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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > FSU Orphans Author Post ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/28/2012 9:38:12 PM   The US Congress passed a sanctions bill against Russia for human rights abuses. US President Obama signs it. Russian President Putin retaliates by banning adoptions. The news says that US parents have adopted more than 60,000 Russian children since the fall of the Soviet Union. Not mentioned are Ukraine and the other FSU countries. My question is why are there so many orphans in the FSU? Do both parents die? Are they abandoned? jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/29/2012 3:40:03 PM   Ukraine has substandard medical care, high rates of alcoholism, and extreme poverty. Parents may well be dead, ill or financially unable to care for their children. Often parets give them up if they know they cannot care for them. But no matter how you look at it Putins ban on adoption has got to be a good thing for Ukraine. Its racist, I grant you, but a lot of affluent white adoptive parents want a child that looks like them. Black or Asian babies don't fit that bill. So they looked to Russia. Now with Russia out of the picture (I think I saw something about 30,000 babies per year? Was that right?) those parent are going to look to Ukraine. sunvolt Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/29/2012 3:55:39 PM   My former girlfriend was a full time adoption agency worker in Kyiv almost 24/7. Americans were waiting in line for her services from greeting them at the airport to taking them abroad handling all itinerary,train tickets,hotels,visiting orphanages and handling all correspondence and dociers at Ukrainian court because americans couldn`t speak the language.They pay a huge sum of money for adoption for that blonde hair blue eyed child they cant find anywhere else in the world.Ukrainian orphanges are a bad scene she said.Many of these children are never held or loved or adopted.Many die young in them also.Most have there own cemetaries right on location. She cried alot to me about this. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/29/2012 4:20:07 PM   @rb: Russia has a very large population of children who are under some kind of institutional care. There are conflicting reports of how many, but more than once I have read approximately 800,000 -- not only this is a staggeringly large number, it is (reportedly) greater than in 1945, after at least 20 million Soviet citizens had died during the war! Most of these children are not literally orphans, but have at least one living parent unable or unwilling to raise them. Some of the causes of this situation (in my opinion): * Most importantly, endemic substance abuse, mostly alcoholism but including other drugs as well. Tragically, many of these children have irreparable brain impairment from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, or other consequences of their mothers' drug abuse. FAS covers a spectrum, at the extreme end such severe brain damage that they will never be able to live independently, hold a job, or have a family of their own. Many of these drug abusing parents are incapable of raising a child, or simply uninterested. * Death rates are much higher than in the west, and lifespans much shorter. Remember that more than 140 countries have better average longevity, than do Russia or Ukraine. This contributes to the number of actual orphans, but has other knock-on effects (see below). * Due to poverty (very roughly, the average Russian's income is about $1 for every $5 of average American income), families are usually small (with 1 or 2 children), and of very limited resources. Combine this with shorter lifespans, and you can see how there are less grandparents, aunts, uncles or cousins for each lost child -- and of those relatives who might wish to take care of the child, some will be deterred or prevented from doing so by poverty. * Russians are (reportedly) more likely to abandon an "imperfect" child with any kind of birth defect or developmental disorder. * Russians are less interested in adoption -- if they want children, they want their own offspring. To be compassionate, I understand that taking on the (sometimes permanent) obligation of caring for a special-needs child is very much harder in a poor country, than a wealthy country. @jetmba: I have read a LOT of negative comments about Americans who adopt from abroad: they are selfish, racists, baby buyers, baby stealers, human traffickers, etc. etc. What most of these comments have in common, is that they are made by people who are TOTALLY IGNORANT about the challenges of adoption. Americans adopt more children from Ethiopia, than from Russia. I can understand why uninformed people assume that "white baby" desire is why Americans adopt from the FSU -- but this is obviously not true of many adoptive families, and a terribly unfair accusation. To consider just one of many factors, when a fair-skinned couple adopts a brown-skinned child, the family will forever have, in effect, a flashing neon sign that says "THIS KID ISN'T OURS, HE'S ADOPTED" -- and the way people respond to that