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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > ukrainian women Author Post Armin(Bonddd) Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/23/2009 6:19:55 PM   There are many different charts with figures on this site. You have to look through and compare the data and not all data is translated into English. And I have no reason to tell lies as there is no profit for me in it. I keep saying that the foreigners compete for Ukrainian women, and these are Ukrainian women who choose. And that's the truth. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/23/2009 7:18:06 PM   Ben, I did not see them as for sale. I remember one woman was dancing by herself. A fat old guy, well dressed, went to the dance floor and started dancing with her, or in front of her. She ignored him. I did not see any "sale" transaction. I did not see any woman going home with a man. I can only remember one other man there with a date, and I didn't see him when we walked out. My gf did talk to some of them afterwards. She told me of one who told her she wished she could get a man like me. If you want to look for it, it was near the "NOKIA" sign. I think it had three floors. There was a casino on the same floor. The dealers looked ready for players. There were about five of them, standing in front of the game table. There were no gamblers. The disco floor had a stage. The show at that time were men, dressed as women, singing. My gf talked briefly with one of the patrons. He had curly hair, and looked like like a light skinned Pacific Islander. She told me later on that he was on TV. Surely enough, the next day, she showed me the TV show he was in. He was one of the judges in a variety show. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/23/2009 7:37:22 PM   Mr. Bond. I have not called you a liar. I just want to know where you got the data. Surveys can be tricky. Let me give you an example. One of the discussions here is that statistically, a big age difference in choosing a wife will not work. I once came up with another survey that said marrying under the age of 26 also will not work. The reason is before that age, one usually is still trying to esblish his identity. I maintain that if one states that a big difference in age will statistically not work and cites the surveys, there should more than one survey done to see what the real reason is. One survey should be if the man is under 26, another if the woman is under 26, another if they are both over 26 and another if they are both under 26. In the case of your example Mr Bond, you can take randomly a survey and come to that conclusion, but were all the age groups represented? Was the survey done with all or most of Ukraine represented? What was the question asked? Are you looking to marry overseas? Does that mean if they say yes, they will refuse marriage, if asked to a local? How about those who said no? Will they refuse a foreigner? OK. It is in the website you cited. Perhaps I made this too complicated. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/23/2009 8:36:40 PM   My .02 Hrynia on this topic: 1. I don't worry too much about the statistics, I only need one woman. Really. What the other millions are doing, is not my focus. 2. I have written before on this forum, there is a PERCEPTION that seems to be common among FSU women of a big gender imbalance. I have heard women here (writing from Kyiv at the moment) with a straight face cite ratios of women to men that, if you thought about it for a minute, are just impossible. But women's attitudes toward the problem of finding a mate will be determined by their perceptions, NOT the objective facts. 3. FSU (and Ukraine in particular) is not the West. In the US, gender ratios are fairly consistent from region to region. But in Ukraine, there are huge demographic shifts taking place, especially people leaving rural areas and small towns for the bigger cities. Genders can, and I believe in this case are, making these relocations at different rates (this having some connection with adolescent attitudes toward education, and employment opportunities and preferences which can vary a lot between men and women). So in some places (e.g., Kyiv) gender ratios may be very different from the country as a whole, and quite possibly in the opposite direction. 4. The table that Armin kindly quoted, shows some interesting relationships. For example, on the average women marry men about 2 years their senior, in the US and, I have read somewhere, also in Ukraine. Personally, I'm hoping to find a mate whose age is around 33. Making a pretty gross simplification, let's compare using the "average" age difference: from the table, there are 340,636 women aged 33, and 315,007 men of the "ideal" age to be their husbands, making a gap of more than 25,000. This "two-year gap" is more than 20,000 for 32 year old women. 5. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that single mothers are considered less desirable by eligible bachelors, and for that reason will accept a larger age difference (I don't have any data source on this, it's just a suppose). This doesn't help the gender gap any, and with increasing age differences, makes it worse. 6. I have a very unscientific impression (just anecdotal) that in the 30s to 40s age group, FSU men were more likely than women to "fall off the cliff" (behaviorally, mentally, economically) through alcoholism, psychological instability, etc. If this is true - and of course, most women want to marry a man who can take care of and protect them - and you could adjust the population figures to remove those unsuitable for marriage, this might greatly magnify these imbalances. So in conclusion, the available data might be consistent with hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian women in their 30s whose marriage prospects are pretty sketchy. Even by ages 28 and 29, the numbers are not favorable. None of this would apply to women in their early to mid 20s ... but they aren't who I'm seeking. Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/23/2009 9:25:38 PM   currently there is a debate in america whether or not to ask illigal aliens if they are illegal aliens in the upcoming census. can you imagine how screwed up is the mentallity behind all of this??? and that is because the liberals wish to count these folks.... never mind point is that statistics and census numbers do not always reflect the reality of the situation. many polsters skew the numbers in the favor of their own opinion. with all of the corruption I have read about just on this forum - and it is backed up elsewhere - can you believe any statistics offered by an individual regarding a topic of their own interest? I can hardly say yes to that myself. but I do not know numbers, I only know human nature. regardless of statistical evidence or percentages, if you are a keen person you will meet another keen person. if you are just some schuck hoping to get lucky with some girl in another land -- you are just a schmuck. if you are hoping to get lucky in russian love because you suck at love in your own land, then you are truly misguided. do not expect to do better than you would in your own neighborhood if you are serious about having a partner with mutual respect and integrity. I pity the person who thinks they will elevate themself in the hopes of finding a hot young girl to have as a wife. only to discover later... ??? Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/23/2009 9:36:22 PM   durak, I just read your post - not there when I typed my nonsense. outstanding perspective! and of course that is why just comparing numbers does not amount to much on the reality scale of things. numbers are just numbers. reality is, well, reality. insert caps where needed. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/24/2009 10:21:28 PM   Mr. Bondd, I am having a hard time believing your numbers. If this was told to me before I started looking for an FSU wife, I wouldn't have started. I read and believed the opposite. I would not be out to compete for women if there was not enough women for every man in the FSU, certainly not all the way to Europe, even if the women were more in my age group. I did look at the site you cited. The numbers were similar to the CIA site, except for about 500,000 - total population. The site is down now, but I believe the difference was resident population and population. I assume that meant they were counting 500,000 people overseas who are still Ukrainian citizens. I did not see where the age groups are broken down as you did, but I assume those were what you say are your own survey or where it was not translated. Yet, your numbers can't be correct, if the CIA numbers are, unless there is a good explanation. If I had to choose between your numbers and the CIA numbers and yours, I would choose the CIA numbers. You acknowledged that the numbers from the CIA website were correct. It has a total of 32,142,100 people ages 15-64. Your numbers have a total of 14,583,074 (7,277,548 + 7,305,546) people ages 20-40. The CIA website has 50 ages represented, your numbers 21 ages. Only five ages (15-19) represented by the CIA numbers are younger and 24 ages (41-64) are older. The older ages have less population than the younger ages. 50 is 2.38095 times 21. Therefore, if we multiply your total of 14,583,074 by 2.38095, then we should get a number lower than the CIA numbers. The product to that is 34,721,605. It is 2,579,505 more. Your numbers are grossly overstated unless there is a good explanation to this. I welcome anyone to prove me wrong here. Sometimes, I am. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/24/2009 11:04:02 PM   Sorry, Mr. Bondd. I've been spending some time trying to prove you wrong. After I wrote this out and re-read it, I decided my logic is flawed. The product should be higher, not lower since your data is mostly of the younger ages. Armin(Bonddd) Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/25/2009 7:22:19 AM   Pardon, what is CIA? Why should some CIA know better about Ukraine than the official Ukrainian Institution? I give you now the full range of figures of men and women in Ukraine taken from official Ukrainian site and I'll give you the direct ref where it is from. But you have to compose a formula by yourself there AGE MEN WOMEN TOTAL 2009 1 240239 227251 467490 2 233320 222023 455343 3 216723 204291 421014 4 217048 205238 422286 5 207060 196298 40 3358 6 198498 186482 384980 7 190483 179616 370099 8 195951 18510 2 381053 9 197910 187829 385739 10 209246 200512 409758 11 219022 208561 427583 12 236647 225326 461973 13 245907 234075 479982 14 255970 243218 499188 15 270771 258063 528834 16 291869 277922 569791 17 313484 297980 611464 18 329868 313700 643568 19 345414 329343 674757 20 367696 351174 718870 21 380421 363306 743727 22 402748 386261 789009 23 390167 376002 766169 24 399171 384548 783719 25 406087 390658 796745 26 371541 355315 726856 27 356152 348083 704235 < br> 28 362965 355992 718957 29 342512 337282 679794 30 338302 337118 6 75420 31 325941 328136 654077 32 342498 345266 687764 33 333578 3 40636 674214 34 324286 332859 657145 35 315007 324760 639767 36 3 23346 336640 659986 37 320724 332936 653660 38 317153 330585 647738 39 290627 307045 597672 40 294604 312946 607550 41 289015 310894 59 9909 42 296643 322177 618820 43 292093 321400 613493 44 304116 33 7616 641732 45 322371 362581 684952 46 329125 