I met someone from Ukraine and have been over there to see her several times. I have become quite familiar with how a lot of girls operate over there. I have met several friends of Irina and have gotten to know them well. I am happy I met her but I can tell you it could have gone a lot smoother if I had know more about what I was getting into when I started this.
At least 5 of her friends have profiles on various dating sites. The one just got married actually yet still has all her profiles up and running. One of them who has an active profile I have got to know her husband well, she complains about him but I doubt very much they will divorce, if you check her profile she says "never married with 1 child" when in fact she has 2.
These are all real girls, the birth dates are real and so are the pictures, so from that point of view when a site says they have "verified" someone they are telling the truth, however the site has no way to know (and does not want to know) details of their personal life.
If you want to save yourself a ton of money and also avoid being scammed, sign up for a VK account before you message another girl.
VK, if you do not know is a Russian version (knockoff) of facebook. If you sign up on there you can search for the girl you are thinking of talking to, more often than not they will actually have some of the same photos they are using on the dating site on their VK account. Along with pictures of their children they tell you they do not have and in some cases their husbands or boyfriends.
Best way to do this is to search by city, and the month and day of their birthday. Don't use the year because most girls on VK lie about their age by a year or two.
It took a while to figure this out but if I pick a random profile now I can typically find the person on VK within a minute or two at the most.
If you can't find the person on VK be very careful, as some of the real pro scammers have caught onto this and don't put their city in on VK, or they put a fake birth date so you can't find them. If you can't find them by the exact date try using just the month and a age range, if she says she is 30 on the dating site try 25-31 for example.
Most girls are not pro scammers at all, they do it to make a few extra dollars and having the right info on VK for all their friends is more important than losing out on some chat money.
In fact, most of these people are very friendly good people, you have to know that they often live on $300 a month, many people in Ukraine are very poor. While to you or me making an extra $100 a month or less might be nothing, to them it is the difference between having enough money for food or not. So before you freak out and say how bad they are, come over to Ukraine and see how these people live and how hard many of them work for almost nothing in terms of income.
Having said that, you don't want to become attached to someone who has a husband or boyfriend so use VK and if stuff does not check out just move on to someone else. Some profiles are legitimate but you have to weed out the ones just looking to make some extra cash.
Since I have been able to do this I have found depending on the website that about 70% of the profiles are definitely people just doing it for extra income, the other 30% its hard to say but probably half of them are doing the same also, which leaves you with 15% which are legit.
Another problem which is not the girls fault at all is that once they sign up to one site often times it is next to impossible for them to get off of it. I had this problem with Irina, it took several attempts in most cases, the hardest one was loveme.com. It took about 5 emails, a couple phone calls and sending them pictures of me and Irina together until they finally removed her profile.
One other thing, these girls deal with guys who are "fake" also. They get a ton of messages from guys who they know will never come to Ukraine, so they figure if the guy wants to chat with them and never come see them, what difference does it make if they want a real relationship or not? If they make some money talking to someone who is just using it for entertainment why shouldn't they make a few dollars from it?
If you really want to have a relationship with someone from Ukraine, find someone you think you are interested in and go there and meet them. Even if it does not work out at least you will know what you are getting into and if its something you want.
If the girl checks out on VK I do not recommend messaging them on VK right away, the few dollars you save not using the dating site will not be worth it as you will probably freak her out and she may not want to talk to you. Just use it as a way to verify they are not married and they are what you are looking for. Check out what groups they are in, if its every nightclub in town and that is not for you, move on. Irina had on her dating site profile that she knits and bakes cookies, she is a good mother but not much knitting is going on that is for sure!
You also need to have a job and/or level of wealth which will allow you to do this. I am going to be working in Moscow for a year on assignment starting in a couple weeks so I can visit Irina twice a month. 2 hour flight from Moscow vs 12 from Canada. If you don't have a job which allows you to do this or you cannot afford to visit her at least every other month don't bother.
I met my wife through VK, I believe it is the best way to meet someone from Russia and Ukraine. I met several great girls and still have friendships with many of them. They all know I am married to my wife and only want us to be happy. If I wound up getting divorced and I looked to Ukraine again, I would never use an agency. I would be using VK again.
Dh7,,, good post! Iíve been using Vk like this for some time now. But you need to consider the possibility, that ďeveryĒ word about some of these girls online, is bogus and phony. Iíve found some girls that had a Vk profile created for them by the agency. The girl was never online,,,, but letters from her would appear in my in box, and she almost never visited her own Vk profile.
They donít always post the correct day or month of their birth,, Iíve had several that were a day or a couple of months off.
Iíve found out on my own that some had a child. One woman that is still a fb friend of mine, only has a few friends, and one of them wrote: ďIt was so wonderful to meet you and your wonderful daughter!Ē I just went to her profile for a look,,,, and that post is gone!! But I had found a photo of her and her daughter,,, on a friend of a friend, of a friendís profile. Yes,, sometimes you do need to dig that deep for the truth. I also found a photo of a girl that I was very serious about,, in another manís profile wearing maternity clothing?
