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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > The 400 Author Post QuietCharm Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/8/2005 10:17:26 AM   No worries Izi. Tearing and ripping is out of place in this thread. No need for confusion over whether Gerhardt was simply a ploy. Of course he wasn't. You were buying the engagement ring and she felt the need to test you? Even if she did, she could have written a letter without the explicit stuff and still achieve her aim. Think about it. If YOU were writing to your fiancee to test her would you be so graphic? It beggars belief. Obviously, there is not just one method of approaching this. Tortoise or hare. Passive or aggressive. Intuition vs reason. It's up to you. I wonder how many of us have ended up in failed relationships and recalled those early hiccups which we so lightly dismissed? Hindsight is a wonderful thing. How much more likely are we to shrug things off when you add in the 'justifications' of culture and language? Include the investment in time, emotions and money and it's understandable that we are willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt. Izi, you had stated that you weren't getting any younger and you felt you only had one shot at this. You put pressure on yourself for results. I don't mean that in an unkind way. It just adds to this tendency to dismiss the early signs. The consequences, you are painfully recognising. You said that you weren't fussy. One of the most important decisions in your life and you're not fussy? It's a testament to your flexibility but doesn't this also add to the probability of letting potential future problems pass through your filter? I'm with spirittraveller. I think time together counts. You probably know yourself, that it wasn't so long ago that couples courted for years. With my grandparents it was 6! With tight communities We would grow up knowing our future spouse. We want instant gratification these days and let's face it, don't have the luxury of a long, leisurely look. Risk is, therefore, inherent in this process. In this case, you didn't need a long time evaluating. She gave you more than enough clues from the start. You are sensitive. Not the only one in here. An aggressive stance.. walking at the first sign of trouble.. may go against the grain, yet could be the change in pattern you need. How about also just holding a little bit back on falling too deeply in love. Maybe forget the engagement ring until you have had the 90 days together? You'll save a bob or two ;-)) It's clear from all these excellent posts that you have the answers. You just need to solidify it in your mind. Just watch the tendency to overcompensate. You can still be a good guy. (As it seems is Toad). izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/8/2005 11:31:10 AM   Yes QC I have learned a lot. 49 nearly 50 and learning about love. A little pathetic I suppose. Now I am much fussier. Things are changing under my feet so to speak. From the time I originally opened this thread to your response things are changing. It is forming and molding itself. I am not in any danger of overreacting. It is impossible. My character is formed and will not drastically change. I am a feeling kind of guy. No good denying it. An over middle age single, white, divorced American English man so what is new? We are prime targets aren't we? Even with a little belly and hair that isn't quite as thick. We are target for tonight. Bomb doors open. These superb posts have helped. They help all of us get to the core of our beliefs and values and help form new ones. Clarify others. It is a bit like the Borg on Star Trek. We all learn together by both the successes and the failure that we all get to participate in vicariously. I am not ashamed to share mine just as Jet has done in the past. I disagree about this time thing. I am getting on. Retirement and 70 years old is a reality to me. It is in the distance but I can make it out. I have no children and an unsuccessful 12 year marriage behind me. I would like to correct that before too much more time has passed. I don't have the luxury of spending a month at a time together with a lady in Russia. I would have to destroy the very stability that makes me attractive in the first place. Because let us not forget that this economic factor is right up there along with modest drinking and no smoking. See how far you get if you tell them that you are unemployed or you will give up your corporate job to spend the summer with them. If you do in today's climate you will probably find (especially at this age) that you won't get another one. Then you have just shot yourself in the foot. The other side of the coin is her. She is to turn her world upside down to come to America with a child for 90 days to see if on the off chance you are suited to each other?? No way isn't going to happen. No, it is necessary to write, visit, write, call, visit, write, call, visit again, and throw the dice on the table there are no guarantees. You see what I mean? It is difficult. This was necessary. It is a learning process. A bit from Toad a bit from Nas, a bit from Ditto. Lots from myself. I am turning down the volume on my emotions and increasing my practical side. It is unnatural for me. I love very easily. The attention you get is addictive. Somebody actually interested in ME?? Must be a mistake. Look at her she is beautiful. Definitely must be a mistake. No she means it. Wow. Oops she is an asshole. What a surprise - yeah right. Thanks QC input fully absorbed and very well taken. It goes into the mix and I have only just finished another letter. It goes well. Before you know it I will be posting about my latest beauty and hopefully she won't be Bipolar. BTW I talked to a guy at work earlier to find out about that. His wife is bipolar. He explained it to me. Yep Marina was bipolar. