Two dreamers - Cruel world...

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N()R

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	Send: 4/14/2005 7:17:20 PM

Dragon, hehe.. Ignorant and pushy??? Noooooo... really?? LOL

spirittraveller

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	Send: 4/14/2005 9:37:29 PM

I wear shorts and T- shirt to work every day-not because my boss is liberal,but because I would "fall-out" if I did not, as the southerners in the U.S. say. It is hot as hell in Phoenix--I wish that damn bird would rise!! Got my brain baked today in the heat.I cannot imagine life here without air conditioning. People used to dig holes in the ground to sleep in. I totally agree with you,though Toad-- from about November until March the southwest is the most wonderful place. I marvel at it in November,when I am dressed down and sitting on the patio with a cool drink. My friends from Nebraska came here in February and laughed at having the pool all to themselves because Arizonans are too cold in 65 degree weather. The worst part about here is that in August,not only is it 120+ during the daytime--it is 90 at night.

idiotdetector

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	Send: 4/15/2005 7:34:30 AM

Nor. I appreciate what you are saying and I have not read all of this but I just want to say this about your origonal post. If you look though this site, and if you have met many Russian women (sorry I do not know you personal situation) you will find many women here saying how important work is. No statistics to give you but from personal experience most of these women are educated and not stupid at all. Maybe some of us are dreaming about something that is not there, but then again, that does not mean that there is still not something better to find there either, something that maybe we did not expect, but find anyway. And still makes up happy, or even happier that we thought possable

N()R

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	Send: 4/15/2005 8:42:40 AM

ID, I support you 100% on that statement. I am not saying there are women without education here. If you read my post "Family values and education" you will understand I know they work. I guess there is a reason they all have good education... And I also think it is ok to dream, of course.. where would we be without hope and dreams? As I also said, i think most of us in this Forum know a little about this, it was not for those of you that are seriously into this. It was meant more for other people just dropping by here, and reading. I just don't think it is fair to the ladies to give them hope, if the only thing you own in life is a computer, a highspeed connection and a castle built of air... I don't think most of us discussing on a regular basis is in that group actually... But, I am sure there are some men out there blinded by the beauty, with some spare time to spend at the computer, ruining some ladies dreams and hopes... Don't you?

Annika77

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	Send: 4/15/2005 8:59:42 AM

I told here several several times that lots of people see things in FSU what never been there!!! Im happy that people start to realize that world what is in their heads and reality are a bit different. And what about hope..NOR dont worry..women usually correspondence deifferent people...so there always is replacement. But, NOR your posts are great and its real refreshing european attitude.

tmmgem

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	Send: 4/15/2005 9:30:47 AM

Nor, I agree with you completely I was just trying to make a joke. I know that it happens. I myself have spent several weeks just reading all of the posts here. I will probably do a lot more research before I make up my mind to contact any of the ladies. I have to add that I have learned a lot from you all, and I appreciate all that you have posted.

N()R

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	Send: 4/15/2005 10:13:56 AM

Annika.. Thank you :) _________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________ tmm, Welcome to the Forum :) Yes, read and learn, there are a lot of guys in here that knows a lot, and can be a great resource. If you can't find the answer for your questions, just ask, and usually there are some bright head somewhere that knows the answer to it. btw, I understood your joke, my post after yours, were not intended on your post :)) Good luck.. and stay away from the ladies already taken.. hehe ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: N()R

tmmgem

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	Send: 4/15/2005 2:34:40 PM

Thank you Nor and I promise to stay away from taken ladies. ;^}

ItsaDragon

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	Send: 4/15/2005 2:39:16 PM

Nor, Here is an interesting fact that I didn't know about the US: The top 1 percent of American families, for example, now own as much as the bottom 95 percent combined, the highest such gap among developed nations. Put that in your fact pipe :).