ďIf they make some money talking to someone who is just using it for entertainment why shouldn't they make a few dollars from it?Ē
I was taught that two wrongs donít make a right. Some guys might think of those women as being cunning,,, and give them credit for being so,, but I donít. Itís been my experience, that women donít improve with time. Iíve found that if they can get away with something today,,, they will try for more tomorrow.
Getting the women away from the dating sites and into reg email, skype, fb and Vk is a good thing,,, but it is not absolute! A girl that I had met on my 1st trip to Ukraine gave me her phone numbers, and email address. I wrote to her on reg email, but the letters came slow,, and sometimes she would answer them on Aweb? Contact with her was broken shortly after. A year or so later I joined fb,, and let them send out invites to all of my email contacts. Months after that,, someone from that girlís hometown accepted my invite,,,,,, it was some dude!!! At the bottom of his profile was my exís email address,,, which was her name plus mail.ru?? This guy very well could have been the taxi driver that drove her to Lugansk.
Moral of the story,,,, you are going to lose a lot of sleep checking out the honesty of these FSU women! Or, you are going to lose a lot of money.
LR, yes there are fake VK profiles but they are normally pretty easy to spot as they don't get many posts on their wall, the friends list doesn't make sense or is very small and some other things normally stand out. Its true its very hard to know if a girl is sincere or not, at some point you have to take a chance and use your common sense.
If you meet someone and they never want you to meet their friends or family and want to always meet somewhere 2-3 hours away from where they live I would say its a huge red flag. I've met many of Irina's friends, I have been to her apartment several times, met her son, mother, even met her boss who gave me a bottle a Cognac. I have never met a more friendly group of people in my life to be honest. Her boss is a complete drunk but a nice guy, one thing in Ukraine is that the amount of drinking is excessive even by UK standards which I got used to when I was working there. Ukrainians take it to a whole other level!! :))
I do think its very important if you are going to decide to meet someone you consider the costs of having this sort of relationship. Even if you spend very little on the girl you have cost of flights, hotel, etc and you need to be able to have the time away from your work or be able to work remotely as I can in my job. If all you have is 2-3 weeks vacation time each year it really is not going to work, or all you will have is a relationship with someone who also has a boyfriend in Ukraine who you will never know about. Women get lonely as do men, if you can't be there for them, its very likely to end this way.
Another site you can use is classmates (http://www.odnoklassniki.ru) this site is like vk but one warning, if you look at someone's profile on it they will know you have been on it so probably a good idea to create an alias if you are using it to snoop on someone.
If things didn't work out with Irina I would not use a dating site or VK for that matter, I'd just meet someone else in Ukraine in person. It is very easy to get women to be interested in you if you speak English and then enough Russian so you can talk to them. Its actually better not to be fluent Russian because they want to help you speak Russian (and they always try very hard to speak English to you) which makes starting the connection with them very easy.
Dh7,,, one of the fake profiles that Iíve found, had a brother, two cousins, and a couple friends posting those e-cards on her profile for holidays. The girl never liked anything in her own profile or in anyone elseís.
I never met any parents, so I canít speak towards that, but I did meet a brother (different story) along with his girlfriend. The brother and his girl were in on the scam more than the girl herself was. They put on a real charade that was so obvious. It might have been believable if it wasnít so over the top.
That other girl and the brother had a baby, which they are both raising together. She is still on this website with not just one profile,,,,, but three!!
The amount of time that a guy spends over there with the girl is very important. That is the biggest problem for me,,,, I canít get away for long periods. I might have a week here and there,,, but I donít know when in advance. Three times Iíve planed a trip for Nov, and had it get pushed back into Jan. The girls are NOT very understanding when it comes to changing plans. On a couple of occasions, I donít think it was a matter of me not keeping my word,,,, but conflicting with their plans,,, as in meeting other men.
I took a completely different path than it seems most guys do. I went to only see Irina and had no backup date, To add to this when I talked to her at first on fiance.com on video chat I could not see her picture because she said the computer she was using did not have a camera. Which, would be the excuse you would get if it wasn't really her or even some guy that I was chatting to. I had some serious doubts but at the same time I was curious to see what would come of it at the same time. At first it was almost an experiment, plus I always wanted to go to Ukraine anyway since I am 1/2 Ukrainian and always wondered what it was like.
The chance of her being a total scam was actually very high, but before I went and met her I did get to connect with her on Skype so at least I knew she was real. We met in Yalta and we actually had a really good time. She did lie to me about not having any children and I caught her in a couple other lies, nothing serious but as I told her 90% of guys would of given up on you for doing this. I had told her I like children and if someone has children its no problem so I really didn't understand why she lied about that. She explained that until she knew we would have a relationship she didn't want to tell me anything about her life. I believe her and her son is more important to her than anything, that I know for a fact is true.
