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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > New honest English owned Ukraine Dating Agency Author Post ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/2/2011 6:31:12 PM   Let me get this straight. You are not in England. An Englishman that goes to where you are and says he is English will be beaten up. An Englishman in Ukraine saying he is English in his website will piss you and people from Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland. Is the converse true? Will an Englishman in England get pissed off with someone proclaiming he is Scottish, Irish or someone from Wales? Will someone from England get pissed off if a Scottish, Irish or someone from Wales starts a website and proclaim he is from those countries? How about me? If I call someone English because they are from England will I piss off the Scottish, Irish or someone from Wales? durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/2/2011 11:43:32 PM   What a bunch of eccentrics! Ivor repeats "there is no such nationality as 'English'" like a "broken record" (youngsters here won't understand that expression). Does anybody else on this forum care about this? If I understood rightly, the principle here is that any person identifying himself by his country, is either dishonest or ignorant, IF that country is not a sovereign state. Did I get that right, Ivor? And it makes no difference whether that patriotic label (strict definition of patriotism is loyalty to COUNTRY, not STATE or ETHNICITY) is also strongly associated with a language, ethnicity, and/or cultural heritage. What about Tatarstan -- does that count as a "country" by these rules? If so, if a person in Kazan calls himself a Tatar, he must be either dishonest or ignorant. Slovakia SEEMS to be a country (though I lack Ivor's expertise in this matter); it's OK for someone from Bratislava to say he's a Slovak, I guess ... but if he said that before 1992, he was a damn liar. Am I catching on, prof? By the same token, if I'm from Podgorica, I am allowed to call myself Montenegrin, but until 2006 I would have been required to call myself a Serbia-and-Montenegrin: otherwise, I would have been gravely insulting my Serbian brothers. "England is a country, California is not a country!" Actually, the original edition of Encyclopaedia Britannica defined "Callifornia" as a "large country of the West Indies," but we know this is probably bullsh*t, because this book labeled itself as British (subsequent editions still do), and Britannic (or British) is no nationality. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/3/2011 2:03:02 AM   Why would this be dishonest or even ignorant? Ivor may or may not remember this, and I don't remember what I was labeled as, but I once made a mistake similar to Ray, the owner of the site. I have admitted my ignorance. Call this my education. SJG-UK started this thread to introduce a website. How did Ray, become ignorant and a liar? Are we going to judge his business by the rules of strict patriotism? Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/3/2011 3:39:57 AM   Durak, Cut the bullshit, one's nationality is the nationality that is stated on one's birth certificate, passport etc. and I know precisely what nationality is stated on this Ray's birth certificate and passport and it isn't, and never has been, 'English'. People often refer to a Canadian as an American, an American as a Canadian, an Aussie as a Kiwi, a Kiwi as an Aussie etc, to quote durak ... does anybody around the forum care about this? ..... I'm sure they would if it affected them directly? Just because the problem isn't in one's own back yard doesn't mean it isn't a problem and ignorant idiots such as this Ray character cause a big problem in UK ..... "English this", "English that" etc. ..... these islands aren't England you frigging idiot Ray, they are Britain! Muzzy Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/3/2011 4:12:59 AM   Durak, give it up. It's a brave thing to bring logic to the forum, but you might as well be speaking Portuguese. As the cogency decreases, the insults will increase. You know how the ride goes... Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/3/2011 7:27:59 AM   RB, I was merely making the point that this Ray character, whilst displaying his ignorance, is hosting a website that causes offence to a proportion of, what would have been, potential customers whereas a marketing tool, a marketing website, should be non offensive whilst attracting as much business as is reasonably possible. I've never met this Ray character but just by the way he can't shut the phuck up about being English I know the type of character he is, he's not a character I would like to associate myself with and I certainly wouldn't place any business in his direction and whilst the Yanks, Canuks, Aussies etc. might not think this to be particularly important many UK nationals will think it important. And what Sting has to do with this is beyond me, Sting isn't even from an English speaking location ... he's from Newcastle. :) Each time I step from this house I have to be on my best (politically correct) behaviour because of idiots like Ray, if I were to speak like him I'd end up in hospital whilst the locals may burn my house down ..... perhaps I'll provide them with Ray's name and address instead :) Ray Clark 3 prov Badygina 42 Melitopol, 72311 +380 98 423 5852 durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/3/2011 8:04:45 AM   Just for the record, two of my grandparents were English, and one Welsh (all within a generation or two of immigration to the US of A). I've never referred to my heritage (which we sometimes call "national origin") as "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Irelandish," and don't foresee a day when I shall. Mas eu sou apenas um tolo: devo estar sentado aos pés dos sábios, e estudo sua sabedoria. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/3/2011 9:14:47 AM   durak, Northern Irelandish? There is no such country as Northern Ireland and I can tell you the answer to which nationality(s) the people of N. Ireland consider themselves to be. So ..... if the the English are English, Scottish Scottish, and the Welsh Welsh then there is clearly no 'British' identity. N. Ireland is deep rooted in politics, I've heard both sides of the story, both sides have valid points so, as far as that is concerned, I sit on the fence and whilst a proportion of the N. Ireland population cite their nationality as being Irish, which I do not disagree with, I am merely posting this statement to make a point and not to cause offence to any person(s) of N. Ireland. So 'we' have English, Scottish and Welsh, supposed nationalities identifiable to the countries of England, Scotland and Wales ..... therefore we can not have a supposed nationality of Norther Irelandish, as Durak puts it, because there is no such country as N. Ireland. There is only one country of Ireland but these people cannot be of Irish nationality because Irish is the nationality of the Republic of Ireland and these people are UK nationals so they, by Durak's logic, need to be English, Scottish or Welsh. I can tell you the answer, aside from the N. Ireland people that cite their nationality as Irish the others, very proudly, cite their nationality as 'British' and it is a subject they do not consider negotiable or up for discussion, they are BRITISH and blood may flow if any person(s) try to convince them otherwise. And as for grandparents etc. Well one only has to watch American TV to repeatedly hear the British Isles referred to as 'England' ..... there's no excusing ignorance much the same as all these idiots that continually refer to an imaginary country of 'Holland' ..... only difference there being that the Dutch have surrendered all hope of educating people and even refer their country as 'Holland' themselves ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/3/2011 10:29:37 AM   Either they did not elaborate on this in my history class, I forgot it, missed it or I failed to ask the proper questions and let it go. I just read up on it more. Sovereign is the key word. Among other things, I had problems understanding being from England but your nationality is not English. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/3/2011 11:22:14 AM   According to professor Ivor, "one's nationality is the nationality that is stated on one's birth certificate, passport etc." Let's take this as gospel truth. The passports of most from England clearly say, "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" -- do they not? Therefore, if a man from England identifies his nationality in any other way than United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, he is either ignorant, or dishonest. Or did I miss a step? durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/3/2011 11:30:00 AM   Presumably, a modern-day Nelson would order his fleet to hoist the signal, "the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland expects that every man will do his duty." How trippingly it rolls off the tongue! Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/3/2011 11:38:13 AM   Durak, Alas the British, some of us, are cleverer than some ..... we can open a passport to read inside where is states one's nationality as 'British'! You stick with the Big Lettering on the passport cover though .... It also reads 'European Union'! You have ancestors from UK Durak? ... Guess what? ... So do I. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/3/2011 4:49:59 PM   I can't stop laughing at Durak's invented nationality of 'Northern Irelandish', in the Republic they are 'Irish' but in the North they are 'Irelandish' :) Now what shall we call the people of NSW, Australia ..... 'New Waleans', 'New Welsh'? I recall when some workmates and I were driving around the Aussie state of Victoria in a company car that had NSW plates on it ... the cops pulled us asking if we had a New South Wales licence ... as quick as anything one of the others replied "No, but we've got an Old South Wales licence" ..... not only were we all on detachment from a company based in (Old) South Wales but all UK driving licences are issued in Swansea, (Old) South Wales :) ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/3/2011 8:01:43 PM   Now you're confusing me. I just read that Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom. Are we laughing because it is not a country? We laugh when it is not a country and we get pissed off when it is. Is that how it goes? durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/3/2011 11:44:46 PM   At last, I think I have decoded Ivor's law: a person is allowed to identify himself by the "Nationality" stated in his international passport, or by a standard informal adjectival form of that Nationality. Possibly, a person is also permitted to identify himself by various other means. But if this identification is by the