The national language of Ukraine is Ukrainian though not all Ukrainians know it. All Ukrainians do however understand and use Russian except for official business (by mandate)and those that desire an independent Ukraine on a personal level as well. I also understand that there are distinct languages the British Empire (present and past) English is the diplomatic language of the world and the language of aviation as well. I have traveled the world and every instruction is made in English as well as the native language of the airline. Just over a century ago, the diplomatic language of the world was French. I do not wish to argue as to what the reason is that English is the dominant language, but my inference is that the Seven Sea are guarded by the U.S. Navy and the U.S. is a former colony.
I see your dilemma, Ivor. One of my favorite TV shows is Monk. Last night, he was investigating a car crash. He determined that the body found could not have landed where it was because the car was from England and the driver seat was on the right side. Though suffering from OCD, Monk is an unusually smart guy, able to notice little things that matter in the investigation. He once determined that a body in autopsy was from Lithuania before any reports confirmed it by the inoculation only done in that country.
It's just a TV show, but the writers, directors and producers did not catch it. Again, education is the key. Calling them ignorant or liars will not help. It will only make them despise you and not ask the proper questions that will help them understand.
Preaching Aviation language and instructions ..... You're preaching to the wrong person, I started off as an Air Traffic Control Assistant in 1976 and in 1979 I commenced my airline career travelling worldwide including living and working in foreign lands!
Every ATC instruction is not made in English .... the French, in France, are infamous for conducting ATC/Aircraft/ATC control in the French language and much around the former USSR things are done in the Russian language.
2001-2002 I worked for Antonov Airlines, perhaps you'll have heard of their aircraft such as the AN-22, (the world's largest turboprop airline), the beast of the AN-124's, and the world's largest aircraft the AN-225. Besides umpteen Russian speaking crew members on each aircraft we would also put a (British national) Flight Manager on board for English language speaking purposes besides other duties.
Even Japan, never mind dozens of other countries, drive on the left side of the road, most of Asia, all of Australasia, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, several African countries, Ireland, Bermuda, Bahamas, the list seems endless of countries that drive on the left but to an American ..... if the steering wheel is on the right then the car must be English!
The Americans can be pretty damn ignorant ... can't they?
Would it be cheeky of me to suspect that far less Australians refer to themselves as Australasian than there are English who call themselves British? Or would I just be ignorant?
Ivor, I think you may have missed Huck's point. He seemed to be referring to his own travels, and said that instructions on airlines are given in English AND their own native language (which I would imagine includes French and Russians). Did I read that wrong?
Ignorant, probably. We use your British measurement of feet , inches and pounds, ounces. You English had the good sense to abandon that. Maybe you will also change to right hand drive. Or better yet, maybe you can define your identity by having right hand, left hand, middle and reverse drive for each of the countries of the U.K. or what ever you call yourselves this week. Like black people in America, the identity changes from Negro , Colored, Black and now African American. It is hilarious to me that an American black activist referred to a black man in the U.K. as an African American. This discussion is about as ridiculous.
Australasia includes Australia, New Zealand and many islands etc. Now does a New Zealander refer to him/herself as an Australasian? .... Well I wonder!
And how many British/English refer to themselves as Europeans, god damn the island mentality of these islands, upon my return from mainland Europe I couldn't even rent an apartment nor open a bank account .... because they couldn't run a credit check on a British (European Union) national that has been living in the European Union ... yet in Luxembourg this British national had a bank account, an apartment rented, had bought a washing machine on credit etc. etc. etc.
Muzzy, I think you're referring to P.A's by airline crew members but that not what Huck said ... besides I've never heard a P.A. in English on a Ukrainian (geriatric Russian/Ukrainian aircraft) domestic flight, Huck said that it is the language of aviation and every instruction would be made in English!
And ... I've just remembered, quite recently I had business in Turkey with a Turkish airline based in Antalya and a couple of times I needed to travel to Antalya on business. The airline offered me free travel but they only operated between Turkey and The Netherlands, I got myself to/from AMS or RTM and travelled back and forth with them to Turkey ... all P.A's were made in Turkish and Dutch (only) because on a route between two non-English speaking countries there is no legal requirement to broadcast P.A's in a third party language.
P.S. I was OK though, I've done flight attendant training in the past, I don't need to be told how to get out in a hurry ... I know the way :)
It certainly is ridiculous. It has been since the first mention of this ridiculous and utterly irrelevant dispute regarding supposed definitions of nationality. Given that it is a ridiculous conversation, perhaps therefore we are all equally so for perpetuating it?
You say "whatever your calling yourselves this week", when in fact this issue has been around here since before your nation existed, having been founded by our nation while this question was being asked.
I point out the Australasia misnomer-apparent to highlight the pluralism of nationality that exists all around the world, as I did with the "USA vs America" vagueness. Not everybody picked up on either of these, so perhaps I should accuse them of being ignorant or dishonest - the unfounded and incorrect accusations on which this entire set of arguments began.