373547 702672 47 34 0224 387342 727566 48 350740 402611 753351 49 332035 388134 720169 50 327168 386283 713451 51 311300 373106 684406 52 306670 373482 680 152 53 284117 351171 635288 54 289551 363198 652749 55 261999 333 894 595893 56 271971 349936 621907 57 269374 347896 617270 58 263 244 345825 609069 59 268949 361528 630477 60 221494 301340 522834 61 193067 270040 463107 62 181158 262922 444080 63 115098 174553 2896 51 64 131549 203760 335309 65 115970 183235 299205 66 147123 2376 08 384731 67 191006 310484 501490 68 191873 318547 510420 69 1996 73 346068 545741 70 203162 358742 561904 71 206413 362929 569342 72 162323 288143 450466 73 131170 234640 365810 74 94503 172021 266524 75 75706 145828 221534 76 90008 186308 276316 77 90484 185271 27 5755 78 101542 221483 323025 79 81584 190449 272033 80 78258 1926 99 270957 81 67024 168791 235815 82 52831 153415 206246 83 41958 133052 175010 84 32597 114195 146792 85 24220 88016 112236 86 177 20 69437 87157 87 14650 54218 68868 88 11011 39187 50198 89 7226 28185 35411 90 6208 24810 31018 91 3327 12609 15936 92 2320 10442 12762 93 1997 9089 11086 94 1930 9973 11903 95 1148 5035 6183 96 1646 7451 9097 97 395 1686 2081 98 367 2044 2411 99 107 381 488 20923507 24532085 45455592 Here is the ref, sorry it's only in Ukrainian and it's opened only with Internet Explorer browser http://stat6.stat.lviv.ua/PXWEB2007/Dialog/varval.asp?ma=000_0204&ti =0204%2E+%D0%EE%E7%EF%EE%E4%B3%EB+%EF%EE%F1%F2%B3%E9%ED%EE%E3%EE+%ED%E0%F1%E5%EB %E5%ED%ED%FF+%E7%E0+%F1%F2%E0%F2%F2%FE%2C+%EE%EA%F0%E5%EC%E8%EC%E8+%E2%B3%EA%EE% E2%E8%EC%E8+%E3%F0%F3%EF%E0%EC%E8+%F2%E0+%F2%E8%EF%EE%EC+%EF%EE%F1%E5%EB%E5%ED%F C&path=../Database/POPULATION/1/02/&lang=1 And another thing to say,no matter if there are 1 million or 1 thousand women who want to marry a foreigner in Ukraine. A real man will get what he wants. He has just to know how. devilmaycare Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/25/2009 7:38:20 AM   I think the numbers are meaningless. The collective experience of those of on here who have travelled to FSU countries allows readers to construct a fairly accurate picture of the situation. Fundamentally all dating/marriage everywhere is driven by the same economic and psychological factors. To pick a few .. * everyone is out to strike the best "deal" they can (predominantly youth/looks for men and wealth for women). * people raise/lower their standards depending on the locally available pool of prospects. * very small gender imbalances have a disproportionate affect on perceived availability of prospects and hence mating behaviour. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/25/2009 12:53:39 PM   Thanks for the numbers, Mr Bondd. Sorry about the crack about the CIA. I made the decision to write that before I compared the numbers and as I stated, they are similar. Yes, a man or anyone can get what they want, if that is really what they want, but he also has to know the facts and therefore determine if his efforts is worth it. I have not given up on my woman. I am far from that. Yet, I am looking to see if it will be worth it to try again in the FSU. Yes, numbers do matter. Where would you go for victory, where the opposition is weak or strong, if you can get the same results? ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/25/2009 12:57:41 PM   I do have two questions, Mr. Bondd. Mr. Durak says that as they get older, FSU women tend to fall of the cliff economically through alcoholism and their living habits. Do your findings support that? Another question is why are there more women than men in their twenties than men? Surely, it is not for the same reason. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/25/2009 5:13:37 PM   rb, To clarify: It seems that you misread my previous post. I wrote that more men than women ... fell off the cliff. Again, this is not scientific (I haven't tried to research this). But here they speak of the "lost generation" (more or less, those now in their 30s and 40s). It seems that women were more likely to get lost in the sense of being completely absorbed in making a living -- thus giving up their personal lives; but SOME men under the same stresses became very low-functioning -- and thus, not good husband material. So my thinking was, if even 1% more of men than women got lost in drug abuse, street crime/prison, or mental illness, compared to women ... this would increase the imbalance (women who can't find a suitable man) by several thousand, for each year of age. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/25/2009 5:19:37 PM   Sorry. I was in a hurry this morning. This is what my post should have said. "I do have two questions, Mr. Bondd. Mr. Durak says that as they get older, FSU MEN tend to fall of the cliff economically through alcoholism and their living habits. Do your findings support that? Another question is why are there more women than men in their twenties than men? Surely, it is not for the same reason." durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/25/2009 7:26:25 PM   rb, One thing that could add to confusion - the first population chart showed women in the first column and men in the second - the second chart is men first, women second. In the 20s, the charts show men outnumbering women. This is normal, because significantly more live births are boys than girls. At age 30, the genders are almost exactly even in Ukraine. Above age 30, there are progressively more women than men - primarily due to terrible death rates for men (compared to Western countries) in both Russia and Ukraine. The point that I have raised, about men becoming absolutely unsuitable for marriage in the minds of most women, wouldn't necessarily show up in these tables. They are