I started correspondence with the girl in question in late December. By January, it was clear that there was something there that could stand the test of a meeting, and so I proposed travelling out to her, and she happily agreed.
I'd done some research on the agency, and it seemed they aren't well thought of on this forum. They're called Canodros, and it's been mentioned on here that they scam for translation (with the girls getting a 'cut'). I don't know if there's been a change of management since then, or if I just got lucky, but there was no hint of that. We did use a translator for the first day, however she kept encouraging the girl I was with to try speaking to me directly (her English was very basic, and she was nervous to give it a go). Also, even though most of our initial meetings were in restaurants, the translator pretty much refused to have anything except a cup of tea (being the hospitable type, I kept asking if she wanted food, and she'd always reply "it would be unprofessional, and hard to do my job"). After me and my lady went solo, there would be an occasional call to the interpreter (at all hours) for the odd bit of 'help' - none of which was charged for. Finally, I wrote a letter to her mother (happy mother, happy daughter), which the agency said they'd be happy to translate without charge (even though I'd offered to pay).
If I'm honest, I do suspect they did some of the letter writing (on the odd occasion, when it was a question about the apartment etc.) Given the moral social compass that seems to exist there, I didn't think this to be something that would be considered particularly dishonest by them, so I decided to judge them on their behaviour while I was in town. Which, I must say, was exemplary.
About the meeting:
Well, I was an hour late for our first meeting (late taxi driver and a dearth of banks who would exchange Sterling), but she didn't seem to mind. We went to a pizza restaurant where you place your order on a touch screen recessed in the wall by the table. My contact was nervous and didn't eat much. She asked a lot of specific, personal questions regarding my intentions, hope for the future, previous marriage etc, but only after I'd assured her that I didn't mind such questions. (She'd been very specific and worried about me being genuine in our early correspondence, which I'd found positively indicative of her intentions).
Later that evening, we went to the restaurant where she works. It was quite a short meeting, but it went very well. We had a bit of sushi, and did more talking. I think the point for both of us was to see if our correspondence matched up to the 'in person' experience.
On day two, everything changed. We went for a walk in the morning, picked up one of her kids from school, and went to another pizza restaurant (she likes pizza, she likes fish - go figure!) After we'd eaten, she took him home and we met up again in the evening. As soon as I got in the taxi, she grasped my hand and gave me a big, warm smile. She didn't let go until we got to her restaurant. I'd brought a wallet full of HRV's, but she wanted me to be her 'guest', and treated me for the evening. She was nervous the whole time, and kept asking if I was ok. After an hour of reassuring her that I was really happy, everything was fine. Afterwards, she came back to my apartment, and the translator went home.
From that moment on, we spent pretty much the whole week together, sans interpreter. She stayed over a couple of times, and introduced me to her friends, all of whom I really liked. She's giving me their email addresses, and we found a lot of common ground, so I see only good things there.
I noticed that she repeatedly wore the same clothes, and I felt bad for her. I asked her if she wanted to go shopping, and she seemed horrified by the idea of me buying things for her. I also had to fight her to be able to pay the taxi's. If the taxi was dropping us off separately, the most I could get her to agree to was to pay half each. A gold digger she is not.
Communication wasn't always easy, as her very basic English is still much better than my lousy Russian. Still, I had my mini-promt ap on my iPhone, which bridged the gap well enough. A combination of this, hand gestures and lots of giggles, and we managed OK.
We had a generally fantastic time, apart from the moments she'd start crying because I'd be going home soon. She really did get distraught about this.
On the second to last day, we engaged the services of the translator one last time (my idea) so we could have a proper discussion about what to do next. She has a lot of things to sort out with regards her kids, and she's very close to her family. Still, we started talking about such things, and we've agreed a date for me to go back (in July).
Well, as I wrote in my previous thread, my aim was to have an idea who I'd be going back to see in the summer. I absolutely have my answer. If things keep going the way they are, it may be fair to say that my 'search' part is over.
I learned two new Russian phrases while I was there - "Ya neez zniyou" (she really is indecisive) and "Ya tyebya lyublyu"
I have to admit, I'm feeling pretty good about the whole thing. I was in Mariupol, which was actually much bigger than I expected. I think it'll be pretty nice in the summer (assuming one ignores the soviet era apartment towers)
You didn't ask for comments ... but fools rush in, where angels fear to tread ...
First, congratulations on an excellent visit, and thanks for writing about it here.
To my mind, her behavior is strongly consistent with sincerity. It's interesting that most of the 'bad girls' don't even bother to do simple things, that would make a pretence of sincerity -- at least the ones I have seen don't bother to be subtle. Probably you have struck gold!
