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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > army of brides Author Post wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2006 7:40:27 AM   I think Brandy&seven's post is revealing that the cheapest product is not always the winner product. Not paying per letter only guarantees you're not out a big sum of money before you realize it doesn't work for you. However, many people would not mind paying a premium for useful services especially if the agency has a solid reputation. People want agencies to provide them with tools and options to help them find ladies and communicate with them. People don't want agencies to control the means of communication. There are ways for agencies to make money the honest way not the crooked way. Live video chat has got to be a great service. Actually seeing that there is a real person on the other side and being able to communicate real time sounds a great benefit. As the number of scammers and scams is reaching the stratosphere, agencies that verify ladies and offer advanced services to bride seekers may assume an edge. I think all the concern and discussion posted on this forum during the last years about scammers and the difficulties of contacting women would leave no doubt about this. danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2006 7:53:58 AM   Being affiliated with a small Ukrainian agency they charge per letter, perhaps the man or the lady may pay, but there is little other option than for them to charge by this method. Each letter needs to be translated and the staff member needs to be paid for that, they can not have a staff member sitting in the office, on a salary, to translate letters that may never arrive and on the other hand they cannot charge a flat monthly fee because then, depending upon the number of letters written and translated, the translator may need to be paid in excess of that monthly fee thus outgoings would exceed incomings. They have to charge 'pay as you go' to stay in business and this way the guy only pays for what he uses and not an increased monthly fee that he may not utilise in full. olegnay Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2006 10:10:58 AM   so Martin, agency pimps their ladies? danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2006 10:38:01 AM   OLegnay, If you want to play as be an ignorant p1llock then let us play your game. The agency I refer to translates letters that are sent to and transmitted from the ladies personal email addresses, at no time did I make mention of, or even hint to the effect of, their business practices being similar to those of fiance.com whereas to make personal contact with a lady, via so much as email, seems to be an achievment in itself. GeminiDreams Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2006 12:11:45 PM   Hmmm Its interesting to want to rely on agencies to meet women. Of course the women would have more interest in moving and marrying foriegn men but many are just out for a good time or part you with as much money as they can. I work 9 weeks on and have 4 weeks off. I spend this time in Kiev where I have very nice girlfriend. I met her on a local website. There are thousands of girls listed on local websites who are seriously looking for love and marriage and are not scammers as they are not targeting foreign men. If they are interested in meeting they will give you their phone numbers without any third party interference and you can talk to them. I met another guy who just places adverts with photos in local papers and gets inundated with girls. Its worthy getting an understanding of cyrilic as its easier finding your way around if you can read signs and it helps to be able to navigate Russian language introduction sites. Try a google search on знакомства Of course if this is too hard throw money at agencies but at the end of the day you have to develop a relationship with a real girl not a picture and nondesript emails. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2006 2:28:33 PM   GD - I found my wife of three years on this web site, fiance.com, so I know the site and its methods are for real. I never had any interest in learning Russian because I have so many other things to do and because my intellectual curiosity spans beyond the realm of learning a language for the sole purpose of being able to read the local websites in Kiev. My wife is very fluent in English, an asset that has proven to be priceless in her adjustment to her new life, education and future career in the United States of America. When I was 20, I was also fond of learning phrases in other European languages so that I would be able to strike a conversation with international chicks hopping that conversation would help getting laid. Because my interests changed since I grew up, I forgot my half ass, chick picking language skills and focused isntead on other, more productive and intellectually satisfying activities while living my life with the woman whom I love. To this end, this web site helped me achieve my goal. danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2006 4:48:21 PM   Stop making me laugh Bill :) wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2006 5:46:41 PM   :) Laughing never killed anyone Richard unlike lions for example:) danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2006 6:20:11 PM   Bill, I used to browse adverts in local papers many a year ago, kind of around the time I was buying my first property 'real estate' and I needed to furnish it, but couldn't really afford to, at knock down prices. I can only therefore presume that the guy that browses such adverts for female companionship (I'm being polite about it there!) at knock down prices would browse similar adverts. That said there is a lot to be said for avoiding the agencies and indeed websites that pay, per letter, affiliate agencies but without any ladies of their own, I can't recall ever communicating and subsequently meeting with a lady via an agency and, as you