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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > PRE-NUP Agreements Author Post GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 10:08:34 AM   I thought this topic was important enough to open a new thread I know it’s controversial as hell, but I see it as just one more cultural barrier for east/west couples seeking marriage to understand and overcome. TimH says, “Pre-Nups are Cold, hard, cash issues, Nothing more. The only thing they protect is the money and possessions of the person who wants the Pre-Nup !” I always say (and you've read it in other threads) "When in Rome, do as romans do..." Adapting to the western way of life is by far, again in my not so humble and pragmatic opinion, the biggest sacrifice any FSU woman will make, because it's something she will have to endure day and night, every hour of every day (unless she is asleep) until it's done to a level where she can comfortable feel happy and safe in her new environment. Not what she is leaving behind, including job, family and friends. If it may seem so at first, I am willing to bet she has not been properly prepared to deal with the cultural changes she's about to face. I have uprooted myself 4 times in the last 30 years. It does get easier after the first time, specially if there are no financial problems to worry about...but the first cultural shock is a bear to deal with. Learning the customs, traditions and details of every day life is what will require a gigantic effort on her part and devoted attention to support and encourage her by her new husband/man and extended family. The family and friends she leaves behind will always be in her life and she will maintain close contact with them in writing, by phone and by visiting them or being visited by them (if possible). She can even go back to them permanently if she wants. Now, this is the important that makes pre-nups a reasonable element of any new marriage, not just an east/west one.....Understanding the nature of the abusive anti-male legislation that regulates marriages in the western countries is one of the most sensitive topics an FSU woman should pay attention to. Men get fleeced on a daily basis because of these matriarchy fomented laws. And pre-nups agreements are the one and only defense western men have to protect what they have worked hard to achieve. And there is nothing wrong with wanting to keep what we worked for. If you’re happy spending your old age as a pensioner living off the meager monthly stipend the government gives you to ride into the sunset, by all means get married without a pre-nup and take your chances with your much younger wife who may or may not be deterred to act in the ‘western female way’ when she realizes she has the opportunity to do so. But in the west, because of the capitalistic system we chose to live in, quality of life is measured in a significant part by the level of comfort your working efforts have achieved to provide for your family, your loved ones and of course, yourself. A pre-nup in the west is an important Estate Planning document like a Will or a Living Trust. One of my pragmatic marital observations based on the two top reasons for marriage failure (Sex & Money) is that couples do not spend enough time learning, talking/listening and seeking advice to help them prevent the pitfalls those two things will throw at your marriage life, almost constantly…..Ohh, how I wish I had known my X would stop giving ME head after marriage, lol…or that after learning how marital laws work she’d constantly run up the credit card bills without a hitch or guilt, knowing the courts would dump the debts on the one who earns more money in complete disregard to who caused the debts…. In summary, my future wife is welcome to enjoy and share the safety, comfort, convenience and the financially stress-free environment that my hard earned money is capable of providing for both of us with the clear understanding that should she ever try to emulate the western women who constantly ruin men finances she will never be able to do so…. “It is better to prevent than to cure…” Some of my Mother’s wise words. Now let the gates open for those of you who have an opposing view to my way of thinking…....I do want to read your argument. But please spare me the accusations of selfishness for trying to protect my material achievements. I have children I support who have yet to go finish college, and elderly mother that I support 100%, several charities I help and a retirement fund to keep building that will hopefully outlive me. I am far from being Scrooge’s twin brother, either….I enjoy spending my money and helping my friends if and when in need, as well. Ptichka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 10:23:49 AM   GLTALLTOAD I understand my point of view, and I respect it as I do respect the point of view of any person. But my point of view is a contrary one. And as far as I found out on my sociology classes, when we all discussed this question (my group consisted of 24 girls and 5 boys), the reaction was almost the same. I will speak about myself, as I know my opinion better then of other's.:) For me the pre-nup agreement is a kind of a business treaty, like when buying a car, but in this situation, the man says: "I will marry you, but you have no right for what I earned, unless I give you something because of my good attitude towards you". Correct me if I got the idea in a wrong way. My friend in the USA has no her money at all, apart of those which her husband gives to her, she says that sometimes this situation is good for her, but sometimes it's a humiliating situation, when she has to ask the money to buy him a present for example. That's why she wanted to get a work, at least several hours per day, but to have an amount of money which she can spend the way she wants and don't give a report on every coin she spent... I guess that I lost the topic a little bit, sorry for that. But for me the question about money in the relations is something difficult sometimes not. I just know that sometimes people get quarreled for money. And if for example, the couple decides to divorce...will the husband make all that he can to leave his ex-wife with no money??? Or what he will do??? On my opinion that's not a good way to say good-bye....I would never get married with a man who would ask me to sign a pre-nup agreement, I would run away from him as far as I could, because that would mean that he is buying me...and