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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > NASFAN6 SPECIAL Author Post wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/9/2006 11:22:31 AM   Nasfan, your last post deserves super special attention, in quotes are your own statements: “Bush is and always has been some what wimpy” => agreed except for the word “somewhat” “He started to kiss the liberal ass” => add: and the liberal p**** ::)) “A large majority. Hell if Bush had real stones, he would have held up his pen and said, does anyone understand Veto? Then tell me Wtrav what kind of majority you have." => Dear nasfan, I hope you realize why the people of the republic elected a democratic majority in the House of Representatives and the Senate. Scratch head, scratch head … because the people decided that they want the legislative body to propose new legislative iniatives for approval to the president. I would love it if Bush would veto everything the dems propose. That would be the easiest ticket to a democratic victory in the presidential elections of 2008. Your fanaticism and inability to accept a fair and square democratic win (wail, wail, kleenex … kleenex, whine, whine), does not let you see the reality, i.e. both parties are trying to prove they can be bi-partisan in order to win the many votes of people who want the government to take care of the business of the people not the business of corporate lobbyists and special interests. Both Bush and Pelosi got the message. Did you? “Look at the state ballot initiatives across the country, gay marriage got shelled in every state. Maybe the Libs now will try not to hide behind the court about abortion? Hardly it's their sacrament. If the libs had balls they would put it on state ballots and it would get creamed in most every state. No this nation will never again regain great status until they give up the reckless and wanton murder of the unborn.” => We’re just not stupid like those republican governors who put banning abortion on a ballot only to see their initiative get crashed and now libs around the country have made the results of the ballots in those two states their flag for abortion rights::))) nasfan, it’s not so much about @@ as is about smarts and we outsmarted the @@ :::)))) “Dems whine all the time. I didn't hear one cry about voter impropriety from on republican. Oh that's only used when the liberals lose. No Wtrav, just a blip on the radar screen. Looking at ballot initiatives I see the country is mostly conservative and that rest's well with me.” => Well, you conservatives need something for relief I guess … you can’t keep crying and buying Kleenex for ever::)), you have to think somewhat positively, yeahh most of the country is conservative and most of the elected democratic representatives are conservative, take it one step further the whole democratic party is conservative, even Alec Baldwin is conservative, the whole universe is conservative, case closed (box with Kleenex also closed:::))) “Pelosi and Chuckie Schumer will destroy the last of the libs coming these next couple of years. Go ahead an impeach Bush, I don't think you'll get it done. I really hope you do, that will expose what the libs are all about. Illegal contracts, Hell Clinton gave away no bid contracts. Secrets to the Chinese, shall we go on?” => blah blah as always unsubstantiated accusations against Clinton ... yeah I agree dems will not impeach Bushy because as you said he’s constantly kissing ass and p**** :::))) “Like I've said in the past, I'm a Reagan conservative, didn't like Bush I or Bush II much. I believe America is a Providential country and until it returns to that, and not one that caters to the european way, it will be a mess.” => yeppp now that you lost get back to your libertarian books, Bush lost not the libertarians, so no reason to be a loser::)) Reagan conservative???? You mean the failed actor who proved much better acting skill as a politician??::)) Consider this: In the polls, republicans were caught running on the chase::::)))) and this: Nancy Pelosi + Harry Reed and it only began ::::)))) wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/9/2006 11:30:38 AM   jetmba, this is very well put ... so you expected to lose and lost ... I guess that makes you losers who can expect their loss::)) From what I realize, nasfan finds relief in thinking that the whole universe is conservative at the end, therefore who wins does not matter::)) also, he's a libertarian Reagan conservative fan, hence Bush's loss and subsequent kissing liberal ass and p**** does not matter:::))) You, on the other hand, are a more analytical person. You need your statistics and historical evidence to convince yourself that no big deal, nothing happened:::))) I say again to both of you this time: In the polls, republicans were caught running on the chase:::))) and Nancy Pelosi + Harry Reed is only the beginning::)) danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/9/2006 11:30:53 AM   Greetings wtrav02 :) wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/9/2006 11:33:00 AM   Greetings to you as well, we're still having a party here, and the republican whinning makes it even better:::)) danny3777 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/9/2006 