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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > The 400 Author Post izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 9:32:25 AM   I have a few questions. Toad as you processed through the over 400 women that you got to know how did you go through this process? What were the mechanics? How did you decide? As you came to the conclusion that a particular woman was not right for you how did you let her know? Or was it always necessary? Did it just burn our sometimes? How many finished with you first? Were the relationships ending and starting fast or did some last a very long time and then it ended? How many did you have on the go at any give average time? How long was your search in total start to finish? I have come to the conclusion that it is really not hard to go through so many women. I thought it was a lot to begin with because it sounds so impressive but now I have come to think about it and it is not unreasonable. I myself have been going through the Russian angle since September last year and I think I have now come into contact with one way or another about 75 to 100 beautiful women already. Here is the reason I ask this. I am a little confused. I am not a terribly cold calculating kind of guy. Everybody knows I am a joker and playful and I feel quite easily. I like people generally and therefore any one of these women quickly become very real people to me. Not just some electrons flying back and forth. Since I have ended with Marina I am now seriously in contact with at least 10 ladies. Yeah the NY one is gone I didn't like her but there are plenty of others. In fact regarding her I don't think I will ever approach another one that is actually in the States. You have to catch them fresh off the bannana boat before they become poisoned. You risk tarantula bites up the back of your neck but it is worth it. Back to the subject. I seem to attract these women like a magnet. I know some others here have problems but I don't. I have good pictures, a great profile, good opening approach and letter and I just don't seem able to screw up. ON THAT PART ONLY!! There is no doubt that after that I can become a complete putz and because of my good nature I am my own worst enemy. Look what happened with Marina. I went with my 'gut reaction' and 'people perceptiveness' and fell flat on my face. That is obviously not the way to do this. You see I am learning :)) Let me explain this further. I will focus on 2 as an example. There are 2 women I especially like. One in Moscow the other in Chelyabinsk. I really like these two women and it is definitely therapeutic in forgeting Marina. The one in Moscow is especially sitting up and paying attention. They both fit what I am looking for. If I continue talking to these 2 women and after 3,4,5,6 months I decide I want to visit one it will as far as I am concerned be something of a much deeper commitment. Deciding to go won't just 'happen' this time I am going to put a lot more thought into this. (hence this thread) It will be a freaking bitch telling these ladies that I have decided against them after so much effort has gone into it on both sides. You see I am not as fussy as some. So long as they are attractive and fit the criteria and most importantly they don't lie or are rude to me I like them. They're all OK!! That is the problem. I am going to get out of control very, very soon and will need a secretary !! I don't know that I have got my points across very well but I have tried. Hopefully Toad and you others will see through my foggy writing and give your opinion. It is difficult for me. And please remember I have only mentioned 2 there are many more and more each day. I literally can't keep up, well I can keep it up but... shoot I think you know what I mean damnit. I do like that doctor in Moscow though:)) Izi unclebuck Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 9:52:23 AM   IZI, What happened to Marina? I missed it somehow. izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 10:21:36 AM   UB Don't worry. I'll live. It is an amazing story and full of instruction but I prefer to look forward now not backwards so I would like to concentrate on the subject of this thread. Marina is gone and I hope she is feeling the pain and I think she is. I will explain all the details in a few days right now I am still smarting. Let me lick my wounds and get back to normal and then all will be revealed. Ditto Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 12:20:32 PM   Izi, I think your situation being from Miami area will work for women form Moscow, St Pete or Kiev. That should be one of your considerations. As far as one of your comments about getting the women before they’re poisoned, it doesn’t matter when you get them. If they’re the kind that can be poisoned, do you think it will matter when you get them? What do you think will happen to them after they arrive? This is part of assessing their character during the process. I think most of us will explain our reasons for our search in the FSU as one of different priorities. Ask yourself how central are those priorities to their belief system. If they aren’t central, they will change after arrival and you won’t have the same lady you set out to find in the first place. I think you should have higher criteria than attractive and nice. Many women will pass muster on that. Personally, I read the profiles and saw how much effort they put into describing themselves, their interests, and for whom they were looking. For me, a short profile meant a lack of effort and potentially seriousness. I know I