I do not believe the burden should be 100% on the man. If she will not put out some effort to make the relationship work now , today. Then I would have to wonder what the relationship would be if it all comes together and you two become husband and wife. Every thing should be a two way street.
If she will not separate herself from the agency I would be rather cautious and concerned as to her motive to this.
As far as being what others would call cheap, I think you can be frugal without being cheap. It will not allow a lot of room for error. But It does not mean it cannot be done. I started with the thought of having a budget and to this point things have gone swimmingly. Maybe I am fortunate or just lucky, don't know yet. I will tell you when I get back in February.
One thing I've learned about these lady's is they like to be around a take charge guy. This statement I have found to be completely true to this point. They like a man to be a man and and they will reciprocate with affection and commitment.
YES! Danskin you got 1 thing right. YOU ARE SORRY.
"and bgpa why feel sorry for me . i love looking in the mirror i love life every day for me is a new adventure surrounded by many "real" people who adore me "
That statement alone tells you danny has mental issues. Also he's always doing something extravagant. Lobster diving wow, what an adventure that is. Everyday is an adventure to you danny, because you don't know what personality you're going to wake up as. I really believe now Irina dumped you because of your mental problems not her's. Someone with a severe inferiority complex like danny has, always craving for attention, and telling others how important he is, how he is adored by those around him. When in reality he is a simple carpenter in life almost 40 never married, hates his position in life and creates this fantasy world on the web. He's more wealthy than us, he's an entrepneur extraordnaire. When questioned he goes to the youtube to prove he's with someone or doing something or been somewhere. When the ordinary guy would care less.Though danny will tell you he could care less how you feel about him, but he goes out of his way to prove that he does care how others feel about him. Perfect example danny sent me a copy of a letter to him telling danny how proud he was of him? For all I know that could have been dannys handwriting, but he had to show me how loved he was. Or sending a picture to me of his computer monitor showing Martins picture and Profile on Filipina eyes. Why? It's the square peg trying to fit in the round hole, the sad life of a misfit. I could almost feel sorry for him, but he's just a crude and rude bludger who spends his time insulting people and their ladies. Danny seek professional help. You really need it.
Don't become a statistic. He questions how many married people are here?
How many guys post their instant messaging with a woman on the forum? Only ones who want to show that they are actually communicating with a woman. I mean seriously why post that? Inferiority complex that's why. He's crying out to the crowd. He wants to fit in but can't.
God has cursed him with this personality disorder. Good luck Danny, you're going to need it.
I was coming at this in the perspective of legit business & an active consumer. I have been in charge of large companies in a competitive market where the basic principle of satisfy the customer or he will take his hard earned $ elsewhere. One of the very few true liberties & choices we have let (& always w/ free will choice comes responsibility) is who we choose to give our $. Be a good steward or always broke & miserable. If a plumber gouged you, never use him again. If a stores prices are sky high, you go to another one. Isn't it really just that simple. What, I'm to be a servant of AoB, never question, just keep sending $ & be obedient? 1/2 my anger is the snippy response at some questions. I don't respond well to have my leash jerked. What keeps them running is the foreign men being so ignorant to the 1st grifters rule; there's a mark (sucker) around every corner.
And I'm supposed to fund a visit there, the visa process & moving her here all while needlessly squandering $? The 'cheap' remark is just plain stupid. Why instead shouldn't a woman see a man that chooses to invest his $ wisely? A foolish man shops at a store where he is charged for each individual bean in the can when the store down the street sells the entire cans in bulk for a flat rate. Dan shops at the 1st store because in some twisted way he believes it proves him a man & not 'cheap' to continue to pay 10x as much paying by the bean, never considering a better value. Better to be silent & thought a fool rather than open your mouth & prove it beyond any doubt. Dan just feels the compulsion to prove himself a fool relentlessly
You know what would be refreshing? With these women knowing full well all the task that is ahead for the man, if in their bios; "I cook delicious dishes & will make home cozy' if instead it read something like: "Once I find the man that we agree we want to spend our lives together, I will set myself on breaking down every I CAN to see to it that we are together" Granted, there just is not as much she can do, that is not her fault. But just that sense of partnership from the beginning sure can be a great motivator. If the expectation from Day 1 is that all the burden falls on the man, how are you to expect there will be anything different on day 100, 300, 500 & on?
