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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > AM I NUTS FOR TRAVELING TO THE UKRAINE WITHOUT A PLAN? Author Post kiwinorth Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2008 5:06:08 PM   interesting storey,,, i have tried to put myself in his place, but it has its faults from the beginning,, especially if this was his first trip. where his head is to whats happening tells me hes a little naive. he just didnt do his home work!! i truly feel sorry for him and i would be surprised if he ever returns to Ukraine. as for the scammers, well a am sure they are well known in lugansk by many people. no group of people can pull stuff off like this and be hidden from the norms of life in such city's. lugansk is nothing different to city's here with scum that play like this, the difference is it just couldn't last the length it did or has here, what i mean for some reason i think its a daily routine of life for these people. to many people would get to know about such games here, not even our criminal element would put up with such dune under their nose's if their premises were used, let alone reputable businesses. i cannot remember spending $250 at any Lugansk restaurant or even half this, so this sounds like thief here or the $100 taxi. even our useless police force would be very interested in such, even if as said they have dune nothing wrong, really they are doing a lot wrong, its basically bringing ukraine's level of .........well you get the picture.. its interesting how such crap is excepted in Ukraine, i guess this is what I'm getting at. but travelers do need to do there home work on countries they visit other wise you end up like this guy,, first moneys handed over would have sent off major alarm bells with this story, let alone trusting a person that has really given you nothing from the beginning. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2008 7:54:29 PM   I read the story and cannot see why fiance.com would object to it being posted on this forum, there are other similar stories in the archives ..... unless of course it is to redirect us to a commercial site! To establish if the guy was naive or not would take the reading of all letters between them but if she was out with him one evening and then sitting on the knee of another American the next evening then I would believe that obviously 'canned' letters were being transmitted and these should have been realised. OK, experience is a great thing, I was very naive when I started on the process, whilst this guy was conned he would have made mistakes, ignoring red flags, along the way and I can only hope that he realises these mistakes and learns from them. Olga Moderator send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2008 9:35:24 PM   Martin, nobody would object that story to be posted here. She posted it this way to bring traffic to her web site where she makes money on services and affiliates with other sites:) Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2008 10:03:44 PM   Olga, For once we agree upon something :) I note that it was written as if the guy was blameless, nobody is blameless, but hey, come and pay for our (her) services and we (they) can prevent it happening ..... BOLLOX :) Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2008 10:24:59 PM   K Olga, Here is the story, how about deleting the commercial post by Irina? This story was written as my response to a question in the fiance.com forum. I mentioned it in connection with another discussion, and receiver this reply by a forum visitor: "I guess your story about the chap being scammed for 3 and a half thousand dollars could be true, but it just just defies logic-what did the man do to lose that amount? give her his credit card and pin numbers? some details on this scam incident would be helpful." I thought the story deserves some discussion and can be beneficial to may people. It shocked me when it happened, and it still has some trace in my memory today. The person who is drawn as a poor victim of Lugansk scammers in today's description, is a great man - a well-educated, calm, very open, sincere and very kind person. Unfortunately, with these qualities he, who might be a perfect match for another well-bred, honest and kind woman, had to become a victim of a group of smart but shallow-minded people. After the guy called to my Kiev associate from an unidentified phone number in Lugansk, we had to investigate what was going on very quickly. He was calling to say that, by his third day in Lugansk, he had lost his phone, his romance was over, and all of his money is gone; so he would like us to help him get on the first flight to Kiev and then to assist him in changing his New York flight ticket for an earlier day. We did not know the details of the story then. We immediately contacted our Lugansk associate. As our US guest could not tell us the street address in Lugansk, our associate had another phone talk with him, and managed to guess about the apartment location from his description. Our associate met the poor gentleman on a bus stop outside the apartment, took him to the airport and helped him to get on the evening flight to Kiev. I