family will always reflect that. Personally, I can understand thoughtful parents worrying about such consequences. sunvolt Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/29/2012 4:38:14 PM   But i ask this question, why don`t black or dark skinned couples ever adopt a white baby or white orphan? Maybe i am blind but i have never seen it in my life here in USA ? jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/29/2012 4:42:27 PM   @durak: The amount of "white baby desire" is not adequately shown in figures for international adoption, as many families who would not even consider a nonwhite baby simply adopt within the USA. You seemed to attribute an unduly negative accusation on my comment. I am fully aware of the fact that a baby of a different color CAN scream "he's adopted". It might also scream "SOMEONE IN OUR FAMILY HAD AN INTERRACIAL RELATIONSHIP!" and not wanting the second connotation could certainly be considered racist. "and the way people respond to that family will always reflect that." How would people respond to the family differently knowing that a child in that family was adopted? If I were married to a white woman and chose to adopt, I would quite likely want to adopt a white baby, simply because it would LOOK like me. I make no apologies or other excuses to those who might consider such sentiment racist. But to me it sounds like you are rationalizing, that others might treat the family different knowing a child was adopted. As an adoptee myself, with a brother and a sister who were also adopted, and many people knew this - I never felt any sort of stigma was attached to our family. blu_craze Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/29/2012 5:19:28 PM   Well, one day when and if I adopt which I do want to I would probably adopt from the worst, most impoverished country I can. While I want a child I can love and adore I also want to save a childs life and while I can not stop whats going on, not even close I can at least do something so small, yet so huge. And race holds no sway in my life for there is only one race, the Neanderthals and the others died off ages ago. Rick4girl Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/29/2012 9:58:00 PM   Durak's post is very accurate. First of all, Americans often are willing to adopt regardless of skin color. Asian children are among the top of the list in preference for adoptive families although central and south American children are also right up there. contrary to wide held beliefs, about half of adoptive families in America adopt a child of a different ethnic background. In FSU culture, it is quite normal to give up or abandon a child with special needs for a variety of reasons I need not get into. According to The Russian Ministry of children's official stats, in 2011 there were 760,xxx children in the system. half of which were given up voluntarily with the other half being deprived of their rights for a variety of reasons. In 2011, 7068 children were adopted by Russian parents vs nearly 16,000 adopted by American parents. In Ukraine, approximately 180,xxx children were in the orphanage system with nearly 300,000 parents deprived of parental rights. Only about 700 Ukrainian parents adopted domestically in 2011 while 2600 Americans adopted children in that year. The problem in Ukrainian adoptions is that the process is very much corrupt. Many people dont realize that the average ACTUAL adoption fees, including court costs, processing, paperwork, passports and attorney's fees is less than $2000 while the average American pays from a minimum of 25k to as much as 30k. The director of an orphanage in Kherson that I worked from 2004-2011 was actively engaged in child selling to the highest bidder. My charity did about $100,000 in improvements to bring it up to western standard of living for the children and it became a very popular source for children. A very big scandal came in 2007 in which the director had promised a very wonderful little girl to an America family only to then give the child to an Italian couple who offered more for her after she had taken thousands already from the American family. although she had made many thousands of dollars from this practice she was never prosecuted and remains the director. I was even offered a little girl for "only $5000" that had bonded with me after her arrival there. Probably still should have done it as I wouldnt mind a couple more kids. But, yes, Ukraine will quickly benefit from these developments in Russia. Knowing the system and having the connections I probably could make serious money but I cant wrap my head around the fact that its big business essentially selling kids. Under Yanukovych, this system isnt likely to change due to the massive amount of money involved and Americans desperate to adopt. lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/30/2012 1:18:59 AM   My wife Irina told me that only babies with a defect are allowed to be adopted. Not some or most,,, but all and only babies with a mental or physical defect. She was from Russia and this was 1999. During my trips to Russia and Ukraine over the last four years, I’ve ran into several people who were in the process of adopting. I