRUCTIVE input of experiences good, bad & ugly. I regret (some) having flamed as I did. In my mind I see great merit in even constructive criticism (yours was advice not critical) given in tone of saving from a repeated mistake, making a balanced judgment etc... In other words to assist, not destructive for no apparent reason other than temperament.
I came asking for response & am grateful for all who have sought to help. I simply draw boundaries & choose not to allow destructiveness thru into my mind, my home, my family.
I understand what you are saying. However clever I think may instincts may be, there are people who spend their day in day out vocation learning & exploiting weaknesses. Honed w/ a good deal of experience. Anytime $ changes hands it is after just business at it's basic core so let the consumer be wary. I'm playing the odds. While striking gold w/ the 1st shovel full is not out of real of possibility, just hardly likely. :)
In my letter last night I clearly asked for her to ask if her agency was an affiliate of Fiance. No negative intent, I had been a faithful consumer (ie...they had a good chunk of my $) I had just found a service that better fit my needs. We'll see what happens.
Ultimately anyone doing this must be prepared for that flight to provide the 1 on 1, face to face meeting. Sooner if feelings become strong. I've already been making initial plans. The holiday season being a delay.
Uh oh! Bad, Bad sign. I said that I had included in a letter to check w/ her agency about Fiance.com? Well here is the reply; 'Bill, about the site, the agency deleted it and I can’t read it, so we can communicate here, I hope it’s ok for you too.' Now doesn't that just suck! Wish I had not gone to ssuch expressed lengths to tell her if it was any serious complication, not to threaten our connection. I was very concerned about being cut off. That was a mistake. I have to quit thinking w/ a western consumers mind. The 1st impression has to be that it's an agency scam being carefully perpetuated. A smaller % could be just exactly as she says it is, as she has been plain, simple & completely honest about every other question I asked. I started swapping older pics w/ her to see how deep her reservoir would be & w/ this msg was a pic from about 13 years ago w/ a friend on the beach.
I had done an extensive search & found her profile on only 1. When I asked about it, I received this; "Frankly speaking I don t know what site you are speaking about, when I registered I didn t ask their names. What I do is get the letters and now when I come to the agency or telephone I ask if there are letters for me from you and that s all. I don t look who put an interest in me, or made his favorite am not too much in that. I don t have time for that and see no sense. I have found you there already or you found me and that is the most important for me. My agency doesn t show that to me too."
I think I can conclude that her agency is an extension of the Hanuma network (AoB, Brides in Bikins etc...) & not an 'open' agency. This is what I was concerned about. If I take her at face value; she made her decision, registered at the agency a friend recommended, did her photo shoot, picks up her correspondence then replies. Has not concerned herself w/ all the many "whatever elses" that may be out there & she has no understanding of. That would fit the personality I have been able to image after a lot of correspondence.
I know, I know...I understand what you're going to say! I'm going to develop some more relationships thru Fiance & when I finally do go, just have a lot more options. I'm not quite ready to shut this lady down. Admittedly I am a bit hooked on the drug of our correspondence, It's great! Just limit it a great deal & w/ a deep emotional buffer.
I agree with dansing regarding no gifts to women until you meet them face to face and see how it goes. Unless you meet her in life, it is not real. It's no different than meeting women through an American dating site and going out to see a local American woman.
And yes, avoiding becoming "hooked" deep emotionally on mere correspondence is a must, no doubt about it.
bgpa, I could have easily told you you were going down a dangerous path but you wanted to 'play the odds', if you want my opinion, go with what you think is right, plan to visit her anbd at that point you can determine if she is sincere or not, only way to know for sure. Certainly have backups.
I thought is was bad taste to try to move a girl to a 'cheaper' site for you. Made you look cheap and I am sure the interpreter/agency would have probably received less but it is the girl that is the important aspect not the site!!!
I agree with you. In totality, what i wrote; "There is a favor you could do me & if it is simple it would greatly expand our relationship. 1st I must make you & any concerned understand I am simply exploring options. I have been a good, faithful customer never breaking rules. I do not know how things are on your side. Here I am simply a paying consumer of services. If you could ask your agency if they are an affiliate of fiancé.com, where I am also a member? I do not intend to end my business w/ Aob, they have provided a faithful service. But it would expand options. If they(agency) are not, that is fine. If it is any difficulty for you in any way – it is not worth it. If there is any possibility at all of the questing leaving an improper impression – it is not worth it. Nothing in this world, especially a matter of convenience, would ever be worth risking my connection w/ you!"
It was long winded as hell for a simple request but I wanted to try avoid any hostility as it was interpreted et..down the line. Also try & not leave the cheap impression you spoke of.
Plainly put, the cost is building & putting a real crimp especially going into Christmas plus trying to save all I need to fly there soon. AoB reps have been downright snippy & I am just plain tired of depositing large sums of $ to line somebodies pockets that just think of me as a sucker.
One thing seems 1 sided. You read the profile, become interested in a lady, but ultimately all the burden is on the man. Come fly across the world to see me. If I approve then you may finance the visa process, any needs we have, fly us across the world to your home & I will be a good wife. Well I don't intend to be a bad husband. I give that effort myself. I guess that's a really bad attitude considering what I entered into from day 1. I guess I was just waiting to hear a little more effort in meeting 1/2 way in at least the correspondence issue. It's not like I've been cheap all this time, far from it. I just saw this as a way to drastically improve things. My bad.
bgpa, I certainly got the impression you were going 'on the cheap' from your letter. These agencies know all the different sites already and probably choose one base on $$$$ such as AOB or Anastasia(pay per letters). I don't know how 'real' the girl is because she relies on her agency so much, just as one I write to( from previous post) only difference is my girl is not influenced by agency( she has no profile).
You need to get her phone number and contact this girl away from agency to see if she is really interested in you( get her cell number in AOB phone call). And get a separate entity for interpreting a phone call.
Got to admit is does not look good. Since the correspondence is crimping you, maybe you can write girl and tell her that during holiday season you are so busy you are not able to communicate regularly but afterward will write regularly. I usually build up amount of letters from beginning,
from little to a lot....no way to start with a lot then work down......
Beemer offers some good advice. If you're interested in this lady it's time to move her from the sphere of the agency influence. One thing I've learned about these ladys is they like to be around a take charge guy. At least the real ladies do. It's not real impressive to some ladies to see a guy who is willing to travel half way around the world only to let someone else handle everything for them when they arrive.
A lot of these ladies accept the brainwashing that they can't do this without the agency involvement. When you learn the agencys are there for one thing only, just like any other business, you will have a better feel for what's going on. Not that all agencys aren't trustworthy, but they are all in for one thing profit, just like any other business.