N()R

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	Send: 4/15/2005 4:38:51 PM

Dragon, wow, that was some kind of gap.. really.. About the facts, that was just for fun. I found this website, realityclock.com, and it is showing in realtime a lot of statistics, not only for US, but also the rest of the world.

izifaddag

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	Send: 4/15/2005 11:11:19 PM

I get to wear T shirts and shorts just about 12 months a year. We have a tropical climate and it only gets a tiny bit chilly for a few weeks in the winter. Most of these ladies know about Florida and it was a definite advantage. The beach in January? Of course it is an advantage. :))Beats out Ekaterinburg any day :)) Speaking about earning power and location I had a issue that again had to be thrashed out with my lady friend. It was a really a party stopper but yet again it came up 4 aces. I am fully aware that I will not have enough money to retire. There is nothing I can do about it, it is a fact of life. Social security, 401K and even my company pension are not going to save me. I just don't have the earning power to be able to stick away $500 to $1000 a month to be able to really ensure continuity. Therefore long before Marina came along I looked at this question. My initial reaction was Malaysia. They like westerners, it is cheap and you can have a very civilised life there. Low crime and friendly people really make it welcoming. Next I looked at Thailand. There they have developed superb medical centers and retirement centers for Americans, Australians and Europeans. VERY cheap. My 3rd solution came up after talking with Marina. There is a city called Sochi on the Black Sea. Great climate really cheap and on just American social security you could live very well. I put these solutions to her and she thinks all 3 are great. I was very surprised. She loves the idea of Sochi but also likes the idea of Malaysia or Thailand. Here is the other half to this. Marina and I have worked out a plan that she will not work for the first year. She will study and settle the child in school. Play housewife and feel her feet. However she is completely up for work and contributing into the family coffers. We still have a long way to go but most of these practical issues we have talked about now and put to bed. In a modern American home it is almost inevitable that the wife must work. The Leave it to beaver thing is truly dead. tmmgem I don't know what you do for a living to either need or afford a big body guard but you definitely are not ordinary. You don't see a lot of that in the shopping malls, bars or restaurants I go to.:)))

spirittraveller

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	Send: 4/16/2005 12:13:45 AM

I really cannot imagine retirement. I have so many broken and achey bones since my first job in 1975. I still work like I was 20,and my left hand is numb from the pinkie finger to the wrist from carpal. My right knee has been hurt so many times it is constant pain. I have broken fingers,toes,collar bones,my right bottom 3 ribs 3 times,and my left bottom 2 also. Fractured skull, concussions,and many other things that should have slowed me down too. I will never stop,and I do not want to. I will not wait until I am 70 to enjoy life,because I know that life is about movement,and to stop moving or having vigorous physical activities ( mental too) is to become atrophied and one step closer to mediocrity and death. I cannot imagine that a one child mama would be content to be a Stepford Wife or Homedrone either. The women that keep themselves in great shape are on the go,and maybe a Total Gym is the answer. But I wonder if it is enough for them,or if they need productivity and contributive assurances for themselves too. I have found good American women before--one that comes to mind was an herbalist near Glacier Park in Montana who grew up in a hippie commune where now the rich and famous play. A beautiful soul who ate charcoal and niacin,but who had no true aim or goals in life. I`m sorry guys,this is just not enough for me. She was a hell of a huckleberry picker,but I want a woman who is just as excited and craving for life as me-one who can dance me till my legs are wobbly, then want more.There has to be more then just barefoot and pregnant. I will help her bead moccassins if I have to--I will devote my money and time to her e-bay business or whatever-but I think that every person has their own personal song to sing,and I am in praise of them that sing it,even though it may be with a poor voice. I sing my song too,but I am not afraid to be domestic and do dishes,change diapers,get up every 2 hours-or support her when she wants to attend a renaissance festival because her pals are there. I revel in a woman who wants to create-not just consume. You guys know (I am certain) how you feel after being inactive. I cannot be inactive for more then a week without feeling worthless and impotent. So how is it for her? I am warming to this idea of social security in Sochi,maybe a craft to subsidize the income. Hell,maybe Costa Rica,if there`s any of that left.

idiotdetector

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	Send: 4/16/2005 5:16:06 AM

nor, sure, I was one of them who was bitten. by the beauty. I thought I had everything under control but I did not. Its easy enough and can happen to anyone.

