Well, I'm at my last day in Kiev. This is trip 5 to Ukraine in the last 12 months, so I guess I can now say I've properly explored the place, the people, the culture and my chances. For the record, I've been purposefully taking a long-term view to this (i.e., not expecting to come home engaged from any one particular trip), as I tend to think it's 'easy come, easy go' when it comes to relationships. Long lasting = long groundwork. Also for the record, I've used fiance.com for the most part, but also elenasmodels, and a few free sites which have come to nothing, so I won't bother naming them.
100% of meetings through fiance.com has been with an agency girl. 100% of meetings through elenasmodels has been direct contact. There have been plusses and minuses to both. The agency meetings have been well organised, with me being picked up at the airport, driven everywhere, given one contact number for meetings, apartments, taxi's etc. While this CAN BE the pricier option, it's also by far the most convenient. I know people have differing opinions on the agencies, but my experience has been that, as long as they're not being overly expensive, then they're ok to use (principally because gauging prices are a good sign of a dishonest agency).
AGENCIES:
"Sumylove" in Sumy (surprisingly!). Average price taxi (not the cheapest, not the most expensive) average price apartment, but out in the wilderness somewhere (leaves you a bit dependant on the agency for transport unless you're feeling adventurous). Majority of girls are genuine and excited to meet, whether through correspondence or 'instant' introductions. The agency owner will give warning against meeting any particular girl who she knows to not be legit. Not the prettiest girls in my age range, but if you're looking for 35+, there's some stunners feeling lonely out there. Happy for you to exchange personal details etc. with girls, without any hint of a charge - this is only once you've arrived, though. Beforehand, they'll charge for the privilege.
"Canadros" in Mariupol. Overpriced taxi, but very competitive apartment. Very good translator (for quality and honesty), and overrall ok. Again, personal details exchanged without problems, including via correspondence (I got a mobile number before meeting the girl, with no hassle whatsoever. Didn't even need to ask)
"Kiev Connections" in (again, it's a surprise) Kiev. Not the best selection, but they will warn against any 'dishonest' girls they know of. Like the others, they do seem to have a genuine desire to see their 'nice' girls married. American owned, and Brett is a businessman. $40 per introduction, and they're pay-per-letter. I refuse to do correspondence this way, so I just did the 'turn up & say hi' thing. Worked out ok. I got one genuine girl and one good-time-girl. Two warnings: when I told the agency that one girl had invited her friends to the restaurant, and all had a good meal on me before disappearing (hey, it was my first time), the agency seemed neither surprised nor bothered. The girl stayed on their website, wasn't removed (Sumylove would have done this - I know from experience), so don't expect too much honesty here. Secondly, their apartments are about 1.5 - 2 times more expensive than you can find independently.
"Daisybride" in Kiev. I know, the name sounds daft, but they're ok. Their introductions are more expensive than KC ($60 a throw), and they're a much smaller agency. I had one date through them, it went ok (nothing long-term there). They seemed more helpful than KC, though. Very friendly, and they don't do apartments (they say they can 'put you in touch' with apartment owners if you want, but they don't ask you or push you about it - it's just an option you can ask for if you want).
