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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Olga- Here's fiance com's shot at legitimacy Author Post tablefor2 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/19/2006 9:16:41 AM   Buffed, I appreciate your reports. I spent 2 weeks in SPB last summer (I made a report on this forum) and I am contemplating a Ukraine trip for this year. IMHO, your post has exactly the type of info we need to hear. Thank you for the detailed analysis and the extra effort. vanechka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/21/2006 9:35:41 AM   the day this forum got filtered was the day I understood everything... I tip my hat to you Buffed for exposing the reality. Like you I have been in Ukraine yearly for work . Everything you have stated is just a fraction of the debacle wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/21/2006 4:29:58 PM   buffed, how did you get all this info? do you have any proof, so you can be believable? and why are you doing all this, what is your objective? everyone knows there are scams in Ukraine. The info you gave is useless because there will always be new scams, and new scammers. smakme Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/21/2006 10:43:11 PM   I have noticed there is a lot written about this site espacially scamming is that to do with the agency or the girls themselves you have to watch out for....like once they get to your country do they just leave??? buffed Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/23/2006 10:19:45 AM   Tablefor2 Thank you very much for your appreciation and kind words. It would be interesting to learn your experiences and perspectives from SPB. Vanechka Again, thanks for your support. wtrav2 I appreciate your qualifying questions and your effort to present them without slander this time around. You asked several questions so I will address them in order: "how did you get all this info?" Through correspondence, converstations with other western men, visiting dozens of agencies, speaking with the owners, employees, and women members. "do you have any proof" I have multiple examples of contradictory letters in my agency email accounts as detailed previously in this thread. Others reading this thread may have experienced the same thing. I have contacted several women who supposedly corresponded with me but had know idea there profile was listed with an agency. Another American man explained to my friend that his Odessa fiance did not want to remove her profile from the agency because she didn't want to lose the extra income it provided through correspondence commisssions. Perhaps the most stark example of fraud occurred during a meeting with a lady. The dead give-away was her behavior and expression which can only really be experienced through personal, on-the-spot observation. All she was concerned with was me hiring her translator, nothing else. This is an interesting but long story worthy of a separate post. "why are you doing all this, what is your objective" Well to begin with, please see the previous complimentary posts to this thread. This post is about the validity of correspondence and the motivations of the women men they are meeting. Isn't this what the whole thing is about? My "objective" is to relate what I, along with other Western men have observed here in Ukraine. Furthermore, I have already re-couped over $100 in chargebacks refunded to my credit card for fraudulent correspondence. Hopefully, others on this list will acquire the idea and motivation to do the same if they can establish instances of fraud. "The info you gave is useless" Again, please refer to the credit card chargeback refund. More importantly, this information is vital for those involved in correspondence and planning a visit. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/23/2006 12:29:16 PM   hi buffed, there is no question anyone involved in this endeavor will get four scammer letters for each genuine letter (this is said figuratively, not literally). Maybe this surprises and excites you because you're relatively new into this? Your detailed information based on facts might help people who just started and know nothing about dating scams. Even so, none can really use the detailed accounts to bullet proof against scams. If you browse around the forum, there are so many threads about this topic, many are repetitive because people don't bother to read, they fall in the trap first, then they come here and begin a thread complaining about having being scammed. Documenting and proving that scams exist reminds me the theoreticians who spend years to prove that a theorem cannot be proven when everyone knows from experience that it cannot be proven-:) and although in that case doing so is part of science, in dating you do not have to prove that there are scams. I think a much better use of time would be to become accustomed with the fact that there might be more scammers than honest women in this business and develop the skill to tell who is a scammer and who's genuine. Even better a focus on actually finding the right someone and developing a relationship might be of particular help. In any event, you seem to enjoy what you're doing, so go on and perhaps in the process you may discover what you are truly after and even better go after it. disc999golfer999 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/23/2006 7:27:13 PM   Hi Buffed, Thanks for your perserverence in exposing these scam problems. I have finally come to the conclusion that I need to cancel my membership. I am not meeting any serious women and the ones I meet end up cancelling their membership after I either send them a gift, or indicate that I want to go travel to them. I have been a member since the beginning of the year. I already missed the window of time for me to come and visit someone over in Russia. Everytime I tell someone I want to visit them, they quit writing to me. I am not like some of the poeple