The problem here is I agree with you. The percentages of "genuine" women are probably more in other FSU countries. However, you cannot blame me or anyone else if the government gives you a hard time by asking for a visa. It is simply just easier, and one does not know better. Further, you cannot know about these women until they advertise.
That doesn't mean that there are no genuine women in Ukraine. The ones people here are exposed to are the commercialized ones, the ones that have been on dating websites, socials and even call girls. Yet, even in big cities like Kiev, you can find genuine women. I have met women there that doesn't go to websites and want a relationship with men. They are just not advertising themselves in the media. I do admit you have to think hard about the ones in the websites.
Especially the ones who already found a mate, like me in Ukraine, you should not compare them to a processed meat burger while there are rib eye steak or prime fillet elsewhere. You would not want anyone elst to say that about your girl, would you?
A burger might proclaim "real beef" on the packaging but once one delves a little further all is not what is proclaimed.
Likewise, a Ukrainian woman, to some, might proclaim "Russian values" in the marketing, something that many of these guys will be going for. but, again, once one delves a little deeper, it might have been Russian once but now, it may be a shoddy and inferior product much the same as a burger is compared to the real thing.
If one wants real beef then one heads to the butcher's rather than the convenience store ..... convenient because it is cheaper and easier to get to and with less formalities etc.
martin- you get what you pay for... not in the literal sense as many may surmise from your post. I agree. why settle for hamburger when you can have prime if you just put in the work, find the right market and know where the cattle is raised... hopefully not from a mass production farm...
Martin compared Ukrainians to processed meat burger and women from FSU countries to rib eye steak. Aren't you concuring with that with your prime fillet comment? I am merely saying not to classify women this way, scammers or no scammers. There are men with women here from Ukraine.
Your posts were delayed in appearing so please do not think that you were being ignored.
I merely used beef as an example, I could have talked about breakfast cereals, prestige cars, whatever, please don't read anything in to any thought that you may have that I regard women as 'meat', I think you know better than that.
But I'm too tired, and somewhat ill, at this time of (my) night to add anything further tonight thus good night gents ...... and Olga :)
I posted an original question, now I'm hearing about; beef, porterhouse, prime fillet ..... You guys have me craving staek now.
I understand the metaphors.
I've done some homework and the #s of dating agencies in the UA is in the THOUSANDS. Can't remember the exact figure, only that I was stunned considering the size of the country. This is a huge industry there. Full page ads in newspapers, billboards for every block. Gorgeous women - yes, but even the average in hands of a good photog & post edit looks good. Woman I was corresponding with was an absolute knock our in image. Picture I got back from a morning gift delivery - she was asleep at 9am & looked nothing like pictures. Truth is, what do these girls have to lose?? Be drawn in by an add for possibility of making some extra $ - have some pictures taken & see if anybody writes? That's just for the 1s w/ real people attached to the bio. In truth, who really knows who they are writing? It could be a housewife making mad & & fantasizing at the same time. You could receive a hundred very genuine pictures all way down to grandma.
Easy visas, easy travel as validation??? You promise me a reasonably level playing field & I'll take the extra time for paperwork, jump in the back of a wagon full of hay for portion of a trip.
I know life has no guarantees. I'm not afraid of rejection. Not Robert Redford but sharp looking for my age, my own home 3 blocks from beach and stable income. I can handle myself. But repeatedly wasting time and effort until things start getting serious or your questions start hitting close to home....then poof. Gone.
I no longer correspond there, my profile is Deactivated, but keep my log-on at Army of Brides. Past several months the % is way over to 19-24 yo girls in more & more provocative photos, their bios say "men to 60 yo". I have daughters 22 & 23 yo!!! Their bios say things like "Age does not matter to me. It is the inner world" or "I prefer mature men who know to care for a lady"....... I have this bridge over the Hudson River I've been trying to get rid of. Any buyers?
The absolute focus seems on Ukraine & I was just curious why.
