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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > travel to crimea, ukraine advise Author Post Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/16/2009 6:06:33 PM   beemer, Appreciate you not rising to his taunts, guessing that you've observed his obvious chip on shoulder against me, there's a jerk on another thread, again, ridiculing those horric circumstances and deaths of 9/11 as a scam by the US government merely to start a war yet I make a 'crack' about a solitary individual and ragingbull is, again, trying to make something out of nothing, last time that I worked for fiance.com, then he ran way for 5 weeks to return with this nonsense. If it wasn't for the disgrace that an individual can be excused for getting away with inflicting insult and/or hurt on all those, and their families etc, affected by 9/11 then I'd say this is funny, but I'll refrain from saying that in respect of all those affected by 9/11. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/16/2009 8:34:26 PM   Assuming someone who is afraid of traveling is an American is not against one individual is not against one individual. Again, I do not read your arguments. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/16/2009 8:43:04 PM   Noone answered my question of whether or not you worked for fiance.com. The reason I asked is you think you are in charge all the time, and giving us your rules. If, in fact you did, I would not have come back. I will not live by your rules. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/17/2009 2:32:34 AM   Chip on my shoulder, Martin? I can forget the past, but not if it continues to the present and future. The forum who is the subject of this thread is concerned for his safety. He did not want to discuss this on the forum because he will be patronized. Lo and behold, you greeted him. He might get scammed. Discussing his problem will help determine why, how and what should he do next time, if there is one. But, if he puts his problem on the forum, he will be blamed for being scammed. He should have known better. What an idiot. The sad fact is other members of the forum are following your example. nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/18/2009 7:04:22 AM   Actually any guy who is looking to travel abroad, especially the FSU should get a primer on where they are going. You can't get a ton of information about travel to Ukraine. You can get that information on forums or contact your Embassy. They will provide you with about everything you need. Contact your embassy when you arrive. I made the call each time I arrived at Borispol. Let them know your itinerary. Keep your passport on you at all times. I never had an incident with the police trying to shake me down. I saw them do it to my driver numerous times. It's like anywhere you go. Don't put yourself in a bad position. If you use common sense you'll have a good time. If you're smart and prepare yourself, you won't get scammed and you won't have to worry about what to do next time. An ounce of prevention is always worth more than a pound of cure. Over the years there has been some outstanding advice about travelling in Ukraine on this forum. Guys who get scammed deserve it, they failed to prepare. With the amount of information available just here, there is no reason a guy should get scammed, ripped off, use ridiculous agency services or the like. I find Vince Lomardi's quote appropriate. "By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail." ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/18/2009 4:27:02 PM   A friend of mine said to look at mail order brides.com. He was just kidding, but the computer was in front of me and I did. Club10 was once mailorderbrides.com and was affiliated with then globaladies.com, now rwglobe. I knew there was at least another FSU site back then, but once I got into their system, I did not think of changing or even look at other sites seriously. They were beautiful ladies. Each one I wrote, wrote me back. They always gave me their phone number. I called them and they answered. I corresponded with four or five ladies until I decided on one and visited her. Getting married is not a small task. It would take at least a year of courting if it wasn't long distance. Therefore, I didn't expect that much. I didn't have to get a hotel. I stayed in her place. She did not ask me to pay. She showed me Kiev. She stopped by an appliance store one time and looked at microwaves and expected me to pay for it. I did. I will repeat my story if anyone asks, but things went wrong and I remember complaining to rwglobe that I was scammed because I had to pay for the microwave. It was not until AFTER the second visit that I looked for website about scammers because she was. Even then, I believe she needed the money and if I pursued the relationship, I think it would have gone further. I would have gotten a liar or a scammer for a wife, but she was in her mid 30's with a young teenager. She needed a husband and I believe she did give me a chance. The problem was, I believe she had others in her list, and wanted to try them out also. It was not just her fault that our relationship fizzled. I did e-mail her lots of times. She only responded twice. It is difficult to read or write even with google translate. What I didn’t do to pursue the relationship was call her. She did e-mail me about two months ago and expressed a desire for me to visit her, but I’m not. What made her a scammer? She lied about things to get money from me. If she would have told me I still might have given it to her freely. I suspected the lies, but I knew she needed it and it was within the budget I allocated for my travel. It was not until after that second visit did I click that button that said "scammers." I have a problem with blaming the person being scammed versus the person scamming. Would you blame a murder on the one that’s murdered? The kidnapped, not the kidnapper? Yes, you can read about them in website and find out how they do it, and you can watch for that. But if you have never been scammed and had no clue that you will be, how can that be your fault? I did not read about scammers until after my second visit after I was. I thought I was prepared. I did not find fiancé.com forum until months after my second visit. I’m glad I didn’t because I would have been blamed. I think people who have been scammed should be able to go into this forum, tell their story and be educated on what happened, what could happen and not be blamed and not made fun of and called an idiot. nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/18/2009 4:38:50 PM   RB simply put, don't send money, don't make money a basis for a relationship. They were surviving before we got there and they will after. A decent and honest woman there have too much pride to ask for money. They are survivors and a lot more stronger than they get credit for. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/18/2009 4:54:35 PM   You missed the point, nasfan. That is what all of the scams sites and forum sites say. Even I knew that before my first visit. There will be posters on this forum that have followed those rules and those who have not. Sooner or later, though, you will have to send money for travel, visa ..... Is it not also true that you will have to settle her debts (by selling her assets or paying for them), and leave money behind for the loved ones she is now supporting? After that, if the relationship sours, you would have been scammed big time. My point is the last sentence on my last post. "I think people who have been scammed should be able to go into this forum, tell their story and be educated on what happened, what could happen and not be blamed and not made fun of and called an idiot." nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/18/2009 11:04:07 PM   Settle debts? Leave money for loved ones? What the hell are you talking about. I can see you were an easy mark. No matter what others say there will be ones that will not follow conventional wisdom and think they won't be scammed. An hones woman will not want you to settle her debts or pay for her family. I didn't send money for her travel or her visa. You point in the last sentence is a moot one. People who do get scammed by most circumstances didn't prepare themselves, many think they are just smarter than others. So when a guy gets scammed he should be ridiculed for not paying attention. They are the ones the give scamming the legs to continue. Why should there be a second time, when they didn't pay attention to the first time. My advice to new guys here is the same I got from the oldtimers when I first came on board. Don't worry about writing letters, spend 2-3 weeks reading as many threads in this forum as you can. So much information is here from so many experienced people. Do you think for a minute I wouldn't have gotten hammered if I played it different. I would have expected it because guys spent their time trying to educate me on something I didn't know about, but I would have tried to prove I was smarter than they were and could do it my way. Your analogy of the murdered and murderer doesn't carry any weight. Scammers always tip their hat. If you go and spend a ton of money on a woman you barely know and she kicks you to the curb who was scamming who? There is no price for legitimacy. It can't be bought and just think what woman thinks when some clown comes there and thinks because he is from a more privileged nation that she can be bought? She should bend on her knee because you're tossing bucks around? It doesn't work like that with real women. Guys that want to play the aggrieved victim status have only themselves to blame. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2009 12:28:19 AM   Many people do not know this forum. I sure did not before I went. All I had was the rwglobe website. I did not think of looking for this forum nor scam websites. I did not complain about being scammed. I only told the story. What I am saying here is one should be able to tell his story without being blamed or being called an idiot. It was his fault for not knowing this forum? Your lady had money for travel and visa. You were lucky. I bet most other FSU ladies would not. At least that's what I think. We can never prove that unless we take a survey. The lady in Zaporozhye had one year to pay her debt. It was $3K and she needed a year to pay it off. I was considering paying it off so she can come with me one year earlier. If she was supporting her mom, you would take her away without giving her mom something? Sorry. That's not me. If that makes me an easy mark, then so be it. Scammers do not always tip their hat. I read enough scam stories that they don't always. Most do, but some don't. Some go as far as getting married and getting their green card before calling it quits. Here are my three scams by the same lady. Scams always involve money. I made a calculated risk when I parted with my money, but I lost. Yes, I could have said no, but I didn't. Again, I do not blame myself for any of them. She knew I had money. I used the ATM once in Kiev and twice in Zaporozhye, but one did not give me any money. I went to the computer and found that the money from the ATM that didn't give me money was debited to my account. Of course, I showed her. She saw my balance. I don't know Russian and she did. She argued with the bank and called her friends who worked at the bank. 1. I spent a few hours on the internet before I left. I could not find a hotel or apartment in Zaporozhye. I called her, she told me she will find one and save me money. When I got there, she said said I can stay in her apartment, but she got another apartment for $100 a day. Her mother and dog can stay there. I thought that was steep, but I said alright. I contacted another woman I previously corresponded with after I got back and was told no apartment in Zaporozhye cost more than $40. 2. She was a doctor and she wanted a business license. She needed $560 for that. Yes, you can blame me for this one. But again, I made a calculated risk and I lost. I was excited to have a doctor for a wife. I was an accountant for a clinic that employed 150 people at the time. I wanted to start my own clinic. This would give her some experience, and would absolve me of a lot of future expenses for travel and visa because she had her own clinic. 