wrote a long time before going to visit. This was due to finances and vacation schedule. If you are in a different position, where you have more opportunity to travel, God bless you. Do it. I wouldn’t be able to correspond more than 6 months without having some serious idea of the fit of the relationship. Nobody in my group lasted more than 5. Some only survived 2 letters. Help from this forum aided the process. Everybody is different though. Just remember that the longer you take to get there, the more likely she is to think that you’re not serious. Do you have a list of the personality traits of the person for whom you search? What about your own traits? I think it’s best to have them before you start the search, but I’m just one of those cold and calculating bastards. I think I still have copies of the letters I sent to the jilted ladies, but essentially it said that they were fine people, but I could not visit everyone, it was not proper to ask them to wait to see how my visit turned out with the person I did choose, and that I wish them well in their search. As soon as I knew they were no longer on the list, I let them know. No hemming and hawing. Be decisive. Be a man. Just what the worthwhile ladies are looking for. JMHO I was juggling writing to 13 ladies at one time and it drove me nuts. I couldn’t do it. It was just too time consuming. I couldn’t keep them straight in my head. It just wasn’t fair to them. If I had it to do over again, I would choose 2 or 3 and add one as I dropped one until I found THE one. Everybody has a different process. There have been a number of successful gentleman since I joined here, including me, and each one of us has gone about it differently. Choose one from Column A and one from Column B and figure it out for yourself. Tell me what your looking for. I now have a number of friends in Ukraine who are looking, but I get a finder’s fee. izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 12:59:51 PM   Ditto F---ing superb post just what I need. Much of what you have written is kind of on the burner already and some things I have gone through as well that you have experienced. I have a much clearer notion of what I am trying to do now and my opening post didn't even scratch the surface of all the angles thoughts and ideas I have about thiis stuff. I banged it out there to get started. I want to hear what everybody has to say I am all ears. Believe me I covered most everything with Marina and I just couldn't get around the fact that she was a nut. A very beautiful nut but still a nut. Obviously I am hardly a novice so I know how to let a girl down gently and what to look for but I feel I need to know more so I throw it open for others input. Each piece of advice helps me 1 step closer to my goal. Hopefully I can avoid any further heartbreaks. If I have to go 20 times I'll do it. If I need to write to 1,000 women then I am up for it. I won't give up but this is daunting. I was very comfortable with Marina. That was half the problem. The other half was I was dealing with very damaged goods. I am going to jump in here again later and respond to your post more fully because it raises many things that need to be discussed. It is important not just for me but I'll bet for many who are quietly reading this. We can use me as the whipping boy as I know somebody will decide this is some reason to go on the attack. Let us discuss this further. izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 1:04:11 PM   Just a quick post script before I run back to work. You all know I am a joker but this isn't a joke, this thread is deadly serious. And I am not doing a Geri, I really need help here and I want to hear from you. I am not doing a "discuss amongst yourselves" thing. This is quite genuine. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 1:14:24 PM   "...How long was your search in total start to finish?..." 8-15-03 to 11-30-04. 14.5 long months since my first profile went up on EastWestMatch and other places. Lena wrote me after reading one of them at the end of 8-03 when I was still a 'tender, innocent young' man of 47 and she was 25. I did not have then (8-03) the strict criteria you've seen me post several times. It developed during the search, in great part based on what I learnt and discussed in this forum. But it took me a long time to give Lena's interest in me the seriousness it deserved. At that time I treated our age difference with ten times the cynicism QC dishes out about it. Because she often asked me work related questions (translation), we developed a nice working friendship that eventually turned into what it is today. I was never burnt by scammers because I never sent money or gifts during the search process, but quite a few of them wasted a lot of my time leading me on with false pretenses. The often glorified and misleading Elena Petrova book and comments never quite convinced me. I also wasted quite a bit of time corresponding with women fully dependent on agencies and their translation services, that constantly badgered me to send 'my honey' flowers, perfume and gifts to win her heart...What a crock. EWM & Fiance make the bulk of the 400+ women I corresponded with. Generally I would wait till the 2nd or 3r letter exchange to ask for direct private way to communicate. when it didn't happen, I was off to the next one. Early last spring I made the decision to reject agency dependent women and about at the same time that I decided I'd only talk to women who could speak at least one of my four languages. I wish I'd done that earlier, it cleared the fog and confusion almost immediately. By then, the 'candy store ego boost' was getting old while my firendship with Lena was growing steadily, but still not seriously enough for me to give it more than a chance of becoming a potential holiday affair if we ever got together. toad unclebuck Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 3:29:37 PM   IZI, I looked for 2yrs and finally found my girl through a friend. She was vertualy in my back yard! Take your time, heal yourself, then take up the torch and let your light shine. Those that retreat into the darkness were not worth your time. If they can't stand the heat let them get out of the kitchen! ONEKINDMAN Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 5:52:26 PM   I would like to learn also. I know I have not even got my ears wet yet and I will admit That. But this is one of those topics that Interests me. Has anyone ever sent out feeler emails to any gals? Like we all or maybe all have a few or more email Addresses has anyone sent a gal or gals a letter from another email Address Pretending to be a guy say of wealth or for any circumstance? just to see if that is truly what she is after. Is it right or wrong to do when your investing your time and hard earned money and trying to protect yourself from disappointment? nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 7:25:55 PM   Izi I will throw a curve into this. This is diametrically opposed to what Toads approach was. Still what works for me may not work for someone else. Just another outlook.As for the language issue, I would toss that aside and keep your options open. Larissa's English was not very good in the beginning, but her ability to learn is incredible.Our communication in the beginning had it's moments but some things were said that words can never truly speak. Her english ability has improved exponentially in the last year. Also the agency dependency our esteemed friend likes to call it, may or may not be a legitmate statement. What is dependency, they don't speak the language or can't afford a computer or can't afford time at the internet cafe or do not have the skills or training to operate a computer. Agencies are like the girls here, some are good some are shit. What Lyudmila did as our translator in the beginning I cannot repay her for. I did buy her dinner my second trip to Ukraine.I was going to use her agency to do the Translations when Lyudmila said I would be foolish to do this because they were very expensive. $80.00 USD a month. I asked her why it was so high, she said We are a marriage agency, not a dating agency and we want to weed out the wannabe's and players right away. She said that Larissa talked only about me and she didn't want to use the agency anymore. When I requested her profile to be removed from their site they did it without hesitation, not only that they had it removed from Fiance.com and another site that they had forwarded it too. Her agency never asked me to buy flowers or gifts for her. Plus they only get paid a meager sum from Fiance to translate. Also before I hopped onto a plane and left, I had to be damned sure this is the one I wanted to go see. I received Larissa's first letter June 11th and I told her I was writing other women, but the end of August I was just writing her. I didn't want to waste my time writing 400 women, I do not need the practice. Plus at my age now, if I can't connect intellectually with a woman, I don't care how beautiful she is we aren't going anywhere.I don't need boredom thank you. Whether it was luck or "gut instinct" which I hope you don't dismiss, because many times my gut instinct saved my ass, though it is not perfect but pretty damned reliable, Larissa hit it out of the ballpark. So basically I threw the picture of Larissa out of my mind and focused on her intellect and mentality on issues in life. Each letter and phone call, she became more beautiful each day. Physically she is an extremely beautiful woman, but it's what is inside of her heart that sold me. So if you toss out women who in the beginning don't speak your language or are agency dependent you may be crossing out your soulmate. When I go back in July I am going to stop by her old agency and thank them for what they did for us. I don't think you will have to go 20 times to the FSU or write a thousand women. I think when you sit back and absorb many issues you've had you will weed out the wrong women.To me it has to be a balance between being pragmatic and letting your heart control some of the decision making. I speak more than one language and Larissa speaks three, but none in common until now, so if I let that be my criteria I would have missed out on the most incredible woman I have ever had the pleasure of being with and falling in love with and I only wrote about 70 girls. The nice thing is she is a speech therapist, now I have my personal Russian Language instructor, I just keep asking her, what do I get for good grades? Later Mike nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 7:40:09 PM   One I wouldn't advise sending those types of "feeler" letters out. First it is not honest and second it is not legitmate to a woman who may live in a lesser economic society than ours. When you make your contact with a certain woman, you will know whether she is hunting a wallet or looking for a partner in life. In all the time of writing Larissa was the only lady that didn't ask what my income was, never asked for assistance for anything. She started taking English lessons on her own with her own money, now I pay for them, as I pay for her driving lessons. Be straight up with them. They have an uncanny knack of knowing whether or not you are