ear friends,
I really appreciate your search for truth, goodness gracious:-)...ok
Just a simple comment regarding us, Russians and the way you treat us in the internet...only
dont flush it
when you finish reading, pleassssssssse:-)
Just a simple comment regarding scammers.
See, I am a decent simple-hearted Russian girl, Oksana is my name.
I am a modest teacher of English but due to Russian economy I have to have a bunch
of not so very well payed part-time jobs, including teaching, interpreting, pcycology.
Of course I am not satisfied with Russian reality and of course I want to relocate..but
not for the sake of relocating ONLY, I want this step to be based on mutual attraction,
love e.t.c...well, hopefully you understand me. So me not being a mercenary girl, I cant
figure out: where do you see this scammers success? I think these are more exaggerated
stories of men. Let me reveal you one simple and, alas, as it seems to me, eternal truth:
men from abroad are unbelievably GREEDY and they NEVER ever trust...even if you dont ask
them for anything at all (my case: I try to be always responsible and decent and neutral
in my letters)..but the undeniable fact based on my personal experience is that during
2 years (!) of me sincerely and ardently trying to find a husband, by means of writing
super-numerous letters (making all of them PERSONAL), putting my HEART into
relationship....me, the girl, who knows English much better than the vast majority of
these Russian dolls:-)...me, who is really GENUINE in my intention to find LOVE....I have
NEVER been presented even a single FLOWER or a mere post-card for my birthday, not talking
of New Year, good old Valentine e.t.c........
So, dear friends, my question is: where do you find these victims of the horrible Russian
scammers. I have never seen any...though maybe its because I never tried and will never
try to ask for a simple jesture of attention.......but I think that no matter whether
you ask or not ask you will still be left without flowers, believe my big experience!
Russian men are different. Its a pity the country is rolling down to alcohol and drugs...
Otherwise I would stay here.
But on the other hand I see hardly anything to do with the generosity of the HEART
(not wallet...wallet is only the reflection of this trait, if you want) on the behalf
of your dear Western male-idividuals...but I dont give up! I still hope to find a simple normal
guy who would not hesitate to send me a candy at least once a year - for my birthday...or...
maybe a crumb of bread..just kidding:-) But, honestly speaking, believe me, I never beg for
alms...and
the conclusion is that whatever happens I would rather die than ask for anything.
Though the foreign men would not display any generosity in 99 percents out of 100 cases...
trust my grave statistics! So I guess I am doomed to always get letters from men about
mistrust, scammers, e.t.c.....based on NOTHING in my personal case.
So, dear friends, my hope to find a normal simple-hearted not sceptical guy is almost at zero.
I wrote feedback letters during my free time, and I hardly have mental or moral energy
to prove to every single guy that I am me and not a con, and that black is not white...see
what you are doing?
But no problem, I will continue to loose my eye sight writing constant
self-justifications, that humiliate both me and..my nation.
Please tell me what should I do if I am from Russia...should I pray to God that people trust
me..because actions that speak louder than words do nothing?
You are treating women with equality over there, as I see........
WEll, I dont know what else to say...but my soul is still in agony and it
needs expression.
Once again thank you concerning your sense of justice. Its already so
natural to be insulted by foreign men..it does not astonish me
already..though..
Nobody paid money for ANYTHING in my life. I always worked HARD. But I guess that when a
person trusts some weird girl who does not deserve any trust because she
speaks hardly a word of English and asks for Kingdom in return, well its easy to despise me
who actually is real and has a bit more brains/pictures to reason with - in addition..which
actually should be regarded as a BONUS by any sainly-thinking individual..but no!
Mistrust only enhances owing to these "good" scores and factores!
I call it a N-A-T-U-R-A-L Murphy law:-).
Never mind, if you dont believe, let it be a big compliment for me as for a normal nice girl,
so I am touched I guess.
I have no scars on my biography, and its ME, come and see. I
need nothing from men, no money, no gifts. Nothing. Just wanted to talk and
be friends. But first - I wanted somebody to start believing me - at
least a little..to begin with, you know:-).
I feel that nobody is any different, so I decided to just be philosophic and not
take it so close to my heart..otherwise MY heart will stop..its not
made of iron..and two years of constant insults of Westerners actually had
their impact on my health and moral condition.
And this heart of mine has had enough of negativity of mens suspicions
during all this time.
Too much for my age, decency, vulnerability and sense of justice.
Sorry, but this is my sincere outlook on the matter.
NOTHING TO HIDE FROM SOCIETY!....and you guys:-)
Morally exhausted, physically tired, but not giving up:-),
continuously non-mercenary Oksana.. - whose decency you all continuously dare to doubt
even in the cases when you have known her for a long time during which any self-respecting lier
would have
dropped the relationship at a much earlier stage. But I am still talki
Oksana,
The majority of men, by nationality trait, will regard a Russian spouse as a 'fashion accessory', to brag to their friends 'hey, I've got a Russian gal', this comes across, time and time again, by many individuals on this, and other, websites.
