I know someone who is terrified of dogs. And I mean physically she trembles and almost goes hysterical when in the presence of a dog. Whether or not a psychiatrist can cure her I can only speculate. But the root of the problem lies with an early experience she had with dogs.
Ivor, not all dogs are bad. Yes it smells fishy. After all haven't we been bombarded with horror stories about these women? Why do corporations, retailers manufacturers etc. have a complaint department but not a compliment department? Because people who are satisfied usually go on about their lives. Rarely do people go out of their way to let someone know they are satisfied and happy with a product. But those same people will not hesitate to register a complaint.
One thing I know to be a fact. If it looks like fish and smells like fish, be careful to not overcook it. Too many people destroy a good piece of fish by overcooking.
Just go to a site such as Amazon.com , select a product and read the customer reviews of that product, both satisfied and disatisfied customers, likewise search for a hotel/location on tripadvisor.com , both satisfied and disatisfied hotel reviews!
But I hear what you are saying but we are talking of a country where so many women are ridden with this 'cancer' of ripping off western men. Someone made a comment earlier in this thread questioning if this scenario might be the new scam, well if you think about it, if this is a law that came in last year it will be doing the 'jungle drums' amongst such women, yes they all talk to each other comparing notes and scams etc, and if this new law is not already being convenienced as the latest scam then it will only be a matter of time before it is.
As I've said I don't know where the truth lies in Mini's situation, he's merely provided a general overview of a situation of his relationship, he's lived and breathed the relationship for however long it's been, Mini should take the time to sit back and discect the relationship, past situations, things said or done, then make his judgement call as he sees fit.
I've PMed you Mini with news from my friend (whose credentials are verifiable) that the MIL is full of it. The US Embassy would not issue a visa to leave the Ukr unless all applicable laws that would prevent it were met....ie notarized letter from a father that a child can leave. Also they would not insert a visa into her Ukr passport if the passport was not valid.
If your fiance is given a visa from the Embassy, she is good to go.
All, I'm sending this long post is two consecutive messages... seems the forum will not take a long one.
Baron555 thank you for your interest and informative answer from your friends, it is appreciated and after reading more about the law I can to the same conclusion... if she gets the visa she can leave Ukraine.
Beemer18, the MIL founds out from her son, he infrequently sees his 16 yo daughter and he also was made aware of it because he had to sign a consent paper to allow her to leave Ukraine without him.
These rules and thankfully there is a English translation tab on the page so you can view the English version, said that in order to stop her from leaving Ukraine for a debt... that her passport may be temporarily detained or seized. Temporary detention or seizure of the passport in such cases by the courts, prosecutors, internal affairs, security services, the State Border Service of Ukraine, military commissariats and Consular Service of Ukraine. This makes no mention of the security/customs/immigration at the airport stopping her.
The link is: http://soderkoping.org.ua/page11397.html
Article 6. Reasons for Temporary Restrictions of Citizens in
their Right to Foreign Travel.
A Ukrainian citizen may be temporarily refused issuance of the
passport in case
1) he is familiar with information which constitutes a state
secret - until expiration of the term stipulated by Article 12 of this
2) he has unsettled alimony, contract, or other obligations -
until fulfillment of obligations or settlement of disputes by
agreement of the parties involved, in cases envisaged by the law, or
if obligations are left under security, unless otherwise stipulated by
applicable international agreements that Ukraine is a party to.
3) a criminal is filed against him - until completion of
4) he has been convicted for crime - until the term has been
served, or upon deliverance from penalty;
5) he evades fulfillment of obligations imposed by decision of a
court - until fulfillment of such obligations;
6) he deliberately presented false information about
himself - until the reasons for, and consequences of presenting false
information are clarified;
7) he is subject to being called up for military service - until
the matter of deferment is decided;
8) a civil action is brought against him - until completion of
9) he was declared by a court decision a dangerous recidivist, or
is under the administrative police surveillance - until expunging
previous convictions or termination of surveillance.
The citizen of Ukraine who has the passport may be denied the
right to travel abroad in cases enumerated in sections 1 - 9 of the
first part of this Article.