bullshitting them. I never really discussed my economic background with anyone of them. When that is brought up, it was see ya later! Be honest and it will pay great rewards to you. Later Mike izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 9:55:28 PM   hank you Nas that was helpful. I feel a lot better about my situation and I am going to explain what happened. Some folks don't know this saga so I will briefly fill it in chronologically. I bounced out of my first relationship end of October. Sent emails out to about 20 women on 9th November '04. Immediately got a reponse from Marina. She and another were the obnly 2 I was interested in. The other was all waiks on the beach and moonlight dinners. Marina was straight forward. Gut reaction. I went for her. 2nd email she was rude. I cleared that up thinking it was my fault. We start to get to know one another and slowly it got more intimate. I bought a ticket and in March I went to see her. In fact Toad and I met up in Frankfurt and traveled together. We arrived at E/burg and Lena was waiting. "Are you Steve" she said and then ran up the road waving. Marina was sitting in her car. Toad came out and received a big kiss and hug. I just stood there. Eventually this beautiful blonde woman came and let me peck her cheek. A brief hello to Toad and Lena and we were off. As soon as we walked in her apartment my thought was well I'm glad you didn't go to any trouble on my behalf. The girl was sullen and uncommunicative. I am not going to talk about the sexual angle because that is a whole other subject, again a surprise and I think inappropriate. We became close over the 2 weeks. We had discussed at length and very clearly twice the subject of another child. She completely agreed. Of course she said. Imaginr why syurprise when the subject came up on the first Friday and I suddenly received a blistering attack telling me it was a man's fantasy and that she didn't want another child really. I didn't know what I was doing. Yeah right. I stood for it in shock and later we went to a night club. Another stupid story that ended with me in a hospital the next day. Tuesday night the 2nd week when I thught all was well another blistering attack. A 'discussion' according to her. A pitbull experience for me. Very one sided and angry. The following day daughetr disappeared and we had a few days together and the I left. The last bit was very nice. We did becme quite close. I fell for her. She just melted me I lost my heart to her and she encouraged it and although she would not say the words it was very obvious. It was two way. I got back and immediately strtaed making plans to return. Then I realised it was me doing all the legwork. What about her making an effort. So I decided to wait for a couple of days to see what would happen. It took 4 days for her to write me and say where are you. I then wrote to her and decided to confront her with these various problems. They had to be solved because I was not comfortable with them. The I got a hysterical quasi angry letter. A whole bunch of tuff that I had gone over in some cases several times while there. She even asked me questions. The nature of the letter really pissed me off. I decided that overall I had made a mistake and I could not live with this woman even though she had completely taken my heart. The response was another hysteria with coldness added in and a certain calmness at the same time. Weird. I waited about 24 hours then I couldne;t take it anymore. This hurt so bad it is hard to discribe. So I told her to literally shut up and not to write to me until I was finished. I then went on a 4 day binge of letter writing. I wrote about Insurance to death, from qualifiacations to driving. It was a marathon. We straightened everything out and she loved all my ideas. Also that I had a distinct plan which accomodated her aclimatisation and school for the little girl. I had covered just about everything. So we continued. We were at tis point very much a couple. Lots of joking and romance and couldn't wait to see one another in July and it wa totaly understood by both parties that we would get engaged and eventually get married. Saturday 28th I went and bought an engagement ring. We spoke on the phone and kept getting cut of. Imagine my surprise late Monday night when I received an email from her that started:- "Hello Gerhard I think what now you already to leave from Belgium? Likely now you already at home? A thank that yesterday you to call to me. It was pleasant unexpectedness." A very 'intimate' email followed. They had obviously had a lot of sack time together and he had left back to Belgium. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then the email continued directly to me:_ "Good morning dearest Steve" .......... I immediately sent her a etter and told her to take a flying f... No more money and I was cancelling my ticket for July and forget getting engaged. A normal reaction right? Apparently not. She then wrote to me that this was all my fault! I had betrayed her! It was a test that she made up to see if I loved her. I think the logic went like this that if I had questioned her and not quit her I passed. If I dumped her I failed!! I failed. I was steaming mad. Also incredible hurt. I got little sleep and in the morning I called Toad. We talked for 2 hours. There was a flurry of emails on the Tuesday but I would not give in. I woulfdnot say I was wrong and tell her I forgave her for her stupid trick or 'check' as she put it. We have had no contact since and we will not. As I told her 1. I have no idea if this shitbag Gerhard is real or not. 2. If he isn't and you tested me who the hell do you think you are? Where does this end and what twisted logic governs this. At what point should I conclude you are a nut? That is what happened.I am free agin and I miss her very much but I cannot relent. This is stupid. Really really stupid. I have realated the highspots there are many other angle izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 10:08:54 PM   Now I look again but with much more control and a little less of the heart and a lot more mind. I like Toad's approach but cannot help but be mre emotional than him. More like Nas. I have learned a grat deal form this. I am going back to the beginning and resurecting my original goals and sticking with them. OI hav every easily found about 10 women so far. 4 I really like, really strong candidates. 