I'm sorry about creating a brand new thread about this, but I'm having a tough time parsing out the archive and finding an appropriate thread to bring back to life. I want to share a recent experience and then gather input from the community.
My first experience was with a "pay per" site. I think everyone here knows about this site because there have been a wide range of accusations of fraud levied against them and thus they have changed the name of the site several times as a result (possibly the reason why). The reason why I started using it was because it was the first one I came across. I immediately realized the profit motive behind "pay per" and was very cautious about opening letters and the likes. Now I know most of the women that I receive letters from aren't actually from them but automatically generated by the site. Proof of this is that months later I came across a monthly site and I saw a profile of a woman there. I saw the exact same profile on the "pay per" site. I tried to engage the woman on the monthly site and she declined my request. But on the "pay per" I immediately received a letter from her after I added her to my favorites.
Anyway, I had been corresponding with one woman on the pay per just trying it out. We had exchanged letters and photographs for a couple of months and then we finally moved on to live chat. Live chat is charged at $1 per minute, or $2 per minute with video. Very pricey if you ask me but I wanted to see where this was going. Up until this point I have not spent very much money into the pay per. Well our first conversation went well and I could see in the video that she indeed was the woman I was exchanging letters with. She seemed friendly and bubbly and I thought okay maybe we can do this again.
The chat sessions that followed were not good at all. She seemed to be disengaged from our discussion almost completely and only would respond to me in one or two word sentences. I know this woman is more than capable of holding a decent conversation but later chats just fell flat. I also know that she was actively engaged into live chat with other men at the same time. I accept that is the nature of the site and chalked up to an error on my part. Basically, it reached a point where I was getting frustrated and I told her I would only communicate with her through letters. Now she insists on doing the live chat thing where I do have to say for the record going to live chat was completely my idea. She didn't lead me into making that decision, but now she only wants to do live chat which is extremely more expensive than just sending letters.
Ultimately, I sent her a polite but disgruntled letter and told her I'm basically not interested anymore and told her the reasons why. I have not heard a response from her nor do I expect one. Now the interesting thing about this woman is that we never reached a point where we were claiming undying love and affection for one another. The letters have always been civil and along the lines of 'I enjoy our letters and like learning new things about one another' and that's about it. And I liked that because it's in stark contrast to most letters I receive now where the woman will say she's madly in love with me only after 2 letters. She seemed to be refined, in control of her life, thoughtful, and very happy with how she is living in her home country. So in my eyes it made her seem more safe.
Now I'm wondering if that's actually part of a scam, or if she is actually a genuine person that is really in control of her life and feelings and thinks she has options. But the thing that I don't get is that if she didn't feel we were clicking or making a connection during live chats then why not just tell me so we can move on amicably and gracefully? Either she's very afraid to tell me she's not interested for fear of hurting my feelings, or she has an incentive to make me continue to spend money to chat with her. Ultimately, I do not intend to correspond with her further and I feel that it's a shame because I was almost convinced that we had at least some kind of normal friendship brewing. Also I don't plan to use the site anymore because I know there are at least portions of it that is a scam.
But I would like the community to comment on my questions. More particularly I want to know if that's what Ukrainian women are really like or if you think she was perpetrating a scam? I would like to better understand what a normal Ukrainian woman is like so that I can identify them easier in the future. Thanks.
One way or another on any type od site you pay, agencies date site and whatever the hell they are have to make money, nobody works for nothing. My experience says, if you want an FSU woman be prepared to pay and have deep pockets. The hard work never stops, its as big a job getting there keeping them is even harder, be prepared is all i can say.
Most people with jobs in Ukraine have low incomes by Western standards. Because the nature of the Ukrainian economy makes measurement very difficult, noone can give accurate national figures.
However, an average wage-earner's income might be in the range of $80 to $180 per week.
If a pay-per site is charging between one and two dollars per minute, and pays the women a 20% commission, then a woman working in this capacity can bring in perhaps $15 per hour.
If she can keep men busy in conversation for 10 hours per week, she has probably matched a week's earnings at a regular job; if she already has a normal job, she has doubled her income.
Now you have hit on the reason that you do not join pay-per-letter sites and use video or sending flowers to verify the existance of a woman. I wrote many letters to many ladies knowing that if there was a payout, it was watered down considerably.Until I entered a site, I had only written a few letters in my life. Now I can write, spell and type much better than when I started. Make sure that the letters have realistic interaction, but understand that sometimes translation software cannot deal with complex sentences or cultural sayings and parables. Just the other day I tried a new on and it translated one word at a time and when my lady received the letter it was as I expected, complete nonsense. It was however excellent in spell check.
Hi Neo, need to ask you, which site are you referring to? I'm current using a PPL site and exchanging letters with 2 women. One in particular is REALLY getting to me and I'm hoping (praying!) that she is genuine. Like you, we haven't professed undying love or anything remotely approaching that. We have admitted to a "connection" and a desire to learn more. She has said she would like to meet eventually though.
I await your reply with anticipation!
Regards.......... Dave
The pay per site I was refering to is Anastasiadate.com
Here's what I'm finding so far. I joined a membership based site (fiance.com) and thus far I've encountered more covert scammers on that site than the other one. Obvious signs have been receiving letters from supposed women that were either identical or the structure of the letters were too similar to be coincedence. On the membership site I've had 3 "women" already ask me to send money or to buy them flowers. A couple of the women that wrote me had profiles where the photos were obviously from a magazine. I've given out a backup email address to a few only to get spammed and signed up for things I never signed up for.