name of a "Country" (however Ivor defines this term) that does not match the passport nationality, then the person is either dishonest, or ignorant. So, for example, if a person who was born and has lived his entire life in Bermuda calls himself "Bermudan," and Bermuda meets Ivor's standard of "Country" (country has many different meanings, but we know by example that in Ivor's judgment, England is a country) ... then this man is either dishonest, or ignorant, because if he has an international passport, his stated nationality is "British Overseas Territories Citizen." What an eye-opener for me to discover that when my grandma Blodwyn called herself Welsh, or my kindly next-door neighbor from Belfast called himself Irish, they were being either dishonest, or ignorant. Just For Fun, here's a quote from Wikipedia's style guide on the subject of UK nationality (which of course, is no authority that anyone other than wikipedia contributors is supposed to respect): "Above all, be civil, assume good faith and respect other people's points of view. It is of course OK to 'be bold' and apply your choice, but remember that strong feelings surround UK identity, and firm disagreement may arise! ... Do not enforce uniformity: It is not possible to create a uniform guideline, when such strong disagreement exists on the relative importance of the labels. Re-labeling nationalities on grounds of consistency —- making every UK citizen 'British', or converting each of those labeled 'British' into their constituent nationalities -— is strongly discouraged." Who would doubt that in our forum, civility and assumptions of good faith are more honored in the breach than in the observance. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/4/2011 3:36:08 AM   RB, Just to clarify things, such places as Bermuda, Slovakia, blah blah, blah are not part of the Unoted Kingdom and have absolutely nothing to do with it no matter how much another tries and tries to create a smoke screen to justify himself ..... Furthermore a passport might be described as a small book, as with any book one needs to open it and read the pages to find out what the phuck it is all about, one doesn't achieve very much being ignorant just staring at the cover of a passport! Northern Ireland came in to the conversation because Durak made a point that nationals are nationality identifiable by their countries (or similar) however N. Ireland is not a country, whilst it remains a political hotbed N. Ireland is a province of the country of Ireland that is under UK rule and the nationals of which are UK nationals ..... and shit for brains decides these people are 'Northern Irelandish' ..... I hate to quote nasfan but ... "Way Too Funny" :) DD, It's so long ago my memory is fading, obviously the cops had a reason for pulling us, as is standard when a traffic cop pulls a driver a driving licence is asked for ..... he/they just happened to ask if we had a NSW licence ..... so unusual, so unbelievable? Muzzy Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/4/2011 4:03:55 AM   While I hate to self-quote: "As the cogency decreases, the insults will increase. You know how the ride goes..." Porque é que Mateus 06:07 vem à mente? urcan1971 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/4/2011 5:41:56 AM   We all know Canada is the same as USA.no problem durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/4/2011 10:48:37 AM   My dear Muzzy, what an apposite citation of scripture! It is a weakness of mine, that when someone pedantically insists on some "rule," especially one that is massively irrelevant to the topic at hand, I enjoy showing the consequences that would result, if the "principle" were taken seriously. I established to my own satisfaction (though probably, nobody else's) that the supposed "rule" leads to absurdities -- including its authors weasely "clarifications," and his passionate demonstration that he is altogether impervious to irony. However, I must stand back and salute ragingbull, who made the point far better than I, much more wittily, and with poetic economy: "I see. An Englishman would get beaten up in England if he says he is English." "for stating that he is English, no one will beat him up because he is in Ukraine." Game, set and match to ragingbull! durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/4/2011 10:59:25 AM   PS I launched my critical analysis of "there is no such nationality as 'English'" only after seeing it on the forum over and over and over again. I can without doubt state that each time this was asserted, it shed no light whatsoever on the topic under discussion. When I was in primary school, one of my wee classmates was fond of mentioning that she was "kin to Robert E. Lee." (The flavor of this phrase is impossible to accurately translate for non-Americans, but the key point is that we were all supposed to be impressed -- whereas in truth, nobody gave a rat's ass about it.) After this had been going on for more than a year, and she said this perhaps the dozenth time in my hearing, the whole class spontaneously began to chant, "Cathy is kin to Robert E. Lee. Cathy is kin to Robert E. Lee. Cathy is kin to Robert E. Lee." God d*mn it, there is no such nationality as English, and the next man who claims otherwise can expect to be carved up with a broken bottle of Watney's. Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > New honest English owned Ukraine Dating Agency
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