@ Durak: You say that we can expect that fares will rise closer to $800 as summer approaches. I have never paid less than $1,050 for a roundtrip to Kiev from NY or Philadelphia for travel in May, June, July, or September, usually I pay a lot more. I would be interested in knowing what search engine or airline you are using. I have found that almost always the least expensive fares to Kiev are either Aeroflot or Delta from JFK.
@lonelyranger1701: You need not fear Paris, as I have changed planes three times in Paris and many times in Frankfurt and I have never had a problem with making connections. I have always avoided London because it has a reputation for losing luggage so I can't speak for that connection.
Most here seem to lament the passing of this airline, but I am happy to see it go. A fellow traveler paid over $600 for a round trip from Kiev to Lugansk, though I must say that they had the latest jets on that route. The last time that I flew them was a couple of years ago from Kiev to Odessa. I can't complain about the ticket price as it was reasonable (about $128), particularly since I bought it at the last minute at the airport, but the plane was a Boeing jet built in the early 1960s. The entire interior was spray painted gray/silver and the seats were the original with thin cloth covers on them. You can't imagine how loud the engines were, and I was sitting in the front of the plane. If this is the best they can do, it is good that they are no longer in business. UIA is no better. I once flew them from Paris to KBP and they lost my luggage. They found it a day later, and it took them another week to get it to me. It was delivered to me by two men in a little car (that could easily have fit in the back of my pickup truck) from Kiev all the way to Odessa.
ďWhat data do you want? Like you did in the "gun" thread? LR did not believe your data, but I accepted it. What I don't believe is that you can make a better conclusion giving data for one set of facts. You need many data from many facts or your data is useless.Ē
I donít think durak made a mistake reporting the numbers that he did,,, just that the source (UN) has a reason to be biased. Plus,,, where does the UN get their numbers from?? I donít recall seeing a UN office in our courthouse,,, so some agency(s) must be reporting the local stats,, and local governments are VERY party (political) oriented!
I also believe that unions kill companies, they want to keep what they have and always want more! It doesnít matter to them that the company they are working for will go under. Iím glad the Hostess company played hardball with the union,, those workers belong on the street in a cardboard box!
Years ago,, 1980ís we had a Wisconsin based tractor company end production because of the unions,, and they decided to import tractors and put their own name on them. That lasted less than 10 years.
About your trip on the nasty old Boeing jet ... on AeroSvit?
I'm wondering whether you didn't get something mixed up in your recollection. AeroSvit was a fairly young airline, and it seems unlikely to me that they operated any antique jets. Going back to 2005, their oldest _model_ was a single 737-200, which was produced from 1968 to 1988. AeroSvit's probably wasn't an early production model.
AeroSvit did codeshare with Pulkovo (renamed to Rossiya after the flight 612 disaster). Perhaps you flew on a Russian airline's Tu-134 or Tu-154? The spartan interiors of those jets were reminiscent of Boeings from an earlier age.
I have absolutely no brand loyalty. I book whatever flight is cheapest. I've made connections in Italy, Germany, France, Russia, Netherlands, and Finland. I'd have no worries connecting in the UK, Poland, Hungary, or wherever else.
Every airport has its ups and downs. The extra security at Frankfurt is a pain in the ass, but on the other side, when I am coming from the USA, they have these wonderful quiet hallways with muted lighting and lounge-style horizontal seats where you can actually catch some sleep! How civilized is that?
I'm lucky enough to be in decent condition, so if a have to lug my gear a few kilometers (not exaggerating) to get between gates, it's not a problem.
My policy is, if I don't know the airport well, allow a minimum of 90-120 minutes layover (as I mentioned elsewhere, add an hour if the connection is in your destination country and you must deal with passport control/baggage claim/customs).
I'm lucky in a way, I usually use JFK, rated one of the world's worst international airports! (And several times I used the old Delta terminal at JFK, which was certainly the worst terminal in one of the worst airports.) So what fear do foreign aerodromes hold for me?
Kayak.com! Sometimes I used to find better deals on other travel websites, or going directly to an airline website. But kayak's coverage gets better and better, and it is rare that looking elsewhere does any good.