asked each if they knew their baby might have a defect,,, and they said: Yes! durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/7/2013 11:35:45 PM   From a journal in Russia, an article titled "An Adoption Law Only King Herod Would Sign" http://www.sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=2&story_id=36797 < br>sad. Rick4girl Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/8/2013 12:24:16 AM   LR1701 wrote: "My wife Irina told me that only babies with a defect are allowed to be adopted. Not some or most,,, but all and only babies with a mental or physical defect" thats still the general rule but its usually waived after 8 months after a child is registered as being available for adoption. The trick is that most Americans arent aware of all the "normal" kids available because the ones with a "defect" are the ones listed for foreign adoption. Having access to the orphanage system I can easily pick a child I want that is healthy and could complete the process in weeks for only a few hundred bucks. If only Americans knew how the system worked and if they only knew the language and how to circumvent the corrupt middlemen, both Ukrainian and Americans are involved in it. Ive helped several people save thousands and get a child quickly but have never profited from it. I only ask that they teach the child the language and traditions of Ukraine. One couple in Louisville have done a great job of this. They cant speak it still but last time I saw her this summer she was quite good in Russian and could have conversation with me. I was thrilled that she also knew Kyiv as the capital and her birth city. kiwinorth Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/8/2013 5:05:43 AM   between russia and ukraine i think its hitting 900-950 thou those fees spoken of are closer to 50k if not it is 50k, the highest percentage went to the state of cause, from memory about 10k only went to the orphanages, the agencys had the rest of the shake,, i know my share of people who have adopted here, and more then one child from russia. they were not problem children, possibly the price dictated this, or just lucky who knows. americans are the highest adopters for sure. in my mind on the russian side its a disgusting state of affairs no matter how you look at it. 3 quarters of a million children in a place they should never be and then the state selling them. what could be worse then this, maybe very little hope of american or any foreign adoption.. people are so cruel ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/8/2013 1:39:08 PM   Why would anyone do that to his own people who are children? This is the same man President Obama is prepared to make concessions to in regards to Russian nuclear weapons pointed at Europe. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/9/2013 12:44:31 AM   Somebody made an online "poster" that perfectly captures the insanity of Russia's punish-the-orphans response to the US Magnitsky Act. It shows president Putin, above Russian words that translate, "If NATO invades Syria, we start bombing Voronezh" ... Voronezh being a Russian city of almost 900,000 inhabitants. If you want to see an image of this, try the following link (as always, edit out any spaces that might appear in the URL): http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/734949_101513970592072 69_1768606406_n.jpg I don't know whether this works, if you're not logged in to facebook. lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/9/2013 10:54:49 PM   I hope that things like this will remind people that the cold war never ended,,,, it just went in a different direction! lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/11/2013 11:45:25 AM   http://news.yahoo.com/russian-nuclear-submarine-enters-160331789.html durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/14/2013 1:09:20 PM   A mass protest in Moscow, against the law prohibiting adoptions by Americans: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/13/russia-adoption-ban -thousands-march_n_2468647.html As usual, edit out any spaces when pasting this URL into a web browser's address control. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/14/2013 2:19:57 PM   I was told that a couple from our church has adopted Russian children. I do not know these children. I assume that they do not have defects because I do not see any children there with defects. My sister's sister in law adopted a couple of children in the US. They look just like their parents. I was told they spent $40K for the adoptions. Rick4girl Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/15/2013 7:11:00 PM   Danny, the only obstacle now in Russia is time. They claim there is 18,000 Russians on waiting list to adopt although Im not sure of the validity as only 4000 adoptions were actually done in 2012. Foreign adoptions from Russia are similar to dating agencies. Its all about making money off desperate foreigners. They are Australians? lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/16/2013 2:17:28 AM   Rick,, didn’t you know that danny believes Australia is part of Russia!! And you can get there by train!!! 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