remember I even spoke with our company lawyer that day, to ask for his advice about the situation, for some episodes of it sounded like a detective story. Here is the story of that scam. Everyone who ever dealt with marriage business in Ukraine, knows that Lugansk has become notorious as a Ukrainian capital of dating scammers. There has been lots of publicity to quite a few ugly scam stories that marred the reputation of individual women and of some dating agencies. In our story, the marriage agency seems to be the most innocent participant, though! Our investigation proved that the whole performance was acted out by a group of adventurous girls (of 19-21 years of age), who opened a «hunting season» for men's wallets by registering in a marriage agency catalog, and by using it to «hook» men on the bait of their beauty. They only needed the marriage agency to «hook» men. Then, their task was to drive the man away from the agency step by step, and establish active person-to-person correspondence with him «via Her sister, or Her best friend, who knows English». This way, each girl would keep corresponding with a whole bunch of men via an agency; she would develop an image of a naive angel who is deeply in love and is waiting impatiently when her dear friend will come to visit her. At the stage when the man would start planning his visit, she would intensify side communication by inviting him to use a forum or talk on the phone. She would do everything possible to bypass the agency (or at least combine the agency correspondence with side-communication). She would communicate passionately and draw colorful pictures of their little «paradise for two» in a small but cosy rented apartment, and about a romantic dinner with candles in a restaurant, and about a morning taxi ride to a lake in the outskirts of the city, etc. When the victim is well-prepared to «swallow» the next pill of lie, she would announce that her best friend (or a sister) has volunteered to interpret for them free of charge, and that the three of them can have wonderful time together when he arrives. The next «pill» is to find a way to announce him that her agency is becoming a bit too pressing, so she would like to make all his trip arrangements by herself – the Paradise-apartment will be selected by her to her own taste. Then she'll share that she dreams to visit a romantic restaurant in central city, where her friend works, and that there is a taxi driver (who is positioned as her childhood friend or a former classmate). All these details would create a feeling in the man's heart that everyone out there cares so much about him, and that during the whole trip, he will be surrounded by most reliable and hospitable people. The man is thrilled with greatest expectations, and approximately a week before his arrival to Ukraine, he refuses from the marriage agency services, and terminates his preliminary agreements with any tourism companies or other people he had contacted earlier. REMEMBER: By doing so, the man is making the biggest mistake. From this moment and on, he loses control over the situation. From this moment, it is not him, it is HER who sets up his total time in Ukraine, and his every wish or decision will be carefully moderated by her and her «support group», acting as interpreters, taxi drivers, restaurant waiters, apartment owners etc. Well, I will not provide the name of the poor guy from our October 2007 story here. Let us just call him Mr. N. On his way to Lugansk, N. made a call to my Kiev associate, asking to assist him in the airport between his flights. They spent a couple of hours in Borispol airport, and N. preferred not to request any services in Lugansk. Though he had a few little concerns (their contacts were terminated for a few days right before his arrival which made him a bit suspicious), he confirmed that his Lugansk arrangements had been all made, and he was ready to dive into his romantic adventure Irina Timchenko Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2008 10:32:18 PM   You are right, DCV. This man came to Ukraine with an open heart, and became the victim of his own naivety. This was a hard lesson, and I hope he learned it well. I think his largest mistake was allowing others to take control over him. His feeling for this girl, which he developed through correspondence, was very strong. And, as we know, emotional involvement, always weakens us and makes us unprotected. All this makes me think that one really needs to have a well-developed PLAN before visiting his girlfriend. By the way, Russian women adore strong men, who can keep control over any situation. Irina Timchenko Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2008 10:50:32 PM   ... No, my friends, my interest here is not commercial. I do provide counseling services to couples and individuals, but this has always remained my hobby. I have a different qualification that makes me a good living. If I share an article with others, I do this just to encourage other people to think in a certain direction. At some point in past, my professional work was connected with business and legal issues of international communication. I saw so much scam everywhere over those years, that I decided to devote some of my time and energy to helping people realize that every situation that happens with us is the result of our own behavior (misbehavior). This means that we need to revise our approaches and looks at things BEFORE we take a decision in each situation. The one who has develop a habit of doing this, will protect himself from scammers and liars. Olga Moderator send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2008 11:07:05 PM   irina, sure you did itto help people here:). post this story here and we wilr meove link to your site. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2008 11:19:49 PM   Olga, As has been proven (just up above of here) your forum does not allow enough characters to post a 'story', only the first part of a story :) Irina Timchenko Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2008 11:20:59 PM   K. Thanks. :) Here it is: Just Another ScamStory This story was written as my response to a question in this forum. I mentioned it in connection with another discussion, and receiver this reply by a forum visitor: "I guess your story about the chap being scammed for 3 and a half thousand dollars could be true, but it just just defies logic-what did the man do to lose that amount? give her his credit card and pin numbers? some details on this scam incident would be helpful." I thought the story deserves some discussion and can be beneficial to may people. It shocked me when it happened, and it still has some trace in my memory today. The person who is drawn as a poor victim of Lugansk scammers in today's description, is a great man - a well-educated, calm, very open, sincere and very kind person. Unfortunately, with these qualities he, who might be a perfect match for another well-bred, honest and kind woman, had to become a victim of a group of smart but shallow-minded people. After the guy called to my Kiev associate from an unidentified phone number in Lugansk, we had to investigate what was going on very quickly. He was calling to say that, by his third day in Lugansk, he had lost his phone, his romance was over, and all of his money is gone; so he would like us to help him get on the first flight to Kiev and then to assist him in changing his New York flight ticket for an earlier day. We did not know the details of the story then. We immediately contacted our Lugansk associate. As our US guest could not tell us the street address in Lugansk, our associate had another phone talk with him, and managed to guess about the apartment location from his description. Our associate met the poor gentleman on a bus stop outside the apartment, took him to the airport and helped him to get on the evening flight to Kiev. I remember I even spoke with our company lawyer that day, to ask for his advice about the situation, for some episodes of it sounded like a detective story. Here is the story of that scam. Everyone who ever dealt with marriage business in Ukraine, knows that Lugansk has become notorious as a Ukrainian capital of dating scammers. There has been lots of publicity to quite a few ugly scam stories that marred the reputation of individual women and of some dating agencies. In our story, the marriage agency seems to be the most innocent participant, though! Our investigation proved that the whole performance was acted out by a group of adventurous girls (of 19-21 years of age), who opened a «hunting season» for men's wallets by registering in a marriage agency catalog, and by using it to «hook» men on the bait of their beauty. They only needed the marriage agency to «hook» men. Then, their task was to drive the man away from the agency step by step, and establish active person-to-person correspondence with him «via Her sister, or Her best friend, who knows English». This way, each girl would keep corresponding with a whole bunch of men via an agency; she would develop an image of a naive angel who is deeply in love and is waiting impatiently when her dear friend will come to visit her. At the stage when the man would start planning his visit, she would intensify side communication by inviting him to use a forum or talk on the phone. She would do everything possible to bypass the agency (or at least combine the agency correspondence with side-communication). She would communicate passionately and draw colorful pictures of their little «paradise for two» in a small but cosy rented apartment, and about a romantic dinner with candles in a restaurant, and about a morning taxi ride to a lake in the outskirts of the city, etc. When the victim is well-prepared to «swallow» the next pill of lie, she would announce that her best friend (or a sister) has volunteered to interpret for them free of charge, and that the three of them can have wonderful time together when he arrives. The next «pill» is to find a way to announce him that her agency is becoming a bit too pressing, so she would like to make all his trip arrangements by herself – the Paradise-apartment will be selected by her to her own taste. Then she'll share that she dreams to visit a romantic restaurant in central city, where her friend works, and that there is a taxi driver (who is positioned as her childhood friend or a former classmate). All