1 in particular I especiallty like and yes Nas she has appaling English but I like her and I want to get to know her better. There is now way I am going to pass her over because of a language problem. She wants to try and improve her English and only today has aid that she is going to call me. Marina never called me except to dinner. With her I had to do all the running. Now I expect a little cooperation. Also this woman is not the prettiest but I like her she is charming and very sweet I don't care about the looks. The other I like is in Moscow and quite unlike any other woman I have ebver spoken to from that city. She is serious and very nice. I am getting to know her too. All these women I tell that I don't want a natural chld of my own I want to be a father to their child and also that I am writing to other women also. I haven'yt had a problem with any of them so far. Early days. OK guys that sucked telling all this. It fucking hurts and dragging it up just added salt to what was already a sore wound but there you have it. I love the raction of the NY Moscovite. When I finished with Marina the first time she entered the scene. I started up with her again after Marina II. She knew about Marina and told me back in April she thought she was crazy. I got a treat of a letter from her tonight saying that she thought we should get back to gether with my 'beloved' her words not mine. That I am supposed to wait a year before I look a again. GIVE ME A BREAK!! they are falling out of the trees folks! For those of you that like to tear and rip for the fun of it please I ask you let me be. I have had enough for one week, month year. Ok lets hear it !! nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 10:09:10 PM   Izi You're better off if she likes playing fucking mind games like that. That is the most incredible piece of bullshit I've ever read. Not cool, not funny considering your 5000 miles away and she has your heart. Believe this buddy, you're better off without her kind of crap. There are far more decent women out there. Sounds like the female version of Norman Bates! I hear Ukraine calling you Iz!!!!!!!!!!! izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 10:45:21 PM   Nas Thank you for understanding. I didn't want to share this on the forum for appearing foolish and sentimental. I just told Toad and someone else from here that I talk to off line. I am good natured generally, I love easily and am honest especially with ladies. It has been my down fall over the years. I am the proverbial good guy. The dick who always gets shit on. Not this time though. I have had it. Eventually I will talk about the rest of this for example the sexual angle because it really has a bearing. Remember the American who was 26 years older? That needs to be pulled out and examined also. Why do I write this? And all the stuff back in March/April? Frankly it is a cathartic and I also hope that this experience will help those who just start. My feeling is that just becasue they are Russian princesses it does not preclude them from the nuttiness we commonly call "the American Woman". Yes they are everywhere. Another thing if it walks and quacks like a duck it is a duck. If you get an impression from an email listen to that inner voice don't squash it. That comes from a life long crushing of your spirit by western women. You don't have to make excuses, you don't have to accept rudeness, if it seems like rudeness it probably is. Don't suck up to this 'cultural differences' crap. We are far more alike than you imagine. Same with language difficulties. It often is a smokescreen. I was far too accomodating and accepting. My advice DON'T DO IT. Fuck 'em. There are so many women out there it isn't hard to find another. I have been out of this crap for 1 week and I have 4 really nice women and another 10 in the background it isn't hard. Sorry to be such a dick but I am not taking prisoners right now. The one in New York after her arrogant overdue little epistle tonight I am just going to ignore. Keep tuned to this channel Iziz willbe hos old jokey self before you know it. Screwed if I am going to wait a year to find another lover. I will bounce right back fellahs. I have an Aeroflot plane ticket good till next April and I just need a direction to point it at. Moscow, Chelyabinsk? I'll figure it out. ONEKINDMAN Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2005 11:40:22 PM   Nothing Helps Heal wounds better than Talking with people who care. You did the right thing..... Lots of men would fell in the trap and got a leg taking off and still would of came back for more. You got all your Limbs and escaped with A wound. Now those cuts will need love and you know how that all works just as good as any...... When I would lay around after a breakup I would remember what my dad told me. Women are like Buses wait around and another one comes every 15 minutes. I know this is not so true but it always made me feel better:) I am heading to Moscow in July I really like this girl and so far she is everything I would want in a lady. English great and what I like She returns my emails asap and is into answering my questions. As far as feelers go with emails I could not do it. I don't blame anyone who has because of the time involved and investing in your future. I just like going with my gut. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/8/2005 2:16:36 AM   OK, There you have the whole Izi saga from the horse's mouth...;) Now how about a little love for poor Toad for playing the role of Dr. Ruth, Yoda and Dear Abby all in one at an unbgodly early morning hour (6:30 am), uh uh uh? After all, life is always about me, right?...:)) Seriously now, I'm going to repeat something Izi asked....Please don't kick him or anyone else when he's down or barely beginning to recover. He may look like easy pickings for anyone to tear him apart for getting himself in that mess, but he's twice the man any of us is for letting us take such a close look at how raw this shit can get us. toad spirittraveller Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/8/2005 2:59:12 AM   Man,that chick is BIPOLAR SHe needs the prozac plan. An expensive and painful lesson,my friend. I have noticed that you are rethinking your strategy. I have been really uncertain which way to go with this whole thing,and was feeling kind of directionless. From this forum I have decided against the major cities of the FSU. The stories I read,and my own experiences with big city girls tells me that most of them could not make it without their lipstick cases and a telephone. I often wonder how people would manage without so many materialistic needs. I am right there with Thoreau-keeping my body temp at 98.6, trying to live a deliberate existence,and feeling contempt for manipulative,condescending,selfish people. Anyway,I want my experience to be as foreign and un-westernlike as possible. Izi when you were describing all the effort involved on your part,it reminded me of myself,and how I would give everything-- and it reminded me that no matter how much you love-how hard you work to be pleasing,in every single case there is no guarantee that your love will be returned. Same with a job-same with a family member even. I am only into my own plan for about 3 months now,and I am chomping on the bit,but I know that I have to be more patient then normal,because I have also learned that many hundreds of letters and phone calls later-she can still disappear like a puff of smoke. Nada,like you never even existed in her mind,although she proclaimed eternal love. I have experienced it so many times-her letters become less frequent and smaller in body and content. She asks fewer questions,and answers fewer too. It is as you wrote,and it is the same for me-- UNACCEPTABLE! I know for a fact that when the woman who loves you all of a sudden flip-flops,and becomes icy,abusive,and just plain mean--there is almost certainly another man. I have also seen men do this too when they were feeling guilty about an affair. I had a woman for 6 years that acted like this,and then dished to me on the airplane when we were circling Sea-Tac International for landing. I thought they were going to throw me off the plane then and there. I feel like Nas too. I am not looking for Miss Ukraine,because nobody is really perfect. She can be Miss World,and when you get her blouse off,she has a large mole on her chest,or she is like my old Montana flame--waves at the cows ( howdy). I want the one who becomes more attractive over a period of time. I think part of societies problem is that we simply do not date anymore. There is no 1 year courtship,but I truly believe ( and more so every time I get burned ) there should be. I am restraining my urge to just haul ass to Almaty,because my only "check" is the test of time. It is difficult,because I have the means necessary. But I am very wary,and not lonely for women--only the one I perceive as wife material. One other thing women have taught me. If it does not work-do something a little different. It is up to you to change the pattern of the template that you use to configure the "one". If this does not happen,especially with a guy that is sensitive and easily loving,then we tend to keep finding the same woman in another body. Without change,everything has the tendency to remain the same. I remember reading one of your posts ( Izi) about untidyness in the home,and I immediately thought,my god,is my Laurel Ann living in Russia now? Then you wrote of her flippy floppy behavior ( I really call it flakiness ) And now you wrote of how you discussed having a kid,and how she discarded that dream too. It reminded me of Laurie saying to me,"Just because I loved you yesterday doesn`t mean I have to love you today". Then she loved me tomorrow --again! I loved her too much to say what I should have--"Do you need to change up your prozac for paxil?" I saved it all inside of my head until it blew out sideways. I took her finger and pulled my ring off of it,and threw it away,and told her she was a passive/aggressive cu**. Then I moved all my wordly belongings from our house and lived on the street for 2 months--drunk and crying,and seeing a psychotherapist for grief/loss/depression counseling,while she had the man who I found out about on the plane ( from our Cali vacation-3 weeks bought and paid for by me) talking shit and calling me "flower boy" because I gave so many to her. Never ever give away everything