You should use copy and paste more, it improves your spelling. Actually you have described yourself up there danny boy.
I would wager I have more friends than you do danny. If you don't like me that really breaks my heart. I chose not to associate with liars and abusers. I don't live a fantasy life here and make outlandish claims. That was you. You have been caught in multiple lies. You have had issues with many members here.
I know you can't read well or comprehend too much in life. Must be a living hell. To walk around an ignorant troll. So you create this fantasy life. Robb Gerrard yep life long pals.
You use youtube constantly to prove the mundane. Who gives a rats ass.
See what pissed you off about me, is I caught you lying about being a pilot, you thought you had the wool pulled over everyone's eyes. You thought everyone was stupid, but you got caught.
Damn that tail registration on that Cessna, if it wasn't for the you would still be bullshitting people here.
No one checked it out. Easy enough done. Just stopped by the airport that afternoon, popped in the registration number and voila, Wilpena Pound owners. You got caught lying your ass off, now your trying to spin your lie. Danny the only zero you have is your IQ.
Avatar Idiot, Avatar, easy word except for a mongrel like you. The obsessed freak is you, sending constant PM's and emails.
Just quit giving Dan the attention he craves/needs so badly. If a baby is ignored & neglected they will act out if only to receive negative attention for their sense of security. Just ignore him as if he doesn't exist & he will eventually slink away.
In the dark black hole that is his life he come to his computer to tap out his garbage & you give him the sense of power he needs by replying & proving that his words actually have an impact on you. That they actually merit response as if he actually had something worthwhile to contribute to a meaningful conversation. He can't get it at work (if he actually can hold a real job) he certainly doesn't engage in any real social conversations. Just ignore him like the smart parent w/ a child who throws a temper tantrum in the store. They just walk off & leave to create a scene of their own & once the child realizes their audience is gone....
I see the username dansing & don't even waste the time or frustration.
Highly doubtful about danny, he's a trouble maker from way back. Though I will take your advice and we'll see how he continues to make stupid posts, insult new guys and lies about many other people in the forum.
The point exactly, he contributes nothing and has made claims that many Aussies have come to him for help, but not one has thanked him over the years. Amazing, helped hundreds and not one thanks. So I'll sit bach and see which guys next lady will become a whore. He's an expert he frequents Thailand way too often. I've been accused of buying a wife, hell he has to buy sex, maybe he can post that on Youtube for us.
Simply another Untruth. The above writes degrading PM's then Blocks the return PM. That's why I posted them in a blog. He will deny this it's his stock and trade.
The big deal about you danny, isn't much. Just real men do not tolerate their wives and girlfriends referred to as whores. I could care less about your life. Hell you insulted Irina on many occasions, which tells me you didn't have much of a relationship. I have too much respect for my wife to say some of the things here you said about Irina. You didn't respect Irina. As you acted and posted in this forum about her, you have more respect for the whores in Thailand. That's what burns your ass up. Many of us have more than you have ever achieved and you have nothing now but a miserable existance.
I'm going to follow the requests of a couple of people here on the forum. You'll screw up and trash another new guy like you did bgpa. You do it all the time. Doesn't mean I won't leave your paper trail in my blog. Then when you tell one of your idiotic lies all I will say is refer to the blog and you will see the truth in your own writing.
So to keep the forum clean I will post my blog the untruths and his degrading remarks about women. I'll keep the heat on you dungsing, I just won't be a part of ruining anymore for others here, I'll leave that up to you.
bgpa - remember leave it to beaver? father knows best? et al? The man was in charge and provided...
it is difficult to judge a person based on where they come from. some fall into a category of the 'typical' ... others do not. you cannot base your assessments against what others may say. yet others do have wisdom that the risks are great with the knowledge they have. many have experienced what you are going through. and for some it is pure speculation. as long as you separate yourself from fantasy and have a true understanding of the situation you can make a discernable decision. but to change tactics thinking it will reveal a truth about someone may backfire. be assured that many of these women are also innocent victims of agency scams. they approach this with much the same innocence and hopefullness that many a man does. it is a roll of the dice. many have said to separate the woman from the agency. it should be your very first objective if it can be done without insult or injury. once you establish a repoir with someone and you feel a real interest, it should be a mutual understanding that the two of you should find a way to communicate without the aid of an agency. and if clinging to an agency or stating that the 'agency' is the only way smells of --- it just stinks. a lady who is really interested in finding a man will do her best to prove it is the case. it may take time - though it should not - but it is important to find another means to communicate outside of an agency. and yes having a back up plan is okay. but a back up plan is not just having an agency number in mind to call if everything falls through. it is already 'knowing' someone who has interest.
