I have recently returned from my trip to Nikolaev last Saturday.
To cut things short and get to the point, I will briefly layout some facts. I had been using the RWglobe site to send my lady letters since the end of May. She is 19 and I am 24. We learned a lot about each other and made our meeting a very quick and painless icebreaker. She does not speak any
English, so she mentioned she will have her friend translate for us. I thought it was not gonna cost me. Ended up 15 USD per hour. I paid for all 3 of our meals/entertainment/taxi rides etc. I had a great time though expensive as I make a decent amount but at age 24... not anything compared to be able to support a family type of amount. Spent 4 afternoons with her and the translator. Because of snow, the last 2 nights we had a hard time finding things to do but had fun none the less.
So... My question now is trying to figure out if what I want to believe is real and worth perusing or other advice. See the 3rd night I sneaked a kiss on her cheek after the cab ride to my hotel and they left to there respective homes. 4th and finial night I gracefully approached her to give her a real kiss. Though she back away and signaled "Next time" pretty much. I had to leave in the morning to catch my flight so that was the last time we saw each other.
Some things to keep in mind... I made her laugh almost constantly, we hugged frequently, she really enjoyed my company. She goes to a university and that week happen to be exams week for her, and she also has a part time job after school which she asked for that week off to have time to spend with me. She also kept trying to find out what I like and dislike about the foods we tried and she was laughing as she said "how can I cook anything for you when you dont like anything?" I reply with "I only don't like 2 things and now this" (was trying chicken liver 1st time). She of course answers all my letters with every question answered and provides questions herself. We seem to have quite a bit of chemistry as well. So all in all it seemed very sincere and I did have a good time. I just don't know if I may be dealing with a girl that wants to have fun... or someone that wants to have an American guy in her lifer permanently.
I'm going to have to defer to some of the guys with some real experience here to interpret all the mixed signals you have here. The obvious thing though is you flew 1/2 way around the world, spent thousands of $s (2 or 3??) to give a 'never really met before' girl & her pal some great nights & you got a peck on the cheek in return. You're a bright lad, weigh the Pros & Cons.
When you were 16, for a $3 ticket to the football game you did just as well with Miss Bobbie Sue Rosie Cheeks or whoever. To me more blunt (&crass) for $500 you would have had a entire night of bliss with a gorgeous knockout pro & when you went for the kiss on the lips you wouldn't have gotten the exact same response. But still one heck of a memory & no mystery at all. (bit of sarcasm don't believe in the 'Pro Circuit myself) But I think you get my point.
I do not have near the personal experience some of the guys here have, but I have gained some insight from them. Just from reading I see this;
A nice young lady has been engaging you in some warm correspondence. (curious but not necessary, has she given you clear emotional sense of commitment or vague; 'I feel a warmth from you' etc... Do you know her mother's name, grandmother, bro's & sisses names??) This lady knows darn well how much effort & expense you put into this meeting. But she smoothly has all her ducks in a row & once their slides her interpreter/chaperon in on the ticket without raising too much of an eyebrow from you. Yes she had a blast (on your ticket) but she also knows a reality, in 4 days you are hopping back on a plane & going back to wherever you came from. Honestly, after reading your post & chewing on it a bit...I don't think you want to know my opinion. Has she mailed you since or did she have a great time & is waiting now to see how it's going to sit with you?
One thing I am beginning to notice about newbies like me is with all this being new, the language being different, trying to be decent fellows...what wide latitude we give these girls. I do not mean in any way a kind of 'put out factor'. But this is becoming less & less of a shared, 1/2 & 1/2 emotional commitment anymore. I had posted w/ a couple of guys on the same topic. ALL the burden is on the man & we are gobbling it up. The tone of a lot of the new girls SEEMS to be; 'here are my voluptuous pictures of my body. I will write you some pleasing letters but you must come see me soon & prove your value. THEN maybe I will consider allowing you to finance the visa process & fly me & my child to the US & you may set me up comfortably in your home.' That is an extreme to make a point but that seems to be an attitude crawling into this process. Is RWGlobe a pay per letter site?
Let me ask you this? If you had just gone thru this process but say, flew from NY to Arizona to meet this girl & just got home, wouldn't you be saying to yourself that something aint right? Not that you needed make out scenes but came away without any real sense of deep communication or emotional connection. This girl kept herself insulated every step of the way. I would be wondering too & am interested in what some of the other guys say.