12:34:02 PM   Hi wtrav02, No doubt 'Wyatt Twerp' will find something to complain about regarding us merely exchanging complimentaries to each other :) jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/9/2006 9:29:07 PM   I am also pretty much libertarian on most issues. I also recognize trends when I see them and I therefore, don't make too much. A president - ANY PRESIDENT - is in the forefront taking potshots from all detractors for six years by his second midterm congressional election. OF COURSE the party in power tend to lose seats - as my figures pointed out. It happens for ALL two term presidents. It happened for Clinton, Reagan and Nixon (the last three presidents to serve two terms). Getting excited over it is as foolish as getting excited when a traffic light turns green. You KNOW its going to happen. But if it still thrills you... hey, then be thrilled. As far as impeachment is concerned - certainly NO attempt will go further than it went with Clinton. In Nixon's day, just the dishonor of FACING impeachment was enough to make a president resign. Clinton puched the shameless barrier a lot further, knowing full well that there were enough Senators who would aqvoid the mess for the sake of the country, regardless of their contempt for Clinton, and not allow a guilty verdict. Bush can trust that the same ultimate rationality with prevail again. Bush, like Clinton, may very well be impeached by the Congress - but he will never be convicted by the Senate. Waves fall, stoplights change color, the sun sets and rises - these things are constants. In the sixth year of a presidents two terms he tends to lose a great deal of seats in the Congress and Senate. Thats a constant too. Don't let it excite you too much. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/10/2006 12:33:21 AM   I see a great opportunity for the democratic party to prove they can take care of the business of the people in the next two years and place a bid with great chances to elect a democratic president in 2008. Remember nothing really got done the last six years. For you historian buff, the Republican Congress will be known in history books as the do nothing Congress. It's easy for dems to outdo the GOP for that matter if dems keep focus on what matters to the people. I also believe a democratic Congress will put a stop to the corporate bonanzas of the last years including drilling for oil anywhere you want and stem cell research seems it's a go (MO a conservative state by all means voted yes - where is nasfan??::)) It was a great victory in all fronts that can pave the way for a presidential victory in 2008 in order to have all 3 in the bag and be able to re-shape the country to its new glory. Dems are aware of the opportunity and will keep focus, and if they don't we, the base, will remind them what their charter should be. P.S. you're all libertarians, but very few put their vote where their mouth is. jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/10/2006 6:08:09 AM   The Republican Congress actually accomplished quite a bit. Cuts in corporate taxes, which affect capital expenditure decisions like building new plants etc., take YEARS to show results. For whatever reason shortsighted people like to tie an administrations economic policies to the conditions that prevail currently and that just makes no sense. If an administration is successful in encouraging new plant construction. for instance, that plant construction will occur over some period. The planning and construction may take five or more years, extending well into the next presidents administration. Why then, do we associate the increased EMPLOYMENT that results, with the new president who takes over? Shouldn't it more fairly be attributed to the guy who set the plant construction into motion? The new president may have radically different policoes that ultimately result in closing that very same newly constructed plsnt down, yet for the short term, he gets credit for all the people who now have new employment and opportunities brought on by the policies of the last president. People hate business. Nobody like the idea of somone making more than they do without doing as much physical labor etc. Business gets a lot of bad press. But business is also responsible for bringing you nearly every physical material comfort that you enjoy. The variety and availability of food you find in the grocery store and all the creature comforts you enjoy, that we call "prosperity" are brought to you by business. Ony look to the Former Soviet Union of 10 years ago or so to see conditions in a society where business has effectively been shut down. But it takes YEARS to build a business and YEARS to set the economic policies into place that ALLOW business growth. Taxation, on the other hand is not only immediate, but it can actually be retroactive. An administration can step in and announce huge new tax increases and immediately "projections" are made extending ridiculously off into coming years (based on economies that haven't happened yet, and likely WON'T happen as those same economies react to the new taxes) that seem to show where a "surplus" or a "balanced budget" is supposed to occur. I remind you to always listen for the word "projection". That word is a fantasy word and means that in future years if tax incrases don't affect the economy (which makes absolutley no sense as taxes ALWAYS affect the economy), then wonderful thing will happen. So "balanced budgets" and "surpluses" based entirely on fantasy filled future plans grab all the press headlines and make presidents promising such things look good during the here and now. Clinton took advantage of both situations mentioned above. He benefitted from the economic growth (new constuction etc.) brough about by the economic decisions of Reagan and Bush Sr.. And he proposed (and enacted) huge tax increases with fantasy filled projection out into the future. As a president, he wasn't much. Why don't libertarians vote libertarian? Because the party isn't strong enough yet to offer a viable candidate. It makes little sense to throw your vote away and let a liberal win, when a conservative might be the better choice. Why isn't the Libertarian Party stronger? Because years ago, Republican and Democrat controlled governmental bodies enacted matching funds legislation which supports candistates that get a certain large percentage of the vote (a certain percentage is needed to qualify for those matching federal funds). That move vitually assured a two party system with the same two parties (Republicans and Democrats) as no upstart party without immediate overwhelming popularity can qualify for those millions and millions of dollars to adequately compete. TV spots, etc. cost money. And Libertarians by nature don't like the entire idea of federal matching funds anyway. We believe in as little governmental interference or involvement as possible. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/10/2006 8:15:04 AM   The Republican Congress accomplished nothing. I am amazed by how little you know jetmba about the economic topics that you discuss in order to prove your point. Tax cuts benefited the 1-2% of the population and only have negative long-term impact on the economy. They were giveaways, paybacks, and political dividends to the rich, the lobbyists and the corps. Expenditures to build plants? how many new plants were built in America since Bush took over? I only know of massive plant closings. Instead there was a flee of manufacturing capacity and business in general from America to Asia and other countries. We're fast becoming a health care economy since the only sector that is really growing based on strong fundamentals is the business of taking care of the old and the sick. Free money was printed (take a look at the money supply metrics) and was used to build housing for speculative purposes, which led to the boom in the housing market and the bust that we're now experiencing. The housing boom sustained the economy at decent levels of growth and employment the last years, but it was a gimmick. It was much like the boom in the stock market during the late nineties, it was not based on fundamentals. People were fired from real businesses because of declining economic activity and were re-hired in construction, mortgage businesses, and many were simply occupied in the buy and sell trade of properties that led to the dubling and tripling in housing prices. 50% of the growth and more than 50% of contributions to new employment the last six years came from the housing sector (tells you how diversified the economy is under Bush). Now what? the housing game is over and it's going the other way and you can see economic growth rates are already tanking. The economy is now growing by less than 2% and if you understand how to read leading indicators of future economic activity, you should understand that we're heading to a recession. The Bush economy was also assisted to stay afloat by purchases of foreign goods paid with printed paper from the mint of the Federal Reserve. Our debt alone doubled during the Bush administration the last six years. They managed to double in 6 years the debt that was slowly building for decades. The federal budget deficit is totally out of control causing the debt to go even higher with no improvement in sight. Aside from the irresponsible Bush administration, The Republican Congress is to blame as well. They inititate, oversee and approve expenditures and appropriations. This republican administration has outspent any of the previous administrations (republican and democratic) proving that they are a propaganda machine. Who is more liberal than the republicans?? they are the biggest spenders and to make it worse not only they spend more, they also spend on everything else other than on matters that are of benefit to the middle class. Where are your libertarian principles?? how can you support an administration that spends so heavily and relies solely on public funds to fuel the economy? Republicans further relied on debt mainly funded by the Chinese central bank to cover up their economic mess. Do you read economic news at all?? China announced the diversification of their 1 trillion strong foreign exchange reserve. They're putting the brakes on dollar purchases, which will affect the green buck structurally, i.e. a permanent adjustment versus other currencies. These republicans have screwed up our country in so many ways and our decendands will take