The first site I mentioned which is the pay per one is still the same. The way I figure it is that there's no reason for them to be covert about scamming. They can just do is strictly out in the open because they charge outrageous fees to use it. I'm begining to believe that women are incentivized to lure men into spending more and more money because perhaps they receive a commission. Thus far I'm losing heart in the whole process because I do not believe I am communicating with anyone that's genuine. Maybe there is one or two that are for real but it's impossible to pick them out from the gang of scammers. I've basically sunk in about $1000 already unsatisfactorily and I think I've hit my limit and will give up.
It's definitely hard to walk away from it because I don't want to leave any real ladies hanging. But it's like I said there's no way to differentiate the scammers from the real ones really. I've had so many letters from women telling me how much they love me or how I'm "the one" at about the second letter. Although I will admit that on the membership one I am corresponding with a couple that don't appear to have alterior motives and are not steering me into spending more money.
I'm at a loss here and my experience is telling me that there is no genuine site. They all have profit motives and don't care at all about customer experience and satisfaction.
"They all have profit motives" -- some men here have reported positive experiences with small local agencies that seemed to want to take care of them. But yes, these are a bunch of cynical businesses that focus on revenue, not customer happiness.
That being said, there are real differences among websites. I saw one where 90 to 95 percent of the profiles were obviously scammers (not counting those that may have been a bit subtle about it). And there is one, recommended by several of the men here (including myself) where the majority seem to be sincerely looking to make a marriage. But they ALL have scammers, so a man has to keep his eyes open and his wits about him.
As nutty as this forum usually is, anyone who spends 5 or 10 hours reading through old posts can learn really useful facts, for example:
A. anastasiadate (including its many branches with various names) is poison
B. pay-per-letter sites have an big money incentive for women to make insincere correspondence for a cut of the money, or even to conduct completely faked correspondence
Just to keep things straight, the most recommended site is pay-per-CONTACT (after the first letter, the rest are included with your subscription), and has no reports of fake correspondence. For anyone who wishes to try dating websites, you can save hundreds by learning some information first ... or if you are going to spend $1000, you will at least have the opportunity to get into communication with a couple of dozen of genuine women.
There are sites where you only pay a one-time fee, for access to private emails, phone numbers or addresses, and you can immediately "remove the woman from the agency" and talk privately.
baron, because it is too easy to do. then they would have no excuses and get to continue bitching and complaining about paying for letters. I signed up for the 'deluxe' membership or something like that. and I was corresponding with real women from the start. sure a couple suspects but mostly all seemed genuine and only one asked me to send money to meet after I planned to visit. It was a lady from Belarus whom I actually talked to at her work number and home number. But asking for $$ to meet - I was just too green at the time and quit all correspondence after I told her I would not send her money to meet me.
If you pay for a womans personal contacts phone number etc how can you be sure it is her and not an interpreter. In a normal relationship information is free and if you pay for it in any type of situation then surely the relationship is false from the begining. Can not think of ant English girl i knew who i had to buy her information in order just to believe she has honerable intentions. No agency has honerable intentions if their prime objective is profit then the women in them are no more than a means to an ends.
Why do certain agencies pay Google etc. to come top of any search results, are they paying because they want one to be happy in a relationship or are they paying to make as much money as is possible?
Exactly you pay for a girls info at an agency and her e-mail is a yahoo or G-Mail address which are free to set up and not traceble. Also phone numbers can be interpreter and not the girl the only real thing could be girls name and home address so yes of course you are getting a great deal if you buy information. My example is, i paid for a girls info on a site and it came back with her agencies phone number and their address, her mobile number i already had and i also had her home address so i knew her agency was acting as her and selling false information. My point is buy information and get sucked into a circle of deceit. How do you know it is genuine and accurate ?
how can you be sure it is her and not an interpreter.
Well figgie, this is only the first step in the process. You understand what that is, right?
You correspond with the woman, using many various means, and all the while from the content of the corrspondence, the answers to questions and the conversation you have, the photos you both send, the sound of the voices on the phone, the person behind the video cam on a private Skype call, you determine if the person is real and serious.
If one does not know how to go about this, then those folks have no business in pursuing a long-lasting relationship.....except by using a pay-per site and spending their money. Those two are made for each other.
The site that I ... and several other 'veterans' on this forum ... have the highest estimation of, is elenasmodels.com.
The up-front costs are relatively high, so most men probably never try it. But if you look at the dollars spent per sincere woman you make actual contact with, it's probably a pretty good bargain.
You can subscribe (if I remember correctly) to make something like 50 contacts for a fixed price (during 3 months, I think). After a first contact, you can exchange additional emails at no cost (while the subscription lasts). I spent the additional dollars for the expensive unlimited contacts subscription. Anyway, read their webpage if you are curious, I am spouting from memory and may have the facts mixed up.
They certainly have a percentage of out-and-out scammers and gals who will be delighted to meet you in order to spend a lot of your money ... and there are plenty of Very Young Women who are obviously either just posting for a lark, or if they are sincere haven't thought through what they're about ... but most of the women who are older than 30 (my demographic) seem to be sincere.
what do people think about bride.ru. its a membership site where you get direct contact with the ladies. The ladies can also contact you if you register on the site. seems pretty genuine. no touched up photos and the girls are a mix of attractive and average. also, most of the ladies are looking for someone near their age. all of these reasons leads me to believe its legit.
as far as anastasia is concerned, from what i understand, after 5 exchanges of letters, you are able to request contact info. from then on, contact her directly. if she is into you, she will of course want you to contact her directly. its as simple as that.
by the way, anastasia doesn't just photoshop the faces. the bodies are distorted as well. have you noticed most of the women have c cups. hmmmm
Neoeclectic, I met my fiance two years ago on tau2.com I think Beemer originally recommended it so I went there. It's a pay for contact info site. Like all sites there are good and bad girls that frequent it. Just keep your witts about you and you will be able to figure out which girls are sincere and which are scamming. Oh! one other site that I have faith in is Ukrainedate.com.