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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Try Kazakstan Author Post GeminiDreams Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/30/2010 12:36:42 PM   Im sitting in Almaty, just finished a dinner with some friends. One was single proffessional lady looking for a husband. Apparently there is a high ratio of single women here to men. Certainly looking around I saw a lot more women on the streets than men. Almarty is quite a modern well laid out city with good transport options. xvvx Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/30/2010 1:03:40 PM   Sounds interesting.Are these Kazak women muslim? ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/30/2010 3:14:56 PM   According to CIA World Factbook, 47% Muslim. dcv Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/30/2010 4:12:22 PM   vvvx Kazakstan is 70% muslim ,the remaining christians in Kazakstan will meet the same fate as the coptic christians in Egypt. Who wants a muslim woman for a bride? I know I don't Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/30/2010 7:31:00 PM   There are an estimated 500,000 Muslims in Ukraine Quote: (Who wants a muslim woman for a bride? I know I don't)! The population of Kazakhstan is circa 16,375,713 of which circa 35% are non muslim, if one can't find a lady amongst 5,731,500 then one really is a lost cause. :) GeminiDreams Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/2/2010 12:42:26 PM   I havent seen any girls dressed as muslims, all dress like FSU. I believe that they are not extreme, dont go for fasting etc. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/2/2010 1:27:05 PM   What is this about Muslim anyway? Isn't the trouble we've had from radical Muslim? In this recent attempted plane bombing, wasn't it a Muslim who tipped the authorities? Radical Christians such as David Koresh and Rev. Jim Jones are also trouble aren't they? A whole country with many Muslims who don't dress as Muslims.... interesting. Muzzy Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/3/2010 2:35:28 PM   RB, Neither David Koresh nor Jim Jones were Christian. They both co-opted elements of Christianity into their own belief systems, but their groups were both, by definition, cults. They were also both heretics, and their behaviour was 100% contradictory to the Christian faith. I'd appreciate you not making untrue statements like that. Regarding Muslims, you're right that the majority of Muslims are not 'extremist', however many will follow Islamic practices, and may well live according to Sharia law. If you're going to date a Muslim, just be ready for that eventuality. Of course, I don't think as many are strict with their beliefs in the FSU as in, say, Western Europe or the US. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/3/2010 7:33:23 PM   Muzzy, It's individual(s) looking for lamebrain excuses why they should not fork out for a visa application to travel to a country other than Ukraine. Don't let the cheapskate amateur(s) get to you! ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/4/2010 12:09:10 AM   It was me that got to him, Ivor. DCV does not want to marry a Muslim. Muzzy somewhat supported him by saying Muslims may eventually live according to Sharia Law. Did I not question why other(s) were against Muslims? Visas did not even enter my mind; only religion. I just did a quick fare search on Yahoo Travel. I used them for two of my trips to Ukraine. Yes, I compared prices back then. I used the same dates and looked at both of Kazakstan International Airports. The cheapest roundtrip fare to Kiev is $858 from 11/24 to 12/1. Kazakstan, $1,420. Besides the trouble and cost of the visa, Kazakstan fares would cost another $562 in air fares. I have no plans to go to Kazakstan. But, if I am a cheapskate, lamebrain, amateur excuse to not go there in favor of Ukraine, because of the trouble and cost of a visa and an extra $562 in air fares, so be it. Let the experts go there. It looks like Muzzy is ready to rumble. Usually, when there’s a rumble, he sits back and laugh about it. I had to look up cults and the Sharia Law. While I was at it, I looked up David Koresh and Rev Jim Jones. It has been years. I know that they called themselves Christian. I called them extremists because I don’t understand them as Christians. That was a mistake. They are, as Muzzy says, cults. As other Christians, they believe in the second coming, except they preached that they were the second coming. They call themselves Christian, and Muzzy call them cults. If they call themselves Christians are they not Christians? The Wikipedia entry is about Christian cults. We can say that Christian cults are not Christian. I certainly would not follow their religion, just like I will not follow Mormons who have more than one wife, Jehovah's witnesses and Filipino Catholics who believe they can cleanse their sins by nailing themselves to the cross. Muzzy Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/4/2010 4:53:25 AM   RB, Let's just review what I actually said: "Regarding Muslims, you're right that the majority of Muslims are not 'extremist', however many will follow Islamic practices, and may well live according to Sharia law" You seem to have (mistakenly) assumed that the word "will" refers to a transition in behaviour of specific Muslims (i.e., from what they do now, to what they "will" do later). It appears that this miscommunication is the reason for your failing to understand the meaning of this sentence. For your clarification, I will re-phrase: Regarding Muslims, you're right that the majority of Muslims are not 'extremist', however many that you meet (in your search for women in a majority Muslim country, as the last 8 posts on this thread have been discussing) will, at the point you meet them (again, as the thread has been discussing), be following Islamic practices, and may well at that point be living according to Sharia law. Secondly, you refer me being "up for a rumble", and that I "usually sit back and laugh about it". If I did usually "sit back and laugh about it", then I'd be like most other posters here - including your friend Danny, who jokes about serious topics far more than I do. Yet, you never make mention of this, why is that? Also on this point, for your edification I suggest that you look back through the forum for where I've had "rumbles" with the aforementioned Danny, and even with his arch-nemesis Nasfan. In that I will sometimes joke and sometimes discuss, I'm no different from anyone else here, except you of course, because you take yourself to be the grand arbiter of taste and decency on this Forum. Thirdly, "Muzzy" doesn't call those in question cults, every Christian outside of their cults, calls them cults. This would include the Orthodox Church, the Catholic Church, the Anglican Church, the Methodist Church, the Baptist Church... I really could go on here, but why bother? You have Wikipedia and I only have 20 years of experience in ministry, so obviously you win. Perhaps you can check Wikipedia again to find the actual definition of what a cult is, as your last paragraph seems to indicate that you don't understand yet. You may also want to look up the definition of religion while you're at it. For the record, I should probably tell you that I work alongside Muslims quite often, and am in no way connected to DCV's point of view. Further, if you take the time to research the forum a little before suggesting that I am, you'll find that I've had my "rumbles" with him, too - specifically for defending Muslims from him and his racist little friend SOOTY. Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/4/2010 5:54:29 AM   As a youngster I was fascinated by a "passage" on the 'Aqualung' album cover. You all remember albums don't you? There was this profound explanation/opinion of 'God' that is somewhat provocative. I suggest to RB that he read it. And also listen to the album. It is one of my all time favorites. http://www.cupofwonder.com/aqualung.html If you go to this link and go to the bottom you will be able to read what was on the album cover. Please read it then ponder... As Muzzy offers, there are very many religions. And many that call themselves Christians. I don't wish to get into a religious debate. As sad as it is, religion is still the underlying root cause of many of the conflicts between people to this day. And now back to Kazakhstan. My wife's mother is from there. She has cousins and family from there. Her father was a German. I guess that makes her Gemanzahkstanian! She is neither a Christian nor a Muslim. Though she is well educated on the Christian faith. But she has lately become a fan of Glenn Beck :) So there is hope for her. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/4/2010 4:33:40 PM   There are serious topics, Danny. What serious is to you might not be talked about here, but they have been talked about. Ralph, I tried to read that album. My brother had that album. It is not my tune. The lyrics looks profound, but it is not helping. Muzzy, why do you mention your twenty years of ministry vs. my looking up Wikipedia? You mentioned cults and Sharia Law and said nothing else. What choice did I have but to look it up? Did we have a misunderstanding about Muslims? I did an edit and find with the word "will" where I supposedly made a misunderstanding of what you said. You agreed with my first post and in my second post, I tried to use the same words as you did. This is not something I know enough about to debate with you with. I never said you called those in question about the cults. I did, since they are not in the mainstream Christianity as cult is defined in Wikipedia. Specifically, Wikipedia called Jehovah's witnesses cults. I made up the other two. "Themselves" refers to Koresh and Jones. You said they were not Christians and by definition, they are cults. If you look at my post, I tried to agree with you. I said we can say Christian cults are not Christian. I was questioning here whether or not we can call them Christians, since they call themselves Christians (and, as you say, they co-opted elements of Christianity in their belief system). Here is a question: At what point do religions who call themseves Christian, not Christian? I do not see myself grand arbiter of taste and decency on this forum. I know I am not seen that way. There are three things that I can think of that gets to my nerves about others here. Sometimes, I keep quiet, but other times I will let them know I don't appreciate it, especially if they target me. I tried keeping quiet, but they escalate, don't stop and become the mainstream thought while others are drowned out with their unsolicited point of view. I did find that I can be as obnoxious as them, but I have not strayed from my principles, at least I don't think so. Here are the three: 1. Not letting others have their say. We are all looking for a mate. Who we choose will stay with us the rest of our lives. What suits us and how we attract that should be up to us. 2. Name calling. You can tell when one's argument doesn't hold water. They start to name call. They think that will give their point of view more attention, and they are right. 3. Lies. Again, one's argument doesn't hold water. They make things up. Muzzy, there was a time when nearly all threads was about rumbles. One particular forum member had many enemies, and was involved in many of this. One of these enemies went to another forum, impersonated this forum member and acted like he was bipolar. He was in love with everyone at times, and threatened to kill others in other times. I exposed this person and he was never heard from again. I thought this forum member with many enemies would be grateful to me, so I tried to explain to him why he had so many enemies. That's when the biggest rumble in this forum that I recall started and it involved me. You then started a thread to laugh about all of this. When I PM'd you for guidance, you said nothing can be done about it. I guess in that sense, you are like everyone else. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/4/2010 9:23:03 PM   @ralph: A cousin was managing a very important research and development project at a giant aerospace. I remember him asking me, "what would they think if they knew that I listen to 'Locomotive Breath' every morning on my way to the office?" Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/6/2010 8:25:41 AM   durak, kind of ironic. 'Locomotive Breath' is somewhat apropos to this situation that many put themselves in trying to find a bride in FSU. Muzzy Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/7/2010 6:13:12 AM   RB, Okay, lets fix this. I'm not having a go at you, and I have no intention of 'rumbling' with you. I'm going to quote your points raised - please don't take this as sarcasm or any attempt to be insulting. It isn't. I just want to make sure our communication is clear, so I'll answer you point-by-point. "Muzzy, why do you mention your twenty years of ministry vs. my looking up Wikipedia? You mentioned cults and Sharia Law and said nothing else. What choice did I have but to look it up?" Chronologically, this is the conversation above: I mentioned sharia law, in relationship to the propensity of the strict-or-otherwise behaviour of Muslims in various countries in the Islamic world. As part of your response, you stated that two cult leaders are Christians (specifically, you stated that they were 'Radical Christians'). You didn't say 'possibly', 'maybe' or 'someone would consider them to be'. You stated it as if fact. This got my back up, and I won't apologise for that. There are radical Christians in the world. They are (among other things) the missionaries who risk their lives to smuggle Bibles to countries where they're illegal, like North Korea. They're the ones born and living in countries like Kuwait and Indonesia, where they're being killed for refusing to give up their faith. They're people who gave up everything for a life of service of others, like Mother Teresa and thousands of others doing the same thing she did, without their names being known. In one fail swoop, you've grouped selfless people like these with mass-murderers and child rapists like David Koresh, and why? Everything they did was 180 degrees in opposition to the Christian faith and it's teachings. Again, Chronologically, I only mentioned cults when you'd brought these people up. I call them this because I know what a cult is, and I know who these people are. Before making an accusation, or 'labelling' someone, I think it's appropriate to know what you're talking about. This is why I got particularly irate when you used Wikipedia as your source of information for making (and continuing to defend) your statement. Regarding what choice you had than to look it up, I absolutely agree with you. However, if this is a subject you're interested in, I can recommend some actually reliable and well researched reading for you. Wikipedia is no defence for taking up an opinion, as it's famously poorly researched and has no real authority on any given subject. I have a lot of friends who work hard and suffer for their faith, and to casually tie them to monsters like cult leaders is something I will always consider to be an insult. I hope you can understand my irritation on this point. "Here is a question: At what point do religions who call themseves Christian, not Christian?" Just FYI, the word "Christian" was first used in Antioch, 200 years AFTER the church was created. It was actually used as an insult, and is best translated as "little Christ" or "Little Jesus", and is akin to calling someone "Mini-me" (for those who've watched Austin Powers). It was only adopted as an official badge of the faith 200 years after that (so 400 years after the crucifixion). The term denotes those who follow Christ and His teachings. Not those who attend church, not those who have been Christened or baptised, and certainly not those who 'call' themselves Christian. Follow His teachings = Christian. Not follow His teachings = not Christian. Simple! Those who divert the teachings and are seen to corrupt them are known as Heretics. In Christian terms, a Cult is when someone likens himself to, or places himself above, Christ. If you look at those who are defined as Cults, they are either based around one man (and it's usually a man) who says he's the messiah, another messiah like Jesus, or is in some way the only person who can hear some 'new' teachings from God (which always subvert and contradict the teachings of Christ). Cults exist to worship their leader. Cults are often perversions of traditional belief systems like Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc., or 'alien' theories (scientology being the biggest, but certainly not the only one) I won't get into the rest, as there doesn't seem to be any point. I do kind of agree regarding your principles, but I think I've talked enough for now. I don't like arguing for the sake of it, and I freely apologise for any part I've played in ruining this thread with an off-topic disagreement, however I will limit myself at asking you to, please, not make insinuations about things which I think you'll admit you don't fully understand. beemer18 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/7/2010 11:16:30 AM   Muzzy, I know you are trying to be reasonable BUT you are trying to speak to someone who makes statements as fact only by 'looking something up' as oppposed to doing 'research', which takes wayyyy too much time, in fact one time 'we' spoke/argued of a roman battle in Alexandria and 'his' statements were based on an HBO series he saw....as opposed to a thesis I had done in college!!!!! durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/7/2010 2:29:04 PM   Because fools rush in, where angels fear to tread... here we have a well-meant disagreement about who (or what) is Christian, or not. [Disclosure: I was raised in a protestant denomination, and my beliefs changed such that I don't consider myself Christian today.] As I understand Muzzy's position, no cult (in the sense Muzzy specified) can be Christian; and further one can draw a sharp line that separates Christians from