you own. You will give away your backup plan,your escape hatch,and your soul in the process ( you already lost your self-respect by this time,and most of your self-esteem too). And after Vampirella gets done with you,she`ll tell you that it was all your fault,and that she never really loved you-you balding,flaccid,retarded loser. She will make the word bitch seem like a child`s word,and your entire being will rock with the apprehension of losing yet again what you struggled so hard to keep. I am seeing a woman here in Phoenix. There were 2-but I am losing interest in purely sexual relations. I have told her everything,also that I am going to FSU,and that I am determined to follow through with one of the only damn things I have ever done just for me and my dream which has gone unrealized. But I am just a man,and one that does not like Mrs.Hand--and I will not deprive myself of women--although I make it painfully clear about my intentions to them. crashnsplash Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/8/2005 8:06:45 AM   Nas, its amazing how similar both our approaches were. Best of all it worked for me and I can see by what you say that both of you are going to be as happy as Natasha and I. Best of luck to both of you. =) BTW, I think I'm going to the Pepsi 400 with the little lady in tow lol. I'll let you know what happens! Terrible story Izi and I think you did the right thing. I'm sure it must be hard for you but I admire you for pressing on. I wouldnt count out big cities. The stereotyping people do here of women in big cities is bull****. There are good women everywhere. You just have to be lucky to find one right for you. The only way I wouldnt recoment a woman from the city is if you live in a small town or desolate area. If thats the case then forget about it. They are after all city girls... but theres nothing wrong with that! izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/8/2005 8:16:41 AM   You see!! I told you all this was an important thread. And it bloody well is. It isn't just me. Spirit and I are very similar in many ways. Must be the spiritual viewpint. Also this experience proves another very important life experience that you cannot judge a book by its cover. I never would have thought that Marina would have turned out that way and for some stupid reason she has partially convinced me that it was in some way my fault. She is beautiful but fatally flawed. Capable of love and wonderful sex but totally unstable. She even told me she was sorry and that she realized she could be a bitch. That was when I was there. If I had swallowed this it would have repaired - guaranteed. Like as not there was no Gerhard. She chose that name because he is the German chancellor or something. It was random. Probably she really was 'checking'. However if I had given in what was next? Imagine the money involved to keep visiting her and bring her back to Florida the effort involved!! Secondly it is the same with Toad. He can be abrasive and opinionated but before anyone here condemns him remember that this is an online chat room on the internet. He is not what he seems here. He is far more multi dimensional than seen in this forum. I appreciate his help and he acted not as a vague online acquaintence but a friend. Something a little rare these days. He didn't have to do that. He immediately knew I was distressed. Not curious or just wanting to chat. No - He said I know something bad happened because you don't realise what the time is do you. He was absolutely right. Imcreasingly I find that my real friends are spread all over America and even all over the world. You hear that NOR? Spirit I have indeed changed my tactics but it is hard because I am easily won over. I have 4 right now that I really like. A fifth who I met online wrote to me and is a very funny lady. As repeated from another post today by me. There is zero danger of all this ending I see absolutely zero evidence of it. It is expanding. I have absolutely no trouble attracting gobs of women. Marina is the problem. Incidentally the first thing out of Toad's mouth was that she was BIPOLAR. I don't know what that means but it doesn't sound good and that is 2 unrealated opinions on that. Maybe it is true. So Mr Newbie, It always raises a question mark now. Always, always, always ask yourself if she is a nut. It is very valid and be honest with yourselves. I fell in love with a beautiful, often childlike, often too worldly wise Russian woman. She was incapable of trusting and reciprocating properly. It isn't my fault. Why she was out there I have no idea. Why I ended up with her I have no idea. All I know is that there are millions of beautiful, family minded, loving Russian women and I will find one. She will be all that I want and more. Right Nas, Trad, Ditto and all you others. I am going to let you se this letter from the NY moscow woman and you will se another side. i.e. let us stand by our Russian comradette evenif she is mental. Also singing the praises of her homeland. "Why fdon't you go and live there". Another real winner. This also proves something. Just because a person has a bunch of education it doesn't make them smart. They can be as dumb as a sack of rocks. It is just a piece of paper and means absolutely nothing. No wonder employers rarely ask you to actually produce the paperwork !! Upwards and onwards - happy times ahead. Thank you everyone for your long, time-consuming posts and sensitive opinions and inputs. The stuff being discussed in this thread is vital I think. Maybe it will help someone else avoid trouble. 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