I think I would be a bit worried, about hearing "I love you" at such an early stage. Even if romance is blossoming between you, it takes a little time. I wouldn't assume that she is deceptive, but rather is eager/anxious.
I believe (probably some men here will disagree) that the prospects for single mothers in the Russian-speaking world -- especially those with more than one child -- are pretty dim. They know that most of them will never find a decent husband. And quite naturally, instinctively, and understandably, they want a man not only to be their lover and protector, but also a good step-father. So in finding a young man like yourself (not an old fossil, as I am), who already devotes great energy to the well-being of the young, she may feel that she has a possibility that she won't see again -- and of course, this is very emotional for her.
One fool's thoughts, anyway.
I am glad that you will return in warmer weather, and have plenty of time to build your acquaintance long-distance in the meantime.
P.S. About clothes -- to terribly oversimplify, I divide Ukrainian women into "fashion plates" and "regular gals." On the sidewalks of Kyiv, the fashion plates are much in evidence! But the woman I adored a couple of years ago was a "regular gal," who wore next to no makeup or perfume (she didn't need them) and whose clothes were pretty simple. She didn't mind wearing the same outfit repeatedly. In fact, in her tiny apartment, having a big wardrobe would have been impossible. To my mind, a fashion plate would feel deeply deprived if she couldn't model a different outfit each time, but for a regular gal, it's no big deal.
I got only a positive vibe from your report, I think this lady is serious brother, and serious about YOU. My only concern, and it's quite a large one, is not with her from what I just read, but with you, why so long until you return to her ? July is 5 months away, almost half of a year, it's a long time. I know you have to work and everything over there in Blighty, but you really cant return to this woman until 5 months time ?
If you need anything sending to this lady, like a letter written by you in English, then translated into Russian and posted or emailed to her give me a shout, I'll have a word with my girl and see if she'll help you.
And no worries about us not connecting while you were here, I see that you were very occupied, and rightly so mate, well done you.
I'm up to lesson 5 in Pimsluer 1 (not nearly as far as I'd hoped by now, but I haven't been able to dedicate much time to it). I found the trip to be really helpful, and I'd say I'm better for spending a little time there. I've resolved to step things up a bit, so we'll see how it goes.
Durak,
Nail spot on the head mate. You couldn't be more right. This girl is absolutely gorgeous - more so in the flesh than in photos, but she really was desperate to 'keep hold' of me. I made a point of telling her I'd treat her kids as my own (which I think became evident when she saw me playing with her son), and the tears would follow, and then the "I love you"s would show up. Either way, I seems I tick her boxes. Also, the closer the time came for me to leave, the more the statements of love - she was clearly getting anxious that I'd disappear on a plane and she'd never hear from me again. I'm not reading too much into it for now.
Hopefully the contact we've had since will put her mind to rest - that and the copy of the e-ticket I'll be sending her next week :)
This is a really nice story.
Great to hear about a success story from someone who can man-up and make an effect on someone life.
What Durak says is on the nail; the gals with the simple clothes and little make-up are the ones to be searching for.
Women who have been dumped with a child or two in tow have limited options when it comes to securing a partner...hence her proclamaitions of love and emotion when you're talking about her kids. Nothing wrong with that...maybe she doesn't really love you yet, but her sincerity is worn on her sleeve for sure.
It's hard enough bringing up kids on your own in Euroland with our social security net. In FSU it's a whole new ballgame.
If she has an opportunity she hold it with both hands.
Good luck and keep up the good work.
Well done muzzy. There is a lot of luck involved in the FSU bride game,and that is sometime masked by a certain amount of "I just did xyz and everything worked out fantastically with the first girl I met" survivorship bias that goes on in these forums.
Having said you dramatically increased your odds of success by shooting for someone nearer your own age with a child.
" There is a lot of luck involved in the FSU bride game,and that is sometime masked by a certain amount of "I just did xyz and everything worked out fantastically with the first girl I met" survivorship bias that goes on in these forums. "
Lot of luck? I think got to be 80%-90%. For example my friend, who brought his fiance to us in january, has asked me many times what is problem with finding an FSU girl. He met his on his first trip. What he didn't realize what 'little' things that had to happen for them to meet. Like his first girl using him, his fiance almost missing bus and not showing up..... What about your original date not showing by being sick and you end up with girl of your dreams. There are things we don't know about that have affected many a meetings or stopped meetings. I know of several. The perfect girl for you maybe just around the corner.....but if you don't by chance meet, you'll never know her. I know people think of be destined to meet.....but it is just luck...not hard work......just luck.....the right time and the right place....and just a little luck......
