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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Me against the scammers of email forwarding Author Post Deanis1010 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/9/2005 2:36:31 AM   Hello gentleman…. and ladies for that matter. First I want to tell you that I am a man of experience when it comes to searching for my future wife in the FSU. So, I know all about the risk of email forwarding. I’m also known throughout this forum as Deanis. I have been a member of this forum for a long time. I have traveled to Russia 4 times and Ukraine 7 times. My search began in August of 2000. I spent my entire summer of 2004 in Ukraine. I am now a level 5 out of 10 in reading, speaking, and understanding the Russian language. I have true friends (Interpreters) who live in Moscow, Kiev, and Kharkov. With them, combined with my knowledge and experience I decided to try an experiment with email forwarding. After my experience with Anastasia Web a couple of years ago I swore to myself I would never use it again. But back in May of this year a good friend of mine recommended Cindy Agency. Not only are they the best price on the net for email forwarding, their girls are real. I met many of them in person. But that’s another topic. For the past couple of years my method of choice has been to skip the letter introductions either by post or email and just get on the plane and go there. I usually come with a folder of printed profiles of ladies I am interested in meeting along with the names of the agency they belong. I show up at their door step with my interpreter and pay for the introduction date and away we go. I also used my interpreter to help me meet ladies by chance. In the café, on the street, and in the discos. I have met many wonderful girls using all these methods. Now let’s get back to the main topic. Email forwarding. I decided to try it again knowing full well that I would probably be wasting my time and money but I have plenty of both. Let the game of chess begin. Deanis1010 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/9/2005 2:37:13 AM   Here was my plan. I chose two agencies. A known black list agency called Amazing-women.com and a known reputable agency known as “A Foreign Affair”. I was careful to read the fine print of each site as well as contact them via email to be sure the ladies were allowed to give their telephone numbers out to the client. I was assured by both agencies they were. I then chose two ladies from each site. All four were from Ukraine. Once I made contact with them (I got replies from all four) I would then send them the second letter asking for their mobile or home telephone numbers. The plan was once they gave me their phone number (I assumed they would) I could then have my interpreters contact them on my behalf and interview them. My interpreter was also instructed to try to convince the girl to set up a private email if they did not already have one and set up correspondence through her. I would much rather pay my interpreter for letter translation than to the agencies. Next I will take you all through each move of the game with each of the four girls. Some are concluded and some are still pending. I call it a game because it truly felt like it. I felt like playing chess with the agencies or the girls. One thing I discovered immediately was that the email forwarding scam had evolved. They are much more clever than Anastasia Web was. These new guys take the time to answer the content of your letters. Let the battle begin. Deanis1010 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/9/2005 2:37:54 AM   Girl number one is from AFA. Elena 21 years old living in Mariupol Ukraine. Her first reply to my introduction letter was pleasant and addressed much of the content of my letter. She did not address that I had given her my mobile number (So that we may send sms to each other) and ignored the fact that I speak and understand some Russian. As planned, my second letter asked for her mobile or home telephone number. I explained to her that I would have my interpreter Olga contacts her on my behalf and to be free to ask Olga any questions she wanted. I also explained to her we could sms each other from our mobile phones. Her reply was again a pleasant letter addressing most of the content of my letter but here was the response to the important question. “I also would like to know you better but there was something in your letter that confused me very much. To tell the truth I don't understand why should I talk to some Olga who knows you? I think you can tell me much more about yourself than this Olga.” Notice how she avoids giving me her telephone number? In my next letter I agree with her and tell her I would be happy to call her myself and reminded her that I speak and understand some Russian. Her reply would be the deal breaker. Here it is “I don't have a home phone, I have a cell phone but recently it was stolen. By the way I wish you to know that i also have an interpreter, and if in the course of correspondence we decide to meet I would like to take my interpreter with me. I hope you have nothing against this. Ok, first the home phone thing. She lives with her parents. 