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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Back in Ukraine Author Post durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/26/2014 9:28:37 AM   After more than two years away, I am again at my first point of entry to the former Soviet lands. In a way, I must thank Herr Putler, because I don't know when I might have returned here, had it not been for his war against this country. And it is war, even though nobody finds it convenient to call it by name. When one country uses its armed forces to occupy part of the territory of another country, and to claim that land for itself, that is war. When a country sends its nationals into another country to occupy its government buildings and to make armed conflict against lawful authorities, even the victim country's own army, that is war. When that country smuggles fighters and arms across the frontier -- even tanks! -- that is war (this infiltration has been reported even in the past few days). As I arrived at passport control in Bory Spil airport, everything seemed quite normal and placid (including a long delay in opening a lane for holders of foreign passports ;) ). But I was conscious that I had arrived in a country whose territory is illegally occupied by the army of a cruel enemy. I probably crossed the Maidan about 200 times before my last departure in 2012. My first introduction to the transformed Maidan, on Tuesday evening, was at night. It seemed to have less lights than usual, perhaps to help the occupiers to sleep. Barriers of tires, concrete blocks, sandbags... Dozens of tents and other shelters... Stretches of pavement still denuded of their paving stones... Everywhere men clad in camouflage, many holding wooden sticks, baseball bats, or other crude weapons... Memorials to the dead murdered by snipers... An old Soviet-era armored personnel carrier with its nose facing onto Kreshchyatyk... Photos of those still missing (kidnapped by the Yanukovich regime, and surely lying dead in some Ukrainian forest)... Signs on the encampments, like "Maidan Self-Defence" or "Zaporozhye Hundred"... How somber and sorrowful it all felt. I had expected to take a photo of the burned Trade Unions building, only a stone's throw from my flat, but its exterior is now covered. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/26/2014 10:03:05 AM   My first destination was Odesa, where I had the privilege of buying a beer for a dear friend* of our forum :) And at last, I came for my first time to the Black Sea. I saw the Odesa Trade Unions Building, where about 40 died in a fire early in May. In a way, it is a "bookend" to Kyiv's Trade Unions Building: Ukrainian patriots died in the first fire, and separatists died in the second. In front of the Odesa building were many memorials to the fallen, and signs posted to express emotions and hopes. Naturally, the great majority were pro-separatist, and vehemently anti-Kyiv. But some were simply wishes for peace. The anniversary of the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union took place while I was in Odesa, and the city took the opportunity to place Ukrainian flags all along the street on which I stayed. It seems to be a widely held sentiment in Odesa that as tragic as the deaths in the fire were, the separatists "had it coming" to them. I doubt that more than a few percent in Odesa ever wished to become part of Russia. Even the people who despise Kyiv, also despise Putin. Of course, opinion is polarized about responsibility for the deaths, but most seem to believe that the fire deaths were an unintended consequence of the altercation between patriotic soccer fans and separatist protesters. The violence had begun many blocks away; I saw a photo of a young man who was shot down not far from the stadium, reportedly by an "avtomaticheskiy Kalashnikov," presumably NOT an item that came out from the soccer stadium. We heard that Odesa's police and firefighters stood idly by while the Trade Unions building burned. My traveling companion from Kyiv, an ardent Ukrainian patriot, made an unscientific survey of some of our taxi drivers. If I got the tally correctly, we had two plainly pro-Maidan, and two who were (approximately, at least) pro-Yanukovich. By the way, for those not familiar with the demographics, Odesa is estimated to be 95% Russian speaking, so if any regions of Ukraine were really majority "pro-Russian" (in fact, NO region is, not even Crimea), Odesa ought to be one of them. * To a certain American guy, in case he still reads the forum: if you don't travel out to meet her, you are an idiot. kiwinorth Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/26/2014 6:51:04 PM   thanks for that Durak,,, really interesting. its certainly not the Ukraine i met once upon a time.. yes no ones ideas of travel should