You may have noticed that a succession of people have disagreed with your initial assertions. If you go back to the beginning of this ridiculous topic (a word I'm stealing from the gentleman above), I think you'll see that there is less disagreement with your claims of the non-existence of English nationality, than there is at your insistence that your point of view is irrefutable and singularly correct. Further, your claims to know the absolute motivation of all those who may disagree are also in dispute. It's this rigidity which, regardless of the reasons for your initial claim, are a little silly.
I don't often find myself disagreeing with RB, but when he says "calling them ignorant or liars will not help", he's pretty bang-on.
We could discuss whether a passport is the de facto definer of nationality, or whether other things have bearing. We could talk about just how important Luxombourgers opinions are on, well, anything. We could even talk about the status of Britain in the EU, the single currency, the schengen agreement, UKIP or a host of other thorny questions about our level of integration with 'the continent', but that wouldn't really be the point of this discussion, would it?
The point seems to remain this: Is this a discussion, or is it just you being right?
Although, that's a question for all of us, I suppose.
Even the 'US President' utters "God Bless America" ..... well if he is blessing America, America being a continent, why is he not called 'America President' or, if indeed, he is blessing the United States of America does he have a problem stringing these four words together?
The world is seriously phucked up :)
P.S. I did love it though on his recent state visit to UK, the roads closed, accommodated at Buckingham Palace etc. etc. etc. but don't believe for one minute that (our) Boris is going to let Cadillac One off without paying the 'London Congestion Charge' ... The US Embassy received the Congestion Charge bill for his car. :)
You've been to the Philippines, Rasputin? If I remember correctly, so has Ralph.
You maybe right. It has been a while since I have been to the Philippines. I was born in the Philippines. You probably went to where the tourists go. I spent some years where there was no electricity, you pumped your water, only the Main street in town was paved and more often than not, transportation was on foot, foot powered tricycles or animal powered.
(For those of you keeping track of my stories, I once posted my grandfather came to the US in 1925. He did, but he was estranged. My mother found him in the mid 60's and he petitioned many of us to come to he US.)
Once in a while, not often, Caucasians would visit our town. No TV, computers, ipods, even radios were hard to come by, these Caucasians were followed around town by kids, and was given the royal treatment by adults. Many of us thought these guys were Americans as they spoke English. I guess some of them were. My mother and I was just talking about one of them recently as she laughed because this guy was talking to chickens. She said he was Australian. OK. My mother knew, but a good many of us thought since he spoke English, he was from America.
Ivor, you just made my point. Who in this world would know which countries have drivers on the left side? Are you going to call everyone who don't know what you know ignorant? Is this the same case as it is with Ray where you think he is either ignorant or a liar? That would make everyone in the world ignorant except you.
The car in question was definitely English or UK. That was a given. Therefore, Mr. Monk determined that the passenger was on the left side. The make of the car came from didn't change because the writers didn't know which countries drive from the right side. You are quick to call Americans ignorant for not knowing which countries drive from the right side when that situation did not come up at all.
When we moved to the city, the neighbors had TV, but we didn't. There was a church ran by a church from the US down the street. The big deal was not where they were from. We knew that. The big deal was they spoke English and can we communicate properly.
The political argument for the day is,,,,, "The United States of America is,,,, or The United States of America are,,,,
I have never flown on an international or domestic flight in any country that did not have a P.A. giving in the "United States of American" language. I will also stand by my assertion that all flight cockpit crews flying international flights speak United States of American as a requirement. Ya'll
I suppose in the end Ivor, or Martin, or Smart Martin, (or any of the short lived forum names you had in between), there is a certain irony to a bunch of imaginatively self re-named (to the point of anonymity) men discussing the correctness of various ways to refer to ourselves.
Perhaps the question ultimately comes down to asking "what's in a name?" It's several centuries since the Bard gave the answer to this whole thing.
A name is a word that labels a thing, a person, a nation, a planet, whatever. If the name defines the subject of your reference to the point that others know what you're talking about, then it's served its purpose. Americans refer to themselves as Americans, and their country as both America or the USA. In Spanish, however, the term "North America" is used to describe the country. Three terms, each technically with a different meaning, but all three describing the same place effectively, as long as the listener understands the reference.
I'm English, I'm British, on any web form I only have the option "UK" to choose from, I'm European, I'm from the British Isles, depending where I am in the world, I'm seen as European or "western". To Londoners I'm a northerner, and to anyone in England, I'm a scouser.
But you can call me Jon
I'm personally loving that the US embassy is having to pay the congestion tax. What I want to know is, will Cadillac One have to pay to repair that chunk of road surface it carved up when it got stuck!
Now children, it is time to discuss the topic of the species of Man and how women (wo-Man) are offended by being in the species Man and referred to as such. They are also caught up in language. A woman I work with has argued that Spanish needs to be modernized to remove gender from nouns. She was educated in a prestigious university, but does not know that the English language is as screwed up structure wise, as driving on the left side of the road Maybe it is that you are not Metro-men, but have XXY chromosome syndrome. "You all owe me an apology and I am not ignorant or hysterical"!!!!! See how ridiculous this all seems