Though there was a situation in the past year (I've forgotten all the details), where a fare jumped up (a lot, maybe 20%) on one site I was watching, but I was able to snag the lesser fare on another (literally within 15 minutes, I didn't wait!)
My trips often include more than one city, so the tickets get a bit complicated. But I'm sure I've never paid as much as $1000 for a round-trip, I would remember crossing the 4-digit barrier!
I wonder, do you make short visits (less than 7 days)? There can be a cost penalty for those. Also, if you only fly on weekends, that could make the fares higher. (I say "can" and "could" because in the crazy world of airfares, almost nothing is consistent.)
I just priced airfares from NYC to Kyiv, 6 to 9 nights duration, for early May, late May, early June, late June, and mid July ... all with departures Fri, Sat, Sun or Mon, and was able to find acceptable flights (no long layover or obscure airline) all under $850. If you're willing to fly TransAero (I've flown them once, everything was fine!), you can save a little more.
Personally, I don't work on a regular schedule, so traveling in mid-week isn't a problem for me. Often, I can adjust my travel dates by 1, 2 or sometimes 3 days to get the best fare ... I figure if I can save $100 on the ticket, that will cover the cost of an extra day's stay.
"I donít think durak made a mistake reporting the numbers that he did,,, just that the source (UN) has a reason to be biased. Plus,,, where does the UN get their numbers from?? I donít recall seeing a UN office in our courthouse,,, so some agency(s) must be reporting the local stats,, and local governments are VERY party (political) oriented!"
I don't dispute the accuracy of the data. Any data can be manipulated to support an agenda. Durak could be right. You could be. I don't know. I don't care. I really don't care right now about gun rights. I care more about the economy. A lot more. With Durak's sudden condescending attitude and vulgarity, I don't believe he doesn't have an agenda other than state the facts, as he has stated.
ďI'm wondering whether you didn't get something mixed up in your recollection. AeroSvit was a fairly young airline, and it seems unlikely to me that they operated any antique jets. Going back to 2005, their oldest _model_ was a single 737-200, which was produced from 1968 to 1988. AeroSvit's probably wasn't an early production model. ď
Durak,, I received a PM saying that 707ís have not been used in years,,,, but Iím 99% sure I was on one within the Ukraine. From Kiev to Odessa or between Kiev and Lugansk. I was also on a ďYakĒ and a ďSaabĒ prop plane,,, which I really liked.
This last summer I read online that an American airline was buying up old MDís and refurbishing them instead of buying new planes,,,,, I guess it was cheaper
When you were on the old 4-engine jet, any recollection which airline that was? The ever-useful wikipedia has a big table of current and former operators of the 707 (yes, a few small organizations still fly them) -- if the table is accurate, they were never flown by Russian or Ukrainian carriers. This makes sense to me, because they certainly wouldn't have bought US aircraft in Soviet times, and by the time the Soviet Union died, 707s had practically vanished. If a new post-Soviet airline wanted to expand its fleet cheaply, its best option was old Soviet-made planes. When FSU airlines buy western jets, they seem to go for new ones.
In Russia, there are numerous small airlines (and when I say small, I mean some have only one plane) that operate some old, strange, and scary-looking aircraft.
I won't say that I'd never fly such an airline ... but I have no dependents! I do have a long-standing interest in aviation safety, and a small library on the topic.
My information is years old, but as I recall, if you divide the world into (A) major first-world airlines, plus airlines in poorer countries with world-class safety regimes (for example, post-Soviet Aeroflot); and (B) all other scheduled air carriers ... the (B) airlines have fatal accident rates many times (around 10 times) those of (A) airlines.
I'm guessing that the disparity is even greater now, because the (A) category operations have gotten even safer than they used to be.
So, if you ever find yourself boarding a flight operated by Yakutia Airlines ... or Severstal Air Company ... or, God help you, 2nd Arkhangelsk United Aviation Division (seriously, I didn't make that up!), think of it as something like base jumping from El Capitan, attempting to summit Everest, or getting into any vehicle with a member of the Kennedy family at the controls. There's no guarantee you'll make it back alive, but if you do, you'll long remember the adventure.
