Well put it this way, if you were a lonesome man sittong in FSU and some good looking gal starts writing nice things to you online, would you settle for it being a keyboard scenario?
4 or 5 letters, well that could be 4 or 5 days or 4 or 5 weeks, if days then way too soon, unless she's fat and/or ugly, if weeks then more reasonable, you're right to be cautious but if this affects you financially then why bother in the first place, it doesn't all happen in one trip, you should expect to make several trips and then she'll expect to return to her homeland every so often and for many years to come.
Not a good idea. You are "fresh meat " to the scammers, daters and those that make a living from marking up the cost of travel and lodging. You however seem to know this already. There are many ways to establish that a woman is at least truly there and writing to you, but ultimatly, until you go, you cannot have a chance at a real relationship.
First establish a solid relationship by email then chat in "My World" or what ever social networking site she belongs to then graduate to skype vide and phone calls... afer that you will have a good understanding if she is legit or not... be very careful and remember this road is full of mine fields.
if i was a serious person and living in ukraine, i would empathize and understand that the foreigner had to go through some hardship to see me, so i would be careful before extending an invitation.
but 4 out of 5 REALLY like you so much after only a few emails? how do you look? do you look like brad pitt?
if not, my first thought is that these girls are not really interested in you at all. but they might be interested in renting you an apartment, or going on a nice vacation, etc..
most of us come from civilized countries, and we don't expect educated people to be so cold hearted, immoral and inconsiderate. but that is the ukraine dating industry. educated people commiting immoral acts because....they need the money.
last week i sent two letters to the same girl. one through an american managed agency in kherson. the other through anastasia. the reply from the american agency was that she was not interested because of my age. the reply from anastasia was the opposite. she was not only interested but she sent me photos.
there are a few people in this industry who are on your side. but i think its very few.
the only way, and this has been said many times, is join a site where you can get her informaiton right away. then if you can talk on the phone and she is always available for your calls and is excited to get a call from you, then she probably has likes you...
Please excuse our town joker (dansing) he has a hard time deciding whether to pleasure himself or scavenge for food... caveman mentality.
I reiterate; first establish a solid relationship by email then chat in "My World" or whatever social networking site she belongs to then graduate to skype vide and phone calls... afer that you will have a good understanding if she is legit or not... be very careful and remember this road is full of mine fields.
Same here, I upgraded to one month membership and read the pending emails from various ladies that had piled up. replied to the younger ones, deleted the way too older ladies and voila ! by next day had about 10 replies.
Please advise me: none of them had written back their email ids or phone nos. even though I had requested them to. I normally ask this, as there is is no point in writing a whole bunch of letters to a non-existent woman or worse HAIRY BORIS may be there masquerading as a woman (I had a lot of scammers writing to me in the past and still they write to me, in fact there seems to be no easy way to detect scammers nowadays, ..). So to cut the long story short, I look to talk to the woman on phone to ensure she exists.
I do understand that this is itself no guarantee, becoz agencies may be baiting me with a real woman, who has no idea to get married and move out of ukraine etc, and only setting me up for apartments rental, tours, introductions etc. So I did hope that the ladies were real and I would at least get some phone nos. or emails. I understand some ladies have agency email and do not have their own regular email accounts. they simply get registered at a marriage agency where they take care of their correspondence on their behalf and only talk on phone to the lady (I came across such a agency in Ukrain in lugansk recently that does this for the ladies, run by a one owner woman, and from all appearances is a genuine agency, but again all agencies are not so good or real in their intentions and motivations, so one has to be careful in this).
The only sure way I know is to have the direct one to one contact with the ladies with their direct email and phone nos. to know she is real and waiting for you REALLY at the end of a long trip, and not a fictitious person who says we have to contact the agency to contact her. Can any of you comment on your experience, whether it is same as mine and the ladies do not give or do not have their email ids and phone nos. and ignore our references to furnish the same in the letter correspondence ? does it sound abnormal to you or is it normal ? maybe they need more letter correspondence to give out these details ??
Mike Goldwin (Mike666)
You have a long road ahead of you to persue this adventure. You have only just begun and you are already talking about economic difficulty, you might want to reconsider the idea of an FSU woman.
I can tell you from my own experience that I am now 10 g in and the love of my life is not even here in the states yet. The persuit is only the tip of the iceberg. After that then you move on to the visa process to bring her to where ever you are. There is another few G's. You will be, like Martin said expected to make more than one visit. Then for many years to come, go and visit and most likely bring momma and pappa for a visit to where you two settle down.
I am not saying dont do it. Just know what you can and can not do and be absolutly up front with whomever you plan to have a relationship with. These women are not for the faint of heart and you will be tested at every turn. Be ready for the challenge or stay on the porch.