change,, if anything travel should be stepped up there. dcguy Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/26/2014 7:13:27 PM   Hello New member to this forum. I recently restarted looking through the dating sites after first using them back in the 1990s. My prior relationship broke up a few years ago (through relative's friends matchmaking), so I guess I was just curious as to how the situation is now. I read through quite a few postings going back quite a few years on this forum with people supporting or denigrating one type of dating technique versus other types. All of them have their pros and cons. I have just begun corresponding with a few ladies, but of course a lot of them are fakes. Thanks for the postings about how it is like in the country right now for those who are there. I also just ordered a copy of the Russian Bride Guide. Sorry about hijacking the message topic. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/27/2014 7:23:26 AM   kiwi wrote, "if anything travel should be stepped up there" He's right about that! While in Odesa, we heard numerous comments about how unusually quiet it is for summer. Moya told me that normally, there would be long lines of towering cruise ships at the port (Sea Station, as a literal translation of the Russian name) -- so far, not one has appeared. This is especially sad for Odesa; the outbreak of violence there lasted roughly one hour, and was already 8 weeks ago, but foreign visitors seem now to be "scared off". On the other side of the coin, the good news is that tourism is reported to be practically dead in Crimea. Personally, I hope that Crimea resembles a desert with blowing tumbleweeds as long as the Russian criminals continue their occupation. Here in Kyiv, I don't seem to notice as many foreigners as usual -- certainly, it was easy to get my choice of apartment at a reasonable rate. In a way, it's a relief not to see Kreshchatyk Street strewn with foreign men making idiots of themselves with young Ukrainian girls -- but it probably makes my idiocy with a particular young Ukrainian girl more apparent. I've done most of my prowling at late hours. Two of my favorite cafes were dark, and looked as though they might have been abandoned. I don't know whether they shut down due to lack of travel to Kyiv, or simply cut back their hours -- they are close to Maidan, on streets whose traffic patterns have been disrupted by the encampments and barricades. PS You can buy toilet paper with Yanukovich's face on each sheet. moyarishka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/27/2014 4:10:49 PM   durak, it's not quiet this summer, maybe less foreign tourists, but more ukrainian, coz those who usualy go to Crimea went to Odessa instead :) PS he doesn't read the forum but i've sent him a link :) PPS they say if you went to Odessa and didn't buy a beer for Moyarishka you would have 7 years of bad luck :) lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/28/2014 10:59:52 AM   "PPS they say if you went to Odessa and didn't buy a beer for Moyarishka you would have 7 years of bad luck :)" And I have been to Odesa twice!!! And it all started about 7 years ago! My bad luck is Moya's fault!! Moya,,, go stand in the corner!! Juffles Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/28/2014 1:00:23 PM   Moya must be a Tsyganskaya-devushka. beemer18 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/28/2014 3:05:33 PM   "PPS they say if you went to Odessa and didn't buy a beer for Moyarishka you would have 7 years of bad luck :)" Well that explains it for you Lonely, visiting Odessa 2 times and not buying Moya a beer and according to my calculations, having already 7 years bad luck, you have another 7 years of bad luck coming!!! I, on the other hand, have 13 years of 'good luck' coming!!! Maybe I will get lucky soon!!!! ;-)) hehhhee beemer18 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/28/2014 3:15:46 PM   "By the way, for those not familiar with the demographics, Odesa is estimated to be 95% Russian speaking, so if any regions of Ukraine were really majority "pro-Russian" (in fact, NO region is, not even Crimea), Odesa ought to be one of them." Durak my friend, don't confuse 'Russian speakers' with 'Pro-Russian'. The sentiment in Odessa is more of a united Ukraine. Even the 'ex' considers herself Russian and would rather choose the old Soviet times because of the corruption in Kiev amongst the politicians. At same time does not want to be part of RF. lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/28/2014 4:21:41 PM   Beemer,,,, by my calculations,, I have 3 more years of bad luck, since my last visit was in 2010 No one has said how much beer it will take to lift the curse?? Cases,,,, cart loads, truck loads, etc! In ancient times,,, witches, sorcerers, and jinxes were burned at the stake or stoned?!! Maybe