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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > How long before proposing and should you...?!?! Author Post QuietCharm Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/20/2004 2:01:04 PM   I am curious about people's views with regard to how long people wait before asking for an FSU lady's hand in marriage? One interpretor said 5 days was the shortest time she knew of between a meeting and a proposal. I was in the British Navy when I courted my American wife and in the space of a year, we only physically spent four weeks together before marrying. Both of us knew it was a risk to marry, without putting the hours in, but cupid's arrow had laid waste to reason. After countless phone calls and letters, we thought that we spoke as one, in every area of life. We could not bear to be separated by continents and within 6 months she was in the UK as my wife. I mention this because a week after her arrival we were in big trouble and we struggled for the following ten years. Many people here will have little choice, for a variety of reasons, but to dive in, fingers crossed. From some submissions I wonder if some of the men here are really ready for another stab at marriage? The jury is still out on me! :-( I have my own thoughts on this but wonder what others think? Is it ‘No risk, no champagne’ or are you all a more cautious lot than I? Do you have your criteria that have to be met or are you romantic souls who think the heart should lead the head? Are you full of “must have” and “mustn’t haves” for fear of history repeating itself? If so, do you feel that it is fair to inflict this on your new FSU wife? I wonder too, how long an FSU lady will be prepared to wait? Are their ‘norms’ any different to ours? QC Doug Salem Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/20/2004 2:35:12 PM   Hi QC, I think its different for every couple, but it's definitely a much different animal with Russian women, because of the huge distance, cultural, and language gaps. My own experience with Olga was: - Four months of correspondence through letters and email, - Then ten days together in Ukraine, - Then a forced two-week "cool-down" to think about it, - Then a "stage one" telephone proposal ("let's do a K-1 with the ultimate goal of getting married if all works out"), - Then six months of waiting and getting to know each other better through even more correspondence and phone calls, - Then the 70 of days shacking up together in the U.S. during the 90-day K-1 period, - Final, "stage two" in-person proposal (on day 70) - (Wedding in Las Vegas on Day 87, just three days before she turned into a pumpkin) About 6 months from first letter to pre-proposal; 14 months to final proposal. Or, About two weeks from first in-person meeting to pre-proposal; 9 months to final proposal. (Does that add up? I just kind of winged it.) Olga was willing to put up with all of these waits. I thnk, because it was a phased process with indications of forward progress and good faith all along the way. I realize conditions will be different for you because you are not a U.S. ciitizen and therefore will probably be using some vehicle other than the K-1 visa I mentioned. But hopefully this gives you some idea. Whatever you do, don't just fly over there and get married in the heatr of the moment. Use every mechanism available to you to streatch it out into a real courtship and discovery process, just like you would if you were considering marrying a local girl. Ptichka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/20/2004 3:53:13 PM   It was correctly said that it depends on a couple...they may decide to get married but then wait for that event for some years, because of some circumstances; they may get married in a week after meeting; get married after 3 months or 3 weeks (heard about that); it all depends! We can't say that on average people do so and so. In each case it is so different! Many couples don't think about marriage, but get married when the girl is pregnant. Some decide to get married only when the girl will be pregnant. Some decide to get married when they will be ready for hacving children. I think that the reasons and periods are countless! jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/20/2004 7:32:36 PM   I know that this is going to sound incredibly obvious - but it is amazing how much closer we have become since the decision to go ahead with the fiance visa. She still doen't believe it and refuses to acknowlwedge except as a whim that she will be coming to the US. She tells me that Russians have a different outlook on life. They don't expect good things to happen - so they will not be let down. I can't wait until we have some action from the government on it so that we can follow the progress together. Still find it funny - I told her today that I had a Chirstmas party to attend tomorrow. Its work related and quite likely that all will be on their best behavior. Yet she was so uneasy about me going. Was there going to be women there? Would I drink a lot? Would I ask her to come if she was here? This gorgeous woman thinks that I would step out ON HER? I could never find anyone as terrific as her in this country. Bagira Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/20/2004 7:54:06 PM   Some people just not suit to marriage at all. It does not matter how long they know there woman before serious steps. But if it is normal person and he has first good impression it is enough. Adjustment to each other as lovers is absolutely different, often opposite to adjustment to each other in