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/8/2005 11:31:21 AM   QC, I knew one of these days you'd willingly become one of my ...er...what did you call them? Ah, yes "Minions"...;))) IZI, Keep an eye on that "I'm hurt" comfort zone. It's all too easy to want to stay in the mud simply because it keeps you warm and lets you float without effort. At one point, we have to get off the mud pool, clean off and make ourselves presentable again. toad izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/8/2005 11:35:54 AM   Toad I think I have done that in style. My ball is rolling and picking up speed everyday. No time to wallow. Just a statement of the facts. Upwards and onwards as they say. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/8/2005 11:43:05 AM   Good, mate...and learn the darn time zones once and for all...;))) izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/8/2005 12:04:30 PM   Sorry GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/8/2005 3:47:44 PM   lol...no need to be...:)) spirittraveller Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/8/2005 11:43:09 PM   Whats with this 49 stuff? if you live till 107 you aren`t even middle age yet! I totally concur with you QC. When men gave up the farming community for the smoke of the city,they started to practice instant relationships. It is about the same difference as real mashed potatoes versus instant Idahoan spuds. Many people venture out so seldom that their greatest chance at a relationship is from a woman who works in the same building. I know many guys like me-who have serviced people all their lives,and serviced for women who they ended up being with. It is a common conception ( true ) of the service plumber. But back to communalism. This to me is what is really wrong in America. Most of us do not observe a communalistic attitude. We are Ameri-phobics. Small congested countries have learned by force how to tolerate each other. I am always amazed by war torn and ( formerly) divided Germany. Her people are still proud and nationalistic. You cannot help but feel good at the Oktoberfest or even an AMerican Germanfest,because everybody dances,sings,and generally has a great time together,with lots of merry frivolity. The women are not stuck-up and are easily approachable ( beer?) If there are 10 Americans who came to the bar singly,and do not know each other,and 10 tables--each table will have 1 occupant. We spurn each other in homophobia. Maybe because our brand of freedom gives us personal space too. But we do not reach our to each other,so displaced we are from community involvement. I was young,but remember hayrides,church picnics,box social lunches,Sadie Hawkins, town dances and many more ways that people used to meet. Now it is preeminently the local bar where the sluts hang out and seem to make the rounds with too many men. It stands to reason that a quickie rushed relationship has a very shaky foundation to stand on,so when it does topple, it does not fragment,but turns to dust. Along with the spontaneous frig comes the expendable relations. I do test women with time,tactful questioning,and awareness to their heightened responses. When the level of emotional involvement reaches a feverish,crescendoing pitch,and does not fade beyond a realistic level for a few months----SHAZAM! Off to Almaty I go! This is my hope now,but I will not swear to it!! Expect the worst,and hope for the best. Neither optomist or pessimist. QuietCharm Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/9/2005 1:29:22 AM   You are right Izi, time is a luxury most do not have. Lol, Toad. It will be a dark day in history before this misfit is minionized. ;-)) QuietCharm Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/9/2005 2:50:30 AM   Is an 'Idahoan spud' the same as a 'Wimbledon wobbler'? This generation of British women is incredibly fat. Hard to spot a slim one these days. I notice the advertising in the mags is beginning to change to glorify the new female form. Beats eating healthily and exercise, I suppose. Worldtraveller Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/9/2005 3:22:44 AM   izi, i wished my english language skills would be better, so that i could express my thoughts and opinions more correct....... i got suspicious about your marina starting when you described how the interieur of her apartment was looking like. it is very untypical for a russian woman to have no order at home. from my experience it showed me, that she probably is instabile. izi, you have not any reason to get mad about your passed story. it was her to turn out to be nut and not you. i think you believed to be too much into love with her. you didnīt and didnīt want to see the couple of warning lights she showed to you. you donīt deserve such a