I thought about her friends being "in on it" as you say, but if that is true I've met at least 20 of her friends many of which start off by telling me how much Irina talks about me to them and they don't seem fake at all. Meeting her mom made me feel more like it was real and last two trips I have spent time with her son. Everyone at the shop she works at must be in on it also, again at some point reasonable suspicion turns to paranoia.
I know for her to introduce me to her son she is very serious, it would not happen otherwise.
I am friends now with a couple guys who are married to some of her friends also and we chat on VK now and then. It have to be a pretty big conspiracy if that is what it is. When I call Irina her mom is almost always there and says hello. I really doubt her mom is in on scamming me. She pretty much always answers the phone and texts me if she misses a call within a few minutes.
She admitted to me that in the past she did "scam" men, one thing that made her feel like it was totally ok to do so is if they were on what she calls a "sex tour" or if they were online and started talking about how much they wanted to have sex with her etc. I actually never said anything like that to her, she is absolutely smoking hot, its like dating a model or movie star to be honest, but what I commented on was her eyes which are truly stunning. She was very surprised when I told her I was not meeting anyone else besides her.
Ukrainian women like to test you, she was always telling me its OK if I meet other women before I came over the first time, obviously she just said that to see what I would do. She also had one of her very hot girlfriends hit on me second time we met to see what I would do also, but I passed that test as well.
It was fun doing all the Russian toasts with her girlfriend where you interlock your arms, take a drink of Vodka and then kiss. That was acceptable to Irina, but she set it up such that I was alone with this girl and all I did was talk to her about Irina, to be honest I knew it was a test before it started but it was fun anyway.
If you do not meet her parents or only a couple friends then yes I would be worried its a scam, from what I understand almost any woman from Ukraine who is serious about you will want you to meet her family.
I imagine if I had treated her differently instead of having a relationship with her she would of scammed me also and moved on.
If you want a real relationship, I suggest not commenting on how much you want to have sex with them especially if they are very hot looking, they get these comments constantly and for the most part instantly turns them off but they won't tell you that, they just instantly group you in a different category, one you do not want to be in.
If you are talking to a real woman then treating them like they are a шлюха is not going to get them interested in a real relationship with you.
LR, Yes if you cannot commit the time there is no way it will work, I think that is a part of the reason the failure rate is so high.
I will agree with you that most Ukrainian women are not very understanding if you need to change plans or are late, meanwhile I know for certain if Irina says we will meet at 12:00 for example, its much more likely going to be closer to 13:00, but that is true of women everywhere I think.
A word of advice, which is also true for Czech women, don't promise anything you have to go back on, better to not say anything than to talk about something good and then later have to cancel or change it even slightly. They are not understanding about this at all. (My previous girlfriend was from Czech Republic). Another country full of goddesses, in fact, probably more hot women than Ukraine but after my nightmare experience with my ex GF it turned me off the entire country. :( If it doesn't work out with Irina perhaps I will try Czech again. Poland has loads of hot women also.
This idea about VK being the ultimate scammer check is flawed. I have searched thorougly a number fo girls there and have found none. Unless they are there with another name, city, age, places of study, etc, they are just not there. You cannot assume that virtually all or most Ukrainian and Russian girls are in VK.
The fact that they will not take you to meet their parents is no sign that they are scammers at all. One lady has explained to me, before I even buy a plane ticket, that she will not introduce me to her parents the first time we meet. She added that she is not going to take to her parents every bugger who turns up to meet her as that is no guarantee that he has honourable intentions or that she will go with him after their first time together.
I do not see the point of pursuing a relationship with a woman who has even admitted to having been a scammer and having lied about small details like having a child but there you go, there are all kinds of men: hot woman, forgive her everything; and you will have to forgive her again and again and again when you are married to her.
She did not tell you she had a child as her relationship with you was more important. Christ! the child is CENTRAL to the relationship.
"She explained that until she knew we would have a relationship she didn't want to tell me anything about her life" Again Jesus! her life is central to your relationship with you.
"I imagine if I had treated her differently instead of having a relationship with her she would of scammed me also and moved on." Right, she did you a favour as she did not scam you, that would have been your punishment for not being serious. Really....
So she looks very hot and is probably one of those who put all kinds of sexy photos on her profile and then she is surprised that men tell her that they are sexually attracted to her; surely they (and you) were supposed to want her for her knowledge of physics.
All I can say is: Please god do not put a woman like this Irina on my path.
WS, I can go on pretty much any dating site which gives you the girls DOB and city and I find about 75% of the girls I look for. See my earlier post on how to do it effectively, at first I didn't find anyone either.