marriage. Leaving together before marriage usually makes things harder and adjustment more difficult. So do not wait. Either damp her out or take serious steps. QuietCharm Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/21/2004 4:01:53 AM   Jet Everyone will be on their best behaviour at the office Christmas Party? :-O When did this start to happen???!! Bagira Not sure I agree. I used to hire and fire employees. They would present their best 'front' to me during the interview phase and for the first 6 months of their probation but usually could not conceal their true character for longer than that. My ex-wife was in public relations and marketing. She was the high priestess of presenting an image. Seeing someone's 'true colours' can take time. It is considered common sense to live together in the West before marriage so you can see whether you are a 'good fit' or not. I am interested to hear your views on "How living together before marriage makes things harder?" There are some relationships that work very well, when just living together , then, no sooner do a couple marry, than it all seems to fall apart. A different set of expectations arise. "Adjustment to each other as lovers is absolutely different, often opposite to adjustment to each other in marriage." I'm a little thick sometimes, Can you clarify this? jjbarrier Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/21/2004 6:38:25 AM   I am glad you brought this topic up, and noted with interest that you mentioned on one hand a period of intensive phone calls and letters that made you feel close and in sync and nevertheless ran into troubles within a short period of time. My philosophy thus far has been that writing letters and phonecalls is a good opportunity to get to know the other person better, and also explore one's one feelings towards her, without the hormones getting into the way too much. Your statement seems to cast doubt on that. Thunderdome Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/21/2004 11:26:35 AM   "She tells me that Russians have a different outlook on life. They don't expect good things to happen - so they will not be let down" She's not alone Jet, I've been told this also - and by a different woman I hasten to say, if anything she was a touch older ;-) Things just happen there, are not really planned in advance like we do here, because it's in some way regarded as bad luck. 'If it can go wrong it will' apparently sounds familiar there - maybe born out of superstition, or maybe they have a lot of Murphy's? Quiet, that line of yours may have something to do with security aspects (affecting both sexes), and/or some posessive feelings. After all, a marriage-cert is only a piece of paper, but some seem to consider it as a license to do things not done previously. Bagira Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/21/2004 12:04:08 PM   My point is: Absolutely no sex before marriage. Just read the wtrav02 poster. He started visited porno sites and was looking for exhort service just after proposal to a girl. I think it is a rather common behavior among the Western guys. There is a very faint difference between “visit for the occasional fuck”( wtrav02 words) and occasional visit fiancé sex relationships. I think very often girl attitude to guy as to future husband and guys are only checking and thinking (for me it equal to “visit for the occasional fuck”). And may be the difference is then guys do not afraid that she is a hooker and help with money to girl. OK. Let’s talk about normal people. We start to create our normal relationship in marriage after marriage. Not before it. Before it girl live after the constant presser that guys would go away if something would be a little wrong. It is she who is tested to be an ideal person. It is not equal relationships. Girl can overcome the memory about this bad time if a guy do understand that real adjustment starts after marriage, and is eager to have some efforts to create a real family. Or girl starts thinking that it would not be a disaster if he would go away. Relationships are equal in this situation but it is not love anymore. Things would be much worse than people live together for a long time. They were living as two separate people under one roof. And very often do continue to live as separate people after marriage. They do not have any desire to change anything. QuietCharm Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/21/2004 2:09:46 PM   Hi jj The actuality of living with someone who, let's face it, has a totally different background, culture, social position, work ethic, values, expectations, habits, etc, etc. is a challenge. It's pretty amazing that we manage it at all! The person I fell in love with, was not the person I came to know. I felt misled right from the start. Can you blame her? Not really. She was a romantic and dreamt of a rose-covered country cottage, in the English countryside. I was wounded and fell in love with my ‘nurse’. Our story was very romantic. Each of our stories is different. Both of us tried very hard over a long period of time and took a good look at ourselves, for which I am not ungrateful… nothing like struggle to help one ‘grow’… but the reality is, it is very difficult to change someone who deep down doesn't want to change and I knew I could not accept her for who she really was. Does that make me a saint, a sinner, or just honest? Maybe this is at the heart of the courtship. How honest are you being, with not only each other, but also yourself? Do you really know yourself? How distorted is your vision by ‘love’? Are you just in love with certain aspects