Perhaps you're thinking of DniproAvia, which along with DonBassAero had been acquired by AeroSvit, so they are all dead together :
As I mentioned above, the interiors of the old Soviet airliners are (for me) reminiscent of the first jets from my childhood memories. I think my first jet trip was on a 727, but I'm not at all sure about that. What I remember clearly was the awful earache and deafness I experience with the changes in cabin pressure!
Thatís why only Ukraine Air is showing up inside Ukraine?! I knew at the time that two of the airlines were working together,,, their flight numbers were the same,, taking off at the same time.
My worst earache was on my first series of flights in 1998. Green Bay-Detroit-JFK- Helsinki-SVO. From JFK to SVO,,, the plane was up over 40,000 for a while,,, 42,000 if memory serves. It was a big MD 30 or 40?
I had the worst headache! Little sleep,,, and long layovers in JFK and Helsinki,,, 9 and 13 hours.
Iíve since learned to take a Claritin-D and chew gum.
Now you guys have me wondering about the plane, but I know that the flight I was speaking of from KBP to Odessa was on AeroSvit or one of its subsidiaries, definately not on UIA. I bought the ticket at KBP and immediately flew to Odessa on the evening of Thursday September 25, 2009. Maybe you are right that it was a Russian plane if the interior was identical to that of a Boeing, but I could have sworn it was a Boeing. I have used kayak.com for domestic flights in the US, but to go to Europe my two old standby discounters are www.cheapair.com and www.tfitours.com. Both are real travel agencies in that you can book online or over the phone at no extra charge. Don't confuse CheapAir with another company named CheapOAir. TFI Tours is a NYC travel agency that gives very good service. Avoid WizzAir like the plague, unless you have no luggage, then it is ok. I have changed planes in many different European cities and they are all the same, wherever you can save money, but the worst is Paris, because if you arrive hungry, you will starve before they open the restaurants at CDG. I have purposely avoided London because British Airways can't seem to transport one without losing their luggage. And that is a shame because I have heard many times that British Airways is the most advanced airline in the world when it comes to safety.
I am not taking sides on this union argument, or any argument for that matter, and I am certainly not defending the unions, but I believe that it was something besides the unions that killed the airline. I say this because I flew AeroSvit or its subsidaries quite a few times both ways between KBP and Odessa, and KBP and Dnipropetrovsk, and each time the planes were full, or almost full, so apparently there was a demand for the service. If the union wages were high and the company had a hard time negotiating them downward, the airline could have just raised the prices to compensate. After all, they owned the competing airline on most of their routes!! LOL And if they lost passengers to price increases, they could adjust their capacity as all airlines do. My guess is that the business empire of the Ukranian billionaire who owned these airlines ran into financial or political trouble after the 2008 economic crisis which hit Ukraine especially hard. I would hope that UIA takes over these two routes asap because they are vital to the Ukraine economy for business travel to DNK and for tourism to Odessa/Black Sea coast.
"Perhaps you're thinking of DniproAvia, which along with DonBassAero had been acquired by AeroSvit, so they are all dead together : "
@durak.......Maybe you should check out the arrivals and departures from KBP, for some reason there are still stand alone flights with DniproAvia usually to Dnipropetrovsk along with a couple other small cities.
@wineman....at moment only one flight each way between KBP-ODS each day...... which in summer it will increase to 2 flights each day each way, morning/evening
as stated before, dniproavia and uia fly to Dnipropetrovsk.
Not sure why you speak of CDG harshly...restaurants? I am in airport so short of time(short connections) I have no time to eat, don't they feed you on plane? I get 2 meals when I fly to Europe.
All the Odessa Kiev flights were codeshare between UIA and Aerosvit. Im not sure if aerosvit is operating any planes but until recently at least it was still selling codeshare flights.
CDG is a pain because of 5 badly laid out terminals with a crappy bus service and if you were changing airlines you cannot transit without a boarding pass. A few times i was stuck in no mans land waiting for hrs for a transit desk to open so I could transit unlike most civilised airports where you can pass security with a ticket and enter the transit lounge then get boarding pass when the flight registration opens.
Even though I could pass immigration why would I want to? Wander around around aimlessly in departure checkin area instead?