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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Quick Advice Author Post Simpleton Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 11:16:02 AM   I went out with a girl yesterday and again today. Everything seemed fine until we went shopping for souvenirs for my family, at which point she asked if I would take her shopping (through the interpreter). When I said no, her demeanor completely changed. By body language and tone when she was speaking with the interpreter she was *not* happy. I mentioned going out dancing later and at first she said no, but eventually said yes. I'm meeting her again tonight, and need to decide if I will see her again after that. Is her asking me to take her shopping a bad sign (i.e. a shopper)? Or, would it be considered rude because I said no? It may have been a different thing if it was more. . . organic, I guess, but asking the interpreter (who was noticeably uncomfortable translating the request) didn't feel right. Second note. The club I suggested going to she said no to. The translator thought it was because she has a lot of friends that may go there, and why she didn't want to go there with me (but did not know for sure). I asked the translator to call her and ask if that was the reason, though the response was just "I don't like that club" and she would find another place to go. I would think that if she has a preferred place she would say where, not "somewhere else". I'm supposed to meet back up with her in 2 hours, so throw a poor guy a bone as quick as you can. 1...2...3...go! Olga Moderator send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 11:33:46 AM   well, go to the club that she prefers for sure. You should have had YOUR translator not her translator, so find your self your translator, so you can dump her at any time and not get lost. Girls like gifts. so do not be cheap. Be yourself. Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 11:44:53 AM   you should not go shopping for things for your family while you are on a date with a girl you just met. do that in your 'free' time. sure girls want gifts but to demand a shopping spree? you need to get your own personal translator. go and just have fun. try to get to know her. but before you meet again find a neutral person (one who works for you) to do the translation and meet with this person alone first. Simpleton Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 11:47:58 AM   About the interpreter. The interpreter is from the girls agency, but I have a very good feeling about her. She actually seemed very skeptical about the girl from the very beginning. She wouldn't say anything outright, but warned me about the shopping thing, almost first thing out of her mouth. Also, we've had a couple conversations without the girl around, and again I get a really good vibe from the translator, honest vibe. She as actually much more interested in setting me up with a another girl who is fluent (would have been my first choice, but the one I met I had been communicating with for a little bit of time before my trip). The translator was actually suggesting relatively strongly that I cancel tonight. So, for being from the agency, I'm pretty comfortable with her and her advice/opinion and not dropping me where I stand. Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 11:48:57 AM   I know ladies here in the good ole us of a that won't go on a date with a new guy to some place that many of her friends hang out. I wouldn't worry about it. think about it for a minute - they are all going to ask her all about you... I'd spot her that one. Simpleton Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 11:49:59 AM   Ralph - We were sitting at dinner/lunch, and they didn't know what to do. It was their suggestion, though I appreciate the advise for the future. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 12:18:51 PM   Simpleton, One thing that occurs to me ..... have you given her a present, something you took with you from home or a bottle of her favourite perfume or similar? You're right not to get taken shopping but, from her point of view, and if you haven't presented her with a gift, it probably comes across as selfish that you are buying gifts for others but not for her, i.e. she's not important enough to you to warrant a gift from you! Rick4girl Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 4:08:00 PM   First of all, I still dont like the idea of a guy going to Ukraine/Russia without a lick of Russian knowledge and being dependent upon translators for everything. Gee wizz, if you are going to seek a girl in another country at least spend 900 bucks or go to library and buy Pimseuler language course and DO IT. You are never going to get to know the girl enough through a 3rd wheel. Ive had several first dates with translator simply because the girl was nervous and agency provided it for her to be comfortable or the agency was "protective" of their best girls,lol Being able to speak at least "survival" Russian shows the girl you are interested in her. second, if you didnt have a gift for a girl that you have been conversing with prior to your arrival then thats just plain rude on your part. ANY gentleman always gives a gift, even a small one or flowers...SOMETHING! thirdly, dont be so desperate to find a girl and dont expect that you will find her the very first time you travel there because that is just so very rare although I have seen it happen. Always be yourself, be straight and also be honest with yourself. If a girl doesnt seem interested in you then she probably isnt, cut