Ukrainians all jumped on the bandwagon a number of years back and have exhausted the industry to death. Upon the demise of the USSR, when there was no internet, letters were via snail mail, when I started writing back in 1998 it was still snail mail for the first few months, I still recall one lady, from the Russian outback, that having sent me her photos asked that, if I didn't like, could I return them to her because she cpuldn't afford more, compare this scenario to Ukraine whereas many are at the designer clothes and cosmetics stores, how can they afford all this on their meagre salaries? ..... Because somewhere in the scenario is a man, either they have a Ukrainian man financially supporting such a lifestyle or they've got western man/men on the hook doing likewise.
I know of, as some here know, one Ukrainian agency, the boss of that markets her company, to entice ladies to sign up ladies that may be otherwise disinterested, that 'us' western men, when we visit, will buy them expensive gifts, these ladies may have no intention of leaving Ukraine, I know that many already have Ukrainian boyfriends, if not husbands, and they're only in it for financial reasons and, amongst these ladies, word spreads like wildfire and many more disinterested ladies sign up etc. And, at that agency, these ladies don't even write the letters, the interpreters do that and what they write is focused on encouraging the men to Ukraine whereas they can rip him off for interpreting, accommodation etc. and the ladies can get their gifts as they were promised when they signed up.
But so many guys just cannot figure "There's something wrong with this picture", as you indicate bgpa, for the size of the country there simply cannot be that number of successful agency businesses and ladies genuinely available, there isn't, you mention Army of Brides, well AoB are famous for being a deceptive organisation, likewise Global Ladies, or whatever they call themselves now, they've jumped on this Ukrainian bandwagon also and the majority of guys, who might never visit such a forum as this, troop in by the 100's!
i would have to agree with you martin, Ukraine is a kind of glorified meat market with a great advertising strategy.
just from reading this forum, should put off most let alone been there.
how many Americans i have met in Internet cafes doing searches and such in my little time there.
one actually shocked the hell out of me in Crimea, with his fluent Russian, i would never have guessed he was searching for girls and American, felt like i found a cold war spy..
what i mean by all this is what martin is getting at, its full of game players with to many guys looking, the country is geared into this..
for example its to easy to get around in for a english speaker when you think about it..
i am a lot more happier i have switched into small towns inside Russia,, and wow the girls are just as beautiful and with almost no knowledge of what the typical Ukraine girl has up her sleeve.
it surprises me of how many single girls there are in these little towns and as usual so immaculately dressed with it seems beautiful hearts,, the biggest problem i have found , is many don't like alcohol, no tolerance for it, very anti this beverage.
Ukraine is a good laugh learning the game of these girls but its a bit tiring bothering with so much uncertainty.
actually Ukraine is also in epidemic with HIV, hepatitis and such, what a turn on..
i wonder how many guys have found out their bride to be has HIV when she dose her medical test for immigrating?
so why is it still suck a draw card???
bgpa, its about info, and its Ukraine which has it,, its easy to travel to and through, as well as been set up for men looking for a girl..
most humans are very predictable, "where dose a man walk in darkness,, the path, where another has been before"
I just looked up the HIV rates of Ukraine, Russia and the US in Wikipedia. Ukraine is 1.06% (2008 est), Russia 1.01% (2001 est), the US 0.6% (2007 est.) I do wonder why the Russian data old. There is not that much of a difference. Out of 10,000 people, 106 people in Ukraine have HIV and 101 in Russia.
I agree. Ukraine has more game players and many guys looking. Still, I will not nor will I accept the description of Ukraine, where I met my gf as a glorified meat market. Many of the women there might have something up their sleeves, but I have been to many places, and I have enjoyed the women in Ukraine more than any other place. As bad as some of my stories are, I had a great time. Granted, I have not been to other FSU countries, other than a stopover.
