To my knowledge, the answer is no ... at least, in the demographic I am interested in (family-oriented women in their 30s).
Most of these women want a good family life with a decent husband, and would prefer to find a husband their own age, in the city where they live. But they have become mighty discouraged about this, so some of them are willing to face the challenges of an international marriage with a bigger age gap.
Most of the women I have met, like and are proud of the city where they live (although a great many complain about the cold winters!) And most of them have family there, or within a day's ride by bus or train, whom they cherish and like to visit often. Most of them have some good friends, and enjoy chatting in their own language, even if they have become really fluent in another.
So I believe that many women on these international websites would be delighted if a foreign man would move to their town to love and care for them, especially if he had enough financial resources that they wouldn't have to scramble as hard as most folks do.
There certainly are many (apart from the gold-diggers, who are their own category) who have an American (or French, or Swedish, or Australian) dream, who expect that life will be much more pleasant than their country of choice. But I think these make less than half of the sincere women (at least, in the demographic I mentioned above).
Of the relo-oriented group, many have (unfortunately) never been to their dream country, and have an unrealistic picture of life there (including, perhaps, Elena, the soon-to-be ex of the original poster).
I am mindful that if a woman comes to America in order to make a family with me, she will be leaving behind much that is very dear to her. It's a big deal, and calls for a lot of sensitivity on the part of the foreign husband. Anyway, that's one fool's opinion.
if they only marry to get out of country then it is not to find love, and the marriage would not work, i have heard ukraine especially has much improved the last 5 or 10 years and woman are much happier there now and would prefer to stay, i supose it would depend on which part you live in, and if the woman has family and friends there would she not mis them and be unhappy far away from them. woman seem to want or need there family close. guys are more independent, if a woman dismisses it and only wants to live here without talking about the options i would be wiery of there motives, that might be just me but love can live any where, i heard of a couple in lugansk in there sixties maybe seventies he had half a leg missing they were poor but his wife helped him on the bus and you could see they had one thing that money could not buy..
Who will be the sponsor, Baron? You? How long does it take for someone to petition her parents in law? I know that if a sibling petitions her sibling, it takes twenty years. My ex-wife did that. Wait until she becomes a citizen. I believe that only takes six months.
How times have changed. My grandfather left his family in 1925 for America. Noone heard from him again until 1965 when my mother found him when she came to the US on a working visa. She talked him into petitioning all of his children, grandchildren and great grandchildren. We all made it here within a year.
You maybe right, baron. I will research that when I cross that bridge.
Come to think of it, my ex-wife might have screwed up, but it did take her twenty years. Only after she got help from my father, who was knowledgeable in these matters did her paperwork get approved. I'm not sure if it was my father's paperwork or the original paperwork that was approved.
This is to answer Durak's earlier post. Sorry it has taken so long, I have been very busy.
1). I suspect you are right. I think she will continue to have problems in the US as her "rigid" personality is not a best fit for adaption to a new culture or life. She would be better if she returned to Perm. She will have to come to that conclusion herself.
2) This is the problem with the Russian bride thing. It is impossible to really know anyone if you don't have face-to-face contact for a more reasonable time period than the process allows. Even if we communicated for a few years before she came over on the K-1 visa, you just can't really know someone this way. In the beginning it was too easy to interpret her rigid way of thinking as adjustment challenges. The K-qvisa's would work better if one had a year first before the mandatory marriage. This process is high stakes gamble, something I didn't take as seriously.
3) I learned how naive I am and one can't always make a fantasy into reality. Also, I compromised my needs too much in an attempt to tolerate the lack of warmth in this mate, just to keep things from greater deterioration. Really, the marriage never had a chance since my competition was her career fantasy.
4) I really don't think this was a very big issue. Not too sure it was very relevant. Her reasons for leaving Russia was, as she said, Russian men make poor husbands. Otherwise she would have stayed in Russia.
5) While her family was very warm and open to me, since I didn't speak Russian and I was only in Rusia for 3 weeks, it was impossible to know each other. At first she spoke of our marriage as her family, but really her family was her brother and daughter. Her mother and father was deceased. She really never integrated my family with hers, but kept this as a fragmented thing; or at least I think so.