I'm not a thing for sale. Ditto Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 10:57:39 AM   I guess I am somewhere in the middle. I too have a life to protect, not just for me, but for my son as well. We marry these beautiful women, hopefully with the understanding of the terms of the relationship. We get a beautiful woman, commited to family and traditional values. They get a shot at a better life for themselves and their children (if they have them). I speak from the US side of the pond and I realize that I am an average looking man who makes a decent living. With all her best intentions, she may be committed to loving me her entire life, but then she comes to the states and starts attracting a lot of attention from all the men who don't care if she's married or not. Suddenly she's like a kid in a candy store. Think of us at a social. There is always some guy out there who is better looking and makes more money. How well do you know her? (To tell the truth, this has nothing to do with being an FSU woman. It happens in the West too.) I favor a pre-nup, but I don't know that I will ask for one. It shows a lack of trust. I can understand one to protect a business with employees. Your risking their survival also. If I had to have one, it would contain a schedule. The longer you stay with me, the more you are entitled to and after a certain period (5 years?) you're 100% vested. So now that I've laid it out, it sounds like a business contract, not a marriage. If it were just me, I would decide to skip the pre-nup. With a son, I'm sitting on the fence. That's my 2 cents. Ladies, you get at least half. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 11:02:21 AM   Ditto, It is those who drive in the middle of the road that get run over or crashed by the 18 wheeler driving on the correct lane, lol.... Ptichka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 11:02:55 AM   Ditto as I said I respect all opinions, and it's good to see that you try to be objective, it's nice to speak with a person who at least tries to be objective, but it's a difficult task I know that:) But it's hard for me to believe that there is such an opinion that when a woman comes to the USA, she starts searching for new opportunity, not at once of course...but do you really believe that a woman who made a great amount of work to find the beloved man...would want to start it all over again???? Or maybe you believe that looking at another man, just for 5 seconds is a sign of her being not faithful and wanting to leave you??? I'm sorry but I'm confused a little bit, and I would like to get rid of this feeling:) GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 11:07:03 AM   Pitchka, what you describe about your friend sounds awful, and something that could have easily been prevented with a prenup. In my case, I want my future wife to work with me and learn my business. My prenup specifically describes what she will earn by doing so, which is generous and more than compatible with what she would earn elsewhere. I only ask that she keep 20% of what she earns with me in a savings account, the rest she's to do with as she wishes, as long as it is legal and does not make her fat...:))) Now, does that sound like something a woman with common sense would want to run away from? Ptichka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 11:11:16 AM   Yes at first it sounds great, but I didn't like what you told "In my case, I want my future wife to work with me and learn my business." and what if she doesn't want to work with you??? DIdn't you know about the theory that couples which work together divorce faster and more often then those who don't work together??? It's because they see each other at home, at work...and they get bored....and they have nothing to discuss about the work which they didn't discuss at the office...I would die at the situation....really GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 11:20:26 AM   Pitchka, If a woman does not want to learn and be part of the family business, she is not the type of woman for me.....her loss, not mine. That's for sure. You are incorrect in your statistical quotation. The cases of divorce due to infidelity is highest among people who work in separate places. At least it is in the US. other tidbits about USA divorce rates are: 1. California ranks highest among divorces of 1st marriages....65% 2. Nationwide, 2nd marriage fail at an astronomic +80% It sounds like marriage is the cause of all divorces, doesn't it? olegnay Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 11:23:06 AM   both opinions sound right:) Ptichka, as GLTALLTOAD said, you do not understand the importance of the pre-nap for the man, as you probably have not seen, and do not realize yet how well men are screwed in the west by their Xs after the divorce. so if I were a USA men with assets looking to marry Russian lady I would get her to do pre-nap. well, woman can protect her in the same pre-nap too, so if she is dumped then she gets something for living with man and servicing him that period of time:) Ptichka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 11:25:06 AM   OK OK as I have already stated I guess if there is no trust there is no relations or not future marriage for me...and if my boyfriend or a husband doesn't allow me to do what I feel I like or what I need to develop me like a personality...or if he doesn't trust me and keeps me all the time by his side...that's not the case for me... I assume that it's all because of the type of a person I'm, and the typ of character I have...but I do enjoy it:)) And at least it gives the opportunity to discuss things here:)))) I didn't have the statistics, it was just a theory:) GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 11:26:12 AM   "For me the pre-nup agreement is a kind of a business treaty, like when buying a car" Pitchka, you're absolutely correct...:))) In the west, marriage itself is the most important business contract you will ever enter. I'm not sure about the car analogy, although in the west many men and some women too trade in their old clanker cars and spouses for a newer, shinnier, sportier, faster and sexier model...depending on how much they can afford, of course..:)) Ptichka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 11:29:15 AM   olegnay yes I know that I don't realize what the situation there in the west is, but here it is not like that. here people hate courts and they want to set apart (if they do want that) proudly, saving