the next guy to visit Moya should give her some weed?!! beemer18 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/28/2014 4:52:04 PM   Maybe the next guy to visit Moya should give her some weed?!! Why......is it possible to drink...weed??? Lonely...remember you went TWICE to Odessa.....so it is 14 years total.....you said it started 7 years ago, yes? Juffles Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/28/2014 8:01:27 PM   Durak, now is an excellent, unforgettable time to travel in Ukraine - fewer foreigners, and experiencing a country in historical transition. I did this in several other Eastern European countries weeks before or after their revolutions or war, and loved it. Risky, but fascinating. It was six years since I last visited Ukraine, but unexpectedly may be going back in August, as a girl who I've never met before has just asked me to visit her in a town she stays at annually on the southern coast, almost on the Crimean border - where tourists don't visit. I'm not sure exactly what I will do yet as I am not deterred by the civil situation, but really don't care for the journey from Kiev to the east Crimean border, and she is reluctant to meet me somewhere else she doesn't know well (somewhere less remote and normal!) despite my attempts to persuade her. But I'm sure I will regret it if I don't go at all. Unless I'm being lured there as some sort of sacrifice for the pro-Russian militants... moyarishka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/29/2014 4:04:05 AM   It's not my fault lonely, it's your fault! If you're jumping under the train is it the driver's fault for hitting you? :) moyarishka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/29/2014 4:54:38 AM   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin_khuilo lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/29/2014 9:40:03 PM   “Why......is it possible to drink...weed???” I don’t know from experience,,, but I’ve heard that with good weed, anything is possible? I just thought Moya would prefer that to actual stones?!! Moya didn’t say anything about the term of the curse being compounded, but she probably will. Until then I have less than 3 years to go. Moya still hasn’t stated what it takes to lift the curse,,, if she doesn’t do it soon, I’ll put a curse on her, one where she must stand in the corner for an hour before each beer,,, otherwise the beer will turn to water!!! moyarishka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/29/2014 11:26:44 PM   lonely, you can't put a curse, you're not witch :P ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/30/2014 10:10:14 AM   How does one become a witch, moyarishka? Are you one? durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/30/2014 5:38:06 PM   @juffles: I've seen very little of Ukraine, because I spent so much time in Kyiv (due to personal connections here). I've long been curious to see Crimea -- by reputation, it's quite beautiful -- but I wouldn't go now, because I don't want to contribute my money to the Russian occupation. And if you want to enjoy the Black Sea coast, Odesa is great. However, I personally wouldn't be shy about visiting near the zone of Russian occupation. But probably, I wouldn't go farther east than Melitopol, wanting to stay well clear of the armed conflict zone. It is a good time to visit Ukraine -- the exchange rate is favorable to westerners, and prices in Hryvnia have stayed fairly steady. So an apartment that would have cost $100 last year runs about $70. As far as I can discover, there are no special safety concerns anywhere except the Donbass region. Juffles Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/30/2014 7:17:38 PM   Durak, I also wouldn't go to Crimea for similar reasons, particularly in empathy with the 12,000 Ukrainians who felt compelled to leave after Putin's land-grab. Regarding safety, the UK Government's current travel advice is not to travel at all to Crimea, the Donetsk oblast, and the Lugansk oblast. And to avoid the Kharkiv oblast. Any UK citizens currently in Crimea are advised to leave immediately. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/Ukraine I'm surprised prices in Hryvnia have not increased - to accommodate its lower value. Perhaps this only applies to imported items. And apartment rental prices never seem to get cheaper in my experience (from Internet sites) because they are always quoted in US $, even though the owners ask to be paid the equivalent in UAH. (I would appreciate any contacts or website links of centrally located, pleasant apartments in Odessa or Kiev. I had to stay at ~8 consecutive apartments in Odessa before I found a couple that felt like home, and not depressing. I then returned to them several times, but now they're not displayed, so maybe sold.) 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