on this list. Mr. Worldly Traveler can travel to meet 125 women. Sure if I had the $$ and nothing else to do, I could spend a lot of time and money I don't have to do this. I am only allowed 2 weeks vacation in a year, so I couldn't do it. At this time, it is not right for me. Best of luck to everybody! Disc999Golfer999 danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/24/2006 7:51:03 AM   But Disc, with only 2 weeks vacation a year it was hardly likely to happen anyway. If you had met the right lady how were you going to conduct a long distance relationship if you could only see each other once a year? With regards to your other feedback I would agree 99%, a similar experience to the short period when I tried subscribing to fiance.com, a lot of letter writing but bugger all else! lucky_luke Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/24/2006 2:38:42 PM   Hey Buffed, about this "Please note that I never engage in personal attacks, otherwise known as flaming." Back in mar I recall seeing you attack moderator Olga personally about her having left and coming back and that you "knew" why this all transpired. (Which she explained and laid to rest to MY satisfaction) Any guy with half a brain can look at a site and figure out that the "all supermodel" stable of girls on certain sites are a rediculous attempt of a scammer to stir your loins and open your wallet. Why would an Anna Kouhrikova (hope the spelling is correct) type be listed on a begging for attention site in the first place. COMMON SENSE HERE! buffed Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/25/2006 1:25:38 PM   Lucky_Luke You've mixed me up with someone else. I didn't have anything to do with that post/thread to which you're referring. Your apology is accepted in advance. Disc999golfer999 Sorry to hear you're giving up, maybe you can put together a bigger block of vacation at a future date. I completely agree, two weeks isn't long enough to get it done. lucky_luke Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/26/2006 2:04:42 AM   As I don't recall offhand exactly which posting had the "Olga attack" in, I will apologize. Still seems like you are hell bent on discrediting all introduction services. There must be some good ones with good results, aren't there? disc999golfer999 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/26/2006 2:25:51 AM   Martin_UK and Buffed, With only 2 weeks vacation a year it is still possible. You have to meet the right person. I could realistically travel to Russia for 2 trips a year after taking advantage of personal holidays. I had met the right person before, but I made a dumb choice. I figured that because I went to Russia in 1996 (when I got stood up), I had to meet more than 1 woman. Well the attractive one I picked was the fraud scammer. The more realistic one who was not as attractive was the one I should have gone for. I met her through the Scanna service. I just got her address and wrote to her directly. No internet, and no phone communication, and no agency. As far as giving up, I am not giving up on finding a partner. I have been actively writing to Russian ( and foreign) women since 1994, a long time. I corresponded to loads of them, but for a long time I didn't have the $$ to make it happen. Then when I do I go for the attractive one thinking that I could end up with a nice wife, and not the mind-gamming fraud scammer she turned out to be. So with 2 weeks vacation it is possible. I know 2 men who earn 20,000 less than me, and each has the most attractive beautiful wife that the riches man could be blessed with. One man makes only 23,000 a year living in Seattle, WA. He told his girl that he doesn't make much money, and she came on a 3-month deal, and they almost didn't marry. The other guy had his girl come on the student visa, and they didn't need to marry right away. They were able to take it slow, and that was their success. But these 2 men don't have anything to loose. They live from paycheck to paycheck and live in a tiny apartment. As far as women are concerned, I am going to try something I haven't tried seriously before. I am going to find an American Girl. If I am lucky, I don't have to marry and suffer through the legal headache. (I know this lesbian couple and they are happy that the same sex marriage ammendement didn't pass cause - Why all the legal paperwork! They are already a domestic partnership.) I could always take time off without pay to travel, but if I meet a fraud-scammer, then all is wasted. I have a line on a few domest girls and am going to try that route now. Take care, I may be lerking around, but so many of the girls on this list that I corresponded to dissapeared because of their bad intensions. Be cautions! and Good Luck to all! DiscGolfer pakio Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/28/2006 8:27:05 PM   Buffed, Hello again. I am reading a lot here about fake profiles and letters. It has made me think a lot about. But it does not makes sense completely for me. I understand that some agency would post fake profiles of beautiful girls to hook men to join with it. Same thing real state agencies do. But to have someone writing fake letters to you... That's a different thing. Here in Fiancé a VIP member (like me) pays 50$ a month. Last month I sent about 80 letters and received about the same amount of letters and replays (many are very long). I don't think I worth to have a person writing to me to earn a commission. If there is, would be very bad paid. Besides, Most letters are very well written, so the fake writer should be really good. Maybe I am totally wrong. I don't have your experience in this subject, and I am not going to deny that there are fake profiles. But it is an interesting subject, really and I think we should discuss more about it. buffed Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2006 10:21:47 AM   Pakio Good questions, I'm over here and in-the-thick of things and a lot of it doesn't make sense