Ukraine has one of the most severe HIV/AIDS epidemics in Europe, contributing to nearly 21 percent of the newly reported HIV diagnoses in the Europe and Eurasia (E&E) region in 2006. Ukraine’s first case of HIV/AIDS was detected in 1987, and the epidemic appeared to be confined to a small population of foreign students until the mid-1990s, when a sudden and explosive epidemic emerged among injecting drug users in the southern and eastern regions of the country. With 1.63 percent of the adult population estimated to be HIV positive in 2007, HIV has been detected in every oblast (province) of the country. Kiev, the capital city, and some regions in southeastern Ukraine account for more than 70 percent of all registered HIV cases in the country. The annual number of HIV diagnoses has more than doubled since 2001 and, according to UNAIDS, reached 17,687 in 2007. UNAIDS estimated that at the end of 2007, 440,000 people in Ukraine were HIV positive and that there were 22,000 deaths in 2005 due to AIDS.
Initial HIV/AIDS activities by USAID/Ukraine focused on building capacity among nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) to conduct HIV prevention activities. The USAID/Ukraine HIV/AIDS strategy for 2003–2008 aims to reduce transmission of the disease through the adoption, promotion, and facilitation of protective behaviors; the strengthening of partners to plan, manage, and evaluate HIV/AIDS programs; and the reduction of HIV/AIDS-related stigma and discrimination. With its 12 implementing partners, USAID focuses its HIV prevention efforts in the oblasts that have the country’s highest HIV prevalence: Cherkasy, Crimea, Dnipropetrovs’k, Donets’k, Kherson, Kiev, Mykolayiv, and Odesa.
Quoted from: USAID website. And of course the numbers show less than actual based on reporting and consideration of time since this was posted.
Now you can do a study of how many of the eligible women on dating sites fall into that percentage.
Does the study separate it into demographics? No, it is just numbers based on an entire population. I may be mistaken, but there is a very large percentage of people over 50. And I'm willing to bet that of those the ones that fall into the HIV positive column are minuscule compared to the 25 to 45 year old crowd. So just looking at raw data does not tell the whole story. Think of how the free attitude toward sex puts many at risk from the 25 to 35 year old group.
yes they are as bad as each other, Russia Ukraine.
actually its disgusting how these country's have allow this to take such a hold,, there orphanages tell horror stories of children with no parents from such, horror storeys they are anyway..
most people over there are not really overly worried about such,, protection isn't used like home here.
you do need to ask what percentage of girls on these sites may have it..
i have always been amazed of the typical Russian Ukraine's attitude to this, put it on the shelf and worry about it tomorrow type of thing.
i have never come across a girl over there that has demanded i where protection..
that has been my own choice, bit scary when ya think about it..
Halfway thru only page 2 of a thread does not signify that it has been beat to death, page 5, 10, 15 etc. of a thread then maybe!
Your point regarding "It's not that bad" might be valid but waffling on about a comparison in HIV rates isn't going to strengthen, or weaken, your point.
Is it part of the letter writing, or initial face to face introduction, process whereas one asks "Are you HIV positive?" or "I'm taking you to the clinic before our first date"? Of course it's not and looking at the figures you guys have quoted above the diffence between HIV rates between UA and RU isn't diddly squat, apparently a debate that neither of you are going to win so why not agree to differ and let's get back to "Why the infatuation with women of Ukraine?" because, vidsa or no visa required, it has phuck all to do with HIV rates!
At first I was inclining toward the Ukraine due to financial reasons, but after reading Smart Martin's post, I may have to reconsider. Is the Ukraine really that bad for men in search of a women? It just seems unfathomable that a man who can speak fluent Russian unable to find someone in the Ukraine especially a well off in comparison western man. Perhaps his standards were too high? Something just doesn't feel right.
How about country side of Ukraine? How does that compare to say Russia? Moscow of Russia? Would it be equally as plentiful of scammers? In Moscow, the salary is equivalent to western countries. A western men can't offer as much financially in Moscow compared to poorer countries like Ukraine.