suggest yourself, find yourself an English speaker which it was I always tried to practice and have achieved also. I do not recommend agencies but I am merely affiliated with one through marriage, and boy could I tell some stories, if fiance.com worked for you Bill then good on you but in the short period that I subscribed to fiance.com I didn't even manage to exchange a single email address with a lady despite my attempts and despite fiance.com's claim of 'unlimited emails'..... bullsh1t! Adman Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2006 7:20:25 PM   Martin There is not a problem paying for a good service. Unfortunely paying an agency more money does not gaurantee the womans true intentions. You know that from women in your wifes agency. I think common sense tells us that when money is included in the mix, reality becomes blurred. Its a bit like giving a woman a tip for a lap dance. It may improve the service but it dont make it any more real. Just seems that way danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/20/2006 2:54:28 AM   Adman, I just don't go for the idea of having a third party present in a relationship whether it be translating the letters or interpreting on a dinner date, 'two's company, three's a crowd' as they say, it's nothing to do with the money. danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/20/2006 3:00:19 AM   One tip though, The agency I refer to is as busy as anything at the moment and because, it seems, the majority of N. Americans choose only to travel to Ukraine during the summer but during the winter the agency may as well close down. To be successful in this game one has to try something different, try travelling to Ukraine during the winter, it seems there are N. Americans wherever one looks there at the moment but during the winter one could be the only guy there. boredfukka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/20/2006 5:46:10 AM   Adman Oh right so the ladies DO use the translator then, because they need to? I had a letter from a ukrainian girl and her profile says she is an actress for theatre and TV there. She has only very basic english and when I asked her why she did not call me after I had given her my phone number, she said it was because she could not speak english very well and needed to use the agency for translating. So, to me it is either a) true or b) pretending so that I keep writing letters THROUGH the agency and have to pay for them each time. So, now I am going to target women who write to my inbox who have a high english level (fluent or almost fluent) and see what happens then. Gladiator, ok I understand now why you queried my username, but I made it because I am fed up of hanging around my town where there are not many chicks to pick up and this is why I am hoping to find one elsewhere using these websites. Maybe i will check out fiance then if it is easier to get their email addresses and phone numbers than army's boredfukka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/20/2006 5:55:37 AM   Martin I was in Lvov in December...courtesy of Ryanair's Rzeszow airport in south east poland :)) and a train and taxi ride. On the other side of the border actually, I took a taxi and the guy said he during the day (what I understood from my limited russian anyway) that he was a police officer during the day and a taxi driver at night... he then during the trip to Lvov offered me a ukrainian sim card, which worked!! LOL It was snowing in Lvov and it was freezing man. I was freezing my b***x off! I only stayed two nights. Adman Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/20/2006 5:59:15 AM   Quite agree with you Martin about the third party. Unless she was particularly HOT and didnt mind sharing, not hogging all the blankets. With all the N.Americans swarming over there, do you think the idea of chasing FSU women will be all over in a few years? boredfukka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/20/2006 6:13:14 AM   I've just read some more emails from a few ladies I have been corresponding with through army of brides. Typical response of I do not give out my phone number to an unfamiliar man and another who said she would have difficulty in understanding and she prefers to have her letters translated throught the agency (although her profile says her english is middle not basic). So, I have given up on this agency now after spending about Ј80 on it to see if I could get anyone to call me, which they haven't. My experience of the agency is that you will never get any information out of them. There is a button you can press to order their addresses though, but whether it is their real address or not, who knows. So, I was thinking maybe to use fiance, but there are some people on here who say that is a scam too. danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/20/2006 7:03:53 AM   With all the N.Americans swarming over there, do you think the idea of chasing FSU women will be all over in a few years? I started the process around year 1998, if you could realise the differences now to how it was then then you'd probably share my opinion that it will just become more and more commercialised with more and more guys jumping on the bandwagon. It is now reputed, within FSU circles, that every western guys seeks an FSU lady and many of these ladies are just waiting for the guy to get off the plane to take him shopping etc. and as each year passes this commercial trend will get worse and worse until such a time as guys start thinking with their brains rather than their penises. I would estimate that a very small number of the guys currently travelling to FSU actually find happiness or what they believe will be waiting for them at the other end and will return demoralised to either give up or try again before giving up etc. I recently witnessed two Americans being taken advantage of, the first guy got taken on the expensive shopping trip on day 1 but was sharp enough to tell her to fock off and dump her, the second guy got taken for USD1000's