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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Why most Russian women arent religious anymore? Author Post ben2006 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/2/2011 10:02:00 AM   :) I thought you'd pull me up on the one. I don't know the answer Muzzy durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/2/2011 11:20:14 AM   I don't have much investment in "how does one decide whether a person is a <insert religious category here>?" Probably, because I don't place myself in any such category. Probably I misunderstood lebticker's question, or took it too literally. If a woman self-identifies as Christian, I take it that she considers herself to be religious. And to my thinking, when she says that she is Christian, she is implicitly mentioning God in her profile. Unless "Christian" has become a cultural category, instead of a religious one, it seems senseless to call oneself Christian with a belief in and reverence for God. Anyone looking for American-style evangelicals with their constant ego-saturated bragging about their "personal relationship with Jesus" may find the Russian-speaking world disappointing. I'm sure there are some, but this fashion is at odds with orthodox tradition and the currents of Russian temperament. Certainly, many of the religious women of the Russian-speaking world are not Christian at all. Historically, Russia long had large Muslim and Jewish populations. Anyone visiting Saint Petersburg, my favorite place in the world (when it's not winter), would do well to see the mosque and synagogue there -- in a city full of gorgeous architectural monuments, they are two extraordinarily beautiful buildings. There is also a fascinating Buddhist temple on the northern edge of the Neva delta. baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/2/2011 1:20:49 PM   The determination of one's Christianness can only be determined privately between you and God. There is no outward sign that can show this;many can pretend to act like a Christian but may not really have a relationship with God. In the end, and fir sure at your end, it all comes down to your relationship with God. What others think of you does not factor into the equation. Batman Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/2/2011 1:42:32 PM   Many people consider themselves Christian and their only involvement in Christianity is opening presents on Christmas and hiding eggs on Easter. While most of the U.S. is Christian I'd consider them most of them of the above model. As Baron stated, "The determination of one's Christianness can only be determined privately between you and God.", and I'd generally agree. How many of these Christians take time to read/study the Bible, pray, tithe, worship, spend time in study groups, mission trips, etc. Someone wrote here some years that got me thinking: how religious are the FSU people when it wasn't that long ago that religion was prohibited by the communist rulers? This would also extend to the general ethical/moral compass of the people. Sixty-some years of "Religion is the opiate of the masses" from the communists and it wouldn't take much to think that scamming some westerner wouldn't be such a big deal. Muzzy Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/2/2011 2:23:13 PM   Hmm, a lot of grist for the mill! Durak, this isn't so much a question of what label we put on others, more what's the reason for the labels we give ourselves. I would caution you against dismissing people who talk about 'personal relationships with Jesus'. You've never struck me as judgemental before. I take it you've had bad experiences with these people? Just FYI, by far the biggest church in Ukraine is the God Embassy in Kiev, with a congregation of 20,000. Another big church in the area is Hillsong, which is an Australian charismatic church. In the East, just like in the rest of the world, these are by far the fastest growing types of Christian organisation. Martin (sorry, Ivor), you raise an interesting point regarding your own interpretation of the requirement to follow UK law. I too consider myself a law abiding citizen, but I too break the speed limit often. I would say I do my best to follow the laws of the land, and I fully support the police and courts in keeping 'the law', which I consider to be important, and necessary to be followed. Would we be the same in this? Ben, I'd say this is one of those central questions, really. All of the Disciples and most of the early church were Jews, and still followed all Jewish laws. Jesus specifically said he wasn't there to remove the need to follow the law, and Paul wrote exactly the same in the book of Romans. The change in the rituals between Judaism and Christianity was gradual - for instance it was Roman Emperor Constantine who changed the Sabbath to Sunday from the original Saturday. I guess the question this raises is "do such things matter"? Perhaps it shows that the ins and outs of traditions are unimportant, as you and Baron state. Baron/Batman, I guess you're right - it's not what you appear to others, or what you pretend to be. I wonder, though, is it a consideration between you and God, or is it just a determination God makes? Does he need us in the equation? I was young when communism fell, but I still remember supporting organisations that smuggled Bibles into the USSR and China. They risked death for doing it, but they never stopped as the church never went away. It went underground, but it was always there. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/2/2011 3:07:42 PM   Muzzy, When you said "you consider yourself a law abiding citizen because you follow the legal rules of society" this got be thinking: OK we gain quite a knowledge of the laws of the land in which we are raised and reside but, let's face it, in all the countries we may travel to, we might have bugger all knowledge of the laws and we just guestimate what the laws may be. An example of this came about when I was in Singapore last year, in those days I was a smoker and having a beer in the hotel bar I went to stand outside of the hotel entrance, in the open air, to have a cigarette. Had I not been told then I would have acted illegally, one must move a distance away from building entrances before lighting up! So it's not a case that I have particular knowledge of the laws of a society that I follow, I act as I believe to be reasonably appropriate. I support a legal system providing it is sensible and interpreted correctly by the officials appointed to uphold/enforce the law. By the way, there's no such thing as UK law, there's England & Wales law, Scotland law and N. Ireland law. :) Muzzy Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/2/2011 3:17:20 PM   Hmm, Just to reverse that situation, let's put forward a hypothetical: Let's say a Nigerian comes to visit your town from Nigeria, and stays in a house in your street. You arrive home that night to find many of your possessions in his house. Some items are from your front garden, some from your rear garden, which is surrounded by a wall with a gate that was locked. You challenge him on it, and he tells you that in Nigerian society, anything you leave outside your house is unwanted. You point out your locked garden, and he says that in Nigeria, walls like that are only to keep wild animals out, and only the inside of your house is considered secure & protected space. Would you put it down to a cultural misunderstanding, if he claimed your stuff was now his, and refused to give it back? Would you wait for him to leave something outside his house then go and steal it, or would you call the police? Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/2/2011 3:39:57 PM   I'd probably call the UK Border Agency. :) Muzzy, Not only have I travelled extensively but I have lived and worked in Australia, Belgium, Luxembourg and The Netherlands, wherever we may go it is correct that we adhere to the laws of that country ..... but the less said about my 2.5 years in Belgium the better ..... for tax purposes :) I'm not sure why you've asked this, perhaps because of my, near, breaking of a law in Singapore, I had no issue with adhering to that law once I became aware of it! The Brits can be the world's worst for "In our country we do it like this", I can recall 20+ years ago in Adelaide, even back then it was illegal to walk down a sidewalk drinking a beer, I had no problem adhering with that law. When I refer to "sensible laws" let's take Luxembourg as an example. Luxembourg has a law that dictates the maximum price an establishment may charge for a glass of white wine yet has no such law for glasses of rose or red wine. What do the establishments do? They sell rose and red wine by the glass but white wine is sold by the miniature bottle for which there is no maximum price dictated by law. Would you consider this law to be sensible? There are other 'pearlers' from Luxembourg equally as sensible also! I don't know if it's still there but 30 (ish) years ago it was still in Queens Regulations that an RAF Airman must sleep with his horse ..... isn't this an arrestable offence? :) durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/2/2011 3:54:35 PM   Well Muzzy, I'm no Christian, but I was raised with the benefit of some Christian education. I have my own concept of what Jesus' teachings mean -- I also have no doubt that many millions of people disagree with that concept! Here in America, the "evangelical movement" is (sad to say) associated with intolerance, outright bigotry, anti-science, anti-intellectualism, a comically fictional sense of their own persecution, and the worst kind of jingoism. This is not to say that all evangelicals are like this, or even a majority. But these ugly and hateful currents flourish among them -- I have witnessed this in public life, and on a smaller scale in personal contacts. I see masses of well intentioned people, with basically good hearts, who often move along destructive paths. Those currents -- which I admit reflect only part of the thought and actions, of only a part of the evangelical movement -- would be outrageous to the Jesus of my understanding. But even worse in my eyes, is the smug self-centeredness that seems to run rampant among