woman. finally, be glad that the truth turned out early enough to avoid bigger hassles later... what do you understand under bipolar? does it mean bisexual? if so, than i must say, that comparing to western woman russian woman are more often bipolar. but,hm, it gave my several time the chance to have some nice affairs :-).... WT GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/9/2005 4:01:15 AM   LMAO...!! No that's not what bipolar means. Annika77 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/9/2005 6:13:32 AM   After I started to read that site I dont need soap operas any more...So many broken hearts...So many middle aged men living in fantasy world, russian Cinderellas who turn to evil stepmothers:)...Real change if you live in the country where people are rational and cold :):):) izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/9/2005 7:36:17 AM   WT Thank you, you have grasped the situation. Although you need to find out about the bipolar stuff. Annika You have not grasped the situation. We are not lonely hearted fools. Tricks can be played on the most balanced stable person. I have some cold thoughts about all this now myself. Firstly I think that the book by Elena Petrova should be completely ignored it is total rubbish. There is more combined practical knowledge in one thread in this forum than all her books combined. Still it is a way to make money isn't it? Yes, that is what I think of this, that is what Marina thinks of this. She thought that ths whole process was ridiculous and like looking for a needle in a haystack. Write all you want but until you meet - who knows. And it isn't like popping over to the local supermarket. Each visit is a major undertaking for everybody here. Timewise, financially. So we are at the mercy of fate. You try to narrow the odds. Toad did a great job but there are no guarantees. It is a crap shoot. A total gamble. My major mistake was thinking that FSU women were different than western women. They are not. They are no different. It isn't just about more women than men and they are all alcoholics. It isn't true. They look to escape a rough life and give there kids a better opportunity. It is wallpapered over with talk of different culture and this and that but it is nonsense. They want out Annika. They want to escape. And just like western women they want it all and to fool themselves that they do this for 'love' to find their 'soulmate'. It is self delusion on their part not the western man. I think that western men go into this with their eyes far more wide open than you give us credit for. We often have a darn sight more at stake than the woman. So I have talked about (for me) less emotion and more practicality. You betcha. One thing I do is learn. Once bitten twice shy. I think the number of Lenas is outnumbered by the number of Marinas. very much still worth looking for and by no means impossible but nowhere as easy as we are led to believe. The more I look at this the more I see the logic in what Toad has done. I still am an emotional guy and have total resoect for Nas's approach, hell I naturally lean towards that myself. However my suspicion and bullshit tolerance level is through the roof right now. You wil hear me talk about kicking one to the curb now or dumping someone. The rhetoric has changed. The touchy feely Mr nice guy, is suspended right now. He is still there and will be allowed out when a nice lady shows herself to be genuine. Not the other way around. I have quite a few that I am talking to now. There is one particular beauty in Odessa. She started off super romantic. Like syrup. It took a while but now she gets it a little. What do you do for a living. How do you get along with your ex husband? Why did you divorce? Will he let the child go? What kind of work do you think you would do in America? Why don't you like Ukrainian men? ............... I think she realises now that this isn't walks in the park and candlelit dinners. The first sign of balking at my personal interview like questions and she is gone. Don't worry all questions are done in a respectful and conversational manner. But they are there. The women look in a cold calculating way and will give me the push without even a second glance or a goodbye note. It works 2 ways. They shop just like me. No I don't think so I'll put that one back on the shelf. This is the reality. So Annika shut up about "So many middle aged men living in fantasy world" you don't know what you are talking about. Yes someone gets taken but the majority of men that are looking are not fools (maybe just me:)) nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/9/2005 8:26:03 AM   Annika, I don't know what would be more pleasant, two hours talking with you in person or 2 hours in Venom ER!When I lived in California, I used to catch rattlesnakes and take them to venom centers for money. The rattlesnakes seemed to have a more pleasant disposition. You always say how rational and cold Russian women are. Well I will agree, they are no cinderella's that's for sure. That is what sent me to Ukraine, thank God!Well Larissa is rational, but not cold and when she comes here in November I will send you a card. Annika77 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/9/2005 9:09:59 AM   Nasfan, Im never mentioned russian wumen are cold and rational :)Because they are not :) More temperament and irrational in my opinion :) I just said I come from cold, rational nordic nation and these melodramatic stories (as your comment too, rattlesnakes :):)) are fantastic entertainment for me! What about the card..yes..do that ...but only after you lived 5 years with your Larissa! izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/9/2005 11:10:58 AM   Annika You typify what I was talking about in my previous post. Your comments to Nas absolutely underline how cold and calculating the Russian mindset of these women is. You are the same. You treat this as a business opportunity and the western man is the punter, the rube, right? If he gets taken so what he deserved it correct? Glorius russian women and stupid pitiful western men, right? I am glad you write here because your posts should be a warning to anybody new. Alarm bells should be ringing to all who hear you. The success stories are few, the failures many. I am not talking about the ones that come to America to live like Lena and Larissa. I mean the ones that are still there. Nas's analogy of rattlesnakes is very appropriate. That is exactly what we have here. Nas is an expert when he climbs in a pit with those snakes (Russian women) he knows what he (the western man)is doing. They will strike him for fun. Their opinion of him is contempt, fear and hatred. It is natural to the snake. Every now and again he will find one that is cooperative and easy to pick up. They are unusual. When you find one it is a pleaure. Of course this is fantastic entertainment value for you. OF COURSE! Because you are a cold calculating Russian woman. In other words normal!!! The search is still worth it, despite insincerity, scammers, nuts and those that just have no idea what they are doing. " I don't need my ex husbands permission for my Ivan, Sveta or Misha to leave the country and I won't listen to you Mr Westernman. Even if you do know more about it than me and I am wasting both your time and money" Please post away Annika because you are very, very instructional. Everybody new read and learn from Annikas posts. They have great merit and NEED to be read. She totally gives the game away. No poker face here. Annika77 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/9/2005 12:07:36 PM   Oops Izi, this went wrong now...Im actually not Russian and live in Baltics! Im not going to emigrate USA, thank you very much :) I dont think russian wumen are cold and rational, but temperament and irrational! And in the end why I care really to post here...all I got is insults! You actually dont care of knowledge who actually live in FSU area ...But...I see that life puts things to their right places anyway! QuietCharm Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/9/2005 12:49:18 PM   It would be a pity if you stopped posting Annika. A woman on here is usually on a hiding to nothing. When has a female opinion ever been welcomed? Izi I think you should keep your powder dry. Annika has a point. FSU women in my experience don't have the same psychological vocabulary as the rest of us. They also don't hold inquests and analyse situations to death. They just move on. In that context Annika is right. Annika. You do need to bear in mind that westerners are at various stages of needing therapy, having therapy or have just come out of therapy! Western society is psychologically sick! O, for a time when life was simple and we didn't have Dr.Ruth, Oprah Wimprey and an army of psycho-wossnames telling us how f****d up we are. ;-))) izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/9/2005 1:22:50 PM   Annika I don't care where you are from. You are a typical example. You are the exact problem and I don't care if you want to go to America or not, it is irrelavant. You are cold and calculating and that is the point. Please keep posting, we need you to educate all of us stupid western men. The main point about you is that at least you are honest. You just open your mouth and the arrogance spills out. It is extremely instructive, we need you. QC Simple answer, NO. I will not keep my powder dry, I am going to speak my mind. Annika's analyse of the situation is wrong. More smoke and mirrors. What I have said is true. Frankly I couldn't care less what their psychological vocabulary is that isn't important. I know what mine is and that is the one we are playing with here. If they want to find a western man, if they want to come and live in the west then we play by western rules not eastern. They need to learn the English language and get their ducks in a row or bow out the game. There is waaay too much emphasis on how WE are supposed to bend over backwards for them. Not for me anymore. Today I had something very nice and very unusual happen. Right out of the blue I had a woman call me not once but twice from Russia. She lost the call I wondered what the heck was happening - another wrong number - then she tried again. We chatted. She lost me. Then she called again. With broken English and I know that was expensive for her I think she made a real effort. I am impressed. She goes right to the top of my list. That is what I call making an effort. She means it. Good girl. She gets it. More soap opera Annika?? Say something witty please. Teach us. We are idiots and ready for the plucking. 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