Just my cheap input. I could be all wrong. You had a wonderful time. Do YOU feel that huge step closer to marriage after being with her???
this is just my opinion and it has nothing to do with women from anywhere.
you are 24? The only people who get married at twenty four are those that have known each other since hi-school or were college sweethearts. to be so young and looking in a foreign land for a bride is a red flag in itself. perhaps you need to do a self-assessment on your motives for wanting to meet and marry a girl from the Ukraine. I cannot possibly know why and I cannot criticise. But think about it. It is a hard road and takes a great deal of committment. And as you have already discovered, the dollars will add up.
Have to disagree with our Ralph here, there's nothing wrong with looking for a wife at 24. The only issue you might have is that a higher percentage of the fsu girls young enough to be interested in you, will not be serious.
Which brings me to your situation...
There's seems to be a good few red flags here mate. $15USD per hour is not cheap for an interpreter. Also, as far as I'm aware, all Uni students now get taught English alongside their chosen course. For someone at Uni to say they don't speak English well enough sounds a bit dodgy. Usually, even if their English is far from perfect, they want to get away from interpreters/agencies (after the nerves of the first meeting, at least) as soon as possible - IF they're genuine.
Who chose the interpreter? Also, what is her job? I'm sorry to say this, but it sounds like she might have been working for the agency. I posted on here a few months back about my trip to Nik - same story, lots of fun, got on well with the girl, all letters were genuine and personally written (answers to all my questions etc), but when I got there, she confessed to working for the agency. She was under instructions to bring their interpreter, but met me secretly without them, and she spoke English just fine (she was 20 and also went to the University. She said lots of girls there worked for agencies, of which there are 200 in Nikolaev)
Finally, no kiss after four dates? I'd say she's either not serious, or not into you. Obviously, this is all highly subjective based on little information, so take my advice with a pinch of salt. Just be careful.
I concur with muzzy. This has scam written all over it. Suggest a meeting with either no interpreter or one of your choosing and see if shes still interested.
Also, again concurring with muzzy, very few well educated women in ukraine under 25 don't speak any english so if your intent on finding one in this age group then there is really no need to bother with non-english speakers. Use a non-agency site like elenas models or club 10.
I am sure the interpreter would have given you a kiss; especially if you promised to return for another visit.
A 19 year old women of any country is only starting on her life journey; she has the whole world in front of her. She appreciates your generosity and will welcome more in the future; serious relations are not in her future at this time.
And what chemistry? Through your letter? This is no relationship, sri.
Baron, as you've told me a few times, you need to do a little research. The preponderance of single mothers in their 20s and early 30s on this site (and good old EM) is the first clue.
I've asked several such women over there about their situations, and the answer was almost unanimous - they wanted to get married and have kids too young (they say in hindsight). While it may be doomed in many circumstances, it isn't due to lack of desire for a serious relationship, even at such a young age.
Some might argue that things have changed, but one of the girls I'm writing to (as a friend only, I might add) is a 19 year old divorced single mother.
Baron, I'd be interested to know your fiance's take on these girls, as I've also spoken to girls in their late twenties who think they're way too young to be 'tied down' yet (in addition to others at the same age who think they're too old to get any local interest).
I think in most cases we hold the same opinion on a lot of things, including those mentioned here. I just have a personal dislike for blanket 'one size fits all' statements, such as assuming that because a girl is 19, that she, by default, isn't looking for a relationship. This is a sweeping generalisation, based on someone you've never met. I agree that It's far less likely that such a young girl would be so interested in marriage, but not impossible (I've met three so far).
I only mention the young mothers I know to illustrate the point that they entered into marriages willingly, in their teens, with a view to starting a family. It does happen, they are there - just few and far between.
But then, to listen to some posters on this forum, the exact same thing can be said of 'serious' women in general from FSU.
Regarding your RW I was just curious to know her opinion on a sensible age for a RW to get married and settle down. It just seems strange to me that there's such differing opinions among young girls over there - some are desperate to marry as soon as possible, others don't seem bothered at all. I'm trying to get a feel for the prevailing opinion over there on the subject. I get the feeling it's changed over the last decade or so, so I like to get opinions of women of different ages. I'm a researcher by nature.
Aneurysm, I see nothing wrong when a 19 years old girl wants to go out with a 24 yo guy. Another observation is - many of 17-19 yo girls get married to the same age guys to satisfy their interests in "grown up" life. However such marriages usually have no success. $15 for an interpreter means that she earns money together with her interpreter. If she studies at the University (probably the 2nd year student) she should have some knowledge in English, though she can study German instead. Anyway, basing on my experience I can tell you that after a day of communication with an interpreter you could spend other days understanding easily each other without the third party. My preliminary conclusion is - she had some fun with you and earned some money with her interpreter.
I can find out easily if she can speak English (I know how) if you tell me her contacts. If she does, she is a scammer.