the stick in the ass and blame all of us for letting this happen. In the meantime, continue to write your theories about the Republican Congress and Bush and so on. Thankfully, the majority of the American people do not think like you and nasfan. Oh I agree it will take years to see and feel the full results of the Bush policies because you ain't see nothing yet out of the mess the republicans have created. You're bashing Clinton constantly, but Clinton worked with the Republican Congress on welfare reform and other issues and was a moderate Democratic president who worked hard for his country, a real patriot. We saw real economic growth that stack during his presidency. The initiatives that were put into play created the tehnological boom of the nineties because democrats are forward thinkers. How can convince anyone that you are the party of progress when your base believes in creationism and demands that current school books that discuss evolutionism be banned!!! if you were let to govern this country for a while longer, you would convert our country to a religious dictatorship not much different than the islamic dictatorships of the middle east. jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/10/2006 9:33:56 AM   I don't read the slanted journals that YOU clearly read. And its also clear that you tend to muddle complex issues. Religious dictatorship? Uh... excuse me but don't we actually need a state religion for that to occur? That's just an alarmist charge (typical among liberals). The Chinese Central Bank has been covering the "economic mess"? The Chinese are low cost producers who are buildiing up their own economy. They have netted billions of dollars as they build and they have invested it back in the US. That's not surprising. Their investments are well regulated. Attempts to buy certain oil interests have been thwarted. There have been plant closings to be sure. We live in a world economy and when local wages (including all the associated government required costs) are outlandish, companies are forced to look elsewhere to produce cost competitive products. Every liberal theorist I've ever heard of completely ignores the market place. Low priced goods sell. Higher priced good rot on the shelf. If a producer has to stay in business and CAN produce overseas, he will. He has no choice. Taxing investors strips whatever incentive they have to keep jobs in this country. There is no Democrat revolution, for the simple reason that Democrats have no new ideas except increasing taxes. Nobody voted FOR the Democrats. they voted against an unpopular war. The Democrats received no mandate with this election (thank goodness nobody is saying that yet either). Clinton was anything but a patriot. Clinton performed short term for the polls ignoring long term investments and simply giving us fantasy projections based on higher taxes. trad - you need to start reading some better quality propaganda. jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/10/2006 9:47:50 AM   While I appreciate the fact that we are keeping a civil debate (so far) and it is confined to this single thread (gets irritating to others when these discussions are touched on in EVERY thread), this is really not a topic for a Russian Women's Forum. Now I realize trad, that you are married to and therefore not looking. As such, it might not be surprising that your focus is not on that subject. Mine is however. And I prefer not to discuss these issues. Frankly, we will never agree. I think we both know that. And our disagreement is likely to EVENTUALLY extend into other topics, which I would just as soon avoid. With that - I am signing off on this particular economic topic, while we are both being mature about it. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/10/2006 2:34:46 PM   You have it all wrong jetmba including my nick:) global competition must be fair to all otherwise it doesn't work. It's very basic economics, the price of labor in China is fixed by the dictators there as is the exchange rate, this does not provide the conditions for a free global market economy. Hmmm interesting though that republicans have aligned power and ideas with the Chinese communists ... they're building their country ... republican politicians and their lobbyists are simply going wherever the money is and they don't give a rat's ass how the money is made. The sweat shops of China where people work 7 days a week 12 hours a day for less than 4% of American wages is not fair competition to American labor. I also enjoy buying cheap electronics and seeing prices on the shelves remaining fixed or going lower. However, how long can it last? not too long and it only benefits the very rich and the corps. The kind of patriots that you are republicans, you bash your fellow hard working citizens, and label them uncompetitive, yet you're not offering a solution. At the end of the day capital moves efficiently and it will leave this country and let's see where all of you will end up. You like it or not, Democrats have received the mandate to govern. Nancy Pelosi is the speaker of the house and Harry Reed is the majority leader in the U.S. Senate. No more republican BS will go through and investigations will occur and eveyone soon will know the kind