Through the agencies, I've met a mixture of honest, dishonest, plain, stunning, no-English to fluent, of ages 18 - 38. It's a big world with all kinds of people, and the same seems true of the land of the marriage agency
DIRECT CONTACT:
Well, on this trip I've avoided the agencies. All my contacts (I say all - I mean 3) were through elenasmodels (which I suppose is an agency, after a fashion). In all cases, mobile numbers/email addresses given in the first week of correspondence. However, one was a serious gold-digger (I found out before meeting, but not before arriving in Kiev). The other two were genuine, but it ain't gonna work out, for different reasons. It's been okay doing this 'direct meeting' thing in Kiev, as this is a really easy city to get to, get around in, and generally live in. I've been learning Russian for a few months now, and I'm starting to be able to get away with a few sentences, however I'm eternally glad that pretty much every restaurant and cafe here is staffed by passable-English speakers. This whole 'direct' dating (i.e., without an agency) does leave you on your own a lot more. If your lady can't take time off work, or perhaps the first meeting doesn't go as planned, then you're on your own until you get something set up yourself. If you're going to do things this way, don't come without plenty of backups and internet access!! Preferably in your accommodation. Also, make sure you're within easy reach of restaurants, and can get together enough English to at least ask if they have an English menu (all cities have restaurants that do, in varying percentages)
SOCIAL CONTACT:
Overrall, I'd say this is the best way to do things. Just meeting people here, in normal, social contexts (like you would back home), tends to produce more 'real' and 'lasting' relationships. For instance, because I came for a date in Mariupol, I became aware of a church there, which I made contact with. I've now visited them twice, and a few members are now coming out to visit my church in September. I now have a bunch of friends on VK who I talk to all the time and, of course, some of them are women. There's one particular lady I've known there for a while, but we never really got to talking until this last trip. I noticed she was making excuses to be around me, and when I went to her house for tea with a few others, she was giggly and nervous (the guys I went with were complaining that she kept calling them beforehand, asking what time I'd be there).
I'm not saying anything will necessarily come from this, but it looks interesting to say the least. What I like most, though, is that neither of us met while looking through the 'date a foreigner' channel. We were acquaintances, now we're friends. I suppose I have a few months of VK chatting and probably skyping before I go back out there - I guess I'll see what happens. Either way, there are hundreds of people I'm now socially connected to in Mariupol, all with female friends and relatives. By staying 'in the loop', I seem to be losing the need for agencies. My subscription on fiance.com has expired while I've been here, and my elenasmodels subscription is soon to follow. The way things stand now, I don't see a reason to renew either. My toe's in the water, and it's quite warm :)
Of course, if it all goes wrong and I have to go back to either website, then perhaps I'll follow the advice and go for Russian girls instead :)
Right, must go. My flight's in the morning, and the restaurants of Maidan are calling my name :)
Thanks for the post muzzy, those of us who are trying to serious contribute to this forum need to try to keep the signal/noise ratio up and not be scared off by "them".
A note about Sumy love agency they have an apartment close to the river with a beach that is reasonable. I'll give it a go on my next trip. I have met a total of 4 ladies from there agency from age 31-41. I also met a lady from Elena's in Kiev and one from Natashaclub ( pay per letter thing). Natashaclub girl didn't work out but learned a lot and made some friends. Elenasmodels, met a great girl and had blast all week but just friends. of the 4 sumylove aka chance girls I met all were ok but one she was fantastic. we hit it off right away and I will be seeing her again soon. to bad I met her the day before going back. all in all I have learned a great deal about the culture and way of life there over the last 3 years. my search may have come to an end time will tell. I don't think how you meet is as important as meeting in person. letter writing is ok just to make contact but you start from the beginning when you meet in person.
Muzzy, as always great post. I find it interesting that you say 'direct contact' with women you met through EM. I did find it interesting that from that 'agency' I was able to amass a great deal of contacts in a very reasonable amount of time. It must also be great to have the luxury to travel as much as you do. Back to EM-- I had contact with many who I felt were real. And I had my 'little black book' of contacts from those. Fortunately I met my wife early on in my travels. But there were still many I did not have a chance to meet personally that I exchanged very good information with. I think that it is possible to acquire a list of potential ladies through this 'agency'. Then as time allows address them if needed. I will say there were a few who were suspect. One actually from Minsk who I was going to meet until she insisted I send $200 for her to get visa for Ukraine. Then one from a small town who wanted $$ to meet me in Kiev. When I insisted on traveling to meet her -- the end. And one from Don-whatever. It never got to a point of meeting as I researched her and discovered she was a pro. But the ratio of real to 'pros' I think was very great. Unfortunately I left a few hanging for a while. But I did let a few know when I took myself off the market. Hopefully others will follow you and your approach. All things being equal, the well prepared will come out on top.