ValleyMan101 Sovetskaya and all it's cafes, clubs and restaurants are crowded in spite of heavy snowfalls, cold weather and icy condition of roads. Hope you will spend great time in Nikolaev. If you have any questions or need any help in Nikolaev, feel free to ask me.
I spent roughly 500$ for the 4 nights with them. 60$ for 4 hrs time to translator, 40$ for dinner/dessert x3 people, 10$ taxi rides, 15$ entertainment (bowling, billiards, museums etc.)
155$ for 5 nights hotel, 892$ round trip flight, 180$ round trip taxi from Odessa – Nikolaev (wit English speaking driver).
"has she given you clear emotional sense of commitment or vague; 'I feel a warmth from you' etc... Do you know her mother's name, grandmother, bro's & sisses names??)"
Parents and grandparents or (babushkas?) No, her sisters name is Tatiyana (not sure on correct spelling of name). She has no brothers. Sense of warmth? Well I do not know if and specific words have stating to recognize this. But I “feel” we have a warm honest connection.
"Has she mailed you since or did she have a great time & is waiting now to see how it's going to sit with you?"
I am not sure how everything works on her end but it has always been replying to one another’s letter with one ourselves and has been like that since day one.
"Is RWGlobe a pay per letter site?"
"Do YOU feel that huge step closer to marriage after being with her???"
I was uneasy before I met her as I did not know 100% she was a real person. After spending the little time together that we had, I felt a much deeper connection. Just don’t know how much or if at all changed within her thoughts she has of me. And hopefully to solve a few problems with my spending areas… I plan to learn Russian (she is Russian and moved to Ukraine with family some time ago) to take out the middle man (translator). Plan to learn enough Russian to accomplish this before my next visit. Next visit I am planning to be for 2 weeks in April/May. Our B-days a week apart and plan to spend both with eachother. She is very pleased with this idea as well and mentions that this next time I will be able to meet her parents.
"you are 24? The only people who get married at twenty four are those that have known each other since hi-school or were college sweethearts."
Yes I am aware of my “odd” situation. I am an “odd” individual myself as I will briefly explain. I am a decent looking dude physically, my face is normal and I have heard my best feature is my Green alluring eyes. So I am not some weird hideous disfigurement, I weight at 165 lbs at 5’11”, Brown hair, White (Caucasian) and a Taurus. But socially and mentally is where I am set on a now a day’s more obscure way. I have many past experiences with family and friends that make me want to find a “real” championship material type of person and sadly… American girls are just snobby, stuck up, rude, and think they deserve the world and think nothing of the guy and most are not looking for commitment, or already in such a disastrous state and/or with child and needing support… I want to love and be loved without my wallet entering the equation. The nice ones or “the ones I like” only want to be friends and don’t want to risk losing that to become more serious with me (don’t want to take a chance). I have a personal preference to stay with my “type” of women meaning “white” like me. I happen to enjoy love hearing a women talk in Russian or in English with a Russian ascent. So I took a chance myself and looked beyond my small world I have grown up in, in search of another possibly that may be over the horizon for me. I don’t ever want to ask myself “what if”?
"Who chose the interpreter? Also, what is her job?"
I mentioned about the need of an interpreter some time ago as I knew she could not speak English. I spoke with her “kind of” on the phone a couple of times. I made her laugh but not sure what I said (trying to pronounce some Russian words). She was jobless when we first started our communication. Some time ago now I think around October she landed a job embroidering wedding dresses. And she is a fantastic painter (majors in her university) she has shown me pictures on her phone the work she has done with her paintings and wedding embroidery).
"Suggest a meeting with either no interpreter or one of your choosing and see if shes still interested."
Once I learn enough Russian then I will pitch this. I will do so over the phone in a conversation in Russian. If we are able to communicate this way, they there should be no argument. Trying out Rosetta stone.
"And what chemistry? Through your letter? This is no relationship, sri.
To each his own in this respect."
"Aneurysm, was Sovietska street empty? Alot of folks in McDonalds?"
That’s the main street where cars don’t go next to McDonalds yes? Well I usually meet her and the translator there after her classes around 2:00 pm. Cold all week but after/during snow… the place was full. Both inside and plenty of ppl outside playing and walking in snow.
"$15 for an interpreter means that she earns money together with her interpreter."
It may be a possibility, have to wait and see based on my comments (see above)
"If she studies at the University (probably the 2nd year student) she should have some knowledge in English, though she can study German instead."