and didn't even realise he was being taken and kept reitterating to the interpreter (my wife) that he believed he was falling in love, focking idiot! wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/20/2006 8:38:05 AM   Richard, your point well taken, maybe I am one of few lucky outliars who found more than they ever dreamed. However, implying that because you did not have much luck on fiance.com, this means the fiance.com type web site is garbage is hardly justified. There are many reasons why one may not have "luck". I have explained in the past what what these reasons might be and will not go over this again. Suffice to say that I wrote to four girls featured on fiance.com in the summer of 2002. One was my now wife. One did not answer and I wrote to fiance.com and asked them why. At the time, fiance.com (dating-ru back then) guaranteed a reply either yey or ney from all girls. It turned out that the woman had been removed from the site for whatever reasons. Another woman from Latvia answered and seemed perfectly legit, we exchanged a few snail mail letters (she did not have email and her English was below average). I was not having my letters translated, she pointed that it was trouble for her to translate my letters and asked that I have my letters translated. I did not and she stopped writing, which was ok for me. The fourth woman answered a month after my first email and said that she was on vacation, she was sorry she did not reply immediately, etc. I ditched her of course, I already had correspondence with my now wife. At the time, fiance.com was a pay per letter service with the first letter with one picture attached free of charge and as I said guaranteed reply. If you wanted the letter translated, they charged for translation and they also charged for additional pics. I only sent translated letter to my now wife because she was the one I was most interested in, and continued to send her translated emails. She had put English - 4 on her profile while she was more like 9. When I spoke to her on the phone first time I was in shock. Her English was very good and even her accent was slight, nothing like Russian accent. She said that she was not confident about her English and preferred to undarrate than overrate .. After the first phone call, she encouraged me to send her emails directly to her perosnal email in English. Yes I first decided to write to my now wife purely based on looks and her young age (19 at the time) since all I saw on the profile was four pictures that blew me away. There was very little written in the profile and the info was even inaccurate (it said that she was from Penza, Russia while she was from Ukraine - mistake of fiance or the agent). I had relatively good experience with other web sites as well although I found my wife in less than two months of search. One thing I want to point out is that women do pay attention at men's looks, age, and stability as demonstrated by genuinely written letters, and most women are smart they can tell the fakes on the first phone call or even the first letter. I saw on men's forum what my competition was and I rated myself in the top 1-2%. It is foolish to expect that anyone with average looks, old age, and garbage letters / personality would be able to dig gold. Of course I agree with Richard that most foreigners end up being taken advantage. In my mind, this is part of the natural selection process that dictates the fittest survive. At the end, to be successful you must have some personal strengths aside from your nationality. Otherwise, you will naturally attract those who are seeking a paved with gold path to a green card. GeminiDreams Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/20/2006 1:49:06 PM   wtrav02 my point is that there are alternatives. It took me a whole week to teach myself cyrilic and enough to understand the local sites. I can now read a lot more than I can speak because I go there so often. I never have any trouble going around Kiev or Odessa for that matter without an interpreter. I have been going out with my girlfriend for 2 years. She is studying to be a dentist, speaks reasonable English and already has a green card although Im not sure why anyone would want to Live in the USA. She has never been with an agency and was not searching for a foreigner although she had plans to go back to the US ater getting her degree. I have met a number of women by such means. Most spoke excellent English but as in all meetings not all are what you want or expect. But it is pretty simple, they either reply or dont and usually they give their phone numbers when you ask and you can talk to them before arrival. Best of all there are so many to choose from, For Kiev at least 100 new listings a day fo 18 - 30 yo on just one site. If its too hard though just keep forking out the $ for agencies. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/20/2006 4:04:38 PM   GD, read a little more carefully. I am married for a few years now. I do not fork $ for agencies now neither did I when I was searching for my bride. I paid four years ago fiance.com 4 letters plus translation, it came to less than $200. Perhaps I spent 300-400 more on other web sites. Given your circumstances, perhaps you do not understand that agency costs is a mere 5% of your total costs to bring a woman to the US and marry her. Travel expenses is the biggest cost (assuming not going through an agency), BCIS fees, attorneys, repeat efforts (if the first one goes down the toilet), etc. To me the service that an honest agency offers is well worth the little money they charge. Of course there are stupid people, dreamers with no real brains, who pay money to agency scams. What can you tell about these people, it's easy to avoid scams, it's been said so many times, they see the red flags, they still fall in the trap. Even the money such stupid peoiple pay to agencies is money well spent. Stupid people are taught useful life lessons. Either way it's worth it. 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