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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Crashed and Burned Author Post durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/29/2010 5:21:31 AM   I'm not a big fan of letter writing. I go for spontaneous (for example, "I'm in your town, care to meet?") This has resulted in many meetings, with much educational value for me, but no romance. I have made one exception -- we corresponded over an 8-month period. Many letters, frequent talks on Skype, sending flowers to her home, etc. etc. Though I tried for an early meeting, it took about 6 months after our first contact, before we finally met for a weekend. I had estimated the odds of finding chemistry in our meeting at about 1 in 6 -- I didn't take for granted, that sparks would fly. But I thought we had developed some genuine closeness as friends -- so I imagined she would be warm, if not romantic. To my surprise, she was rather cool (though gracious and generally kindly), and showed no outward sign of enthusiasm. OK, I thought, this didn't pan out. But in our saying good-bye, and our communication after the meeting, she expressed plenty of interest and enthusiasm about meeting again, and the possibilities of making a family life together. I was mightily confused. Had I missed something important? It took a while, but I worked to clear this up, trying (in a rather gentle way) to explain how things weren't making sense to me ... and what I would need from her, in order to continue. I didn't think it was very likely that the two of us were going anywhere, but before giving up, I wanted to try to resolve my confusion -- and to give it a real chance, in case there was a real opportunity. About 3 weeks ago, this came to a point in a flurry of emails, and a long Skype dialog (punctuated by her changing jobs and losing internet access for a while), in which I finally felt that she really understood the emotional connection that was missing for me, and what I needed to develop between us, in order to move forward. And I invited her to join me for a week in my favorite Russian city, to create the opportunity for some of the intimacy that was missing from our first meeting. She seemed really excited about my invitation, but needed to check some practical arrangements before agreeing. A day or so later, I got her "yes", and the dates she could come. I bought an air ticket for her. Two days later, we "met" on Skype (at her friend's house, she has no internet at home). I was looking forward to talking about preparations for our meeting... ...and instead got the news that her daughter didn't want her to go away for the week. And indeed, did not want to leave Russia, or her school and friends. And was content to have Mama to herself. After some rather heart-rending dialog, she wrote that I would must search for another woman. This was 9 days ago, today. There have been many "ups" and "downs" ... more than I wrote here, I tried to keep this concise. I still want to cry about it. There were times when it seemed like a real chance, for my dreams to come true. For the record, I believe that she has been basically honest with me, except in the normal ways people "keep their cards covered" in the process of dating. Except for a few bucks I put into her mobile phone account, she got no financial benefit. (I was able to cancel the air ticket, and get a refund.) She never asked for money (won't explain here, but she had the perfect scenario to ask during the 8 months). The only likely deception I see, is in the story about cancelling our meeting ... I believe what she told me about her daughter, but if she really had feelings about me, she would have found a way to work through this. It was easier for her to talk about the kid, than to directly address what was going on in her heart. I believe that for the most part, the confusing signals I got from her, reflected her confusion about her own feelings. Also for the record, I didn't meet the child. She didn't want to make our first meeting in her city, so we met instead in Moscow. I am very connected to children, and if I had met her daughter, perhaps things would have developed differently -- only God knows. I know that her child sleeps with a stuffed animal I gave to her :) I don't know, whether there is any moral to this story. I'm one of those often ridiculed old guys, who is trying to find love across a very big age difference (52, she is 34), because at my late stage in life, I want to father a baby and hope to find a woman who is young enough to have good medical chances for this. Of course, most women prefer a man who is not more than 10 years older, or maybe pushing it 15 years. But for women of 37+ (38 or 39, by the time we could be together and married), the risks grow very rapidly. My heart is in my shoes, and today my dream seems very distant. Thanks in advance, for any sincere replies you men are moved to make on this thread. Muzzy Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/29/2010 8:49:45 AM   Durak, my heart breaks for you my friend. If there's anything I can do (which I admit is little indeed), just ask. I had a similar (but lesser) experience a few months ago, so I can certainly relate. As the saying goes, it's always darkest before dawn. Of all the people I've met who are on this same journey I am, you seem to be the one with the best shot of making this dream come true, and if any justice exists in this world, then you'll achieve your dream and more. We've never met but still, I'm standing beside you mate. rusKEN Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/29/2010 3:25:07 PM   Durak, that is sad to hear and unfortunate. Often, I feel like I am racing against time (biological clock). If not now then when? It is possible that she