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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Ouch: Made a Mistake Author Post durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/10/2012 10:52:08 AM   Short version: After two years spent pursuing a young lady with whom there was really no hope (not marriage minded at all), I recently started to search again. At the moment, I'm in the FSU, with a plan to meet two different women: L is a first meeting, and E is someone I met before (not from a website), with whom I have hopes of moving from acquaintance to something closer. Both women have situations that make it complicated to meet, so I have needed to work around their schedules. As it developed, I was supposed to meet L today at the theater (tickets I booked months ago), and E tomorrow. Planning to meet more than one woman in a short time frame always makes me nervous -- things can so easily get awkward, and I can't bear to lie, or treat a woman disrespectfully. I realized very late in the proceedings (one hour before I was supposed to meet L!), that the tickets are actually for tomorrow. This is where the "ouch" starts. I phoned L, who was very gracious about everything, and was able to reschedule our first meeting for tomorrow. Then I phoned E, who sounded pretty dubious about the story I was telling her (it's all rather confusing: the performance is two nights running, and I had forgotten which night my tickets were for). She asked me to write her an email, saying that she would go online in about half an hour. This was all three hours ago. As yet, no answer from E. This is where the "ouch" gets more painful, because I like her quite a lot, and have been excited by my hopes that she must might be the one. I don't know what she's thinking, but I know that like most Russian women, she has enough experience of being jerked around by men, and I can't blame her if she suspects that I'm jerking her around too. I have a bit of a knot in the old gut right now. I'll keep you posted, how things develop. To look at the bright side, though making such a mistake wasn't part of the first impression I hoped to make on L, it speaks very well of her that she has been so flexible and understanding. Some FSU women have a severe "princess" complex, and love to be offended by any defect in a man's behavior (guys who have been through the mill, will understand what I mean). Such an attitude is catastrophic for marriage -- patience, compassion and understanding are all necessary. kiwinorth Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/10/2012 8:34:29 PM   ohhh Durak you should know better,,, he who plays poker is always at the mercy of the dealers and more then one dealer is just to much for any novice of this style of play,,,, how i hate that knotted feeling, why i hate gambling, and a gambling lesson is again in play. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/11/2012 7:56:10 PM   Very late last night, I read an email from E saying (more or less), no problem, she wanted to reschedule anyway due to considerations of family and weather. On the one hand, it was nice for her not to add any "pressure." On the other hand, she seems to be in no hurry about meeting. There are not so many days left in my trip here ... I'll post in the forum, what happens (or doesn't). Tonight I had my first meeting with L. She is cute and sweet, so it was quite nice to have her company. We didn't have a very big "flow" of conversation, which for me is worrying -- I feel the most comfortable, in the relationships where we never seem to run out of things to talk about. [Note: in my meetings with FSU women, this doesn't seem to be much affected by language skill; I've had good (but slow) conversations with ladies where her speech was halting and time had to be taken to consult a dictionary, and on the other side the stream of conversation has simply "dried up" with women whose English was very accomplished.] I noticed that she frequently made a little laugh (usually for no obvious reason) that would last for only a moment. I thought this could be a sign of nervousness, and was concerned that she was ill at ease in our togetherness. Possibly, if we get to a point where she can feel more relaxed, we will converse more freely. I expect we'll probably meet again, and have a chance to see whether we can grow more comfortable. PS (related to the "availability theory" I mentioned in the recent thread titled "Your Reason") -- within a few minutes of meeting, I told her, "you're a mystery to me -- how does someone so pretty come to be alone?" In response, she gestured toward the window (we were at a restaurant) saying, "there are many pretty women here (I understood "here" to mean her Russian city). Many are alone." durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/25/2012 9:15:58 AM   To continue the story ... I did meet up with E, in fact three times in three days. I got to meet her little daughter, as I had told her I hoped to do. It's so bittersweet for me. I'm so attracted to E -- not only is she beautiful to look at, she is energetic, laughs readily, and