everybody else. As I understand rb's position, Christians include those who are usually called or labeled Christians. In my opinion, these are both reasonable positions, and neither is defensible as an Absolute Truth. I can give examples from my country, USA. There is a group claiming nearly 20 million baptized adherents called 7th Day Adventists (their history happens to touch on my own biography). They certainly consider themselves Christians, and probably most Americans would accept them as Christians. But their Christian identity has been hotly disputed for most of their history (more than 150 years), and acceptance has come gradually. It happens that an exceptionally corrupt and evil American, Vernon Howell, started a very nasty cult in what was originally an offshoot of an offshoot of 7th Day Adventism, and styled himself "David Koresh." While his child-molestation factory didn't conform to any accepted definition of Christianity, the group would have been considered Christian by most people up to the time when the cult became public, and probably some of its surviving members still believe that it was a Christian group. So calling it a Christian cult, while doctrinally incorrect, at least makes some sense. It wasn't an Islamic, or Hindu, or Wiccan cult. It was a Christian community that became deeply perverted. The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints (Mormons to most of us) also has millions of members, but perhaps less than the Adventists. They certainly will tell you that they are Christians! Many Americans, including (I believe) most Evangelicals, believe that Mormons are NOT Christians. I have no dog in this fight, but suffice it to say that this question is often passionately debated. Some Americans, including (I believe) some who have studied and written deeply about cults consider Mormonism (as a whole) to be a cult. However, this is hotly debated, and obviously Mormonism is quite different from those cults that are famous as such. Something that is not so much debated -- those in my country who call themselves "evangelical" (not very clearly defined, and impractical to count accurately) generally maintain beliefs and attitudes that are deeply opposed to my personal understanding of Christianity. To Durak, they are no Christians at all. We also have "Christians" in America who kill or maim medical people who work in abortion clinics, and who parade at the funerals of fallen soldiers with signs saying "God Hates Fags". So which of these folks are "following His teachings?" All of them claim to be! Could I answer this in every case? Could any man? Perhaps, only God knows. Something that is centered outside of my country: there is an offshoot of Islam, Sufism, with very many adherents, that to many traditional Muslims is not Islam at all. To Muslim purists certain Shia practices are also completely non-Muslim. The list could go on and on ... I understand Muzzy's rejection of calling David Koresh (for example) Christian. It is easy to understand that to a believer, this is offensive and outrageous. IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, millions of Muslims are offended and outraged that the egocentric son of a wealthy family (Usama bin Laden) appointed himself an Islamic authority, and organized a depraved murder cult in the name of their religion. To them, his statements and actions are an absolute perversion of the Islam that is a dear, comforting, and stabilizing part of their lives. (Yes, the murderers find passages in the Koran that they use to justify their actions, as Koresh found passages in the Bible that showed that he was Jesus and that his actions were righteous. It is possible to find Bible language that can be interpreted to support almost any proposition!) As a non-Christian (if anything, a Taoist) I believe that everything is literally inseparable from its opposite. If there were no darkness in the universe, the concept of light would have no meaning. However divinely inspired they may be, religions are human institutions, each with their shadows stretching behind them. To finally touch on the topic ... I hadn't thought about it before reading this, but although the Russian-speaking world has a large Islamic population, I almost never see pictures of women wearing head scarves. So the traditionalist/conservative observances are perhaps not predominant among Muslims in these regions, probably a legacy of Soviet rule. It's an interesting question, how Islam is practiced in Russia and the former Republics, that I would like to learn more about. The one Ukrainian Muslim girl I know very slightly (a recent convert) covers head-to-toe in the strict conservative manner. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/7/2010 7:21:31 PM   The subject of religion starts more arguments, indeed wars, more than any other subject, looking back on this thread it was 'xvvx' that brought religion in to this thread, can we all forget religion and move on please? I do love Durak's statement, of others, that 'God hates Fags' ..... God is obviously in line with the modern trend, in English a fag is a cigarette, so God was/is anti smoking like so many others are anti smoking, so what's the shock/surprise? Rick4girl Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/7/2010 7:43:38 PM   wow, durak. i enjoyed reading that very long post;) good points for sure. I consider myself Christian in the biblical sense but not dedicated to any particular denomination as I have a problem with most of them broadly label themselves as such. Ive also had issues that ended relationships with Ukrainian gals over my dedication to my "religion". I work as a missionary in Nicaragua and also in Ukraine and some Ukrainian ladies dont understand the whole concept of helping others without being paid to do so and also why I want to hang out with people from my church(which is an ultra modern offshoot with a band playing on Sundays, so not your regular church,lol) Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Try Kazakstan
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