Apa1, I am near Toronto, so, I am close to everything. She wouldn't feel anything different than being from Kiev to here except the fact that it's a different country.
Again, we are not talking about farmville, stickville, just a smaller city closer to a much bigger one. I have everything here that Kiev has pretty much.
P.S, You act like they goto the disco every week, opera, give me a break man. Visit Kiev once every month, not once a blue moon.
Toronto is by no means some small farm town. I was there two weeks ago.
I'm talking about the yokels you are trying to convince that they have a good opportunity to show up in Kiev and Odessa and bring back a babe to the small town. That isn't going to happen.
You have been talking in generalities, and some of these guys reading it will run with what you are saying and get their heart broken and their bank account drained, not realizing the real reality of how it is on the ground in Ukraine.
"I can't totally bag agency's i'm sure there are some honest ones."
Of course, there are honest ones. But, I have never seen you say a kind word about agencies or anything else in this forum. Your whole purpose in this forum is to bag on anything and anyone to make yourself feel good.
Thanks Zarkey!
Gary here. It's October 13, and in 2 weeks I am making another journey to Ukraine. This will be a road trip, marshrutka riding, train / taxi hopping adventure...there are no "scheduled" women on this agenda; I've been able to ween myself off DM and now manage to visit HRB maybe an hour a month...I am well traveled as I work in travel industry so I have no problem getting around.
I live in Vancouver - we have large Ukraine population - I even have it in my lineage somewhere....so, this is what fueled my desire for a Ukraine woman in my life. And quoting APAL1, "wearing sandals, t-shirts, hoodies, wind-breakers, ; most US and Canadian women I meet, have adopted this fashion style as well...and yes, one cannot generalize, but I see it all the time...I work ship to ship on various cruise lines in entertainment - I see this North American "fashion" style all the time...I'd like some grace, class, humility and playfulness in the woman I spend my life with. I believe Ukraine women for the most part, possess these qualities naturally.
I am fortunate employment/income wise, to reside in Ukraine, should my beloved so choose to be close to her family and friends. For me its about where WE, ultimately want to be as a family. Life in vancouver will be a good as we make it - life in Ukraine will be as good as we make it...when I find her.....
$500 bucks a month for an apartment? I guess, if you want 2 bedrooms and a Jacuzzi tub. The average Ukrainian pays 120-400 bucks per month
My apartment is on left bank in "little vinice" area, about a mile from Intourist Hotel. I paid $25,000 for a large 1br apartment which i spent 5 grand to completely westernize it. Those who spend time regularly in Ukraine know there is two prices for everything from taxis to apartments. westerners often pay up to double
for apartments because they cant speak the language.
Personally, I feel quite at home either place. I know everyone at the grocery in my neighborhood, where to go to get anything I want and how to get around the city. when my kids are a few years older I wont mind to live either place with a good girl and strong relationship.
you wont understand a Ukrainian girl until you can live like Ukrainian.
I bought apartment in Kiev in 2007 from lady I had been renovating since 2003. I did several for her from center to Podol
I prefer left side, Rusanivska near naberezhna metro station or little Venice area. Im looking to buy apartment in Kherson now
as I work there. right now prices are good.
"they don't want to leave their family and BOYFRIENDS"......lonelyranger1701 - that make me laugh. I am in UA as we speak. nikolaev, kherson, melitopol, kirovograd, kiev....in emails and chat, girls SAY they want to leave, but not really...all points above are true as per my current trip.
and yes, to the naysayers and true romantics at heart, online girls ARE paid to chat, paid for your flowers / gifts, opening of emails after your freebies are done, they get a cut from the translator and so on. but, even scammers need love...and they get it - from their boyfriends.
I sat at the flower market in Nikolaev with Anya, one of the local girls I met in a cafe....while enjoying my coffee, she let me observe agency girls coming and going, taking photos with various flower arrangements, handing Anya 20 hriynia for the "photo op", and leaving NOT WITH FLOWERS, but with the poloroid of her holding flowers...the agency will send the photo to her "man". I sat next to her while she chatted with men and so on.
Is all this really new news? No of course not. As Barnum & bailey said...something about a sucker being born every minute!
This visit, I went into the "game" prepared. Anya became my pimp...I'd spot a girl and she would approach for me. we would go out as 3, i would go home with 1. in teh morning, girl would simply leave on her own while I "slept".....I was just "nice" to her and incredibly indifferent. I got that lesson from a local Ukraine guy. Western men are to eager to please these girls, and while that is what they SAY they want, they naturally respond to the behavior they are used to....indifferent men, who know they have far more women to choose than the women have men, and use it.
If a girl is just "not that into you", move on....scam the scammers.
Think about how you find true love "at home'....just go out and do stuff, meet people....it is no different here. Forget about what you read, you don't come to Ukraine to "shop": for a wife, stick her in your carry-on and head back to Ohio....be clear about your motive. if you what to fuck hot FSU girls, pay for a hot FSU girl who will fuck you silly...if its love you seek, that is a different approach...know the game you're in..and don't hate the player- hate the game.
I have one more week. Anya, then Tetiana in Kirovograd, then to Kiev to see Yanna, before I fly out mid November.F our years, and many thousand$$$$ and 3 trips later, I have a better read on how things operate...but it really comes down to the guy knowing his own intent, and managing his own expectations and going about things according to his personal agenda.
Be clear, if you are going to fuck - then go, find some hot Ukraine whores, pay them and fuck silly. If you are hoping to find your beloved, take another approach. But foreigners are not viewed as saviors - we are not seen as the one who can swoop in and rescue a poor starving village girl who has never seen a TV. We can be seen mainly as an ATM.