to me either. A lot of questions still remain. One thing that is for certain is that fake correspondence is epidemic, in fact, it may now be standard operating procedure. About the profitability of writing fake letters, it's quite profitable to pay a translator a comparatively good wage for Ukraine. It doesn't take more time for the translator at the keyboard to tap out a quick response letter and modify it slightly to fit the needs of dozens of recipients. If they could get the kind of women the men are interested in writing, there wouldn't be a need to write fake letters. Unfortunately, the number of ATTRACTIVE women interested in finding a foreign man has dwindled to the point where agencies have become desperate. soonermike Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2006 11:03:02 AM   Buffed Could it also be that women are finding out more and more that agencies don't have their best interests in mind? Could they be going to internet cafes and looking on their own? My girl has friends and family throughout Ukraine and Moldova, the ones who went through this site without an agency are happier and had better success than her agency friends. Before I came across my girl, I had so many problems with agency girls I gave up on them. Girls not knowing their profile was published in the west, Letters going unanswered after I sent my personal email and requests for the same. Then there are plenty of cases of profiles through agencies where the girl is already married and moved west. I think the first person to write one of those "Finding a western man for dummies" books in Russian would make a killing! If (God forbid) things don't work out between me and my girl, I still wouldn't seek out an agency girl, you never know if it's legit. I know some guys have had great success with them, but there's too much B.S. for my taste. danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2006 12:58:16 PM   I'm wondering if the number of attractive women looking to leave Ukraine has dwindled, an interesting point to raise. I was in Ukraine for 17 days a little over a week ago and sitting outside the Irish Pub with an American he was going cross-eyed looking at the beautiful ladies and I explained to him that most are not looking to leave Ukraine. I've been out of the 'rat race' for a couple of years or so thus not up to speed as to what is available but an interesting point to make that perhaps the endless stream of beauties can not last forever. My 'silver' rule was always to communicate directly with the ladies to their personal email address even if they were using an electronic translator, once you get the hang of it you can understand what they are trying to say, as another here recently stated, to the effect, 'have control of your own situation' and to hell with the agency online communications, that are not emails, and their translators. My 'golden' rule was to always ask a minimum of 2 questions in the early letter just to establish if I was receiving a personal reply or a 'canned' reply, if less than 75% of the questions are answered then it's not a personal reply, it's more likely a copy & paste. pakio Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2006 2:06:43 PM   Buffed and Martin UK, I see your point. But as I said, I received around 80 letters only last month and only a few of them were quick response. (And those few were from some girls that receive hundreds of letters). Most letters are long and contain personal information, interesting conversation, questions and answers. As I said before, if they are fake, most are very very good. But of course everything is possible. People often do things like a fashion. Maybe the international marriage has been a fashion for some years in FSU and it is downing. About people wanting to leave Ukraine... I lived in Ireland when the Baltic republics joined with the EU. Ireland was one of the few countries that accepted those immigrants, and in a few months, Ireland was full of Estonians, Lithuanians... And there are also many Ukrainians there. My next door neighbours were from Ukraine. (there are also thousands of Portuguese, Italians, Spanish, French...). Thousands of Brits, Germans and Dutch go to live to Spain and Italy. Political and economic situation gets better in FSU. But there are also other reasons. There is always someone eager to leave, to travel, to live in a different country. Specially if the find someone they love... Myself, I moved to Australia to live with a girl I loved. And I am from a rich country... MIKE00 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2006 2:58:01 PM   ou are right martin a friend of mine just spent a fortune sending letters you know to agency at $8 a throw recieved robotic type letters in reply and isn't it amazing he showed me if you answer 1 all of a sudden 10 birds all want to know you in the next hour hmm if its not a scam i dont know what is . JUST AMAZING how they all coincide like racehorses to the winning post come in spinner lol ohh the snake oil of the world just keeps on coming yes . there must be letter writers iam sure ! ive come to the absolute conclusion agencies are all a racket . do as i did meet your girl in the street so to speak its easier than putting out the garbage - 75 words of ruskie a cuppu at the cafe let it been seen ohh gosh hes bought it with a 1000 rbl note and there is your girl ! Ive made comment before we are all mad breaking neck fiance visa years to wait red tape its all a waste of life and i mean only hear 75/80 years at best . iam all for just hmm going thier to live in january next year i mean to say if you have the $$$ no ties where you are ----well change is as good / better than a holiday ! who cares where you live if one has nothing presently and can afford = cigar in tow and go go go . Ive got to have a laugh i see all these guys you know 2/ 3 weeks a year vacation hey reality check your not going to get a bird in that time if you do she will skin you . she'l