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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Why are FSU ladies looking for Westerners? Author Post durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/30/2011 1:30:14 PM   Armin, I respectfully disagree with some statements you posted concerning alcoholism. "it was a total problem in Russia (not in Ukraine)" -- In my own small experience, culture and behavior are not so very different between these two states. If there are big contrasts in matters affecting public health, I have not yet found evidence. "Alcoholism is huge problem every where." -- Actually, no, there are Islamic countries where alcoholism is miniscule. It is a huge problem in most of the world ... but it is huger in some places than others. Let's look at per-person alcohol consumption (not the same thing as alcoholism, but much more reliable to measure). Of the top 13 states by consumption, 11 are Eastern European. Looks like a bit of a pattern, no? Russia and Ukraine rank 5th and 6th, with Russia's per-person consumption about 1% higher than Ukraine's. Ukrainians drink 56% more alcohol than Australians, and 65% more than we do in the USA. And believe me, alcoholism is a major problem in the USA (my country). So what about countries where adults have 5 drinks, for every 3 in my country? Ukraine and Russia have miserably poor life expectancy, ranking 141st and 143rd for life expectancy of males. This means that in more than two-thirds of the UN member states, men outlive those of Ukraine and Russia. Men in the US outlive Ukrainian men by 13.5 years, and Australian men outlive their Ukrainian counterparts by 16.8 years. Take a minute to think how awful this is. Men in such dirt-poor countries as Nepal, Mauritania, Guyana, Bangladesh, Tajikistan, and North Korea outlive Ukrainian men. North f**king Korea, the world's biggest prison camp where almost everyone lives on the edge of starvation, is healthier for men than Ukraine!!! I mention lifespan, because according to public health officials who study this catastrophic state of affairs, alcoholism is a major factor in the poor life expectancy within Russia and Ukraine. The women who live in these cultures know about alcoholism primarily by bitter personal experience, rather than statistics. Sure, there are plenty of men who don't drink to excess, or inject other drugs by syringes, etc. But the vast numbers who do these things, take a big chunk out of the population of good potential husbands. So in one fool's opinion, the problem of alcoholism as a motivation to look for a husband abroad, is not bullshit. lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/30/2011 2:08:27 PM   American men also out think Australian males by 75% !!!!! Armin(Bonddd) Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/30/2011 4:48:40 PM   All that mean that you think that Ukrainian women think that Ukrainian men are alcoholics, and this is based upon the statistics of alcohol consumption and some women's words, that's funny. There is a joke here, people say "I'm not an alcoholic, I'm a drinker". Personally I used to drink much, (now I quit and don't drink at all, just because I don't want to) we in four could drink 20 bottles of vodka during the day and then have fun all night and you would never guess we were so drunk. So you will say I'm an alcoholic. I will say, no, I was a drinker, I could drink, I knew how and that was a way of socializing and relaxing. Let's see the definition - Alcoholism is the addiction to or dependency upon drinking excessive amounts of alcoholic beverages. So does this definition say what the excessive amount is? One shot, a bottle, 10 bottles? No, just excessive amount which is individual for each unique individual. So someone drinks 2 shots a day and people say that he is ever drunk and someone can drink a bottle and be as sober as a Pope. So the statistics of consumption doesn't matter or matters not so much. But well, Ok let it be, I'm not going to disappoint you anymore, yes, all men in Ukraine are alcoholics and all women are dreaming of a western prince and of course he looks just like you. Welcome to the agencies! You are their clients. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/30/2011 8:08:30 PM   Armin, "all men in Ukraine are alcoholics and all women are dreaming of a western prince and of course he looks just like you" -- Answer me please, who claimed that? Do you believe that mockery, sarcasm, and setting up such 'straw man' arguments effectively support a case? 1. I neither claim, nor believe, that alcohol consumption is identical to alcoholism. As I wrote above, consumption is easier to measure. Because of the difficulties in assessment, most statistical studies don't use the term alcoholism, or attempt to measure it. 2. I think it reasonable and probable that consumption and alcoholism have a fairly strong correlation: in other words, if people consume twice as much alcohol in Group A is in Group B, the proportion of alcoholics in Group A is probably much higher. 