these details would create a feeling in the man's heart that everyone out there cares so much about him, and that during the whole trip, he will be surrounded by most reliable and hospitable people. The man is thrilled with greatest expectations, and approximately a week before his arrival to Ukraine, he refuses from the marriage agency services, and terminates his preliminary agreements with any tourism companies or other people he had contacted earlier. REMEMBER: By doing so, the man is making the biggest mistake. From this moment and on, he loses control over the situation. From this moment, it is not him, it is HER who sets up his total time in Ukraine, and his every wish or decision will be carefully moderated by her and her «support group», acting as interpreters, taxi drivers, restaurant waiters, apartment owners etc. Well, I will not provide the name of the poor guy from our October 2007 story here. Let us just call him Mr. N. On his way to Lugansk, N. made a call to my Kiev associate, asking to assist him in the airport between his flights. They spent a couple of hours in Borispol airport, and N. preferred not to request any services in Lugansk. Though he had a few little concerns (their contacts were terminated for a few days right before his arrival which made him a bit suspicious), he confirmed that his Lugansk arrangements had been all made, and he was ready to dive into his romantic adventure. After a few days of mysterious silence Olga Moderator send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2008 11:24:56 PM   just do several posts. beemer18 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2008 11:25:26 PM   It is a truely sad story BUT I don't feel sorry for the guy. Doesn't sound 'well educated' to me. Sorry Irina!!! I have made plenty of mistakes in my pursuit but nothing even close to this guy. Where was his 'mind' during whole process??? Is he a 'loser' that any nice thing a girl tells him, he believes???? How the heck does someone spend 3.5k in 2 days??? I can't even give it away that fast. With guys like this.......scammers will be in business for many years. I don't mean to pile on this guy but the whole situation gets me upset, people who do not think. As for the girls, they are not blameless, just kids that have learned how gullable older men can be. Irina Timchenko Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2008 11:36:05 PM   I know what you are talking about, Beemer. I've never stopped being surprised to see how some people manage to "attract" such stories to themselves. It's just their way of doing things. This guy had to experience "all in one" during his trip; others are more careful and take measures after the very first "red light". I wonder if he has given up his idea of pursuing marriage in this country or is he still planning another visit?- Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/30/2008 11:39:08 PM   beemer, Thinking about it, and how 'OTT' Americans can be (I say that in the kindest way), had my lady informed me that her mother was in hospital then, if nothing else but to impress her, I would have been rushing to the nearest flower shop for a bunch of flowers. OK, it sounds like this guy was naive but all he did was open his wallet, he didn't even suggest, if nothing else but to impress her, that he come to the hospital with her! beemer18 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/31/2008 12:01:28 AM   Martin, he didn't open his wallet....he gave his wallet away!!! I think he had to PAY to enter hospital..... "had my lady informed me that her mother was in hospital then, if nothing else but to impress her, I would have been rushing to the nearest flower shop for a bunch of flowers" Martin, would you do this for a girl you have never met???? I would certainly send a letter to girl wishing her mother a speedy recovery!!!! Is that so bad??? Martin...what is 'OTT', I know,I am slow!! Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/31/2008 10:09:18 AM   beemer, But he had met her, he'd been out to a very expensive restaurant with her, they were, supposedly, dating! OTT = Over The Top, overdoing things, doing more than is neccesary. tallman Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/31/2008 6:05:26 PM   Very naive, you can't trust someone you've never met, still am sure he knows that now. tallman Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/31/2008 6:07:00 PM   An interesting story Kirkland, similiar to my tale of old. Do you think you will try again? tallman Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/31/2008 6:07:11 PM   An interesting story Kirkland, similiar to my tale of old. Do you think you will try again? nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/1/2008 1:47:46 AM   Easy math, Europeans are twice a much scammed as the OTT Americans, they just don't post on here because of the language. I know this first hand. See even I have my contacts in the game. Simple logistics would be the first indication. Though I love how all Americans are supposedly so gullible. Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > AM I NUTS FOR TRAVELING TO THE UKRAINE WITHOUT A PLAN?
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