your losses and move on. Just like in America, you will know if she likes you, ESPECIALLY by a third date(by 3rd date you should be spending the night together,lol) And of course remember, you ARE going to spend ALOT of money in your quest. One cannot find a wife on a budget, this is NOT possible. You dont have to be rich, Im certainly not at 40-50k/yr, but if you cant afford to go at least 2-3 times per year to meet and then develop relationships then you are wasting your time. Simpleton Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 4:40:36 PM   Ok, that was splendidly horrid. The whole thing ended up being so ridiculous I had a hard time not chuckling the entire time. I’m interested in what all you “old pros” think. A big part of the deal was I hadn’t given her anything. The other, it seems one should never offer them the leftovers from dinner. I picked up on something (still) being wrong as soon as she arrived in the taxi. Like, she wouldn’t look at me. Ok, I get the hospitality thing (only explanation I can think of why she was there instead of cancelling altogether), but she wasn’t being hospitable, just passively hostile. We get to the place she chose (I had mentioned going out dancing), and it was more of a restaurant/café that had a DJ playing music outside. I had mentioned a popular dance club in the city earlier, so I was a little surprised. Well, I wasn’t really hungry, but it looks like that is what we are going to be doing. We end up sitting there with almost no conversation at all. I’m usually pretty good in most situations, but I couldn’t think of something to say/ask to save my life. We had discussed a lot of the “easy” stuff in correspondence and the 2 earlier meetings (and having to talk through a translator is not the same as regular free flowing conversation). Dinner went pretty much that way, almost all of the conversation going on between her and the interpreter. We had some bbq type thing for the three of us, and there was over half left over. The interpreter asked me if I wanted to bring the leftovers back to my hotel room. I declined only because I have no way to heat it back up in the hotel room. So, being what I thought was courteous, I asked the lady if she wanted them, and holy hell broke loose. She knows some English and was trying earlier in the day when things were going well. But all of a sudden she said more words together in English than the 2 previous meetings. Something about if she wanted this kind of meat she would go buy it and cook it, then something about rather being a “dog in the street” (true quote there) than take it home, and then something about she will never be able to go to that restaurant again without remembering (at least I left an impression). Then she finally opened up about the rest of it, even though I had tried open up the subject earlier. It all stemmed from me not giving her anything yet (we met for dinner the night before, then a walk by the sea earlier in the day followed by lunch and the now infamous souvenir shopping). One of the issues had to do with me not being able to find a flower shop/kiosk/whatevertheycallem. I had planned on getting her some flowers before the earlier meeting, but when I had gone on about a 6 mile walk the day before, the closest one was miles away. Me and my very limited Russian don’t work well with taxis if it doesn’t have a specific name, so if it isn’t in walking distance I’m kinda screwed. So, I didn’t get her any flowers earlier in the day (not to mention I over slept, so I only had time to get ready before meeting her if I wanted to be on time). Then she asked for shopping, which didn’t feel right, so I said no. Then we were supposed to meet up tonight, but to go dancing, and me being practical assumed that having to carry flowers around all night would not be conducive to a night on the town. All seem valid to me, even at this point, but when we finally started talking about it, it didn’t matter anymore. So, for you guys that have been around Ukrainian/Russian women a lot, or those married to them, is what I did so unforgivable? Not that it matters in this particular situation, I’m done (as I’m sure she is too), but I’m just curious. Also, what is so offensive about the leftovers thing? The translator didn’t seem to get it either. Actually, the only reason I said anything was because the translator asked me if I wanted to take them, and only after explaining why I did not, asked the lady if she wanted to take them. When speaking with the translator, she said that the lady just kept on and on about it. I get the impression it was on par with attempting to solicit her. I’m half tempted to send a farewell letter to her, though to what purpose I have no idea. In some ways to apologize, though even if she finally accepted it (which she didn’t at dinner) I don’t see anything fruitful coming from trying any further (not to mention, I’m a virgin when it comes to all this, this was the first woman I have actually met, so I’m probably less used to the cut and run mentality that is required with all of this). The other part is to kinda lay into her about it. I mean, shouldn’t some leeway be given due to cultural differences? She knew this was my first time in country and that I had never met with any other Ukrainian/Russian/MailOrder women. Oh, and thanks for reminding me I'm ugly Danny. Without your subtle reminder, it would have completely slipped my mind. Simpleton Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 5:17:31 PM   Danny - oh, you forgot fat too. FSULover Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 7:19:21 PM   Simpleton, Maybe your nickname is right. You are too simple for FSU girls. I am not trying to insult you, so please try to understand me. But if what I read is the true story, you have much to learn before a worthy FSU woman will give you her undivided attention. Maybe this was not the right girl, but even the right girl would have been upset, based on my experience. This is only MY opinion. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 7:32:53 PM   Simpleton, Your big mistake was to discuss with her that you were buying gifts for others but, as you admit, you didn't buy anything for her ..... imagine yourself on a night out with a group of friends, one friend offers to buy drinks for everybody, everybody except you ..... how would you feel? All one has to do is remark, one evening, how nice her perfume smells, she mentions the name of it and one sneaks off the next day to buy a bottle of it for her. It amazes me that one can pay for the expenses of travelling halfway around the world, accommodation and subsistence expenses etc. yet can't even think to offer a small gift to the one that one is visiting. If I go to visit friends, family, whatever locally I'll think nothing of taking a box of chocolates with me, they only cost a few dollars but bring a smile to the recipients face. Alas ..... back to the drawing board for you Simpleton. devilmaycare Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 9:04:31 PM   Shes a pro-dater no doubt whatsoever. A genuine girl would never ask for a shopping trip. The left overs thing was a smoke screen, yes it would probably be offensive but thats beside the point here. You should have taken the interpreters advice and ditched for the other girl. If your still there, forget this girl and fix up a date with this other one. Your lucky to have an on-side interpreter so make make good use of her. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 9:35:10 PM   Devil, Was she after a shopping trip or was she merely hinting that a gift for her, amongst the other gifts he was buying for others, might be appreciated? Have you never dropped a hint? And as for offering left overs from dinner in lieu of a gift, well if I were a lady I'd have reacted a lot stronger than she did and likely to have tipped those left overs over his head. :) bowhunter Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/11/2010 11:22:00 PM   it still amazes me how people will fly that far and not do any research on the culture. I'm sure he has learned quire a bit in a short time better luck on your next attempt. Simpleton Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/12/2010 12:30:32 AM   I researched the culture as best I could (though I couldn't find the manual out there when I looked), but obviously didn't understand the importance of the gifting. As for who the souvenirs were for, the souvenirs were for a 7 and a 10 year old, not parents, siblings, friends, etc. She knew that. Probably doesn't make much difference, but there it is. I did ask the translator about the gifting once I started to get a better idea about the importance, but she didn't think it was a big deal. Have I learned a lot. Sure. Have I made the wisest decisions, definitely not. I never considered she might take the leftovers as a gift. I have been using Pimsluer, just not as long as I should have before making this trip. I know ignorance is not a good excuse, but isn't there some leeway given? Personally I tend to be very forgiving in the opposite situation. For example, on second date at home a woman asks me to take her shopping I cut and run. So when she asked I chalked it up as cultural thing, whether it is or not. This really is the one I'm most interested about. Is it automatically assumed I should have read some ettiquette manual that I do not know exists? And if I haven't, is there no consideration for intent even if a mistake is made? I'm sure I'm being naive here, but expanding on the last point a bit more. I'm sure women at home would absolutely love it if I wanted to take them shopping when I barely knew them. Some would anyway. Others would feel I was trying to buy my way into their pants or that my worth as a person was directly tied to my pocket book. So, some of the gifting could be slavic culture, but isn't it also possible that the insistence is a partial manifestation of men trying to buy affection/prove their worth in a country where their money will go much further than where it was earned? FSULover - Please explain. The story is true though the entire back story, mainly comprised of some significant miscommunication, was not included. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/12/2010 1:20:15 AM   This is an interesting conversation. I hope, Simpleton, that you are learning from experience! Some scattered thoughts about what I read... 1. For me, it's very important to bring a gift when meeting after a big correspondence. If it is fine and thoughtful, size and price aren't so important. 2. "shouldn’t some leeway be given due to cultural differences?" For many FSU women, the answer is Not on Your Bloody Life. That a man is in disorientingly unfamiliar surroundings, jet-lagged, and finding even simple tasks to be quite a challenge, means nothing. To take account of another's difficulties requires putting oneself in the other person's shoes ... well, many of these ladies are thinking too much about their own shoes -- or those they dream of acquiring soon -- for that. On the other side of that coin, how much leeway did YOU give, due to her cultural differences? 