Ok...so I'm new at this whole "overseas bride" thing, but I'm definitely interested in it, is there any advice you guys can give me? I'm a man of modest means...(translated: I don't have 10K to spend on ANYONE much less myself!) And I don't want to get burned the first time around, yet I also don't want to grow old alone, (and I'm nearly there pushing 39 years old this June!) so if you could supply me with any information that will help me out I'd appreciate it a whole lot!
Well Knighthawk, although about half of the posts on this forum are junk (mostly little-boy mudfighting), I still recommend spending a number of hours trawling through, because there are lots of real stories too. Many of the "hunters" are guys like me at 50+, so for you being under 40 can be a huge advantage, if you are sensible. As for money, if you get all the way to marriage, it will probably cost a lot, though it will depend on where you live, and how lucky you are. If you are from the US, for example, and you only spend $10K, then you will be getting off light.
But bigger than the money is the emotional energy, commitment, and investment of time that is likely to be required. The real starting point has to be honesty with ourselves, about who we are, and what we are searching for. After that, learn as much as you can about the countries, cultures, and the bizarre minefield of international dating. I can only dream what it might be like, if I were starting at your age!
Even though Alla and I agreed in Kiev to become married and to begin the long K-1 US Visa process (we both knew and understood there would be time during this process to further our relationship), the words I Love You were never spoken until many months later.
But....if this woman meets all your criteria and you are serious about being serious, then she is the one. Right? You can only have one wife, remember this.
Keep up the relationship and keep asking questions.
well Muzzy, it looks like you have a new hobby. Now it is time to ensure and also to 'make sure'. Now that you are going to put all of your focus on one lady -right? - it will become an entirely different experience. Good luck. I hope all works out well.
@ Beemer & Devil - 1,000's of men communicating with 1,000's of women over a distance of 1,000's of miles, with scammers and time wasters on both ends hidden among the genuine cases! The odds of getting it right seem astronomical, so dumb luck certainly plays a part. I'm fairly certain, though, that playing it smart can increase your 'odds' (although it would be arrogant to think that anyone has the 'right' way, and that a good plan would ever be a guarantee of success)
@Knighthawk - If you're below 40, you're on the younger side of the guys these girls are communicating with, so unless your mind's set on an 18 year old, you're just the age lots of truly amazing women are looking for. I'm in about the same age bracket as you (I'm 34), and I now have the heartbreaking job of letting a bunch of other ladies down, all of whom are genuine and would make amazing wives - but as Baron said, I can only have one. I'd mirror much of Durak's advice - know yourself first, how much you want this, and what you're willing to do to get it (it doesn't have to be silly expensive, but it IS going to cost. Learning some Russian is a must). So many guys start writing letters to these girls, making big promises, then refusing to travel to meet them, and disappearing without a trace. This really hurts the girls - don't be that guy. Know what you want first, and get ready to travel within a short timeframe. This alone puts you head and shoulders above 90% of guys they talk to. Also, don't get suckered into chasing the 20 year old photoshopped bikini models. There's lots of advice on here for avoiding scammers - read, read, read and you'll be fine. There are plenty of 30+ STUNNERS who would feel like Christmas has come early to land a decent 30+ bloke.
@Baron & Ralf - as mentioned above, all communication with other girls ceases as of now. It's a good job, too, as communication with my GF (as which she will now be referred to) has increased dramatically, so I wouldn't have time to communicate with others if I wanted to (which I don't). We're both removing our profiles from the sites.
Cood luck to you Muzzy! We missed each other in Borispol, I think you changed the day of your flight you had planned awhile back. I was in the airport for an extended time myself on the 19th because of fog delaying my lady friend's flight from Simferopol. We spent 4 days in Kiev and then on to Kharkov for another 4 days. We had a great time and bought each other paintings in the park at kharkov. I have 5 paintings to bring home. I may just shed some clothes so that the paintings fit into my luggage or I will have to buy another suitcase. We are now in the Crimea. The weather is good here , only needing a light coat. We will likely travel on to Yalta in a couple of days.
Muzzy , I have to agree with another posting. If you can get back to visit your lady for a few days , even on the spur of the moment, it will keep the days from becoming weeks and then months. Love is fragile , especially in the early days when little time and emotion is invested. If you can get away for an extended weekend, go for it. I wish that I was as close as you. I have 30 hours layover time roundtrip more than you, so it seems like a short trip from my perspective.
While in Borispol waiting I met an ex-patriot from the Ukraine with an American passport. He was waiting for his friends to arrive from down river to pick him up. He was impressed on how I had become familiar with the Ukraine and the means of travelling about. I shared some advise about attaining an unblocked telephone and getting a Ukrainian Sim card and getting an aircard from UTEL for the internet and not relying on WIFI. Wifi is ok , but not always convenient. If anyone has recommendations for a telephone that will work with internet service,,, advise is welcome........