90% of the homes in Ukraine have a phone. So this is probably bullshit. Second, her mobile phone is stolen. Could be true because a lot of mobile phones get stolen in Ukraine but the timing is convenient. End result is I have no way of checking her out with my interpreter. Also, She wants to bring her own interpreter. Conclusion of this girl. She’s a scammer. Probably the professional dater type. She meets me in Ukraine. Gets me to buy her a new mobile phone that she doesn’t need and can sell later. I pay her interpreter for all the hours we are together and they later split the money. Next! Deanis1010 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/9/2005 2:38:32 AM   Girl number 2 is Svetlana 21 and lives in Sevastopol Ukraine. From AFA agency. Her reply to my introduction letter seemed to be her introduction letter. She addressed none of the content of my letter. My first yellow caution flag is raised because of this. Her next letter arrived the next day! Not only was it unsolicited by me it was a total spam letter. It might as well have been cut and paste from a book of poems. It contained nothing about me or her. A big red flag this time. I smell scammer agency and not scammer girl on this one. This also brought to light a serious flaw in AFA email forwarding system. The way they do it is they don’t give you an inbox to choose if you want to read the girls email or not. They just send it directly to your email and deduct the money from your account. You must not only pay to send you must pay to read and when this girl sent me the spam letter I got hit for $6. Yes, I know I could call AFA and demand a refund but I’m in the middle of a chess game here! :) Following my plan I informed her that I would be traveling to Ukraine again soon and would like her telephone numbers so that my interpreter can contact her and help arrange our meeting. This was her reply. “It’s great you are planning to come to Ukraine soon and we could meet then. Unfortunately I don’t have my own phone number, but I would like to talk to you.i can go to my friend and you’ll call her when I am at her home.I will ask her when she’s free and tell you in my next letter,so we could arrange a call,ok? I’ve seen this move in the past. It usually will involve an agency that will charge me a conference call. In my reply letter I agree to call her at her friend’s home. I ask her for her friend’s telephone number and the day and time she wants me to call. I also have come up with a plan B on this girl. So, I ask her for the name of her local agency and their telephone number. In her reply letter she give me her friends telephone number and tells me to call on Monday at 8 PM her time. I got her letter on Tuesday…..She also gives me the agency name and telephone number. Two days later I get another spam letter from her. Again it says nothing about us. I closed the account because I am already at a zero balance. $100 gone between the two girls. My conclusion on this girl is she may be real but the agency is sending the letters. They get a cut for every letter they receive and send. Think about it. It adds up if you multiply that by 500 men. But I have a plan B. A very good friend of mine will be going to Sevastopol during the New Year Holiday and his girl is an interpreter. They are going to the agency and pose as interpreter and client and set up a date with this girl. He will have my photos and letters with him and ask they girl about her and me. Conclusion coming in January! Deanis1010 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/9/2005 2:39:17 AM   Girls number 3 and 4 from Amazing-Women coming soon! danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/9/2005 3:17:05 AM   Deanis, Cindy Agecy, in some opinions, have a good reputation and based on recommendations I tried Cindy Agency, for a short period, some time back, I had my doubts. Letters, from pretty ladies 25+ years my junior, would be transmitted to me at something like 0900 Ukrainian time, the lady might be in Krivoy Rog but the letter would be transmitted from the Dnepropetrovsk office, IP addresses verified this. Furthermore, many letters, supposedly from the ladies, would bear the hallmarks of being written by one person, just the way things are written, the basic introduction etc. and communicating with at least one other guy on via another website, he was receiving some or all of the same pretty young letters that I was receiving. Even to this day I receive emails from Cindy Agency, only the other day a letter from a pretty young thing 27 years my junior, OK the ladies, desperate to meet a guy, could opt to write to every guy on their database but when the guy is being asked to pay USD5 to respond then perhaps the agency should consider that they have a reputation to maintain and it's not all about making a fast buck. vanechka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/9/2005 5:38:43 AM   Great Stuff Deanis what i dont understand is these agencies are shooting themselves in the foot. Eventually even the stupidest western guy will catch on this. If they actually spent time being honest not tampering with email forwarding and letting the girl give you her contact info then more western guys would use the service. I still feel (like I said months ago) that the amount of clients agencies get these