3. I took an FSU girl I was romancing to a mighty expensive (but really excellent) restaurant. Some of our order was bigger than we expected, and she was happy to take food home for her Mama to enjoy. But we already knew each other well, and she is absolutely not a "princess". And maybe it helped her mood that at this dinner, I presented her with some beautiful blue sapphire jewelry... 4. To become an expatriate is enormously hard. For a woman to be able to make a good new life in another country, I believe that she must be patient, understanding, extremely flexible, sunny (focusing on what's great and letting disappointments pass), compassionate, and blessed with an excellent sense of humor. How do you think the lady you met did, at showing these qualities? 5. I sincerely salute those of you men who have met women you had romantic hopes with, using an interpreter to converse. For me, this would be too uncomfortable. Huck Finn Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/12/2010 3:06:37 AM   Well, this a good way to immediately find out if you are dealing with a scammer or a total bitch. The trouble is, it's like digging your well too close to the septic system. Regardless how good the water is, it still tastes like piss and you're knee deep in dung. Gone again skip to may lou Rick4girl Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/12/2010 3:11:44 AM   "hes a pro-dater no doubt whatsoever. A genuine girl would never ask for a shopping trip." this not always true, especially with really young girls, say 18-24. They have access to facebook and American TV and movies and get their impression of America and American men from those sources. They look at what American jobs pay because they want to come to America and do such job. Compared to them, you ARE rich and dont understand what the big deal is for an American man to spend 1-200 bucks on them. Ive almost always told a girl what i make plus what it costs me to live in America before we ever meet in real. They can "do the math" and understand the numbers and will decide quickly if they think you can afford them. Most of the young ones Ive dated will even have something picked out that they really have wanted for some time but cant afford and want you to get them as kind of a test to see what "kind" of guy you are. Often they will have already told you during your conversations before you come. Ive bought cell phones, cameras and last time brought a video camera from home for the girl I spent time with in June and August and can say that if the girl is really interested in you and is attracted to you she will be tickled pink when you actually buy it for her. (besides, the one she wanted was on sale at Fry's for only 100 bucks and was 200 in Ukraine) I always tell them lets go out and see how things go. I say "If everything will be good in our first 2 days then we can go shopping and have a look at what you want" In my opinion, if you spend 500 bucks on meals, activities and a couple gifts spending 5 or 6 days and nights together with a young hottie then even if you figure out it may not work out long term then you still had a week you will remember for a lifetime! One thing to remember also (and it can be difficult when you are face to face with some beautiful 19 year old girl you could never even dream of being with in America)is that these are still young and immature girls and you are an experienced man with lots of life skills. Be confident, be in control and never show weakness. She will be attracted by that and see that you are capable of taking care of her. This also applies to all Ukrainian/Russian women. You must always be self confident but not egotistic, you must show strength but uncommon kindness and attention to her and listen to her and pay attention when she talks. And of course, be romantic, generous(to a limit, of course)and be honest. Do something not ordinary and that requires thought. If it doesnt feel right? bail out and cut your losses as there are plenty o fish in that sea! Of course, after she comes to you in your home? everything is different;) PS. for the record, my shortest "date" with a girl was 15 minutes (from an agency) Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/12/2010 8:04:34 AM   as had been said before, there is no formula or 'one way' to do it. but research, research, research. I am far from an expert and do not have a lot of experience dating women over there. but I did spend a lot of time studying the city and culture of the people I was going to meet. I even went into the history, agriculture, politics, economy etc.etc. etc. And I sought advice before I showed up - not after experiencing some weird meeting. What you are hoping to find is a needle in a haystack. It takes time, $$$$$$$$$$$$$ and effort. Part of the effort is also having patience and the willingness to fail and learn from it, as with any part of life. pro dater is a familiar term and maybe to the correct one here. others may offer advice on bringing gifts - or not, danny - even a token gift. A single rose always works! It helps tremendously to have a rapport with the woman first. This I think was missing...??? It seems this was a chance meeting that didn't go well and she at least wanted to get a free dinner out of it. I also think simpleton you have a lot to learn about women in general. durak, I blindly used an interpreter. and it worked out great. but body language, attitude and presentation will always make up for lack of one to one conversation when newly meeting. communication skills require much more than speaking. Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Quick Advice
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