Unfortunately, many an FSU lady, not all, will play along with the label of 'fashion accessory' thus any genuine lady, which you appear to be, should learn by the way he talks to you and treats you and don't measure his suitability by the gifts he may buy you.
Unfortunatelt the internet based dating is partly like the real life dating. There are nice guys and there are less nice guys (read; assholes). I am sorry to hear that you so far only met the last kind of men. I am sure there are still some nice guys out there, correction, I know there are some nice guys out there. Some of them are really the best kind of men you could ever want, and I am not talking about myself this time ;))
But this scammer story is something most of the men come across during their search, unfortunately, and I huess that is why so many men are so sceptical. You know Oksana, the guys that are serious and mean what they said, would go and visit you after a short while of writing. There are just too many talkers, and unfortunatley less of the walkers out there. It is just like a night in the nightclub or so.. You find the same people there, they present themselves as managers and models or whatever, and the day after you find them working in the local gas-station...
What to do?? I think ask them straight out if they are talkers or walkers!! If they haven't ordered their tickets after some reasonable time of writing, tell them "Nice to know you, but sorry, my plans have changed, bye!". Icecold maybe, but why waste time on people that only talk? Action is what counts not words... I don't feel loved because someone tell me they love me, I feel love when someone show me the person love me!! Action!!!
Guys, let me quote Martin_M ; "DON'T HIDE BEHIND THAT KEYBOARD, GET YOUR ASS ON THAT PLANE"
Oksana, as far as my relationship with my lady, very few people know of it except my close friends and my daughter. Actually I think men that are looking for fashion accesories as Martin put it are scamming themselves.
As for getting scammed there are scammers on both sides of the fence. The men that get scammed are lawful prey to their own stupidity.
Nor to put it in a different light, I started writing Larissa in June of 2004, I did not make my first trip to see her until November of 2004, now I have been there three times to see her. Now we're are waiting on her interview in Kiev in which I will make my fourth trip in a little over a year. Nothing works exactly the same for everybody. Though I do agree with get on the plane and visit if it is real. Timelines work different for different people. For me this was a one time deal. I was going to make damned sure when I went to see a lady, it was one that had the same ideals, feelings and attitudes toward life that was close to mine. Not exactly like, but as close as possible. So for me it was patience and a little bit of luck that worked for me.
You went there after 5 months, that is within a reasonable time I guess. I have heard about people writing for a year and also two years, and still they haven't met in person... Time is different for different people. I am the patient kind of guy, some are more hasty. A month for me is soon, a month for a hasty person is sooo long... they haven't time to wait that long... We experience time in a different light, all of us.. and also it depends on what we are waiting for of course.. Try waiting for someone at the airport... Is it possible for minutes to go slower than they do there???
But to get back to the subject and Oksanas post, I don't think the majority of men find a russian woman to have her as a symbol or a "fashion accessory". I can get these women here as well, my ex was a former miss nordic face... But of course Martin can be right, I don't know all people searching for a russian wife. But I think we all have different need and different wishes. A beautiful look is not enough for me, there has to be something else, and I think the most important thing for me is chemistry! There is no wrong or right, we are just different...
Oksana
I have written to you privately to express my sympathies and thoughts on your post.
Mike,
I think you did have good luck but it is not unique. I know other men that have had a similar experience and let's face it it wasn't all bad with Marina.
NOR
I now don't believe there should be ANY timeline. Zero wait time.
I think it is extremely important to come to places like this forum and not just read and learn but make an effort to get to know the men here.
We need to vicariously learn by watching, talking and most importantly listening to what our peers are going through.
I think that we should get to know where the good agencies are. This is done by experience and then recomendation. One guy telling another guy.
My idea is that you then decide on a city based on this information. Not just blindly dip into the database and flail around like I did when I finally started writing. You end up with 2 problems. Firstly you finish 'committing' to one woman and you throw your efforts into that arena as I did with Marina. Then time goes by and you do go as Nas, and so many others do. For Nas it was 6 months for me it was 4. Then maybe it didn't work and all that effort is wasted.
Yes, yes, yes I know. You gained experience. BUT what is better to gain experience through pooled knowledge or wasted time and money?
The second problem is geography. If you decide to go with the multiple woman approach and the flailing has taken place it is going to be awfully hard to go to Moscow, Kiev, Mariupol AND Novorogod all in one go!!
Jetson told me about his personal experience in Kherson. He recommended an agency. I wrote. I liked what I saw. Nas and Maxi favor looking for a woman nearer to their own age. I gave it a whirl. I think they are right. So I changed my whole thinking and search paterns. MUCH BETTER.