them. In typical American fashion, they have made their religion all about "ME ME ME ME." THEY are the saved, whereas all who fail to share their ideas shall be damned! THEY each have a "personal relationship with Jesus" -- for them, this is the litmus test of salvation. The suffering around them of those who are too different to fit into the mainstream, or who had the gall to be born without their same advantages, or those who may be grieviously affected by their preferences or way of life, or the destruction of the natural heritage that must be counted one of God's greatest gifts -- they often disregard with contemptuous arrogance. Show me a man who rarely mentions Christ's name -- who doesn't imagine that he rates time in the Almighty's appointment book -- who perhaps wrestles with doubt whether Jesus ever lived -- but who in humility, and deep respect for ALL of his fellow men (the gospel as I read it allows no exceptions) strives each day to make some light for others, asking himself what Christ might do in this or that situation -- this man, I can understand as Christian. Anyway, this is one fool's perspective. _________________________________________________ That various evangelical congregations, Mormons, Baptists etc. are experiencing rapid growth in the FSU is no surprise to me. I suspect that New Age mumbo-jumbo is growing even more rapidly there, than these churches are. The FSU is a desert full of spiritually hungry people living under often difficult and tragic conditions. Plant some seeds and add water, and new plants may bloom. Whether these alternatives will reach more than a few percent of the population, the future will reveal. horoshamashadanenasha Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/3/2011 1:01:00 AM   "Someone wrote here some years that got me thinking: how religious are the FSU people when it wasn't that long ago that religion was prohibited by the communist rulers? This would also extend to the general ethical/moral compass of the people. Sixty-some years of "Religion is the opiate of the masses" from the communists and it wouldn't take much to think that scamming some westerner wouldn't be such a big deal." I second that. with one addition: most of the smart religious families of the Soviet era have fled to the west as refugees, so if you run into a gathering of clicky Ukrainians in the street they are most likely to be a Pentecostal church group. I like to see the religions coming back though: the churches have been re-built, they have built new ones, as well as mosques and temples. So I would say FSU women are BECOMING less "like the Western European women" in the religious sense. I chose to adapt the teachings of Jesus into my life because they are closer to my way of thinking. However people now are free to proclaim any religion as their own in this part of the world. Which I'm happy to see they are, as well as them becoming more human and culturally sensitive. Hope that helps! Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/3/2011 3:11:33 AM   Hmmmmmm...? WWJD? When I was taking classes on catholocism it was stated, I believe, that in order to 'make it' into heaven one must accept JC as the lord and savior, and to also make such a pronouncement. Among many other things. So I said, "Fadda, what about the people who live deep in the jungles of south america or africa who have never seen a white man let alone never even heard of this jesus fellow? Will they never go to heaven and be damned to hell or purgatory for all eternity?" I was told that they too will go to heaven because it, basically, is not their fault they have no knowledge blah-blah-blah. What about jews? Of course jews go to heaven - under a diiferent explanation. So my understanding is that the ignorant get a free pass while the doubtful are chastened. What about those who lived well before JC even made an appearance? Durak, I know how to get rid of the 'evangelicals/bible thumpers' who come-a-knockin at the front door. Just tell them you are catholic and they turn and run. There was a saying for those of us who were going to Idaho Falls many years ago. If you ever go fishing with a morman make sure there are always two along. Because if there is only one he will drink all your beer. I haven't studied buddhism but it is on my list of things to do. I have a basic understanding of it. Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga... gunga, gunga-lagunga. So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/3/2011 11:52:03 AM   OK, Ralph: What did the Buddhist say to the corner hot dog vendor? "Make me one with everything" Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/3/2011 4:25:59 PM   dunny41, A.K.A: KIEV TOURS LIMITED APT 7, SHEPHERDS VIEW, 1 SHEPHERDS ST LITTLEOVER, DERBY, DE23 6GA Oh Joy :) Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/3/2011 6:34:16 PM   I'm still wondering - the question of the year. Who is DUNNY? I have suspicions, but I just can't nail it. .... :[ Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/3/2011 6:48:01 PM   Ralph, If you read on other threads I tracked the IP address/location of dunny41 and I posted it on this forum as being in the same location as TINTIN .... however I cannot recall, certainly for years, tracking the IP address/location of TINTIN. Now, please Ralph, go and fetch a pen and paper if necessary, why did TINTIN post/complain, yesterday, that I had tracked his computer address when I haven't tracked TINTIN's IP for as long back as I can remember, if ever? Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/3/2011 7:03:45 PM   Ralph, This was the IP track result performed on dunny: 82.26.244.241 Virgin Media Nottingham Great Britain And this is the location of the forum's pimp: KIEV TOURS LIMITED APT 7, SHEPHERDS VIEW, 1 SHEPHERDS ST LITTLEOVER, DERBY If in any doubt then go to Google Earth, Derby is the town, Nottingham is the city but they are joined at the hip with each other! nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/4/2011 9:12:29 AM   Pretty much confirms that DumDum has been posting under other names unless Danny has moved to the United Kingdom. Jasface Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/6/2011 3:02:52 AM   Hi Lebticker, Just to get back to topic a bit, if you are interested. I have met a few girls in FSU and non of them have even mention religion to me except my wife, so I know she is not religious. Her family used to be when she was younger, but that was Mormon not Orthodox. There is a Monastery in the centre of Keiv, cant remember the name but I have been there twice. Lots of people going through and it seemed most of them were religious at least to the fact they knew some rituals as they walked in and out of buildings of worship (sorry, do not know the names as I am not religious, just site seeing). Young and old people seems very much the same, making crossed with there hand in front of there bodies, especially when in the underground tunnels where they have mummified remains of former Priests (or people of importance) who served the Monastery. Very interesting place. Men cant where hats in the tunnels (as I got in trouble for it) and women must were hats but everyone seemed to understand this except me. Well they all knew the language sure and I know only very basic words, but the first time I went there was with a taxi driver (I had 24 hours to kill and he shows me around for a small fee) and he knew everything. Anyway, the point is that there were a lot of young people who seemed to be very into it when I was there so I guess religion is certainly well known in Keiv at least. lebticker Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/10/2011 12:53:45 PM   Durak, I dont know where you live but your describing an america that is out of a science fiction novel. I on the other hand am not even afraid to critique my parents homeland (lebanon) which I do often. There are a few evangelical christians here but the majority I have come into contact with are caring, humble and kind people. The only people I have known who share your opinion of them are atheists who we all know are the most arrogant of any lot of people with a worldview. Now getting back to russian women, just putting christian on your profile says nothing about how important God is to you, but when you see a woman saying on her profile that she is looking for a loving man and to build a family with him, you would naturally think these are the most important points to her. You may think that if a person loves God that they should hide it on their profile or make it an tiny speck on their profile, but then again seeing your not a catholic, orthodox or protestant christian you wouldnt understand the importance of putting God first. I would wager to think that most of these women wouldnt mind marrying an atheist or even someone from another faith. If you read your bible you would understand the important in christianity of being equally yoked. Now to prove my point why not go to any filipina site and check the amount of women who arent afraid of saying that they are looking for a christian man that puts God first, and almost every one I have met in my old line of work (dietetics) never even comes close to being evangelical or preachy but at the same time they arent afraid to say up front what they are looking for in a man. JasonA Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/30/2011 12:31:13 AM   Well Muzzy, It is not in following a set of rules that gets you to heaven. These rules were put in place when Israel was wandering in the desert for forty years. A lot of the Jewish law had to do with hygiene and health issues. The laws that dealt with sin pointed to a coming messiah. That person I Jesus. It was his death, the shedding of his blood that fulfilled the law and penalty of sin. IT is true that we do not need to go to church to be a Christian, but we do need a relationship with our Savior and our God. It is sometimes easier to find in church, but then again Jesus hung with prostitutes and thieves. His best friends were hard working uneducated blue collar fisherman tent makers and carpenters. Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Why most Russian women arent religious anymore?
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