3. Consider this claim I found in an article by an American enthusiast of Ukraine: "An estimated 30 percent of men aged 25-30 are alcohol addicted..." (no source was cited). If this were true, then about 70% (a strong majority) of these young men are NOT addicted -- but still, it would be a tragic state of affairs. It is not necessary that "all men" in Ukraine be alcoholics, in order for the problem to have far-reaching consequences. Maybe this 30% estimate is far in error (I hope to God that it overstates the truth), but if the number is 20 or even 10 percent, it is still much worse than most countries, and large enough to make a real difference to the number of eligible husbands. 4. I'm glad to know that you have changed your consumption patterns. I have no medical education, but I know of people who were drinking at similar rates who where warned by physicians that they were sustaining severe liver damage. You did yourself a big favor! 5. "you think that Ukrainian women think that Ukrainian men are alcoholics, and this is based upon the statistics of alcohol consumption and some women's words" -- No Armin, my ideas about this are NOT based primarily on consumption statistics or "some women's words." They are based on the heart-wrenching tragedy of heavy male mortality in Ukraine (nobody disputes this, as far as I know), and my reading about causes of this tragedy. 6. If alcohol consumption is a leading cause of death in a country (see below) -- in contrast to most of the world's countries in which it is a relatively minor cause of death -- would you say that alcohol is a serious problem in that country? 7. I would love to believe that this is a fading problem in Ukraine, an issue mainly for the older generations. However, data show extraordinarily high rates of alcohol consumption (compared to other European states) among teens and even pre-teens in Ukraine, suggesting that this problem is ongoing. 8. Finally, I don't believe that many Ukrainian women would prefer to live with a foreign man, leave their country, or dream of any guy who looks like me. Of course, most want a man who is young, handsome, a good provider, responsible, fit, from their own country and culture, and who will live with them near their relatives and familiar places. I also believe that when a significant percentage of men are either drinking heavily/dangerously, abusing other serious drugs, or in prison ... then many thousands of women who dream of finding a good husband will be "left out." _______________________________________________________________ < br>Anyone seeking facts, might wish to look at these "woman's words" (Nataliya Levchuk, Institute for Demography and Social Studies at the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine): http://www.demogr.mpg.de/papers/working/wp-2009-017.pdf which includes this statement: "We find that in 2007 alcohol-related deaths constituted 40% ... of all deaths among adult men... The results also indicate that alcohol-related deaths at working ages account for approximately one-third of the male ... life expectancy difference between Ukraine and western countries. Alcohol is an important public health threat in Ukraine and should be addressed by relevant measures." *** 2 out of 5 deaths of Ukrainian men are due to alcohol !!! *** CITATIONS ON THE LINK BETWEEN ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION AND MORTALITY Rehm, J., Room, R., Monteiro, M., Gmel, G., Graham, K., Rehn, N., Sempos, C.T., Frick, U., Jernigan, D. (2004). Alcohol use. In: Ezzati, M., Lopez, A.D., Rodgers, A., Murray C.J.L. (ed.). Comparative quantification of health risks. Global and Regional Burden of disease Attributable to Selected Major Risk Factor. Geneva: WHO, 959-1108. Anderson, P. (1995). Alcohol consumption and all-cause mortality. Addiction 90, 481-484. CITATIONS ON THE CONTRIBUTION OF ALCOHOL TO HIGH MORTALITY IN THE FORMER SOVIET UNION Anderson, S., Hibbs, V. (1992). Alcoholism in the Soviet Union. International Social Work 35, 441-453. Shkolnikov, V., Meslé F., Vallin. J. (1996) Health crisis in Russia. I. Recent trends in life expectancy and causes of deaths from 1970 to 1993. Population, an English Selection, 8, 123-154. Leon, D. A., Chenet, L., