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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum >  Affiliate Agencies of fiance.com: Moldova and Saint Petersburg Author Post danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 3:14:43 AM   One question, How do the agency communicate with her, to let her know that a letter has arrived, if she ain't got a phone? nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 6:08:53 AM   uffed I think I have made similar post's regarding the behaviour of agency's in the past. Especially the treatment of the Legitimate girls they have on their website. I was never really amazed by the Miss Wow's on this site. If you search you can easily find ten women that look better than what's listed on the Miss Wow. I agree, I'm not flying 5000 miles to Meet Miss Bow Wow either. The Miss Wow is nothing but a letter writing campaign to stimulate interest and to procure leads for an agency. Hell if a guy contacts a Miss Wow, that's nothing more to agency but a sales lead, to influence a man to possibly write another woman in their agency. At least that's my take on it. Actually it has been my experience and if the girl is smart and isn't totally hypnotized by the agency, is to sever the relationship with the agency, but the Agency is smart, they create a dependence with the girl. They tell her things like you can't communicate without us, you can't do this without us, you'll never meet the right guy without us. It's easy to figure on the whole that the dating industry is motivated on one thing.The almighty buck. I know for a fact many girls are told, that the man they are communicating with is never going to come especially if he is from the USA. As for meeting a foreign man, yes many will meet a foreign man, but the reality is they want to meet someone from Western Europe and not be that far from their homeland. It takes a very special woman to leave the FSU and come to a place like the US or Australia. The sad part of the Agency scene is when, a girl meets a man she likes, she is still prompted to write other men. If she doesn't she becomes a liability to the agency. No dollars coming in, you're not worth much to us. If she decides to become engaged to this man, well she is totally useless and is pretty much shunned by the agency. She really has little value to the agency now. I took your post with a healthy amount of humor, and some of the antics of agency's and their affiliates are hysterical. The reality of it all, is this is a business, motivated by lonely men that are willing to easily part with their money. Yes agency's have difficulties with guys like you and me and many other men here that doesn't let loneliness motivate how they spend there money. I really believe that the agency's have no real interest in helping two people make a connection. If they did, then why have idiotic fee's for there translators to meet with you in a specific city, or outrageous fees for tours of these cities. Agencies usually want a minimum of a $100 a day for their translators, for you to pay for their room and board and their plane fares. hell you can find literally hundreds of students willing to be a translator in Kiev for 30-40 bucks a day. I have one contact that will give you a full day tour of Kiev for a hell of a lot less than most agencies organize and she will drive you in her car to the sites of interest and ones that you may personally want to see. You are correct though, you must go to a country first to learn these things and sift through the BS that the agency's put down to you and their girls. Letter writing is no way to understand a woman, it gives you an idea. After a month of writing my fiance, I knew that agency had no interest in us meeting. I asked for her cell number and home number and address. Which she gave freely. I was also asked by her not to writer her everday, because the agency doesn't make the money they could if I didn't use fiance.com as my clearinghouse. They gave her a lot of shit about this. So our communication for the last year has been mainly by phone, post and SMS. After we became engaged, her agency had an attitude towards her like, Who are you and why are you asking us to help you with anything. She went to ask about some questions of documents for her K1 and was treated rather coldly by the staff at her agency. Why then post on their website that they will help with K1 Visa's. Well it's another avenue to monetary gain. If a agency did want to help, why don't they just list the name of a good immigration attorney? No it's a bit of a sham I agree, but I will disagree with you on a point that very few of the attractive women are willing to relocate. The difficulty for us lies in finding the woman as in my case who is strong and brave enough to relocate to the United States. My fiance had told me on a couple of occasions that her first choice would have been Europe. When we first became engaged I asked to think long and hard about relocating to the US. She never jumped at the opportunity and had to think it over. I wanted to make sure she was commmitted enough to come here. After a month, she was ready to make this committment. Then she became nervous again after the K1 had become approved and she waited for the interview date. I asked her again if she wanted to come to the US. She told me, any woman that was honest would share her fears with her man about moving to a totally strange country, strange culture and strange language. She wanted to know that I was committed to helping her as a person and not to create a relationship based on her need of me. Or the indentured servant attitude. Any guy who thinks that this isn't difficult and they can pick any woman from an add and she is going to jump at the opportunity because you live in a more economically developed country is fooling themselves. On that note, sure some of these ladies want to improve their lives, but not just financially, the want love and undivided attention from a man that they are not getting in their country and an opportunity for a better material life where the playing field is a little more level for them to grow as a person. I though your post was great, and maybe it will take the beer goggles off of some men and make them see this for what it is. It's not easy, it is full of scams nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 6:12:06 AM   It's not easy, it is full of scams and pitfalls and land mines. When it comes down two it, Fiance.com, the agencies and their affiliates don't really care about your success with a woman. That's the stark reality. So when a guy realizes that these sources aren't their to support him in his search the better off he becomes. They will pay you lip service on how they trie to improve their product and prevent scammers. The final responsibility comes down to us, each individual to figure out what is going on in this industry. Later Mike nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 6:15:36 AM   Martin I knew of two ladies that didn't have phones at home and they were called at work when the had mail at the agency, They would have the mail read to them or they would just stop by time to time and check. Later Mike skiired Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 6:45:10 AM   I trust my agency , they always took care of me and were honest with me. Well after I had problems with my fiance and she went back to Russia, I decided to see if I could find someone else through them since I do trust them. They asked about what happened with me and my girl and found that it had to do with other things around us not our feelings for each other that doomed our relationship. Instead of trying to introduce me to new ladies they went and seen my fiance. To make a long story short they told me not to let her go, and try to fix things with her as they seen she still loves me too. Told me to try and work things out privatly and if I needed them for anything they were at my disposal. Theres alot more to this but Im not sharing my personal business with the world. I just wanted to share that there are honest agencies out there, and if I cant fix my situation I will most likely do business with these people again to find an honest caring woman. Why go to a different city or country when I have realized I have a very good relationship with these people. Plus I love this city, its really made an impression on me and I cant wait to return. buffed Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 10:41:32 AM   Mike and Forum, That was a very good post by Mike, he made two points I'd like to highlight: 1. Mike's most important point involved the contradiction of financial motivations between an agency and your success. Mike wrote ">I really believe that the agency's have no real interest in helping two people make a connection<" He's absolutely correct, this is exactly the case. To put it another way: Your failure is their success. If a man develops a relationship with one of their attractive-popular ladies they are losing not only your business, but also one of their cash cows, not easy to replace. All of their revenue streams are based on introduction and communication. It would be ideal if an agency compensation program could be designed to reward success. This could be accomplished by acting more like a corporate head-hunter where they would be paid after making a successful placement, perhaps a fee anywhere from $3,500 to $10,000 (Neo-phytes, don't gasp at the 10K figure since you'll end up spending that on a couple trips alone). Unfortunately, there are a some men who'd renege on their obligation to the agency or simply use the agency for services. On the other side, you could never trust an FSU based agency with a deposit. 2. Mike also pointed out correctly that many women don't want to move far away: ">the reality is they want to meet someone from Western Europe and not be that far from their homeland.<" This is not often mentioned and flys in the face of the myth that these ladies desparately want to get out of their country. In reality, this may be the biggest obstacle a man from America, Canada, Australia, or New Zealand may face. Europeans have proximity on their side and women feel more comfortable going to a location closer to home. It's also much easier for Europeans to make frequent trips to Ukraine (Russia, etc.). Also, almost all of the Ukrainian women that come to the USA have trouble adjusting. They realize that American streets here are actually not paved with gold. They have to start their careers at rock bottom, doing entry level jobs. Also, the US business world is a savagely competitive, brutal enviroment: it's kill or be killed. The US has closed the gap is now only slightly behind Japan as the hardest working country. Deano Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 2:08:53 PM   Again Buffed and Mike are absolutely correct regarding their points about the young beautiful girls and the FSU woman willing to relocate to the west. Most of the young beauties are recruited. They are sometimes offered by the agency a free professional photo shoot. All they have to do is agree to sign up on the agency. I actually dated a few of these girls because I showed up at the agencies doorstep and asked to meet the girl. I had my own private interpreter outside the agency so we were able to get the real scoop. I was the first foreigner these girls had ever dated. They hadn't been to the agency since they had signed up months ago. These girls were real but they had never considered a relationship with a foreigner. It was very interesting for them to meet me. The dates were pleasant but I moved on. Also, I had lost a couple of girls due to the fact that I was from the USA and was just too far away from home for them. They didn't even give me a chance. So the Europeans do have an advantage in that respect. Also, this destroys the myth that these girls will do anything to leave their country. That is not the case. They would just love for you (the good man they are looking for but can't find in their country) to stay and live in their country. felicedate Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 5:01:23 PM   Buff, you failed to get into head of an average agency owner. Sorry. The truth is that cases when a girl REALLY ends in marrying a guy like you or any other forum member are very-very-very rare. I won't give the real statistics from my agency when it was working actively but I assure everyone that not more than 5% of the girls in general saw a living foreigner coming to meet them. You can just guess how many of these 5% go to the end and move to another country. So if you are trying to present it like all the agencies hate damn Americans(Brits, Germans, Canadians) taking their presious milk-cows away from them - it is bullshit, sorry. By the time a couple first meets it is usually around 4-6 months since the beginning of their correspondence and approximately the same from her coming to the agency. By this time her profile is totally in the middle of nowhere on the fiance.com database and she gets NO NEW LETTERS from the new men at all. Rare exceptions happen but it is 1 letter for 10 girls in a month. Fiance.com prohibits to delete profiles and enter them once again to attract new interest to a girl. No need to tell that in half a year from the time when a girl comes to an average agency, she is nothing more than worked out material, useless +1 in the total nmber of clients. Of course if by this time she is not in serious relationship with some man. The last variant is even more profitable than the so called "letter-maniacs" who correspond with several men at the same time. Actually such couples writing to each other regularly, sending real letters, calling each other and meeting each other here were our favourite clients as in the aspect of profit so in the aspect of moral sattisfaction we were getting knowing that at least two people became needed by each other. I repeat if a girl is for a long time in an agency's database without any real results - it is bad, it is detrimental. It is a minus to our reputation, it is constant pressure from their calls asking "So has anyone written to me lately?". when you answer "no" you feel that she hates you and blames you in bad work, not attentive attitude and whatever. By the way these calls are probably the main reason why I decided to quit this business. And do you think you have any idea about attracting new clients to the agency? NO YOU DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA. Half, and probably the best ahlf of all our clients were attracted to our agency by their friends who already were our clients and met some men from the US, Canada and so on with our help. A new clients sometimes brings one girl with her, just to feel more comfortable. One woman who really met her date with our help brought us more than 10(!) new girls and all of them not cheap and mizerable like most who come reading the advertising in the newspapers but all middle-class, well educated, well-dressed, fit and classy ladies who really attract interest. (sorry for talking about women as about horses). The situation is that only the most desperate girls will come to the agency themselves. Why desperate? Because they gave up their tries to find a mate here ebcause they are less attractive, less smart, less sociable and so on. But those who really have value will be too shy to make this step and only after her good friend tells her how great all this affair is she will agree to try. So the mathematics is simple: one success story brings me ten times more money and ten times more new girls in the database than a dozen of girls "hanging" in the database for more than 5 months. I anticipate a wave of aggression towards this my quite open post but now when I quited this I can afford telling a bit more than one should and being a bit more straight as well. buffed Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 6:00:39 PM   Well gang, here it is: The biggest piece of agency scam garbage you will ever read. This is an excerpt from a letter supposedly written by a Moldovan woman in response to my request for her phone/email address. I have edited my name and replaced it with my user name "buffed" Also, the "bad experience" the writer alludes to at the start of the letter is the same one I detailed at the start of these posts. I had mentioned this as a reason I was understandably skeptical about developing another Moldovan correspondence. While I do take this ridiculous letter with a certain degree of humor, there is one thing I don't find at all amusing. As men corresponding, it's an insult to us all to have some cockroach-vermin agency scammer start using accusations of "greediness." Yeah right. We should just be stupid fools and not question anything. As