days has gone down... So they are trying to make money whatever way they can.. But the idiots dont realise that if just 1 agent was honest genuine etc they would make serious business.... I wonder if anyone has dealt with behappy2day.com and also Mordinson? They cant all surely be as stupid as anastasiaweb. keep the stuff coming Deaanis the menace Vanechka Deano Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/10/2005 4:57:49 PM   Hi gang. My other member login wont work for some reason so I'm logging in as my old member name Deano. Girl number three. Ksenia 18 from Odessa on Amazing-women. Her reply to my introduction letter was also pleasant and addressed most to the content of my letter. In my introduction letter I always include my mobile number and invite the ladies to SMS me. In her reply Ksenia was the first girl to actually respond to that invitation. This was her reply “As for SMS, you know, I’ve got a little problem about it… In the past I had a bad experience after giving my phone number to the man I didn’t know well and I had problems with my parents and now I’m very attentive in these questions. I think that we need more time to know each other better.” This reaction is actually reasonable to me. But nevertheless we are playing chess here and the next move is mine. So, in my next letter I explain to her why I need her number. I tell her that I need confirmation that she is a real person and not just some pretty girl’s photo on a website. I inform her I will have my interpreter contact her and give her a short interview just to confirm she is real and available to meet in the future. This was her reply “As for my mobile…I understand your doubts, but I ask you to understand me too. I am very careful about that. If you really want to hear my voice or want Natasha to talk to me we can arrange the phone call the following way: you will tell me the time when Natasha can call me or you can call me and at this time I will be at the agency and you just call to their number. After our conversation if everything goes well I can give you my cell phone number. What do you think?” As I see it this is dead advice and will only lead to a lot of letter writing to arrange such a call and a lot of letter writing equals a lot of money for the agency. This idea made no sense to me. We pick the time for you to be there? So when you cant make it you send me an apology letter which cost me $6 and ask me to try again and I send a reply for $6 and try again and so on and so on…… no thanks! My next move was to tell her that her idea would not work. I asked her to instead to just call my interpreter at her convenience. I told her she could call anytime and she could use her agency phone or her home phone or her mobile. I told her my interpreter has agreed to my plan and is waiting for her call. This was her reply “I will think properly about your offer. But now I’m not able to call her. Mobile connection in our country is expensive and I can’t afford now this telephone call. My account is empty now, so I’ll call her as soon as I have enough cash to make a call. Will it be ok with you?” I thought fair enough. But again in my reply I reminded her she could use her agency telephone to make the call and it would cost her nothing. Or she could use her work or home telephone to make the call. This was her reply. “I didn’t explain you the whole situation with expensiveness of our mobile connection. To call from home or work is more expensive than from cell phone, so the only chance for me to call your interpreter is to save money.” I already knew that and that is why I suggested the agency office. Notice she completely ignored that suggestion and only mentions home or work. Although she has been answering almost all of the content of my letters she is obviously doing everything she can to avoid real contact with my interpreter. Deano Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/10/2005 4:58:35 PM   After this letter I decided to begin setting up my plan B. In my next letter to her I asked for her local agency name and telephone number. In her reply again she wrote me a very nice letter and gave me the agency name and number. In my next letter I inform her that I am planning to come to Ukraine next month. I offer her to meet me in Kiev if she wanted. If not, then I would come to Odessa to meet her. I also asked for her mobile phone number again because it would be helpful to arrange our meeting. I also asked her for her postal address. This was her reply. “I am very happy, that you’ve already planned everything and will come to Odessa so soon! It would be much better if we could meet each other exactly in Odessa, because I will feel more comfortable like this. Hope you don’t mind about that. As you know, I don’t speak English good……I understand a little bit, but can’t talk and write , so it’s going to be useless to give you my number and e-mail(actually, it’s forbidden at sight). Well, again she’s avoiding that personal contact and I never asked her for her email address. I knew it was the one thing the site restricted. She does give me her postal address but it’s incomplete. I know the proper format. It’s missing her apartment number. She also suddenly gives me HER interpreter’s mobile number. And the agency office