The citizen of Ukraine who has the passport, in case
circumstances arise which restrict his right to travel abroad, in
accordance with section 1 of the first part of this Article, is
obligated to leave his passport in the charge the body of the internal
affairs at his place of residence, within one month from the moment
that such circumstances arose. Upon presentation of sufficient
substantiation, the passport is returned to the citizen or his
authorized representative, within 10 days from the day that the
request was made.
The passport may be temporarily retained or withdrawn in cases
envisaged by sections 1 - 9 of the first part of this Article, or in
case if the passport is used for committing a crime, or if a
falsification in it is detected, as well as in cases of termination of
Ukrainian citizenship. Temporary retention or withdrawal of the
passport in these cases is executed by the court, offices of public
procedutor, bodies of internal affairs, state security service, State
Boundary Ukraine Service, military commissariats, and consular service
of Ukraine. ( Part 4 changed and amended according to Law of Ukraine
#662-IV ( 662-15 ) of April 03, 2003 )
I'd say the State Border Service of Ukraine are performing passport control at the airports and I'm of the opinion that a passport may be detained or siezed at any time and particularly by passport control at an airport!
But, officially speaking, this loan is 'hearsay', M-I-L says she owes the money, if the lady denies owing the money there is nothing in writing to support M-I-L's claim.
If I understood the law correctly, and some kind of a court order is necessary to prevent exit from Ukraine, then either such a court order is made, and the citizen will know about it; or there is no such ruling, and the citizen can exit through passport control without worries.
As a practical matter, my guess is that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (headquartered in that building with the gorgeous curved columnar facade at the top of the hill above Independence Square) would be very reluctant, to get saddled with the enforcement of civil disputes. If my thinking about this is correct, if a person shows up with their Ukrainian passport, they will probably be let through... but this is only my surmise.
Laws vary from country to country and some countries may confiscate a passport if an investigation is pending or current and/or if a court case, or similar, is pending.
But knowing Ukraine as I do if M-I-L were to slip a cop, let's say, $100 then that could cause Mini's lady some inconvenience(s).
But, there is no loan agreement in writing, not a single cent has been repaid in 10 years, I'd say that if M-I-L went to the authorities she'd be laughed at, she hasn't required the loan to be paid back in 10 years so did this loan ever exist, perhaps it was a gift, and why does she suddenly want it paid back now or is she being sheer bloody minded whilst trying to keep her grandchild in Ukraine?
Everything is now being discussed with her lawyer, there is a possibility to transfer ownership of the apartment to her daughter, this would prevent her MIL from trying to get a judgement against her to sell the apartment to pay the "fake" debt.
However, she would need to pay the utilities (heat,water,electric) because these would have to be paid before there is a transfer of ownership.
Looks like she is coming to the USA sometime during the first week of June after her daughter graduates high school!
In spite of the popular forum psyche that the FSU lady is out to scam someone, she turns out to be honest. Expectation of cynical behavior clouds your thinking. If the other party sees that it is expected of her, she will not disappoint you.
As a, to be, married couple she becomes entitled to half of yours and you become entitled to half of hers, by signing the apartment over to her daughter you become entitled to 50% of diddly squat whilst she remains entitled to 50% of your estate!
not if there is a prenuptial agreement that is properly attained. that will cost another $800. you need two lawyers yours and hers. you must pay for her lawyer, have the document certified/notarized etc etc in her native language. then satisfy the courts that she was not coerced into signing it, she has read and understood it completely and that her lawyer of choosing (preferably one who speaks her language)- whom you must pay for - endorses the document before it goes to the judge for the final stamp. not necessarily a judge but a recorder of writs etc. this has to be very clean from the start or you can get cleaned out in the end. pun intended
danny that is true - your assets are protected to an extent. what you had before is yours and you get when you are together is both of yours. however, the courts and lawyers will try to find a way to take the whole ball of wax if they can. there are cases where bazillionaires marry some poor mary ann from the sticks. after a couple years her time is up and the he needs a newer model. even if he did not make a dime during that period, she just won the lottery. because she became accustomed to this lifestyle she is entitled to live the dream for the rest of her life. unless joe bazillionaire has a carefully crafted prenup she ain't going back to the trailer park.