Not too sure this posting is very helpful, but they are my current thought on the questions.
But the real point is guys, you are all hearing only one side of the story. Just maybe there is some personal flaws with him or maybe some compatibility issues as a couple.
I have a Russian friend and she was very successful doctor in Russia, she comes here and has to start all over again, very stress full for her and her family but she is a fighter and will succeed and she is 41yo
So let’s put the shoes on the other foot, you go to Russia with you successful US career and see if you can get a job and make ends meet, let’s see how frustrated you get. Like I said two sides to every story.
There are many successful marriages with FSU woman and many fail, not much more than here.
I don't think the fact that a girl wants to relocate necessarily marks her as a gold digger. The vast majority of places in the FSU are still shitholes. I mean there is probably about 20 square miles in the whole of ukraine (downtown kiev and odessa) that would be considered a "nice" environment to live in compared to any western country. And opportunities to have a job good enough to be able to live on your own, have a holiday over seas, a car etc, are almost non-existent.
devilmaycare, this is not factually true. Many FSU women have cars and the western appliances/electronics. They have cable TV and tourism agencies to help them obtain the visas to vacation to Europe and they go too. They have restaurants, bowling alleys (all over the place in the cities), the internet, skype, cell phones, jobs, apartments and their country homes, fishing, hunting and other western life style choices.
What many Russian women will say is they want a man who will commit in the marriage, instead of leaving when they have a child, and a man who isn't drunk or unemployed. Thus, they seek a non-Russian husband. In fact most Russian brides do not want to leave Russia, their family, friends and career.
I never said they live in the dark ages but probably 1 in 50 women on international
dating sites have their own car, probbaly 1 in 20 own or rent their own apartment. When FSU women talk about how men "wont commit" blah blah they are talking about the small proportion of wealthy or even financially stable men - FSU is crawling with "nice" men who don't have 2 coppers to rub together but this isnt what the gorgeous women on the dating sites are looking for.
I've met 20 women (more or less) through websites (whether that's a smart thing to do, is a topic for another thread), and I can think of 4 who had their own auto. This of course is not a representative sample, because I was selecting them by my criteria, and they selected themselves my agreeing to meet.
But 20% (1 in 5) was a much higher proportion of car owners than I expected. One of these gals was reduced to walking around the sidewalks of Moscow on her day off, looking for people who wanted a ride to the airport, in order to earn enough cash to make her car payment.
All of these car-owners were in Russia. Maybe the percentages are higher there than in Ukraine, where most of the guys posting here seem to do their hunting.
Actually durak my experience isn't dissimilar to yours but that's because like you I was selecting on 30+ career oriented women - its probably more like one in 10 of that category in ukraine. Of the 4 car owners I've met or written too none of them were salaried employees and only one of them was what I would call "financially stable" - the others were/are killing themselves trying to keep their small businesses afloat. I'm happy that across the board my guessed figures arent too far wrong.
I've met over 30 girls in my time and none have owned a car and only 2 had their own apt(rented).
Most jobs were just average, meaning not very high paid jobs from teachers to medical profession.
Most still lived with their parents or went back to parents. I was told once, you move out when you marry. Most girls were of the late 20's to early/mid 30's if that makes a difference and practically all were from ukraine. Recently, I was talking with a russian girl and she told me it is much easier to get a russian into USA( she is US citizen) than a ukrainian. So there are differences between the 2 countries.
Only one I ever met that had a car was a hairdresser (own salon).
Even then I believe she said it was a gift from a former boyfriend or ex-husband...can't remember which.
In any case I doubt if the "plenty own cars" statement can be construed as even a tiny minority.
Professional women (meaning women who, in the west would be considered professional...doctors eg) on the whole still live with their parents if they're single...or have gone back to live with their parents after finding themselves single.
Franklcsw makes true statements, in my experience, but then, so does Kirkland.