has a "down to earth" quality, not at all the princess type so common in FSU cities (and so unsuitable for me, see my "Staritsa Wottabich" thread). It's easy to visualize myself falling for her. She dresses simply and at the same time very attractively, and puts on nice makeup when we go to the theater, but she doesn't seem to care deeply about high fashion, surface appearance, or status in general. She seems quite accepting of me, and comfortable around me -- she doesn't mind sitting close, or my taking her hand or kissing her cheek. But if she's interested in me at all, she conceals it exceedingly well. On the first of the three days, I called her in the evening asking if I could come over to her flat with a little surprise (I had just bought the biggest roses I've ever seen). She was out visiting a friend, and it was close to midnight when we met outside her apartment. I at last got to see the little one (sound asleep in the front seat of her SUV), and she invited me up to her apartment where she offered something to eat, and where I stayed for a couple of hours. Her daughter revived for a while, and I got to practice my small Russian with her. She's an awesomely cute kid -- think of Natalie Wood in Miracle on 34th Street (Wood's parents came from Vladivostok and Siberia). Well, along the way, E was telling me she planned to leave the city the next day for her parents' country house (E hates the city). My heart, very much set on having some quality time together, absolutely sank -- it was looking like this late-night visit would be the last of it. But after they disappeared for a few minutes to get her daughter ready for bed, the little girl came back to gravely invite me to come visit tomorrow. E told me, that she asked her child why she wanted me to visit again, and that the answer was "because." I joked (in Russian) that I don't speak Russian well, but I speak "child" well. So, my emergency was saved by the little one. (This is sadly familiar -- I was head-over-heels in love with a Ukrainian girl whose mother and tiny son adored me; however, the young woman didn't.) My night time visit ended in their doorway, mother holding little daughter in her arms -- I kissed both on the cheek, and laughed a few times during the ride to my apartment. I visited their apartment in the evening of the next day, drawing pictures and playing with the daughter for a while. On their last day, I persuaded E to go to an amusement park in her city, thinking that the little girl would like it. We lucked out big with the weather (which in general had been cool and rainy), and it was pretty sweet -- it was the child's first time at such a place. But I was bummed that we couldn't ride the Ferris wheel together -- they have a height restriction, and E's daughter was too small. Our time together ended in E's little SUV (we were waiting for a nephew to arrive, who would ride with her to her parents' place), talking and munching chips together. Completely in character, E expressed no curiosity about when (or even whether) I might visit again. I don't see any future there ... but the domestic quality of our togetherness, was deeply sweet. They are both so appealing; it was like having a little taste of the family life I have long dreamed of. Batman Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/26/2012 9:27:08 PM   Nice post Durak. beemer18 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2012 2:32:00 AM   Durak...thanks for sharing your story, always entertaining hearing about experiences!!!! but......maybe you are TOO much of a nice guy. I wonder if girls think you are too weak...think about it. Easy to confuse someone being a gentleman with someone being weak. You seem to usually be way more into the women than they are into you. Your statements ..."But if she's interested in me at all, she conceals it exceedingly well." or "Completely in character, E expressed no curiosity about when (or even whether) I might visit again." these tell a lot...almost seem to be excuses? Hope I am being helpful to you. Sometimes it is hard to see the forest from the trees!! lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2012 3:17:07 AM   I think beemer has something there. They are used to men being total asses,,, drunk and/or uncaring. After my 2010 trip to Kherson, my father said something right out of the blue. He said;,,, “Sometimes,,,, people will take a kind or polite person,,, and treat him like some kind of dummy or fool!!” I hadn’t talked about the trip at all,,, but he was right on the money. I think when these women go on one of their tantrums or tirades,,,, (for no good reason),, they are sizing up a person. To see what they can get,, or get away with. I wonder if they know just how ugly and unattractive they become, when they throw one of their bitchy fits?? My ex in Kiev did one of these at the airport. We were sitting in that coffee café on the right hand side of KBP-B. There was a glass on the corner of our table, and she was getting close to bumping it off,,, I moved it to the center of the table?! For my efforts,,, I received a lecture for several minutes, about how she is able to take care of herself and is not a little child!!!! In my country,,, what I did is considered to be a common courtesy and worthy of praise,,,, not a tirade! In fact,,, this very same theme was used in a commercial a couple of years ago,, I don’t remember what company it was for,,, but it was to show;, if you do good to others,,, good will happen to you!!!! The idea of “Common Courtesy” must be completely foreign to them?!! ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2012 2:41:21 PM   Now, you make up that LR is gay. Is it possible for you to post without making things up or lying? lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/1/2012 2:49:14 AM   If I were gay, I'd be searching in Australia,,, you are all quite queer dungunder!! They look for men???? So how could you find someone?? Don't you fancy the Ladybois??? Bungunder!! durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/1/2012 10:32:16 AM   @beemer: You may well be onto something, though I'm not quite grasping it ... could be my blind spots about myself. It seems entirely possible, that women do see me as weak, or at least missing some related quality they want in a man. Where I kind of lost the thread of what you were saying, is around where you wrote "almost seem to be excuses" -- I don't see what, or whom, I would be excusing. I didn't meet E in a dating context such as a website or agency -- rather, it was business. I knew from the start that she was a single mom, but she didn't advertise herself as "looking." Despite probing a bit, I haven't heard from her that she doesn't have a boyfriend -- though since our recent meetings, I think it unlikely that she has much of a "love life" (her daughter won't go to bed without mom being there). When I meet a woman from an international dating website, she has at least advertised that she's in the market for a husband, and by agreeing to meet me, she's signaled that I'm a candidate. Not having this background with E, I have walked carefully -- maybe way too carefully, which is perhaps what you're saying. But I didn't feel that I had quite the standing to club her over the head and drag her by the hair back to my cave. It was only after the second time we met socially, that I switched from the formal to the familiar inflections of Russian with her. Russian women tend to be much more reserved than (for example) American women, around people they don't know very well. FWIW, I think this is rather more true in Russia than in Ukraine. And as an individual, E seems very matter-of-fact about almost everything -- she doesn't like to dramatize or show much feeling about matters large or small. For both of these reasons, she's not unlike a good poker player. Well, I have a lot more questions than answers, and I appreciate any suggestions you lads are kind enough to offer. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/2/2012 12:32:08 AM   Mr. Durak, a mother's life is her kid. Be like her. Try focusing not on her needs, but the needs of her daughter. Flowers are great. But, I'm sure you would have gotten further if she got no flowers, and you instead used the money to buy her kid something. I don't know if you are already doing that, but it always worked for me. bowhunter Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/2/2012 6:57:48 AM   I also noticed the matter of fact attitude a few times. Not necessarily in the same context but I did notice it. It seemed like almost an acceptance of the situation at hand and nothing could be done so time to move on. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/2/2012 10:09:29 AM   @rb: Funny you should mention that :) I love children, and needed no time at all to become fond of the little one. Mom is definitely aware of that! And as it happens, I have spent a lot more on things for her daughter, than on flowers for her. But my experience years ago with Anna the Ukrainian girl was a crystal-clear example: I adored her little son, who's one of the most luminous children I've ever known -- and she appreciated that a lot. But she valued me only as a friend, and quite naturally wanted a man who inspired passion in her. She found such a man, who was close to her age (many years my junior). Certainly, for a caring mother it is deeply important that a man she would bring into her life look like a good prospect as a stepfather. But becoming a mother doesn't stop her from wanting all the other things most women dream of. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/2/2012 10:43:11 AM   @bow: Thanks for your observation. As I and some other men on the forum have written about more than once -- in danny's case quite powerfully -- life Over There is often much harder than most of us in the West can really understand. It's like taking the prosperity and education of western Europe ... and the poverty, violence and chaos of central Africa ... and putting them in blender. Most of us are lucky enough, that our idea of a "bad day" or "bad news" is pretty mild compared to the "bad" that so many Russians know. I suppose that such exposure to the hardness of the world, can bring about attitudes of acceptance/resignation. Thank God, E also takes in life with much humor -- she often laughs, and has a humorous sparkle in her eyes -- this is one of the things that drew me to her. One of the times we met for a concert, she was rather late arriving (she drives, and the traffic is awful), so I waited for her where I thought she was going to park. When we made contact by phone, she had parked next to the theater a few blocks away, so I walked to the theater, only to find that she had walked to square I had previously been standing -- it was like a scene from a goofy comedy. I expect at this point, the typical "Russian princess" reaction would have been fury, but as I anxiously said into my phone, "stay right there, I'm coming!" she simply laughed. I even find her parking technique endearing -- she drives her mini SUV diagonally to the curb until she surmounts it with one tire, and then simply stops the engine, with the car partly on the sidewalk and at a dramatic angle to all the other vehicles. __________________________________________________________________ ________ PS About the hard side of Russian life (and things get at least as bad, if not worse, in most of the other former Soviet Republics): if any reader of this forum would like some evocative visual images, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARdaqWiQjTQ the trailer for a recent movie "To Live" (or "Living") by a Russian playwright. To my eye, at least, it rings painfully true. Not everything is so grim as that; this author focuses on the dark side. During the 90s when jobs were very scarce, and even those with jobs sometimes weren't paid, he supported himself for a while by running a special taxi service, shuttling prostitutes to their clients and back. lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/4/2012 9:29:04 PM   Durak,, that was quite the video, it does show the darkness that seems to cover much of the FSU. Another good,,, old,, movie is; The Russia House, with Sean Connery and Michelle Pfeiffer. I think anyone who is seriously thinking about making the trip should see it!! A lot has happened in the past and is still happening today, that brings out a lot compassion and sympathy on our part. But when I think about all of the bogus agency letters, scammers and time wasters, my compassion comes to an abrupt halt. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/5/2012 10:41:21 AM   "Rb .....it worked for you... Comming from an elderly man living alone. Loosing money is all that worked. Trying to win her love through her daughter is stupid and foolish." Again you make things up. You have nothing to add other than lies. You don't know what is going on with me. How I win her love anyone else's love will win her or how anyone else wins anyone else's love is none of your business. Who asked you? The fun is over with you. You are through. You cannot win anyone else's love. You cannot do it again. It's over. Others will do it, but not you. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/5/2012 11:10:49 AM   Mr. Durak you and I have the "Damsel in distress syndrome". As men, we tend to want to save the damsel in distress. kiwinorth Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/5/2012 9:00:37 PM   durak, this girl hasnt put herself out there searching for a man, she has a little big love in her life, and possibly rather content with all else from what i get, just a very independent girl. so everything you know about wanting girls, agencys and that common ground over there where both of ya know whats what with internet dating isnt relative here. her matter of fact character is just a show of cause, a wall if you like,, whats behind it will be another thing and not always bad. dose she think of you, i'm sure she dose, how could she not with your sudden interest in her. she has let you in to her personal world of been a mother, thats interesting, i'm sure she enjoyed how it made you shine. dont forget some mothers just dont bother with all that girly stuff like other wanting women, they havent the time to dream in such a way. she will be thinking or pondering about you thats for sure, to what point who knows. until you get a definite not interested i reckon be positive. this girl will take less chances then most others of cause, she will need to feel more assured that all is well and if things do go wrong it will be ok,,, that time thing. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/7/2012 10:51:04 AM   Hey Danny. You should stop making things up about other people. If he had any decent sense like you do not have, your boy will surely hate you. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/7/2012 12:22:35 PM   @kiwi, I value your thoughtful encouragement. I haven't yet given up on this case ... though she told me she doesn't like to write, we had an exchange of emails a few days ago, and her messages to me are always quite cheery. I'll let all of you blokes know, if anything develops... Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Ouch: Made a Mistake
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