take your socks , shirt , towell even your brute aftershave and she'l pinch your left over ''rubbers '' on the way out forget the net the scamnmers the ohh i love you letters do as i do ! only one way to get a good bird is cut through the mud go there and meet one and hell if you got a good smile and your looking ok by the time you have reached one the end of the city limits you'l be short on arm space ! YOU will have one on the follow 1 under each arm ! one in the front ! one waiting back at the apartment time you get home you'l have to kiss 4 goodbye ! The percentages / the agencies / the wroughts / you can sidetrack it all just by doing it the old fashioned way the old park bench talk the hello darling your looking absolutely beautiful today ! etc etc ! like somebody posted its no good going there on the cheep russians for most part already broke even they dont want to see another ''bum'' each day. Splash a bit on your lovely treat to to quality ! hell i garrantee id spend $1200 a year just on flowers chocolates each year on mine i must increase that to ( man cant be seen as a cheapskate ay ) Cant say ive not had worries in the very early days of dating russian girls i got ''had'' to everybody does ! but last hmm 28 months same girl get my 3 calls a week spend my 3/5 months a year with her - i dont get cheated no way iam as happy as larry !!!!! Whoops knew a guy called larry he got burnt bad ukrainian tart ohh it really is a worry ukraine must be 40% more the wrought thier than russia i think it was aussieman 41 commented they were spoilt brats yup aussie 50 points mate you hit the bulls eye ! whats that i see above BUFFED ! THE WOMEN getting thin on the deck -hold on mate my lovelies best friend diamond of a girl hmm suit you to the ground id say if you like class. ok description 26 years 5 foot 5 inches very curvy girl libra by star ! which is ok ! hair dirty blond quiet a doll ! she vacant would you like her addy phone number mate - SHE IS PRETTY STRAIGHT i stick with my own dont play up anymore ''sob'' wipe tear from the eye watch lovelies go by ahhh --god ive been loyal for 28 months ( whats come over me ahhhh) BUFFED there is more crumpet out there than ever came out of TIP TOP bakeries just just have to have either the approach or the knowledge of where they hang out ! You have to laugh you see guys in FSU its like they have rehearsed thier lines fumbling to get it all right they are just girls same as anywhere else in the world --just a darn sight more intelligent and sweeter - just approach em as you would girls anywhere . For the desperates -the pick up lines are the same only you put it in russian - its no good dribblin to em in english knowing they cant fathom a word what your on about ! they will think your a dill . treat em as you like to be treated its oh so easy but i dont know iam finding its near impossible to educate the fumblers. It appears all have to fall onto ones own sword first to learn - or lose there wallet hmm WTRAV02 I READ YOUR POSTS MATE they all cry about scammers a good mate of mine once said ( and hes married to russian bird AND living in russia -god bless him hes got brains ) he said a scammer is not a scammer is she's a $30 job in my book he's dead right she desperate / destitute / have you seen these blokes the write ups its like the magna carter its 12,000 words bottom line is ohh sob !! she got me for $30 !!! i mean for god sake the same guy has probobly just bought 3 beers and 3 cartons milk and spent $31 yet he'd sit in front of pc condem the poor bitch scammin $30 for a feed ! give over ay ! REAL SCAMMER IS NOT THE $30 GIRL its not the $60 GIRL its yuri & and anton with the greasy moes and the leather jackets hitting you up for $500 with a pile of pics beside em and 3 x pc's runnin hot. Look at us guys look what we earn - the class they display to us of course they are going to get you for $30 / $50 they have to have the intuition of a bildge rat to survive from moment born . its the nature of the beast . IF you can afford to head to russia 2/3 weeks you can afford caviar its no good commin the pensioner wretoric ! ohh iam only on $45k a year ( good head to the zoo on the bus ) stay in the country . your only kidding yourselves if you think 45k a year danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2006 4:04:38 PM   Pakio, Of those 80ish letters you received, how many of them just generalised about the weather, their city, their day, their work, their family, was it evident in the letter that it had been written that day or could it have been stored on a computer for weeks or longer and just dragged out with a few minor adjustments before being sent? Martin P.S. Whereabouts in Australia, I lived in Melbourne for a few weeks before relocating to Adelaide where I lived for about 4 months some 16 years ago? pakio Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2006 4:56:20 PM   I have been re-reading the letters in my inbox. I must correct myself, there are more than 80 letters, but the period is also longer. Apart from introduction letters (I received many first introductions), most letters I have are fully conversational. They ask questions answer my questions, comment my last letter, talk about things. If they are canned letters, they received much make up. Not all of them, but most of them. I received a couple of letters that didn't made sense, and I didn't answer. they were letters from girls that receive hundreds of letters. I must say that I do use the copy/paste tool too. I do write personal letters, but if I have to write about the same event to several people, I do use it with some paragraphs. I wonder if the quality of the reply is not proportional to the quality of the letter you send? it also must have to do with the interest that you create in your correspondant, don't you think? Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Olga- Here's fiance com's shot at legitimacy
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