She said after meeting with me, she is going to take up some English courses after she finishes up her current courses lined up. (she is Russian, most Ukrainian youngsters I met do indeed speak well enough English to have a conversation with. Not the same case for Russians)
"I can find out easily if she can speak English (I know how) if you tell me her contacts. If she does, she is a scammer."
Thanks for the offer… But I strongly believe she is truthful with her lack of English skills.
Ditto to Baron - no offense meant mate (or to you Baron, although sometimes I guess you'd never know it). I really do hope it works out well for you, but like I say, just be careful.
Also, let me know how using Rosetta goes? I've just started learning with Pimsluer. Thanks to my sieve-memory, it's not going quickly, but I have to say thats down to me. The course is actually really good.
For translating while over there I use a couple of apps on my iPhone. They work in different ways and have different strengths and weaknesses, but in combination they're pretty good.
For the record... Not offended. Did I come across as so? Just the way I communicate I guess, just trying to get to the point of the matter and getting questions answered correctly to the best of my knowing knowledge of the situation.
"Ever hear about the Ectaco handheld translators? "
Nope... Looking into these now. they seem interesting thus far. Pricey but interesting. Happen to know if it will work in a way lets say...
having dinner at a table, the device is on the table, 2 sets of mics/ear pieces for both people, 1 talks 1 language, device sends the msg to the other persons headset in their respective language and vice versa?
So the result is a seamless conversation between to people other then the respective amount of pauses it takes to finish the translated verbage to the receiving recipient. If so then this seems mighty handy.
But if it is lets say... you need to stop and reset or change the language in question each time you talk/write etc... could then feel like your dealing with a tape recorder and seems very goofy and awkward and almost like an interrogation. I don't know if something like that would be something that would appeal to me let alone her.
Thanks for the hopeful thoughts. All I can do is prepare the best I can to journey the path to which I feel is the right path for me to take and hope for the best. No matter how much thought and prep work I do as far as physically and mentally preparing my self for that which I do not want to even think about facing... I have to follow that part of me that leads me so... or possibly regret it down the road.
I have an Ectaco "iTravel TL-6" handheld translator I use for FSU dating... however these devices will only speak the text you enter by "typing" on their virtual keyboard. The speach is computer generated and sometimes funny to listen to. it is much easier to just type your message in English and then translat it to Russian and she then "reads" it... she would also do the same. It is very efficient and I use it instead of translators. Very much worth the $400 price tag. Oh! it does much, much more that just translate... great device.
I find the best way to communicate with non english speaker is to use a laptop with set of Cyrillic key overlays, you can get them on ebay for around $5 a set. Then use translation software or google translate.
"I want to love and be loved without my wallet entering the equation"
The poorer a country the more money will feature in a relationship. Ukraine is a poor country ... All this "I just want love and be loved" stuff on ladies profiles is bullshit for the vast majority.
I tell you what, the longer you you last in this process, the more experience & knowledge you gain it becomes obvious this is not a simple 'game' you have waded into. Any newbies like me that have happened onto some website promising foreign brides just waiting to jump into your lap for a life of fun! Dream on. I assumed it would not be 'easy' when I 1st wandered in but like everything else, once I became wiser. I still believe it to be worth it for many, but nothing truly good is going to be easy. Your situation better be darn unique before you get complete tunnel vision. I wouldn't go passing up some perfectly nice homegrown girl that wandered across your landscape because your holding out for a 23 year old European goddess in a bikini...what's the old saying; if it seems to good to be true it probably is.(that's in addition to the 100 or so RECENT posts making the point)
Newbies; take out your calculator & add all the costs of you 1st 'face to face' trip there (airfare, accommodations, 'dates' etc...). THEN if your convinced you're both sold out, look up the posts & web info on costs, trials & tribulations of the Visa process. THEN add up all the costs of bringing beloved (& possibly child)to the U.S. or wherever 'home' is for you. Then weight the 'adjustment' time for you, her & child in new environment. btw- that is IF everything is perfect the FIRST time. It not always is. I'm not trying to chase anybody away, I'm still here. But if you're living paycheck to paycheck & heard about these Mail Order Brides... go shoot whoever told you the fantasy.
For me, my situation IS unique, PLUS in doing some homework I figure my odds are still better finding a GOOD FSU woman than I ever will wear I am. I am a bit old fashioned in my standards (I think 'fuddy-duddy is way my daughters put it.) Been divorced & aint ever gonna consider it again. So I'm still here after being daunted by all that I've learned.
And OH, btw- when I see "18, 19, 20, 21 y.o. child lives with me"...that's become a red flag also.
After Aneurysm's story just thought I'd throw out all the 'Reality Check" I've picked up. Sorry for the buzz kill. You may return to your reguarly scheduled programming now.