could change her mind, but how long is someone willing to wait in months or even years? Certaintly, not I. devilmaycare Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/29/2010 3:29:31 PM   Well it just shows that it can happen to anyone. Even someone with plenty of experience of russian culture and language such as yourself. I had broadly similar experience with a russian woman. On our first meeting we spent 4 days in an apartment together and by the end of it she wasn't even comfortable holding my hand, despite the fact that we seemed to get on really well. When we talked after the meeting she said she "wanted to continue" with me but I knew it was a non starter so didn't pursue it further. It seems that this is actually a quite common scenario and my theory is this: A russian woman decides that she will find a husband overseas in order to improve her life and that of her child (or future children). She approaches this is a typical russian womans way of finding someone with decent prospects (not necessarily wealthy, shes not a gold digger as such) that she at least likes and respects. A say typical because traditionally russian woman often marry for practical reasons: for somewhere to live of her own, for more stability and freedom (this is the reality despite the propaganda that the bride industry is spewing out). Hence it is absolutely natural for her to apply the same process for seeking a husband overseas and this is where it starts to go wrong. For the most part she wont realise the man is not also doing likewise - that he expects genuine strong mutual attraction and a bit of chemistry, and not just a friend. She may even indulge in a bit of pre-meeting romantic banter because according to her local mating protocol you are suppose to at least pretend to "love" each other a little bit even though you both know the main reason your getting hitched is get a place to live away from both your parents (or whatever). Of course once you've had the first meeting the problems start... * from her POV she met a man who was clinically sane, could afford to put a roof over her head, probably wouldn't beat her, and her and her child (actual or future) would get vastly improved general quality of life and prospect. So she did not feel a rush of physical attraction or chemistry, but that would have been a mere bonus if it had happened. You of course must also have been delighted with how attractive, intelligent, cultured, and charming she was and how well she dressed. * from your POV - you met a woman who despite how enthusiastic she seemed was, by your standards, very cool and distant for a potential future life partner. She was very polite and pleasant but displayed none of the casual physical affection that you would expect from a future girlfriend/wife. Batman Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/29/2010 6:10:27 PM   Durak, Sorry to hear your sad story. This may be an example of why we need to get beyond letter writing and phone calls and go there meet her. There's more to this chemistry thing than we all would care to admit. Sometimes, something little can throw the whole thing off and you'll only know that by a face-to-face meeting. (It could be something that she does too and despite the beauty shown in her pictures there could be something that you just can't live with.) Again, sorry Durak. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/29/2010 7:03:43 PM   Gentlemen, Thank you deeply for your truly thoughtful and kind words. @muzzy: Your moral support is more valuable, than I can put into words. @devilmaycare: I'll never know what was going on in her head, and her heart... but everything in the picture you painted, is consistent with what I experienced -- and also with some things I have learned about modern Russian culture. @batman: As I sometimes say, "I'm no Brad Pitt" -- I know that I'm not the man that most women look twice at, and that it takes a special girl to appreciate me (such beauty as I possess, is mostly inside :) ). I also know that I can't understand my attraction to her only from pictures etc. -- things like body language, eye contact, my impression of her physical health and vigor, etc. are very important to me. So my policy is meet as soon as can be managed. With this woman, I proposed to meet her within a few days of our first contact (as it happened, I was already in Russia at the time, and could have gone out to her town for just a few hundred dollars. But she said she wanted us to become better acquainted first by the internet, and as I later learned, didn't want to make a first meeting in her city anyway. Other circumstances in both our lives, delayed the first meeting quite a while. Today, I remind myself that purpose and meaning can be found in every experience. I believe that God wants me to learn something from this -- as time passes, I hope that will understand. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/29/2010 7:39:49 PM   My opinion is that it displys a lack of seriousness, of forward planning, on the part of many of these ladies, not just durak's lady but many of them. Before web profiling, to move to another land, it is only reasonable to check it out with affected parties, family members including parents and/or children, I believe her 'child' excuse to be nothing more than that, an excuse, presuming that durak is from the US there are ways to talk a child around, if not overnight then over a period of time, temptations of Disneyland/Disneyworld, lots of warm weather etc. etc. etc. but it would appear that durak's lady didn't make that effort, presunably by choice. It's all too easy for these ladies to profile on the web because, literally, the men pay for everything, particularly the expensive trips to visit these ladies! ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/29/2010 7:42:03 PM   Mark 4:1-20 Batman Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/29/2010 11:17:18 PM   @batman: As I sometimes say, "I'm no Brad Pitt" -- I know that I'm not the man that most women look twice at, and that it takes a special girl to appreciate me (such beauty as I possess, is mostly inside :) ). I also know that I can't understand my attraction to her only from pictures etc. -- things like body language, eye contact, my impression of her physical health and vigor, etc. are very important to me. So my policy is meet as soon as can be managed. I'm not even referring to a physical attraction scenario here. Something trivial that will always drive you crazy. I'm a big fan of the show Seinfeld. Look at all the things that caused Jerry to break up with a girlfriend. (i.e. Man hands) I was once set up with a lady that was always interrupting me and other people. She didn't last long. These are the things you'll only know from a face-to-face meeting. Kepp your chin up Durak. baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/30/2010 8:41:47 AM   "proposed to meet her within a few days of our first contact (as it happened, I was already in Russia at the time, and could have gone out to her town for just a few hundred dollars. But she said she wanted us to become better acquainted first by the internet, and as I later learned, didn't want to make a first meeting in her city anyway. Other circumstances in both our lives, delayed the first meeting quite a while." From my limited experience, this should have been an expected reaction. The serious women are also very careful about "jumping in" and rushing to meet a man, especially one that is so insistent on meeting so soon. The Durak may have been your first mistake. They receive letters from lots of guys and according to my Alla, many of them are real perverts and sex tourists. It seems natural to me that they would want to correspond first to get to know you before jumping in and meeting with you. And to devil's comments, yes there may be two different approaches to the marriage relationship. This is what you both as adults have to vet out. How can you expect to fall in emotional love with someone who you have only met for a few days? Or never met but look at pictures? You the man have to separate your relationship goals and criteria from your emotional goals and criteria. I hope that makes sense. Then when you both agree to possibly marry and get together, then you continue in earnest to get to know each other better. You both should have an understanding that when you do get together, that you both will be honest with each other and do your best. Emotional love may come later on and it will take great committment. Obviously having a good understanding of what you want is key. And back to Durak, if you think just because you are an American in Russia, that tons of women will flock to you just because of that, forget it. They are more Western than most will allow them. They may be curious but they also have usually carved a nice life for themselves and just the fact you are there means nothing. You the person will have to be interesting enough for them to get close to you. AnamCharaid Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/30/2010 12:41:37 PM   I suspect that many women post profiles on international dating sites out of curiosity to see what type of response they will get and that when the final hurdle is in view, i.e asked to leave their homeland, they back off. baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/30/2010 1:21:04 PM   I want to father a baby and hope to find a woman who is young enough to have good medical chances for this. You might fare better looking to Asian countries for this specific requirement. baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/30/2010 1:31:59 PM   in which I finally felt that she really understood the emotional connection that was missing for me, I'll state it again. Two people can not have that magical emotional connection based soley on correspondence and neither based on a few days meeting for the first time ever. Yes you can have that initial attraction, jump into the sack, etc etc, but not deep emotional feelings and deep love for each other. I will admit that my wife and I talked about that even though we agree that we would agree to marry and proces the visa and for her to move here with me. We never told each other we even loved each other until much later in the process. So to durak, maybe you also have too high of expectation of this process. You may have to have that leap of faith and understand that as long as the woman and you are totally compatible and meet each other's criteria and agree to work at the relationship, then all that emotional stuff may happen later. Of it may not and how important that is relative to everything else (you each provide what the other is seeking). ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/1/2010 4:06:05 PM   Mr. Durak, you need to get her off your mind by replacing it with someone else. It happened to me. I knew my mind was going to turn into spaghetti if I dwelled on it. I had four years of no dates before I first went to Ukraine. I was overly cautious with these American women, never giving them a chance to steal my heart. Then I went to Ukraine. She was beautiful and expected to be treated like a woman, as opposed to the liberated American woman. Our relationship was going nowhere and with just two or three days left in Ukraine, I left her in the middle of the night. It hit me like a brick wall when I got to my hotel room that I had fallen for her. I never have cried over a woman before, let alone out loud. By I did that night. I tried to get back my relationship with her, but it was too late. I even called a relationship that went the other way in Zaporozhye to call her. A date with the bell hop's wife's best friend, helped somewhat, but I was in the same boat after she left. As I look at her picture now, she was beautiful, and was trying to get a relationship with me. I was not going to let that get in the way of my heartbreak and found reasons why it would not work. She was only 26 and had a kid with a good relationship with her father. I didn't want to ruin that. I remember her explaining to me that there was a 25 year difference between her father and mother. As soon as she left, I was in the same boat. I got out of it by deciding and starting right then and there to find another. That's when my feelings and thoughts started to subside. I'm sure I can still revive my feelings for that first woman under the right circumstances, but that's long gone. Kirkland Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/1/2010 4:18:50 PM   Nice post RB...alot of what you says rings true. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/2/2010 2:48:14 PM   What is difficult with this situation is to not think about the woman I fell in love with. Still, my mind had to be preoccupied with something. Here is the woman I am talking about: http://mastervox.com.ua/artists/estrada/alla_zaginayko She is younger here. As many women in the sites, they use pictures when they were younger. I visited her when she was 38. She is 41 now. She is a lovely woman, but she hates my guts. If you run into her, tell her Ragingbull says hello. figgis Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/5/2010 3:13:26 PM   I think in all honesty a vast amount of the women are just fishing and are not in touch with reality by western standards, in this i mean maybe western men are more forward in their expectations, I met a girl and she was very formal not at all physical in her aproach and was a very inteligent woman, her non physical aproach, which was vitualy no affection at all eventualy put me off. When i finaly ended things with her it became clear through her sorrow that she was much more fond of me than she actualy showed and she had plans for our future, it left me to think that i had maybe i had missed something. The next girl i met was the complete oposite she was very hands on and was no more than a hooker looking for a pay day, sorry to say it yes i got stitched on a very bad gold digger pro date scam who was more than happy to tell me how great i was and how much she loved me but she always had one eye on my money and sadly this woman made me feel worse than the first girl because she fooled me. I just think at the end of the day it all boils down to chemistry. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/14/2010 12:57:01 PM   I just spent a while in Russia. Now that I'm back home, I again thank you all for your thoughtful messages. Just for the record -- to baron's comments -- I didn't expect romance on our first meeting. We had communicated a lot. Her mama fell ill and died (cancer) between our first contact and our eventual meeting, and over the months I did my best to "hold her hand" from 10 time zones away. Our Skype conversations felt really warm to me, with some genuine opening of hearts. I did hope, for that warmth of friendship to be present in our meeting, and was rather taken aback that she seemed almost bored. We had more communication about this afterward, which helped me to understand what happened in our meeting, but I didn't want to post a book-length story here. I wasn't particular expecting any romance in the hoped-for second meeting. I would have been happy to see her simply relax and open up around me. And I never thought that "just because [I am] an American in Russia, that tons of women will flock to [me]." The women who DO flock to Americans, are exactly the ones I wish to avoid. As to the comments about some of the women not being serious or prepared: I personally know 3 mothers of young children, whose ex-husbands (they were confident) would not give permission for their children to leave the country! They were all quite bright -- I know that one was sincerely seeking a partner, and I think the other two as well -- but they made online profiles without "thinking through" the feasibility of marriage with a foreign man. Sigh. I've given quite a lot of thought to the challenges of an international family, and practical measures to respond to them. Obviously, many of the ladies post profiles rather impulsively -- after all, it doesn't cost them a ruble. gecko Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/21/2010 9:45:08 PM   have you considered vietnam or the phillipines? great women living in a culture that respects age. Also I have met many thai women living in thailand who are as sweet as can be. Durak, its been my experience that sensitive and serious guys in ukraine get chewed up and spit out. But this isn't the case in other countries i have lived in. i agree with baron. try asia. rusKEN Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/22/2010 7:40:13 AM   @gecko Have not been to FSU yet, but I have been to Vietnam and know well of the culture. For the most part, what you say is true. However, if someone is wanting a Vietnamese model looking wife, that cooks & clean, well.. that would be another crash and burn. If "cute" is good enough then there shouldn't be much of a problem. Sometimes I feel that people seeking foreign wives has too high of an expectation. The girls are people living an unideal life, NOT slaves waiting to be freed. BTW if it matters, FSU women are tall & long, while asian women are small and thin :) Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Crashed and Burned
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