N()R

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	Send: 4/17/2005 12:11:55 AM

I have been there myself....

PaulM

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	Send: 4/20/2005 1:36:21 AM

Nor Isn't the dream side of this for most men just the opportunity to find a partner younger than they can find nearer home? I read on some forum the other day that in the US for instance there are alot of Russians / Ukrainians living in New York and Los Angeles areas, so if guys want to date a RW/UW why don't they do it without travelling so far? I made 6 trips there, usually 3 to 6 weeks duration, but I realise for some the distance and limited vacation time makes visits tougher, but for those making a trip and deciding to get married first trip think she is in love? gimme a break , is nothing wrong moving so fast just understand the level of risk, is she in love? well... I proposed 2nd trip but did it without any illusions, we both discussed the risks and commitment needed.We're married and together over 2 yrs now,but I realsie my wife ( with 18 yr age difference ) would probably have dated someone younger if she was living here where we are now in Europe, but we are together quite long time and our love has grown. I don't think its wrong that people try find younger prettier wife, just people need a ' heads up' and realise what will follow, ie the man needs to fulfill her dream in some way to make her happy or maybe she could look to trade up. I don't try start age debate, but in this type of marriage is key that the man can come up with the goods after she moves country, or at least be seen to be trying 100%, if people think after going to FSU they can put pretty little wifey in the home and she will be happy to cook and clean and have some low status work, they are maybe in for a surprise. My own experience is that its like opening the door to let the Tiger out.

Annika77

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	Send: 4/20/2005 4:35:50 AM

Yes, but where guys get that opinion what girls are helpless, happy to cook, clean and do low status work or stay home??? That russian girls prefer older men and are "traditional" what ever it means. Who tell them these lies in USA or Australia (dont see much Europeans in that trap) and is it normal that person understand it only after marriage?

Maxirat

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	Send: 4/20/2005 5:07:29 AM

Yes there are men that want a young pretty petite house pet. To show off to their mates and brag about the great sex etc etc. I cant find the exact words to explain, but there is a big difference in the attitudes and priorities of FSU women and western women. This difference is narrowing. I have seen in the 2 years I have been over there and communicated with ladies that it is happening real quick. It�s the old clich�, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. To FSU women, it has until recently looked like a bloody great oasis on the other side of this fence. They are not leaving their country and families because we are better looking or better lovers. The most genuine ladies I have met in person and via email, are the ones that have a child and want a better life and bigger opportunities for them to grow up in, this in genuine and good motherhood qualities. This does not mean they are selling themselves to gain this. But if I or you were another Russian man living in their town, we more than likely wouldn�t get a second look. Because we can offer a better lifestyle and future (well I think we can) then they look with a different focus lens, so to speak. And as we all know, familiarity breed content, and true love and rock solid partnership evolve. The wider the age difference the higher the risk of failure. Not all fail, a lot work out great. I think if you want to have greater confidence that it would work, I would recommend keeping the age gap below 10 years. That�s my opinion, based on only a few examples but more based on the logical human nature life cycle. The main reason I am looking for my future partner in East Europe, is I love a challenge. There is also a big difference in their attitudes to life and their partners, what I do not know, will these attitudes and priorities be the same after 2- 3- 5 years living in the West ?????????