3. While she was collecting the $560, she wanted $110 more for my ticket back to Kiev. The ticket actually did cost that much. I still have it. But, when it was time to pay for it, she did not have it. I had to pay for it twice. We were talking marriage and I didn't know she was not serious until I got back here. My point again is the scammer is to blame. I had good intentions. I made a calculated risk when I parted with my money, but I lost. Yes, I could have said no, but I didn't. Of course, you can blame those who throw their bucks around and thinking a relationship can be bought. But there are others that did not do that. My point again is this is a forum where one should be able to talk about their experiences without being blamed and labeled an idiot whether or not he was. How can anyone else learn from his mistakes? ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2009 3:17:36 AM   Nasfan, how can you recommend this forum for anyone to learn about scammers when you, Martin and others blame the one being scammed? How can one tell their story here? There are people just like the one who is the subject of this thread that want to tell their story, but there are people like you and Martin that are waiting for to ridicule. You think I should be ridiculed? I didn't pay attention. I threw a ton of money because I wanted to buy her love. Go ahead, continue.... Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2009 3:35:16 AM   What! More nonsense from ragingbull! I don't believe I have ever blamed the victim for being scammed except that it remains true that one can only be scammed if one allows oneself to be. On other occasions I might have said, something to the effect, "wake up you phucking idiot, she's a scammer" but only because that's what it takes with some guys to realise what is staring them in their face and if that might have offended them in to realising the truth then a job well done. But all can see straight through you ragingbull, you've got your chip on your shoulder regarding me and you're 'popping' at me at every given opportunity and for things I haven't done, grow up and get a life. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2009 3:39:42 AM   "Why should there be a second time, when they didn't pay attention to the first time." You are saying when one makes a mistake, there will never be another chance? By the way, I don't believe you didn't pay for her travel or visa. nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2009 4:42:02 AM   First RB, Olga didn't say the guy was scammed that's your assumption. Two I never said I didn't pay for her travel expenses or Visa. You don't have to send a person money directly to pay for those. I was in Kiev for her interview, you can pre pay for their travel without sending money directly to the person. This isn't the only forum with information regarding dating, scams, agencys the whole nine yards about traveling in FSU. Who else do you blame for getting scammed? Sure you can blame the woman, but if you don't send her money you won't get scammed. If she doesn't want to play by those rules move on. I don't get the idea of being excited about her being a doctor? What the hell makes the difference what her profession was? Where you looking for a lady or a second income? What is the story to be told? It's the same you story I sent money I got burned. It's not rocket science. I seen and heard those storys over and over here and it's nothing but a variation on a theme. In your own words you said here are the three scams by the same lady and it doesn't involve money. Then you list the three scams and it all involved money. If you met a lady in the grocery store where you lived and she asked you for a grand, would you just fork it over. Highly doubtful. What's the real difference of dating a woman in the FSU and dating one at home? Distance pure and simple. People get scammed because they think they are getting something of value for less than what is truly worth. They become the scammers lawful prey. If you're too thin skinned to take a bit of a beating here, maybe the FSU isn't for you. devilmaycare Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2009 7:44:03 AM   It doesn't matter how naive the victim, obtaining money by deception is still theft, there's no such thing as "lawful prey". Its very easy to take a holier-than-thou attitude when you already have experience of eastern europe culture but anyone going over there for the first time operating on a western moral compass is highly vulnerable and we should be here to help and not ridicule. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2009 8:25:13 AM   Ragingbull needs English lessons even more, Not only does he not undersand the meaning of 'argue' but, now, the meaning of 'theft'. Theft means to steal something without permission. How can it be taken without permission if the guy voluntarily Western Union'd it to her or handed it to her? 'Scam' means to swindle, perhaps, as part of a dishonest scheme, 'Scam' does not mean 'theft'. nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2009 8:29:39 AM   Ignorance makes one lawful prey. Western Moral compass? When did our compass become better than anyone elses? The help is here, whether or not someone accepts it is their issue.Whether they prepare is also their responsibility. You can make all the rationalizations you want. To be scammed in this sense is trying to use money to influence. Nothing more nothing less. Too many babies whine here when they get a little jab in the side. Everyone of us had a first time in the FSU and most of us didn't get scammed. The attempts were made, but it didn't happen. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2009 12:46:54 PM   Send: 17.08.2009 2:32:34 Look at my post on that date, Nasfan. I said "might". Take your English lessons from your friend up there. Thanks, Devilmaycare. Talk about "holier than thou". You two take the cake. Noone deserves ridicule for just for telling their story. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2009 12:50:14 PM   Let us continue with the holier than thou. When bear555 insults you, he is to blame. When you insult him, he is to blame. None of you are innocent. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/19/2009 12:51:07 PM   Let us continue with the holier than thou. When bear555 insults you, he is to blame. When you insult him, YOU are to blame. None of you are innocent. Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > travel to crimea, ukraine advise
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