Now I want to show off and thoroughly endorse what Nas says.
Besides whatever the agency does I took the bull by the horns and wrote to ladies from Kherson. I ended up with a nice woman called Tanya who is 40 and fits the bill. Also one of 38 and another of 39.
Not much I thought !! So I went back into the search engine and removed all parameters and looked at all of them.
Bingo. I found a lady who is 43 and stunning. I wrote to her and she is delighted to meet me. Doesn't care I go to see multiple women. Gave me a phone number of her friend that seaks fluent English so I could get her email address. We hooked up. She sent me a long letter (unlike all the others) telling me about herself with a great attitude.
The final kicker is that she sent me 3 more pictures of herself. Oh MY God!!!!!!! She is absolutely gorgeous, another 11 just like Marina. Interstingly enough these pictures are not professional shots either. They are in a sexy little dress that I would lay money she made herself. She is in a scruffy park and obviously a girlfriend took them. Sooooo the moral of this story is as Nas said somewhere else recently there are women out there in their 40's that are INCREDIBLE!! I cannot wait to meet this woman.
If this works with any of the women I have personally contacted it will be another resounding endorsement of the sensible age thing. Meanwhile we wait to see. I fly 3rd September and I cannot wait !!
Jetson where are you buddy?
I want to appologize for your unfortunate expearence.
We don't think that all people are scammers. The problem is that as much as we would like to deni it we are products of our system. Here in the west so many women live by the basic idea of "what's in it for ME" and that has clored our perspective. So when we approach the dating game we have our walls up. Some of us if not all have had some bad expearences. Add in the attitudes of regional areas and cultural misguidences we have a tendency to be less than who we realy are.
The advantages you will find useing the web to find your true "Beloved" are many and the big one is that when you find someone who will come to you he will be the one for you.
Nasfan,
All nationalities have different ideas, ways, of what a spouse is for and how she should be spoken to and regarded. I'm not about to get into a nationality 'slanging match' but, as an instance, many FSU ladies search for foreign men and one big reason is because of the FSU man, there's an example for you.
Just read through the websites and there is, in particular, one nation that repeatedly slanders their own women whereas, in the main, Europeans will refrain from such racist remarks.
My wife works for a dating agency, she translates the letters, she does face to face interpreting, she sees it all, I've seen it all also, different nationalities have different traits.
Thank you all so much for your kind input,it is most welcome and restores some faith that I thought I had lost.
I think the most difficult part of looking for any relationship,especially using the internet can leave so many questions.Trust is so important,and I am grateful that people here have taken time to explain that to me.
Oksana,
Letters can be meaningless, obviously it is not so easy for you to travel so the onus is on the man to travel.
Find yourself a guy who is prepared to pick up the telephone to call you and who is prepared to travel to you within 2 to 3 months, he will have already started to make confirmed arrangements by around 6 weeks to achieve this.
In each of your early letters always try to ask of him 2 questions, about anything, just to establish if he is reading, and answering to, YOUR letters or if he is merely clicking the 'send' button multiple time whilst looking at ladies pictures. If he answers less than 75% of your questions then dump him!
If he is coming to you then make arrangements to meet him at, and see him off from, the airport, this will deter any multiple daters or sex tourists.
My wife works for a dating agency and I talk to the ladies of the agency. You wouldn't believe the excuses guys come up with why they cannot phone or travel etc. One British guy who did nothing but brag about his money and assets in his letters subsequently made excuses that to telephone would be too expensive for him. That was to Ukraine whereas it costs 18/19 cents per minute to call from UK, to Russia, from UK, it costs one dollar for one hour, all they have to do is call via www.telediscount.com but some guys will remain planted behind their keyboards where it costs nothing to 'tease' ladies.
Thank you again Martin,it is nice that you can share some thoughts,although I do have a little experience...:).I have been told by some men that to call is very expensive,and I must say I was a little confused by that.But it is good to know that my thoughts were correct!
There seem to be many kind and open people here,and I can only wish that that the next person who writes letters to me will read some of these words.Happiness is all I seek but I did not think it would be so difficult.
Oksana,
The price of a phone call if a very small price to pay for happiness. Does the guy want to be happy or is he merely wasting your, and his, time?
During my relationship I telephoned her perhaps twice weekly, 5 dollars a week, well all I can say that is there are some very sad male species out there, I'll refrain from calling the such 'men'.
I understand what you mean, it is a little different here, we call it cultural, because here we have many different nationalities. Some men change from their cultural past. Mine being Irish, I do not act as the stereotyped Irishman. No nationality or culture has the market cornered on being an asshole. It's up to the individual here. In their country it may be different.