number which is a different number than the last one. My conclusion is if this is a scam then it is a team up of her and the agency working together. The content of her letters just make it real enough. But I don’t trust them so I will be cutting off the letter writing now because my account is just about empty. I’m using one of their own tricks on them. My last letter sent explained to her that I won’t be able to write her because I’m going away for a month to celebrate my holidays with friends and family. Just in case she is real she will understand why I stopped communication and if she is a scam then I stopped the letter writing and the wasting of my money. Remember my plan B? Well, I have all the information I need to go to Odessa and show up at their door with my interpreter and request a date with this girl. I plan on going there in late January or February. The final conclusion will be then. Next the story of girl number four also from Odessa. vanechka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/10/2005 10:32:40 PM   this stuff is a good lesson for novice guys. And your story is the same in every experience Ive had and people I know have had... Deano Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/11/2005 1:33:55 AM   Well the interesting thing is I will be able to personally verify 3 of the four girls when I go to Ukraine again. If all goes according to plan. The only one I won't be able to is the Mariupol girl. But I'm 99% sure she is a scam anyway. Girl number 4 story coming soon. vanechka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/11/2005 2:49:10 AM   What is your plan though for going in ukraine? What have you organised? I mean surely you dont want to go just for experiments? have you set up something with an agent??? Where are you staying? Deano Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/11/2005 1:36:34 PM   Even when I fail to find my soul mate I still have a wonderful time every time I go to Ukraine. Its a single man's dream world. This experiment is just an excursion. I have nothing to lose because I was going there anyway. If these girls turn out to be real and interested then great. If not then I move on to the next local agency or just meet the ladies by chance in the street, the cafe, or the night clubs. danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/11/2005 1:38:20 PM   Deano, I have to give you 10 out of 10 for attitude :)) Deano Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/11/2005 3:27:28 PM   Girl number 4 is Alena 22 from Odessa on Amazing-women. Out of all four girls Alena seems to be the most real. Her reply to my intro letter answered almost all of the content of my letter. Including my mobile number and the fact that I speak a little Russian. I sent her my reply which of course asked for her mobile number or home telephone number. To my surprise she gave it willingly. And her reply letter was very pleasant and interesting to read. This one seemed like she was for real. I sent her an sms message to her mobile phone but I did not get a reply. As planned I had my interpreter contact her and interview her. Alena refused to get her own private email and send letters to my Interpreter. She said she isn’t good with the computer and she has many other men interested in her and it was much easier to use the agency. Why should she use private email for just one man she has not met? I guess I could understand this reason. My interpreter’s impression of her was that she may not be a scammer but she may be a player. She said for me to keep my eyes open on this one. In my next letter to her I asked he why she does not answer my sms messages. This is where the first red flag was raised. She said her mobile phone does not have Russian text. I’m thinking huh??? So, in my next letter I asked her “Then what language does your phone have?” and her reply was that her phone only had Latin language. No this was a new one even for a man of my experience! She means to tell me she is living in Ukraine a country that uses the Russian language as its own and her mobile phone does not have the Russian language font in it. What kind of bullshit is that? LOL! She is lying of course. Why? I don’t know. My only guess is she does not want to communicate via text message (SMS) because maybe I will stop using the email forwarding. By refusing to go private email with my interpreter and I and no mobile to mobile messages, she has made our communication dependent on the email forwarding. She was doing so well until this point. In my next letter I told her about my travel plans to Ukraine and invited her to meet me in Kiev. She politely refused and suggested it would be best to meet in Odessa. I forgot to mention that I had my interpreter contact her again and ask her the name of her local agency. She told my interpreter the name was “Empire of love”. Has anyone heard of this agency in Odessa? I did a Google and found nothing. Now in-between that phone call I had sent a couple of letters. Well, I decided to ask her myself in a letter the name of her local agency. Another red flag is raised due to her response. This is it “unfortunately, I can’t give you the name of the agency and their telephone according to the rules of the site, as far as I know you can