of her and ignoring the rest? What are your particular criteria and are they valid? How many women have you met that meet all your criteria yet you felt nothing? So what does that say about your criteria? Are you meeting some need in each other, the two halves, making the whole? Will those needs sit happily together or will they become a constant source of tension? And what about all the unconscious stuff that is driving us? My own experience tells me… it doesn’t matter how much objectivity you apply, there are no guarantees. Which is why Bagira’s view may be just as valid as yours. jjbarrier Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/21/2004 11:16:30 PM   QC, you are right in that I know of people who had a very short courtship period and committed to each other, and it worked. In my first marriage it was about a year and a half, and we failed anyway. I think we have to take a very hard look at ourselves, and your questions are very valid ones. I don't believe that the key to a successful marriage is finding your one and only soulmate as opposed to being able and willing to compromise and work hard, and to remember to appreciate the other person. As far as you being misled, did she mislead you or did you want to be misled? And of course hindsight being 20/20 as we say in the US, back then presumably you didn't have the experience you have now, and probably also didn't know yourself as well as you do now. Ultimately you are right, there are no guarantees, and it's just a question of how much risk are we willing to take for whatever it is we are looking for. shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/21/2004 11:28:02 PM   JJ you make a great point that there is not the magical missing half but the one that with some compromise will work. Of course this is the true magical part finding two people that have that kind of give and take. Without it I believe all will fail. shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/21/2004 11:28:59 PM   Some one once said that true love is knowing everything there is to know about the woman next to you and you can still stand to be in the same room more than 15 minutes. Ditto Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/22/2004 10:10:15 AM   I have enjoyed this dialogue from afar and although it became somewhat philosophical, it nonetheless was helpful in sparking my thoughts. My son and I leave Dec 30 for Kiev to meet my lady and her son (first time for each child to meet the prospective parents). If things go well, we will get engaged and start the visa process (Dead man walking!) I intend to keep a detailed journal during the visa process and sharing them with anyone interested. I am going to ask her to do the same, so you can get her perspective. QuietCharm Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/22/2004 12:00:09 PM   Hi Ditto Definitely interested. Wish you all the best. :-))) QC jjbarrier Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/22/2004 12:30:58 PM   Good luck Ditto, I am hoping to be in the same position in the not too distant future, so I will also be paying close attention Frank Vans Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/22/2004 9:10:48 PM   I have a philosophy about successful long-term relationships. When two people fall in love and everything is great they are starting out without anything standing in the way of being close. As the relationship progresses, little things happen that leave one or both partners feeling hurt, angry or disappointed. When that happens, a brick gets laid between the couple. If one or both of the couple don’t act to move the brick with good communication and resolution of the issue that caused the brick to be laid in the first place, the brick becomes cemented in place. Over time, the bricks grow until a wall forms between the couple. Bricks can be removed if a partner recognizes the little “gifts” of kindness and caring behavior that are tendered. A gift like performing a task your partner usually does, an unexpected moment of telling them how important they are to you, a smile during tense moments, a hug when your feeling crabby, and accepting an apology (and meaning it) when your partner screws-up are some examples of gifts to send. If, however the receiver of those gifts does not recognize those gifts they are given the gifts do not get removed and perhaps instead another brick gets laid. So the point is, work very hard to keep the love alive, set aside pride, and instead be generous with your tenderness and kindness and you will be rewarded if the two of you are on the same playing field. “You take the love you make” or something like that. nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/22/2004 9:59:05 PM   Very Well Put Frank QuietCharm Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/23/2004 6:12:54 AM   Like it, Frank. I have the same philosophy but tend to use a river and dam analogy. By keeping awareness we can succeed. Not easy though. You only have to look at the number of bricks that are laid in this forum to realise that awareness of this simple principle is not universally applied. I would like to make my effort to remove the Empire State building that is the fiance forum, by showing… (sob!).. my love...(sniffle)…for you all. ;-))) IceChaos Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/23/2004 10:07:54 AM   The key to a long term relationship is to find someone that loves you more than you love them. Ice Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > How long before proposing and should you...?!?!
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