What I see everyday here in an average Western Ukraine City, and on my previous travels to other Cities, is a proportion of girls aged 17 to 30 with very fashionable clothes, new mobile phones, socializing in well-to-do Café's, and turning up in the Disco's regularly. And, apart from their striking beauty, they look like any other girls from just about any Western Country, to my eye anyway.
When you speak with these girls you hear that almost all of them live with their parents, almost none own a car, or even have a license, and of those that are not students and have a job, their salary seems to range between 700 & 1,200 grivnas per month.
As I look around at the drivers of cars here in Rivne (essential when crossing the roads if you want to stay alive) I see a tiny proportion are female.
My own girl is 27 (just) is a Secretary to Rivne's Vice Mayor at the Department of Education. She works a full week, and earns 800 grivnas a month, paid in 2 parts. Now she lives with me, but until this she lived with her mama and sister in a 1 bedroom flat, she and her sister slept in the living room, each in a pull-out chair. My girl has an average mobile phone (I may buy her a new one for National Women's Day in March – shush) but has an astonishing amount of great clothes she has built up over time, some are over 10 years old and still look like new. Her friends, a few of which I've met, are of a similar disposition.
These observations are of course only for Ukraine and, only MY observations.
Just my 10 cents worth. I understand everybody trying to 'understand', get a perfectly clear picture of what they are dealing with. I think part of it is just being the male gender. We take things apart; motors, homes, garbage disposals etc.... we want to understand - fix or conquer.
Are there scammers? Yes, probably more than ever now that this is known as fertile ground. Are there 'generalities", age range etc... where we are likely to be more successful - yes.
But face it, humans in general are complicated & every one unique. Women....forget it, you will never fully define A or THE woman. The internet has made across the worl communication easy but also easily anonymous. Then you have culture, traditions... You give someone the time to construct a letter & they can sound wonderful each time. Meet someone for a brief time for a planned, best behavior meeting & that will seem wonderful also. We have grown up having girlfriends we would spend our near every waking moment with. A lot better gauge of what this woman will be like waking up to every day for decades. I was once told that if you want to know what your gf will be like in 20 years - spend time with her mother. Good advice but not something easily done on other side of the globe. It's also said a girl will often seek to marry 'her father'. ie... her male role model. Or maybe even anti-father if he was not a good 1.
Point is...people & life in general have become complicated & we are trying to do this the hard way. If you're trying to paint a broad picture for succesful strategies, forget it. It's an each situation is unique deal & even at that you need to be very fortunate to be really successful. So be prepared to do everything you possibly can to know the woman & her background. ask ALL the very hard questions we want to be polite in avoiding. Be prepared to spend time there & be very observant. Even then your chances of being succesful in a 10, 20, 30 year relationship are not certain, but they're better. I am still here because I do have a unique situation plus I believe a good FSU woman, well raised in their culture & traditions suits me a hundred fold better than 90% of the women I find in contemporary, 'enlightened' U.S. society. Even at that I am daunted by how difficult it CAN be.
1 major point - STAY AWAY from the pay everything sites like AoB etc... Many of you advised me thru doubts I was having with a woman I corresponded with for 4 months. But I was convinced she was the Real Thing. Came close to my visit there & "POOF" - she disappeared. Email closed. cell phone # changed...she virtually disappeared overnight. That's how easy it is to work this. See they don't have to be your picture of a 'scammer'. They get paid for their letters & it's easy to just maintain this as some imaginary, 'dream' dating or relationship. All the stories of kid in school, childhood stories bad day at work. Even the boatlaod of 'life' pictures (each 1 sent = more $) can be real. ut since she's playing a 'part', blending reality w/ make believe it all sounds very good & near impossible to pick apart. Instead of making a couple hundred bucks asking you for all the scammer stuff. phone card $, english lessons etc... she makes $ by keeping you engaged in a nice, wonderful relationship. Maybe even living out a dream of the perfect one herself.
So the end of this long novel I wrote - eliminate the $ motivation. Be prepared to work hard & even fall on your face a couple of times. Nothing good comes easy & you are looking for something uniquely qonderful so be ready to work for it just like anything else of real value you have.