E-Mail and phone calls will not a scammer flush out. Fat Uri,Igore or Ivan will have at his disposal several females to gladly accept your phone calls after he writes you nice sweet letters and tells you he loves you and you should love him. Seriously man get them on video chat A.S.A.P. and if they will not go for that, then move on. Do not waste any time with them while they make excuses about how they do not have cell or e-mail. You can and will find a woman through the process that will seperate herself from the agency and if she will not then she either thinks you are not serious or she is not interested. There are genuine women but you will without a doubt find many many more wolves.
yes such can be quite typical of agency or dating sites, but i can only tell you the girls i have met over there seriously" have never asked me for a meeting and that's through hundreds of letters if not thousands.
the ones that have asked, i have never met other then my first trip I think, half turned out to be some kind of players,, its easy to see such for me after very little time now, it seems its all about time spent doing this, in years maybe for some, I think it took me two years to get a good handle on it.
me,, I wouldnít meet any person early in the letter writing, and if asked I would delete her yesterday,, sincere person I dealt, very questionable with such distances and moneys to travel, sincere girls are not stupid and know this.
i usually write for 6 months at the very least before i travel.
one thing you need to understand everyone dose this different, the way they go about it, so this forum will not help you as much as you may think.
Gecko is right, they as the typical player scamma or what ever with their social network, has little pity for you, but just enough to gain something, maybe another dollar, and this includes 99 percent of agencies.
all i can say is you need to take a trip there.
after been there you will understand the letters better through their social climate they live in, and how to approach such and the players little games including the massive fraud these agencies are..
thinking about it,, this is almost impossible to do or understand without doing time there, for me anyhow,, but once there if you have even half a brain you will learn fast.
my first trip, i was new to everything, didn't know about such forums, only what dating sites(agencies) said, and they are no different to what your politician tells you, let alone the thought of traveling to Russia or Ukraine and wondering about language problems..
i put together somewhere around 7 girls on a notorious pay site (Anastasia) in four different cities around Ukraine and went for a month with a friend.
my travel was booked through a Ukraine girl here in NZ(tourist operator)she booked all accommodation travel and sight seeing stuff, (I have a thing for battle grounds and cold war stuff, so I made girls only part of the reason for the trip,, well maybe kid myself.
the tourist operator took the head-ache away from organizing travel for my first visit.
all i had to think about was food alcohol and meeting/learning..
I had no great hidden cost unless I put myself into such, it was all pre organized at a ok price, I think $4500nz for all accommodation and train tickets pick ups, drop offs in Ukraine over the month, most site seeing stuff was extra.
it was an eye opener in some aspects but no real surprises in others and it was fantastic fun..
what i will never forget on my first days in Kiev(social climate) was an absolute beautiful Ukraine girl (stunning under that dirt)of maybe 17 years sitting in ragged clothes on some steps(uncommon such clothes) with a new born in her arms, a cup held out for moneys,,, the despair in that face was just terrible, i feel so guilty about walking past her now, i can only say i had the motto at the time "do what the Romans do in their land".
then one of my last trips an older dude on steps in Kharkov with his bottle of vodka sunning his smelly rotten foot, showing bone where his missing toes were, he had a "who gives a f*ck" look on his face..
what I'm getting at is if Ukraine's walk past these people with little thought, then your heart means shit to a lot, other then your wallet , don't get me wrong their are some more then great people there, but it is also a land about social climbing with little thought for others.
anyway i was lucky to meet an interpreter from an agency who hated the job which in its self is a small agency scam and told me more then she was suppose to about the girls(specially one i met with her:) in lugansk.
it was nice to meet an honest person in the agency game, I was finding it a very impersonal process and it is very much a game of girls getting free lunches and bad wine, out of the girls I did end up meeting, two of them i think were maybe honest, its very hard to say really..
that trip, i got what i needed, knowledge, a base for starting my search, where and how..
it is almost impossible to find what you are looking for on the first trip, so treat it more as a vacation fact finding mission, try and find a mate to go with to half the accommodation cost, and its good needed company.
but i reckon do meet as many girls as you can on that first trip, why not,, just for your need of understanding them, dig into their background and look for the crap they may spin, some will not show up at all, because you will pick wrong,,,, if they will let you into there family life, do it.
to give you an idea of my cost, and I do this on a budget,, that first trip in 2006 cost me 10,000nz, plane ticket included with half the accommodation paid for, for a month, I could have done it a lot cheaper, but my interest for battle grounds and such..
now i average 6,000nz for myself, that's including 3,000-3500nz for plane ticket and insurance for a month,, if I'm there for more months, 3000-4000nz a month..
the girl I meet sorts out my accommodation at Russian prices or i have almost no accommodation cost, it really just depends, bad accomadation is the killer of your funds if you are there for a major period..
one angle i use for looking for sincerity is what they will do for me, no player will do much for you when they have to work for it or try their social climbing game when they see you playing budget rules so use it as an advantage,, who wants a social climber..
I have never sent money to organize accommodation, they have payed if needed and I reinburce when there.
i travel for one girl only.
don't expect any great help if yo
When financial, i can do it just not to every girls i meet and several times a year...
Just seemed so sudden, maybe Iím old fashioned but there are steps along the stairs.
(Iíve read about a few nasty scams on this forum...)
I'm not in a hurry and know the difficulties visa, etcÖ
Not here for a model, but for a real woman just hard to flush out the scams so Iíll take it slow for now.
Dansing you are one direct man to say the least, lol it's either 8 or 80 no middle :)
They have a different world but mostly I agree with you MCooper
I will eventually make the vacations and expect to meet then just in my time not only theirs.