I think you're right. Flipping around trying to come up w/ some clever tactic can easily backfire. If the lady is used to a consistent persona over a period of correspondence, then suddenly cagaey & clever.....
My last couple of letters will seem erratic or confusing possibly. Yeah, I'm ticked off at having portions of my personal correspondence deleted among other issues. But it's not like your talking to someone sitting beside you on the porch. There is this go between (translator) & where I might be normally explicit & say; "this pay for every letter, every photo frustrates me because there are so many better alternatives..." instead I fumbled around trying to get a point across.
In my last letter a couple of days ago I just came out & said this agency vagueness, secrecy, deleting portions of my personal letters....there was a great deal of difference between the 2 cultures for a consumer of services. I felt myself getting pissed so I just said let's drop the topic & went on to something else.
I understand what you were saying, many of these women are trapped in the cycle themselves. Likely having only whatever agency is near them or have somehow become aware of as any kind of access or experience. I doubt they have a Daters Consumer Reports or drive around town interviewing the different agencies. Riiiiggghhhttt, w/ little Timmy in tow! We both are sticking our necks out a long ways in this process. But I have to tell you as time has gone by, on the surface all the burden beyond getting her pictures & bio on the webb seems to be squarely on the man. At least in my case there has been a lot of good, deep correspondence but little talk of how we're going to pitch in together to make all this happen. I understand the gap in real resources. Let me put it this way; my car won't run. A buddy comes over w/ all his tools, knowledge & resources. He sets to the task. Tell you what, I'm right there handing tools & asking if there's anything I can do to help. I'm not curled up on couch yelling out to let meknow when it's done.
Lena has not replied in her normal time. If there is a break here it will really sting. But at the same time we have been corresponding back & forth for 3 months now. I may have screwed up but she also has the totality of all of that experience to draw from & form an image of me. If we hit a rough patch & she bails just from that without at least coming back to make sure...or talk things out a bit..... Guess it's better to know now than have something blow up in my face farther down the line. I never intended any litmus test game but all I can do now is wait & see if there will be a reply.
Really will sting if this does blow up buit...oh well!
I am new at this process and I might be off track but there is something that is starting to stand out as I have seen so may profiles. Many of these women (especially gorgeous young ones saying age of partner is unimportant) have spent what must be large % of income on photo shoots with photographers that obviously have skill at drawing the best out of a model. On many the lighting, backdrops, posing to accentuate qualities quality of film etc...is top notch. Some of them extensive enough, or maybe just pieces...and I start to think; wait a minute, these are the beginning of a model's portfolio!
Then I think back to recent history of a young, now fabulously wealthy blond tennis star, a recently "found" Eastern European woman now a supermodel.... If your a young lady in an EE country reading the magazines & dreaming of the lives of the UK & US models, then you see(young gorgeous lady) these "Intro" agencies to foreign men & you're just aching for that ONE break in life..... Hmmmm? Just gets me to wondering. (Hey if he's 55 & w/ resources, even bigger trophy if I'm on cover of a magazine)
What you need to remember is that this is a process being expected on an industrial scale. The agencies offer the prettiest girls free photo shoots in exchange for using those photos to trawl for pay-per-letter income. Because the agencies "bulk buy" the services of photographers and touch up artists they get very good deals.
Thanks devimaycare. That is good to know.
I have corresponded w/ 2 woman from AoB. ! I have talked about in lenghth & another that shares my profession & we swap occasional light humorous etc... exchanges about our work & have developed a bit of a friendship. Nothing scheduled or regular. (another reason I doubt ALL women on AoB are scammers. There are aspects of my work, people you have to deal w/ etc...the nuances of that just cannot be faked)
Anyway I have 'everyday" pictures of both & thankfully they are both naturally attractive & there was not much manipulation to their photos but some. Just enough to make me really start to look at profile photos & I have been surprised to realize just how much post-edit work is done. Airbrushing etc.... To me that meant $$$$, but now I can see how they would have all this set up production line, bulk, low wage style.