As phone calls go, I call Larissa every day, on my lunch hour during the work week and for a couple of hours each day on Saturday and Sunday. I spend about 40 dollars a week, no big deal, I don't go out for lunch anymore which can cost up to 8 bucks a day depending on where you go.
I have said before there are scammers on both sides, and I detest the men that waste these girls time and hearts. After meeting and talking with some girls at Larissa's agency, you would be surprised how many men promise to come and never show up. The percentage is very high. Also the agency is a problem also. They told Larissa to write back other men, because I wasn't going to show up. Now that's a bunch of crap, well it's about the buck and volume and no one will convince me otherwise. Also translators do not always translate what you write. Especially if it is not in the agencies best interest. The nice thing about the computer, I copied and saved every letter I wrote to Larissa. You will not be surprised of how many things are omitted in the translation.
My wife translates letters between men/women/men. I find it hard to understand, and this is true, some of the ladies simply can't be bothered to reply to the guy, too lazy to go to the office, and ask my wife to write on their behalf.
Good on you for Posting this. Not the norm on here – but I nice change – albeit at the expense of some bad “abroad dating” experiences on your behalf.
If I could be so cheeky to ask – what is your age (approximate) and location ??
The reason I ask is probably obvious to you. You see when men start this “internet FSU dating” (myself included) fell into the trap – or should I say enticement, of the “young & beautiful” After a failure or finally reality jumps up and bites us – we then readjust our approach & requirements. Our goals and motivation do a complete turn turtle – so too speak !!!!
There is something with life – or more specific – partners in life that is totally reliable. That is - if two people can get together (hook up) in person the faithful old cliché kicks in – “” familiarity breeds content””
As one chap pointed out on here recently, 80% of women on these sites are in the 18 – 29 age bracket. And of course – most men are considerably older than that. Reason – all our young boys are happy sowing their “Wild Oats” all over town at that “comparable” age.
Bid age differences do work out occasionally. But I have heard from my Kiev Fiancée and her friends, that most never last long. In fact there was only 1 that was still mutual – and it appeared to be a partnership of convenience because they had set up a Kiev – USA business together.
Anyway – I digress – so keep looking – you definably seem too have all the qualities of a good and loving partner. Also your goals and motivation are 100% stable and pointing in the right direction.
My suggestion to you is to stay away from the larger Dating Sites and try and get my individual on some of the smaller and possibly local based sites. I mean local to your immediate locality.
A big welcome to the forum and many thanks for your thought-provoking post. It seems to have had a civilizing influence on the members! ;-)))
There are many types of men seeking FSU ladies. Their motivations are different and you are more than aware that some are very suspect. I have no doubt some members will line up to demonstrate to you, they are different to the rest. You would be well advised to browse some of the previous posts.
Trust is critical to any relationship, not just between western men and FSU women.
I have written to several ladies and found that nothing can substitute for a physical meeting and would recommend to any seekers here, to go to the FSU asap and not waste time in this talking shop. Too many act as if they have all the answers and in the fullness of time, it has been shown they do not. Advice on practical aspects is helpful (Izi) but relationship advice should not be taken too much to heart. Each of us should make our own decisions based on what we actually find and not on someone else's experience. NO amount of preparation, 10-point lists or wild assumptions can substitute for the reality of face-to-face meetings. Life is not so accommodating.
Oksana. You have invested much time in your search, as have many here. History shows that rushing into a relationship carries much risk. For those, (including the ladies), who can give time to their search, the chances of success, although not guaranteed, are more likely. Rushing this process, because it costs too much or 'We are in love' (after 2 weeks) or can only take a fortnight off work is not a good idea. Marriage is what happens AFTER the rosy glow of romantic love has faded. Romantic love lasts between 6 and 30 months. If you still 'love' each other after this time, then you are in with a chance. The mistake that many men (who tend to love with their eyes first) make, is to fall in love with one aspect of a person.. beauty, accent, youth, passion and so on... only to discover that the rest of the 'package' is not quite so appealing. If you can, give it time, you increase the odds of success. If you can't, then go ahead but do so with your eyes open.
Your experience I would have thought is very common. The amount of selfish time-wasting by some men is a disgrace. Genuine ladies invest much time and effort in responding to emails only to discover the man was never serious in the first place. It shows a complete lack of respect for women who incur expense, time, hope and ultimately humiliation in responding. I hope it improves for you and yes, there are some genuine men out there just as there are genuine women. The trick is sifting the wheat from the chaff. Practice makes perfect! ;-)))
Calling to Russia from the UK costs me 2 (!!!!!!!) penny per minute + 1p/m for BT line on weekends and a bit more on weekdays. Just to let you know. Please accept my sympathy for your bad experience. I know what you mean.