of corrupt party the GOP is. GOP lost because of the war, the corruption within their own party, and the bad state of the economy. This is what was said at the exit polls. P.S. Clinton was the greatest American president since JFK everyone knows it, no need to say anything more about this. jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/10/2006 8:55:07 PM   Damn. Its not the first time I've inadvertantly called you trad. I did it way back when. (For what its worth, trad, if you are reading this - sorry...). I remain determined however regarding making no more comments on this subject, despite the strong temptation - especially regarding your LAST line.... wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/10/2006 9:50:37 PM   ... that's because you've got nothing else in the bag ... :) it's ok go back to the subjects that you're more familiar with. Good luck in your search anyway. nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/11/2006 7:35:18 AM   Clinton the greatest president? Now who really practised voodoo economics. As for the plant closings, since I live close to Louisville, Ford is struggling there and many others of their ilk. Common denominator. Unions! Most of the plant closings that have happened in KY, and Indiana are Union controlled labor. Two large steel mills in this area are expanding, one owned by Arcelor and the other Mittal. Toyota in Princeton and Georgtown expanding, what is their common link, NO UNIONS. All the libs have brought is socialism and tearing apart the blue collar work force. That's the guys remember who you stand up for. The reason the competitive inequality is because of so much government control in the market place(OSHA,EPA,etc The list is long. Another staple of the socialist party. The 1-2% you claim that is getting wealthier is also paying the lions share of the taxes by percentage, but the middle class is going to get hammered now. That's also the little guy your socialist party stands for. As for investigations, who going to investigate Harry Read, William Jefferson, funny he was running for re-election and we ran our bum out of office. The culture of corruption. The dems have their own hall of shame when it comes to corruption. If you ever run out of stamps just call Dan Rostenkowski, he can hook you up. The really bizarre thing now is Alcee Hastings heading up the Intelligence comittee. Funny didn't Pelosi vote to have him impeached as a Judge? Wasn't bribery that got Hastings canned? You wouldn't think Hastings could get a security clearance to sit on that comittee. Only in the liberal world. Thats hypocrisy. The most truest form of fraud. Yep SanFranNan,will make sure any democratic Hawk will not get a position of power on any comittee. The real underlying evil here, and I hate the conspiracy theories and the one that drives me crazy and my wife, is the amnesty for illegals. I can see that the libs will give GW his way on that one. Scary to think the possibility that all the time GW was out for other candidates, he was stumping his guest worker bullshit and pissing off the base. The do nothing congress, yep maybe, but then we have had our share of do nothing congresses going back to Carl Alberts days of being the Speaker. Clinton wasn't a great President and Neither was JFK he didn't have time, though JFK understood the economic world far better than Clinton did. Psssst. Wtrav, guess what JFK did, he proposed legislation to cut taxes and actually signed the bill without having to be drug screaming and kicking to the signing. Now that's not in the contemporary liberal play book. Yep, JFK would be run out of todays democratic party just like Lieberman. Oh we forgot, Joe, who hammered Moveon.orgs main man in the election. Hmmm, I wonder if some Senatorial payback is coming? So much for that majority in the senate. That's a little convoluted right now. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/11/2006 1:00:31 PM   I see the torch has been passed from one republican to the other ... Union labor has nothing to do with what you said, please learn first, talk next! Toyota and Honda pay similar wages to their workers to those paid by the Big 3 otherwise they would not be able to get anyone to work for them. In fact, Toyota gives many more benefits to their work force because they are determined to hire and retain the best in their industry. Observe companies in service industries as well. Google for example allow their employees to spend 20% of their time on any project they wish no questions asked. It is called creative time. It’s foolish to think that wage rates make such a big difference in today's economy ... What I will agree with you is that some union rules are inflexible and compromise productivity without real benefits to union members. However, GM’s experimental, all robotic plant in Brazil that encompassed the latest techniques that enhance productivity was a complete failure. Was it due to wage rates? The failure of American manufacturing is due to bad management from the top, short-term profit mentality, and under investment. It’s not a matter of working more for less, rather it’s a matter of working smarter (in Japan wage rates are higher when adjusted for prices). Republican ideas comprise the perfect recipe to impoverishing the working class. Regarding your mumbo jumbo about corruption, I only have one word for you: Jack Abramoff perhaps you’re familiar with that gentleman who is now behind bars since you’re form the area where he conducted most of his business. You have no arguments at all. Listen to yourself, you say yes the Republican Congress did nothing, but the dems did so and so. You support a party that does nothing but waste taxpayer money and then you tell me that you’re a libertarian ... how can I have any respect at all for libertarians who claim they’re the party of principle when they so adamantly support the unprincipled?? Who said the dems do not support tax cuts?? This is part of GOP propaganda, scary tactics ... dems want tax cuts for the working class who will spend the money domestically, not the richest of the richest who take the money elsewhere wherever money produces the best returns. Finally your last comments only say that the democratic party is a pluralistic party where everyone is heard. There is no specific line because we’re not a herd of sheep, we discuss and make decisions in a democratic manner not a dictatorial one. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/11/2006 1:13:39 PM   One more thing I forgot nasfan: check out the results of the election in the states that were hardest hit by Bush's globalization giveaway of middle-class wealth and jobs, (e.g. OH, western PA). These used to be hard conservative states and they overwhelmingly voted democratic this time. This is a monumental shift. nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/13/2006 9:20:43 AM   Wtrav You need a geo-political lesson, Ohio and Pennsylvania have never been hard conservative states. Save your propaganda for the less intelligent. Also where did I ever say I was a libertarian? Also we'll see about democratic tax cuts. When they do cut taxes they spend beyond belief. Example Reagans tax cuts quadrupled the funds to the federal government, but excuse me, I think it was a democratic congress that outspent the revenues by two fold. That sir is regressive taxation. Pluralistic party? We'll See. Ask Joe Lieberman how pluralistic the democratic party is. We'll see how pluralistic the party is, when these supposedly pro gun and pro life democrats get crap comittee assignments. Pelosi is a socialist and you guys walk a party line without dispute. I give you one more, when they try to shove the immigration and guest worker bills down the throats of the people, I bet there will be republicans, at least one's with the balls filibustering their own president. I don't recall any democrats filibustering their president. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/13/2006 5:44:28 PM   nasfan, YOU CAN RUN BUT YOU CAN'T HIDE ... =================================================================== ========================= nasfan6 Member Send: 13.11.2006 9:20:43 Wtrav Save your propaganda for the less intelligent. Also where did I ever say I was a libertarian? ====================================================================== ======================================= nasfan6 Member Send: 28.11.2005 15:24:02 Wtrav02 THE QUESTION STILL STANDS!!! As for being a centrist,you are way off. I am not even close to being a centrist. To try to explain to you what a Libertarian is, I might as well talk to the wall. It would make as much impact, though I shouldn't insult the wall so badly. I do not agree with much of what the republican party stands for and I agree with nothing the liberal leftist democrats stand for. ======================================================================= ====================================== Yeah how did I make this up about you being a libertarian::)) ... you libertarian? republican? centrist? in-between all of the above?. Let me know when you figure what exactly you stand for::)) In the meantime, I'm putting you down for conservative anti-liberal anti-democrat anti-government pro- Bush and Iraq war supporter (if such an extended term exists). nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 11/14/2006 10:17:50 AM   Trying to describe to you what a libertarian is, and being one is totally different. As I have said in the past, I'm a Reagan conservative, The current republicans, with the exception of a few are not Reagan conservatives. Ron Paul and Mike Pence qualify as Reagan conservatives. The rest were Rinos. I vote Republican, because the other choice isn't even remotely viable. You didn't make up your copy and paste, you just have a comprehension issue!LOL You're way too funny. I'm still waiting for the pluralist party to explain why they attacked Joe Lieberman on a single issue.I wonder in Soro's will now ask the DNC for his money back?Now that the Dems have power, I see on the Islamist Facist sites, that they want to raise the ante. We'll see how strong on defense they are. But if an attack prevails now, I'm sure it will be Bushes fault. Just like it was when they tried their first attack on the World Trade Center. Oops, Bush wasn't President then was he? Now my question is, the war in Iraq, was it an offensive or defensive war? Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > NASFAN6 SPECIAL
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