And, absolutely learn some Russian...without it you can't simply approach girls casually, as can be the better way to meet.Be different than the local men - many do look good and as such, local girls can fuck local guys anytime they want....you got to offer more than that....
Having said that, many local girls I met on my travels this time, are intrigued by this concept of "friends with benefits"....I have been pitching this concept all trip long - with some good success. lets face it guys, we are always going to pay..whether its your local girl in Montana, Toronto wherever, guys cannot escape shelling out dough for a girl you are seeing; or want to see.
Is it H2O or water.....just a different name for the same game.
"Forget about what you read, you don't come to Ukraine to "shop": for a wife, stick her in your carry-on and head back to Ohio....be clear about your motive. if you what to fuck hot FSU girls, pay for a hot FSU girl who will fuck you silly...if its love you seek, that is a different approach...know the game you're in..and don't hate the player- hate the game. "
Love your post Gary. I think you have nailed it!
Unfortunately, Most guys dont "get it", you do. Id say for most its an expensive learning curve. It takes 4 or 5 trips to really understand and then yet, some never do.
Like Jetma, Id like to find "the one" thats the end destination but the ride itself is incredible if you're willing to stick your head out the window and feel the wind!
For Zarkey , you said you didn't use agency girls. So how did you meet the girls. Did you use online forum or what? Please tell us what websites did you use.
For Gary, how did you meet the girls? source? online/agency. I understand the fucking part but please enlighten me on the girl that i want to bring to the US. How and where do I find the one who has serious intention to relocate? Any suggestions on this inner game. I like your idea of having a girl to pimp for you. Do you pay them for the day or per hour and how much?. Does that girl go and fix up the deal for you or do you do anything yourself besides fucking :) As a newbie I would like to know more about how the things operate their especially the psyche of the girls. Its sad but true what you mentioned about treating them the way they are treated by the locals. That is the same shit in every country. That psyche never changes.
Paulx,,,, Zarkey is a local who is trying to create his own agency/ English teaching/ dating school for us foreign losers!! That’s why the regular agencies are so bad,,,, and his date coaching is so great.
Beware of people who are selling their own services. If there is a dollar to be made,,, there is a lie to be told!!
Even if the people are Westerners,,,, they went to the Ukraine to make the easy money on green, un-expecting foreigners.
About the pimping and exploitation of these local girls,,,, it’s a big part of what makes our search so much harder! They are afraid we are coming over for sex,,,, the good girls don’t want to sell themselves, even if it improves their chances. There are also girls who have given up their search,,, because the men only want sex and leave after they get it. Some of these women do it anyway,,,, they need income too.
I don’t think bad about guys who are serious in their search, spending some quality time with a potential mate,,,, it’s the ones who lied in their letters,,,, just to con a girl into bed so he doesn’t have to pay her!! That’s low!!!
GaryCanada and Rick4Girl - I completely agree with both of you.
Ukraine is cool for all those reasons. And just being there, I've had some of the best experiences of my life.
Its hard to even believe the relatioship I am in now where the ONLY problem we have is that she is incredibly young. But we love each other's company. And we are just having a blast together.
Life just doesn't get much better.
Regarding treating women with indifference as GaryCanada mentioned: On one of my early trips I befriended a man who owns an agency. I met him because he also drives long distance taxi for foreigners. We went out to a disco and he brought two girls along from his agency (didn't cost me a nickle by the way). One of them was an 19, very exotic looking and the best dancer I had ever seen - and I told her all of these things.
The next day while we were driving to another city he asked me about this. Now I should tell you - this guy is very good looking. Even though he is married to a Ukrainian woman, he had women from the agency hanging all over him. This guy EXUDES everything Ukrainian women want and they fall all over him.
He asked me why I complimented her so much. And I said "Because she was one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen!!" He reminded me that there are LOTS of beautiful girls in Ukraine and he chastised me saying "Do you notice how cool and indifferent I act toward them? I NEVER tell them that they are beautiful. They know that they are beautiful. But you don't tell them that!"
Since then I have considered his advice very carefully. I have to admit, I don't follow it to the letter. I have TOLD the gorgeous 21 year old I am with that she is absolutely gorgeous - at the right time of course. But I try to be more cool and collected, a little more reserved. Doing so seems to get a good response.
Ever since a lady I lived with for 6 months said on the forum that I was too affectionate I have tried to behave more like local men, especially in the beginning
as the vampires sense the American blood and then spends her time trying to guess the pin number on the US ATM
The woman I met in 2003, brought to the US in 2005 for three months, and continued to see in one way or another until 2010 - always recieved flowers from me on her birthday and on Valentines Day - for the first few years anyway.
The quality of the flowers was unpredictable and she finally, very carefully, asked me how much I was paying to send her flowers. Most guys here know it costs around $70 or $80 to send 11-15 roses from the USA.
She very tactfully told me that the same flowers, better in fact, could be had for $15 to $20 locally (of course I knew that anyway) and she told me that she resented these expensive gift services making $50 off of me - in addition to the $20 it cost them to buy the flowers.
She told me that if I REALLY wanted to spend that kind of money - that she could use the money instead, and asked if I could just give her the money instead of the flowers.
I objected of course sayting that it wasn't suppose to be a handout - I just wanted her, as someone I cared about, to have flowers on thsoe special days. She told me that if I would send HER the money she would BUY flowers.
Since she didn't have much money and I knew her quite well - I did as she requested.
Jetma says: "Ukraine is cool for all those reasons. And just being there, I've had some of the best experiences of my life."
Agreed. I would not exchange my experiences here at all. You have so many advantages here that you dont have in USA so you should exploit
those strengths to your advantage. It will only suck or be a disappointment if YOU let it