previously mentioned, I delayed publishing the second Moldovan scam to give Olga and fiance.com the opportunity to investigate the matter. I have been informed by fiance.com management that the offending agencies in Saint Petersburg and Moldova have been either expelled or fined. I'm supposed to believe that this letter was written by a Moldovan woman who is simply listed with this agency to meet a man. Not even an agency employee would have this much zeal in promoting the place, it had to be written by the owner: ">If you had a bad experience with the agency and the lady you corresponded with once, it doesn't mean all the other agencies are one and the same... The Moldavian agency I'm in is the best agency here. There were a lot of couples who found their happiness through the site and this very agency. I know some girls who got married and now live happily in the States with their American husbands and they have kids!!! I am aware of the commission structure of fiancé.com and moreover I'm aware of the fact that by saying that you do not trust the agency you don't know anything about you are trying to find an appropriate excuse for not spending you money on fiancé.com on me. Where is care? What lies behind your gorgeous pictures and beautiful words? Avidity.... think about it "buffed" :- / The agency I'm in has a chat room on fiancé.com where hundreds of Americans chat about how happy they are working with so-and-so people who helped them to find such beautiful women! You may leave your 'Oksana' out of trouble and don't bother her since for now I'm not going to give you my phone #, as I'd like to know you better! Concerning your personal email, well hope you will take into account that it's more convenient for me to send you letters through the site...unless you want me to pay for this ; ))))(I guess you understand that in Moldova they charge money for it), ; = ) well, "buffed", if you are so much conspicuous I can give you the phone number of the agency and you can call and speak with them, but I think it will be so mean...As far as I know there are many Americans who come there to take their wives and everybody seems to trust them...but you...isn't it strange? ? "buffed", it's up to you! But I don't like your ill curiosity and greediness. I don't want to play tricks either... do whatever you want but I'm very upset by this letter of yours!!! Besides the agency gives me each letter you write to me and I know that there are three of them only!!! Only three! buffed Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 6:48:36 PM   Felicdate and forum, Actually Felicdate you needn't worry about your post being interpreted as being aggressive. Actually, the five percent visiting claim is one of the biggest half-truths in the industry and well worth discussion. It is a subject that is not really relevant to this series of posts. However, it is of such importance that it certainly deserves to be addressed under it's own subject line. Therefore, I will begin work on a follow-up letter which will be posted under the subject line of "Exploding the 5% Myth" olegnay Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 7:16:41 PM   buffed, what are you trying to prove here? danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 8:10:53 PM   Olegnay, I think part of Buffed point is that via the fiance.com system it is very much in 'cyber' world. During the normal letter writing process one will have an email address and IP originator(s), one can exchange telephone numbers, one can subsequently talk to the lady, postal addresses can be exchanged and so on. In the brief period that I subscribed to fiance.com, I cannot recall but let's say I made two-way communications with a dozen ladies, I asked every lady for her email address and every one either declined to provide it or didn't answer the question. How does one actually know if he is writing to the lady or an agency, the only evidence the man has that the lady even exists is some pretty pictures and a profile, he doesn't have any contact information whatsoever! And the other thing that occurred to me was what happens when it comes to 'fiancee visa' time. One needs to verify that one actually knows the lady, to provide evidence of communications between the two, this would, under normal circumstances, be copies of emails, with originator and recipient, itemised telephone bills and so on. Under the fiance.com system all one has, certainly in the earlier stages, is some copy & pastes of online communications. I'm confident that a consul may be swayed that such communications may represent the equivalent of emails but if it's a 'borderline' scenario then the scales may tip in the other direction. With the majority of online sites one can access the lady's email address or other contact information directly or this can, is, exchanged during the first few communications. I'm sure that there are ladies on fiance.com that will exchange this information, indeed I know there are, it's just that I didn't meet one of them and consistent communications via agencies will always be open to suspicion and speculation. Martin olegnay Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 8:17:04 PM   martin, usually all girls wit h private email give their contacts in the first letter on fiance.com. Men do the same, then correspondence continues somewhere else, as fiance.com doesn’t edit letters. agency is supposed to give this info too, if you ask lady. If they do not one must report to admin, and move on from that lady. so what are you talking about? one knows exactly if lady s from the agency or not. Talk to her