still alive, and can possibly be counted by a thorough census. But they are "subtracted" from the marriage pool. Here's an example: Ukraine has about 140,000 adult prisoners (just looked this up), less than 9,000 of them women, leaving about 130,000 men. Taking the difference, about 120,000 men are "subtracted" from the potential-good-husband pool SIMPLY BY BEING LOCKED UP AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT. If you consider that most women don't want to marry an ex-con either, this could add several hundred thousands to the "eligible man deficit." But being a not very successful crook, is only one way to fall off the cliff. Consider those who are chronic drunks (a very serious disease in FSU); compulsively promiscuous; wasting their lives in "shooting galleries" injecting drugs; infected with HIV from the drug abuse. Women can and do all of these things, but probably in each case, there are a lot more men. In each category, the excess of men over women adds to the deficit. You guys can make your own guesses, but if you could measure it all, and it turned out to be a million men or more -- even two million, I wouldn't be shocked. On top of that, there are otherwise upstanding men who never finished their education (boys perhaps being more prone to drop out than girls) who may be stuck in a lifetime of menial labor. In the US, you can make a decent living hauling garbage ... in Ukraine, bottom of the barrel jobs pay sh*t. The kind of women I look at on the websites are mostly really well educated and accomplished. It's amazingly common to see 2 graduate degrees! They want a man who at least comes CLOSE to their level. So here's ANOTHER cause of "eligible man deficit." For any who didn't read or don't remember a post I made once on another thread, I know personally of two young women in Kyiv, both single mothers of young boys, close to 30 years age, who found foreign men through dating websites. Neither of them was looking for a US green card, or anything like that. They are both well educated, one really cute, the other could easily pass for a fashion model. They both believed THAT THERE WAS NO HOPE OF FINDING A HUSBAND IN UKRAINE. They are not stupid, and they must have tried... they just couldn't find a suitable man. This is not hype or hysteria, this is experience. Now, neither of them found a Western man: one of the men is from Russia, the other from another former communist bloc country. Of course, both are fluent Russian speakers. The are also highly educated, and close to the women's age. So I'm not saying that they settled for an old bald guy like me. What I am saying, is that they became absolutely discouraged about finding a good husband in Ukraine. Draw your own conclusions. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/25/2009 7:30:04 PM   One correction, about the two Kyiv girls... one of them found her man by a personal connection, but only AFTER she had given up looking in Ukraine, and had tried a dating website; the other one found her man through a Russian-language dating site. Kirkland Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/25/2009 8:33:51 PM   If women were given the choice they'd rather have a guy from there own country. This simple fact was from the mouth of more than a few that I knew. IMO this would be the same for all if the truth be told. You'd have to be a real prize for them to drop everything, including their chance of a mate from their own place, for them to make the deal with you. gecko Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/25/2009 8:57:01 PM   statistics are meaningless. are we looking for women or are we looking for attractive women. how many attractive women in Ukraine are willing to give up their friends and families and live in another country? now how many men are vying for their attention. rb, if you govern your selections by statistics, get married to an ugly woman. there is 100% success rate! ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/25/2009 10:41:43 PM   Thanks, Mr. Durak. Interesting information. Looking at the numbers and the amount of women on website, one would question why FSU women would look outside of their country for mates. Reading this website, you might come to the conclusion that a great majority of them are not serious or are scammers. You came up with good reasons. I started this venture when I had a long dry spell of the women in my surroundings who I would consider marrying. That is no longer the case. Yet, since I am committed with the lady in Kerch, all I am doing is making eyes at these women. Those who do not like statistics do not understand it or are lousy in math. It never turns out 100%, especially where humans are concerned. Gecko, no matter how handsome or perfect you are, if you asked 100 ugly women to marry you, at least 5 will say no. I would bet even 20. Even the best basketball or football team will lose once in a while. We all live by statistics. Would you walk in a bad neighborhood? Of course not. Statistics show you might get hurt. Would you hire a non college graduate for a professional position? No. Statistics show college graduates will do a better job. russ-key Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/26/2009 4:36:46 AM   I hate to put the spanner in the works guys. But if they are moving to the US or western Europe due to the fact that the men treat them as ladies, unlike as you say their FSU counterparts. What happens when they get used to their new environment and find that a lot of guys now treat them with respect and desire them. also guys that are a lot closer to her age? Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > ukrainian women
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