contact the site with purpose to receive some information, but maybe it would be easier for us to discuss all the details in our letters. What do you think? Unfortunately, the letter has come to its end for today, but I hope that there will be an amount of letter in the future between us!” As you can read she is clearly promoting the letter writing only and she says it’s against the rules to give me the agency information yet she gave the name to my interpreter two weeks earlier. And the other girl from Odessa is from the same agency I assume and she gave the information freely. In the last letter I sent to her I gave her a little test. She already said she loves to dance and she lives in a small city very near Odessa which has a lot of good disco’s there. She also knows that I have been to Odessa and visited many of its disco’s. So, I asked her what her favorite disco in Odessa was. This was her reply “As to my favorite places for dancing and eating, you know I am not an often guest at discos in Odessa, I prefer my hometown, and frankly, there are not a lot of places here, there are just a couple of nightclubs, like Metropolis and Golden Lion.” Interesting she could not name any disco in Odessa. Is the person writing these emails in another city? Hmmmm. I know there is a Golden Lion in the city of Kharkov. Anyway my account is just about empty so as I did with the other girl I sent Alena an email saying that I would be on holiday for one month and I would write again when I return. But the plan is the next time she hears from me I will be in Odessa. :) The conclusion here is that I think all four girls are scamming in one form or another. Hopefully I’m wrong but the only way I’m going to find out is by showing up at their doorstep. Also a good lesson here is that if you ask enough questions the scammer will show herself. I have corresponded with many girls from Ukraine and when they are real they don’t have these strange request or strange refusals. I’ll keep you posted on the outcome. It will be interesting to see how this all turns out. tradman Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/11/2005 4:02:36 PM   It's amazing, I wrote to 400 girls on this site, met 11 of them in as varied places as turkey, holland, moldova, cyprus and Egypt, and not one of them was scammer or anything other than sincere. I had a great time with them all, but they weren't the one. I still recieve friendly sms from them all about 1 a month, Of the 400 girls I wrote to, maybe 5 or 6 sounded dodgy. My advice, I never used any other site apart from Fiance.com and some common sense. Interesting experiment though, Deannis Deano Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/12/2005 12:27:00 AM   Yes, it should be fun to see how this all turns out. Like I said I have nothing to lose because I'm going to Ukraine anyway. The one thing I don't like about Fiance.com is the photo quality of the girls. They are just too small and too few. Is there a way to see more? For the most part there are many good girls out there to meet. But this pay for send and receive emails business seems to be the growing big scam and I just wanted to bring it back into the light for all to see and warn all the newbie guys out there. AFA is a reputable site but they work with affiliate agencies throughout Ukraine and Russia and some of those agencies are corrupt. Is Fiance.com the only site that offers unlimited emails for a monthly membership? danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/12/2005 3:19:28 AM   There sre other such sites Deano but it is for the individual to decide if they are worthwhile or not. The problem with such sites, whereas they never meet the ladies, is that 'quality control' suffers, let's face it you or I could post a female profile with pretty pictures and start asking guys for money, who's going to know we're blokes? The classics, when I was shopping around, was on freepersonals site, pictures appeared og J Lo, Meg Ryan, Andrea Corr etc. all claiming to be FSU females and it will only be when a guy complains that something may get done. The 'small town' agency, in my opinion, has to be the way to go! vanechka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/12/2005 8:50:24 AM   Hey Deano I would like to know how you start with these woman. Seems to me you are not being wise from the initial moment. I mean are all the woman you are messaging model looking ones??? I dont think much of the sites you got them from either..... Also Im curious about your visits to nightclubs in ukraine. Ive heard thats risky business.. One of my mates went to ukraine through Athenagency... He met 3 or 4 girls a day through the agency and one night he went with one to a club and nearly got into fights with the men in the clubs who could tell he was from another country... Whats the scene like??? isnt it safer to work through an agency Cheers vanechka IceChaos Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/12/2005 9:48:23 AM   I will add to this that I think that many women on here lie about their ages. Many of them are five to ten years older then what they have stated. Ice Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Me against the scammers of email forwarding
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