their feeling of selfrespect...I don't want to say that people in the west don't have such feelings, no way. I think that there are good people there and here, and bad people there and here...I don't make such the difference....but at least here the wow with the word is a common thing, which me the person who works with document would have to dislike, but I like to wordy wow....and I don't need anything else if I trust that person, and if I love him...I don't need anything else...if he wants to set apart...and take everything...it's his right, he shows himself to be an idiot...and not me:) As I guess somewhere here I talked about the "Silly" pride...guess this is my feature of character too:) GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 11:32:43 AM   Pitchka, I will repeat it until you convert to 'pre-nup advocacy', lol... The lack of trust western men have is against the laws that allow women to abuse marriage, not agains the women men want to marry. Most western men want to provide well for their spouses and families. Most western men do not have a family business like I do, and most could not bring their wives to work with them. I like to take 4-5 days vacations every single month and if my wife worked for some other company, she could not come with me as easily as if she worked with me. "Couples who work and play together, stay together, Pitchka" GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 11:37:12 AM   Pitchka, Most people hate courts of any kind here as well, however, there is a "sue-happy" mentality, specially in California when it comes to 'divorce courts' among women who live here... There are things, like this pre nup, that are simply cultural and do not reflect on the individual feelings or commitment to a woman. Ptichka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 11:38:44 AM   GLTALLTOAD unfortunately we have contrary opinions on this question...and I can say that never will turn to an advocacy of any pre-nup....I was just thinking... try to imagine the situation, you're a girl from Russia, Ukraine (it doesn't matter), you meet a man, and you both fall in love...you decide to get married, and he asks you to come to his country and live with him...everything is great, but before the wedding, or after (I'm not sure of that moment) he asks you to sign a paper...and you sign it, and then it turns out that according to you, you have to work with him in the business that you either like or don't like (if you like it's great, but if it's something you don't like or don't understand, try to imagine what a hell would be for me a girl who is into the Arts to work with machines...or calculations...) And what else...it doesn't depend on your opinion as well when to take a vacation, it is when her husband decides to.....maybe I understood the situation in a wrong way, but that's what it seams to me... Ok I will leave now for about an hour to swim in the city swimming-pool, and when I'm back I will return back here and I hope that we will go on our discussion:) Ptichka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 11:39:44 AM   GLTALLTOAD you say "There are things, like this pre nup, that are simply cultural and do not reflect on the individual feelings or commitment to a woman"....try to prove that to a woman in love...and I would like to see if you will be a success in that:) Ditto Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 12:04:19 PM   Ptichka, I am not saying that she will start searching for a new opportunity right away. Temptation does not need to be sought. It presents itself. If she did this great amount of work to find her beloved, things should be fine. If she did this great amount of work for just a better life, there could be a problem. To improve her life even more will be even easier. There are no visa issues, not letters to write and no language barrier (making certain assumptions of time). It all comes down to- how well do you know this woman? The other side of the coin is- how well do you know this man? We all know what is in the letters, but until we meet face to face, the words are just that. Is he a potential wife beater? Is he secure financially? Is he really looking for a maid and/or sex slave (had to add that to spice things up)? No one truly knows. We take our best shot and live with the results. Don't risk more than you can afford to lose. I'm all out of pennies. Can someone loan me some. GLT, I'd rather die on the front of an 18-wheeler than in some hospital bed. But you're right about the fence. One of my ladies wrote, Who doesn't risk, doesn't get to drink champagne. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 12:09:24 PM   Ditto... gonna play the Eagles song 'desperado' just for you and your fences, lol... It is always better to burn than fade away, mate GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 12:25:38 PM   Pitchka, These topics of discussion are of most importance and should be presented long before anyone falls in love with the other person. Pitchka, you could not fall in love with a man who absolutely hates children in a million years if your goal is to marry a man to have a family, correct? The same goes for how finances will be managed during the marriage. What roles each spouse will have in the relatinship, how many children they want to have, when will they have them.... even to the smallest details like who will wash each other's underpants, take out the trash, pay the bills, change the diapers, shop for groceries, manage the family savings. You name it, the list is endless A prenup documents what two people agree to do and how each will be compensated or not if later on one of them changes his/her mind about taking out the trash, paying the bills or having children or keeping the other spouse sexually satisfied or getting fat beyond maternal recognition. Again, the list is endless.... Pitchka, you should not trust anyone who drops a prenup on you at the last minute. That is deceitful behavior. Are you changing your mind yet?..:)))) Ditto Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 5/13/2004 12:48:04 PM   GLT, I was hoping for the Eagles' One of These Nights. I've been searching for the daughter Of the devil himself I've been searching for an angel in white I've been waiting for a woman who's a little Of both And I can feel her but she's nowhere In sight Anyone seen her? Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > PRE-NUP Agreements
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