on the phone, get private address, and phone number. nobody confines you to write via fiance.com danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 8:49:35 PM   Olegnay, All I was saying was that from perhaps a dozen ladies none of them were willing to provide an email address. All 12 ladies declared, in their profiles, a reasonable to good knowledge of English, how much does ir cost to open a mail.ru, rambler.ru, hotmail or yahoo email account, absolutely nothing! The proof was in the writing, not based on statistics, Olegnay I appreciate that you are a businessman but where is it stated, on your site, that if a lady declines to provide an email address then they should be reported to admin? Martin olegnay Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 8:53:27 PM   if it says on the ladies profile that she is from the agency, she most probably doesn’t have any access to the computers, but if she is writing that very interested in you, she should give her phone number. or it doesn’t make any sense. if she is afraid talking over the phone in English, phone call with interpreter can be arranged. if she still insist in writing via site only, and she is from the agency, one must submit report in the customer service form. So we can check what is going on with that agency. nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 9:36:54 PM   Olegnay I don't know if it is access or lack of knowledge on how to use a computer? I have used the internet cafe's many times in Kiev, Yalta and Mariupol to check my emails at work when I'm away and also to transact some business. I was on one for 30-45 minutes at a time and it was just a few kopecks for use, though they do charge a little more to print items. I don't remember ever paying more than one grivnas for computer use, It cost more to take the bus there which was two grivnas. So internet access isn't all that difficult. With Larissa it was lack of knowledge on using a computer. I offered to buy her one for her home, but she said it would be difficult to learn on her own and would rather have me teach her here. Now the 64,000 dollar question. I am a trust but verify type of person. What steps to you take to verify a customer complaint here, that a girl will insist on writing only through agency, or will not give personal information etc. What is the investigation process? I think Buffed brings some light to new guys here about the obstacles that one can encounter with the agency/international dating and marriage scene. When I asked Larissa for her personal information, she wittily wrote back my home number,cell number and address is not some mysterious state secret and she gave it to me. If she wouldn't have after a few letters and both of us showing interest to meet in Kiev via email forwarding a red flag surely would have went off in my head. Later Mike danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 9:43:19 PM   Olegnay, Let's go back to step 1, before we even get to exchanging telephone numbers, if she is a non agency lady who only wants to write only via the site, then? And, whilst the profile may state that she is submitted via an agency one may not appreciate that everything must be performed via that agency. Many ladies register with agencies without becoming, effectively, a prisoner of that agency. And when the lady, via the agency, receives the letter, is the guy's contact information, email address, removed thus not allowing her the opportunity to make direct contact. And what 'quality control' exists to ensure that the agency, not fiance.com, doesn't edit the letters such as the guy providing his email address or asking for hers? Please don't think this is a 'squabble' Olegnay but I believe these are relevant points that might be addressed for guys considering subscribing to fiance.com Martin nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 9:48:46 PM   One point Martin does bring up is proof of contact. Email forwarding will be somewhat difficult to prove contact. Also phone calling cards don't give real good proof of communication either. I use a site that features competitive pricing to Ukraine at 10 cents a minute and you can go into your account and get a monthly itemized billing account of how long and how many times you called your lady. This is one of the things that the Embassy in Kiev has asked Larissa to make account of and also personal letters that I have sent to her address. Email forwarding isn't as convincing as a direct email address is. Later Mike philb Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 9:55:22 PM   While I am certainly no fan of agencies, I have to repeat olegnay's question and ask "What are you trying to prove here?". Also please back up your assertion that "almost all of the Ukrainian women that come to the USA have trouble adjusting." Is this your experience? If so, what is it based on? In my mind this statement is no different than the "half truths" of which you accuse the agencies of using. jmoluv Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/12/2006 9:58:55 PM   All you guys ranting about the agency busuness are killing me . You are preaching to the choir. I have been saying all this stuff Buffed has been saying on the Forum for almost two years now and to Fiance .com and all of a sudden it is a big issue . As i have said before , the most beleivable replys are the ones that say they are not interested and good luck in finding your lady. Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum >  Affiliate Agencies of fiance.com: Moldova and Saint Petersburg
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