N()R

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	Send: 4/20/2005 9:21:08 AM

Finally.. We are starting to talk the same language guys! This is exactly what I have been trying to say as well. It is nice to have dreams, but you really have to understand the women as well. I mean, if a guy in his 40's or 50's really believe the 23 yo Russian beauty is in love after some sweet mails and/or a couple of weeks together, he really need a wake-up call!!! What did your mum teach you?? Where is your social antenna?? She like his money, his lifestyle, the opportunity to escape the poverty she live in, but love?? NO WAY!!!! (add an R and you have NORWAY..cool) Ok, just denie it and keep your dream of a paradise on earth, I myself leave that dream for the whitnesses of Jehova.. I have to agree with Maxi, keeping the age gap below 10 years is to be recommended, then you will have someone that wants you sexually as well, not someone that does it because she feel commited to do so... Ok, I know some of you are happy in love, you have found the woman of your dreams, life is wonderful... Sure it can happen.. Just look at Anna Nicole Smith... True love.. SURE!!! Paul have chosen the right words for it.. "the man needs to fulfill her dream in some way to make her happy or maybe she could look to trade up". You have to compensate with something else to make her happy, because your wrinkled skin won't do the magic... :))) (LMAO) Ok, I know I am being very provocative right now.. please keep making love, and NO WAR.. (Add the Y and move the R and you have NORWAY... cool). Ok, I will come down to earth again, and be seriuos. It can work with bigger age-gap, but the chances are not as good as if the gap is smaller. If you have a smaller gap, you will have more in common, and you will really need to have some things in common, because for especially one of you there will be a whole new world to relate to. Maxi is mentioning the excact point: "if I or you were another Russian man living in their town, we more than likely wouldn�t get a second look". This is what I want you to understand, this is why you have to work even harder when she finally arrives. It is a myth that they like to be in the kitchen, or just take care of kids all day long, it is a myth that they don't want a career. What is not a myth is that they are more beautiful, more humble, more loving, more straight forward, more faithful than most western women. But in all societys all over the world there are rotten apples, so be aware and don't let the good looks fool you!!! But when that is said, I have to add that miracles can happen, just look at Toad... ;)))) What are the odds that a toad ends up with a russian princess.. I would say slim(y) to none.. (I am joking Toad -and you know it.. LOL) At the same time I would recommend all western men to replace their fat bitches with a loving FSU woman, if you find the woman for you, your life will be wonderful, if not paradise on earth, something close to it... for sure!!!

N()R

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	Send: 4/20/2005 9:23:07 AM

Why do I have a feeling someone is going to rip my head of, turn it around and put it on backwards so I can watch myself being kicked in the ass...????

izifaddag

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	Send: 4/20/2005 10:14:16 AM

Nor and Maxi I agree and disagree. I also think that a 20 year or 20 year plus age gap is too much. However I have several success stories so I am not going to discount the idea. I believe that a maximum of 15 years is the limit. That is just me though. In my own case I have someone who is 12 years my junior. Everything seems to be ok on the age front. That isn't the issue with my situation. I can see how it could be though. You would have to be blind not to realise that. Hence the prenup. It has to be said though that the attiutude of a woman from FSU is different from a regular attractive American woman. They tend to be more interested in what is going on inside you than how thick your billfold is. They are practical so there is no point in attempting this if you do not offer a future with hope of a better life ahead. Especially for the child and I also agree that choosing a woman with a child is something of a better bet. Once she has decided with all due care and artention that you seem to be a good bet she will commit fully. I want to give a solid example of what I am talking about. Before I started all this with FSU women I met a Colombian woman called P. She was in her 40's and had money of her own. However she prefered mine. I am not rich. I cannot afford expensive dinners in restaurants in the middle of the week on the vague off chance that I might get laid. It just isn't going to happen. However like an idiot I played along and was duly played like a fish. I dropped her. I go off to Russia and everybody here knows what happened. I started to look around again and imagine my surprise when right out of the blue I get a call from P at work!! I decided to give it a 2nd chance. She immediately started with the "I am busy tonight I'll see you tommorow" nonsense. I decided to conduct a little experiment. She mentioned in this 1st phone call some guy she met last year, which she had chemistry with but never seemed to have enough money. He needs to work harder she said. Hello says I, is that right. So we talked on the phone and I asked her if she would like to get together for a cup of coffee. She didn't like that idea too much. So I told her straight that I am sorry I can't afford to go to an expensive aerea and pay $8 a glass for cheap plonk and then be looked at for a tip. $40 for a casual meetup ain't going to happen. I HAVE NOT HEARD FROM HER SINCE!!! I knew that was going to happen and I am glad I proved this point to myself - again. P is your typical, spoiled, American or Americanized woman. Wine me, dine me and I'll think about it. Answer - get lost bitch I'm occupied.

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