Oleg may be called many names & a lot I would agree with. But they guy has taken a market, built an industry to refine & make very profitable. As a businessman he knows what he's doing. Plus you have to consider he is taking dollars from abroad we foreign men willingly cough up & pumping it into the Ukraine. Girls make $, photogs & staff make $, Oleg's staff makes $ etc... & where do they spend their $?? Don't take me wrong - if the guy is a complete immoral scumbag, none of this excuses or grants absolution. I just doubt the seller of photography supplies, the grocer near the girls homes,the childcare workers the girls can afford now to pay, the family of his staff & on... may see in a different light.
Just maybe another side of a coin. Now for the girls in hunt of champagne & furs for life, Oleg or anybody else w/ a black heart seeking to line their pockets....what goes around, comes around & karma can be a real bitch!
A lot of the advice you have been given is well-meaning, but incorrect.
Firstly, the vast majority of women on the large sites, including AoB and Anastasia, are real and have serious intentions. You may have noticed an sudden, rapid increase in the number of young ladies on these sites....no, they are not scammers, the idea of western life has become popular, in the Ukraine particularly, and it is almost a "fad" amongst the younger women over there. The notion that 80% are fakes is ridiculous in the extreme.
Secondly, the fact that your lady is on a pay-per-letter site and does not want to move is normal. She clearly has extremely limited financial means, and I assume her English is poor. These girls would much rather stick to what they know. It is NOT a sign she is a scammer. Go with it, but the advice to meet her ASAP is very wise.... do it. I would be 99% sure she is not a scammer, but until you meet her you will never know if the match is good. No amount of letters will tell you if chemistry exists, although given your correspondance, the chances of that are certainly far greater than random.
Thirdly, the advice about the cost is sound. You will need between 30-50k to make this work, even if you are both completely in love... so do a reality check NOW!!!
Fourthly, no matter how amazingly beautiful you might think they look, do not question their reason for being single or lonely in the Ukraine. Yes, they all can get guys in Ukraine, but now that they have a very real alternative to living in a glorified hut with some drunk for the rest of their lives, an increasing number of fsu women want to take this alternative.
I am engaged to a Ukraine woman, now living with me in Australia. She was on both Anastasia (initially) and then on EM. Why the change..... "too many freaks on Anastasia"....AND SHE IS TALKING ABOUT THE GUYS!!!!!!! Oh yes, she worked as an interpreter and was a client at the same time. Some of the stories would make your hair stand on end... no, she really didn't want to have Skype-sex with some weirdo from Scotland after the first letter etc etc
She is well aware of scammers on Anastasia, but in her experience she guesstimates that number around 3-5%, and was not aware of ANY on EM's.
She does not know of any "free photo shoots" on Anastasia, but that of course does not mean they don't happen. But if any woman would be offered this, it would have been her.... she is now working as a model here in Melbourne, and her pics on Anastasia were ridiculously amazing.... but she paid for the Anastasia shoot (cheap though, had a friend etc etc) Pics on EM were just plain snaps, she didn't want to use the other pics.
You are absolutely 100% correct re the letters and calls you have received "adding up". No scammer has the time, or mental aptitude, to fake that over a long period.
To be honest, I would be amazed if this lady id a scammer.... that is not your issue. Your issue, now that you have met your perfect lady, is to go see her and find out if the connection is real.
Anyway, just my 2c worth. I occasionally visit this site, just to have a curious look. There are a lot of good and well-meaning guys here.... listen to their advice, but go on your gut instincts and your own logic first.
Wow, sorry to see more rubbish from that weird minority.... sad and pathetic. Where are the moderators???
"The notion that 80% are fakes is ridiculous in the extreme. " Thats not what were saying - were saying that 80% are NOT SERIOUS which is not the same thing. Oh granted most profiles have a real woman behind them (at least these days anyway) but only a small % are serious about marrying overseas and the % is especially low amongst the hot looking under 30s.