If you don't find them on VK I would be very careful because the real pro scam artists do not have VK accounts, and unless you are seeing someone who lives in one of the small villages pretty much everyone is on either VK or odnoklassniki.ru (classmates)
I know quite a bit about how the scam dating stuff works because the girl I am with now and having a serious relationship with admitted to me she was in fact scamming men for several years but became disgusted by it. She used it as a second source of income after her divorce, she didn't make much, on average a 100 or so a month but when you have an income of $300 a month that makes quite a difference in your life. She is very attractive, movie star looks really and that is in person, not photo shopped. That 100 or so she made means someone was spending over $1000 chatting to her each month. The real crooks in this are the agencies who make this happen not the girls.
There are some women who are truly looking for someone, but some of them decide to scam when they constantly get guys talking to them like they are a whore. Not a good way to get any women you would want to have a serious relationship with interested in you. If you talked to Irina that way she had no issue making you waste as much money as possible. I am certain many other girls feel the same way.
You can find someone in Ukraine and in fact one of the best qualities I like besides appearance is how direct women are there. They don't understand that we say we are "ok" when we really are not. If something bothers a Ukrainian woman you will know about it. They are very direct and that is great, but they don't like it if you are not also direct. For the most part they want you to be the man and decide but they want you to decide to do what it is they want to do. It takes a while to get used to but it works.
WS, have you gone to Ukraine yet? If you can't afford to pick someone you think you might be interested in and hop on a plane and go see them for a few days, close your account and forget about it. You need to know what the country is like first hand, you need to see what people live like and what they culture is really like not what you read on this website. You need to spend some coin doing this, if you do not want to invest some significant dollars into travel and hotels you will never be able to find someone.
The posts I have read about people getting all wound up because they feel they paid too much for a taxi should of just stayed home also. A certain amount of this is part of the culture there. You have to be able to accept it to a point. But, if you ask the girl to help you to make sure you don't get ripped off they will almost always do exactly what you ask of them. You just need to be very direct about it. The cab fares will go down to what locals pay very quickly.
WS, in regards to your comments about my girlfriend, to each his own, I think you are in some fantasy world about what the vast majority of women in Ukraine are like.
Before you bash someone why don't you try raising a child on $300 a month and see if you won't take money talking to some idiot in his basement who will never come and see you anyway. You have no clue what life is like for these women. You want to get angry with someone, as I said get angry at at website and agency which are taking 90% of the money you are spending.
If you can not let someone's past be the past and accept they want to be a different person then yes, keep looking for that perfect person. Problem is if you find someone who is perfect are you going to live up to their expectations?
Yes she is extremely hot but I respected her, and the result is I am with her and all the losers who only could blurt out some comment about how much they wanted to be inside her or whatever are not. I commented on her absolutely stunning eyes, not on her ass or how I'd like to bang her or whatever.
You also don't get that women in Ukraine may dress very provocatively but they are not whores. Some are in fact whores but most are not. Treating them like they are will get you nowhere.
Most women in Ukraine are not going to spew their life history to you, it is not part of the culture. I don't ask Irina details anymore but when I have reached a new level in terms of gaining her trust she will spew out a lot of details about herself very quickly.
There are very few innocent women in Ukraine and probably less than 1% virgins over the age of 21. Not sure what you are expecting but as I said before if you can't afford to actually go over and meet these girls you will not have any idea what you are talking about.
There are many 'tools' that can be used to get more info on a particular women. Vk can be one but you need some correct info. Another is google image of a photo of girl, use one that 'looks' professional( none candid). Some girls also have facebook or odnoklassniki.ru but correct name is needed( might have to try different variations). Best is to have a person you know honest on ground to verify anything you have a question on with maybe a delivery of flowers for example. Of course, good to have some experience on making good choices of women, some here for what ever reason make bad choices......you can tell by their negativity.....oh well
I just picked a girl at random from Fiance.com recently added women, took me less than 2 minutes to find her on VK.
- Age was wrong on VK
- False birthday on VK but month matches
- She actually is honest on her fiance.com site and says she drinks socially and on vk she says very negative about smoking
- Has relationship status as single in VK
- Has some of her fiance.com pics on her VK profile (they love the way they look in these)
Might actually be legit profile, if she was a couple years older and I was not already with Irina I'd contact her for sure.
A lot of women lie about their age on VK, if you are going to hold that against them you will be looking for a long time.
Here is what the decent girls I know do with men who pester them in a sexual way: block them from communicating with them in the dating site, report them to the adminsitrators and tell them to leave them alone for good!
No need to scam them.
That all the genuine girls should be in VK or odnoklassniki is preposterous and you know it. This is like them saying that all honest Western men should be in Facebook and Twitter. Well, no girl will find me there. My facebook account is under a pseudonym, to protect myself from identity theft and fraud and I cannot be bothered with Twitter. So I must be a scammer too.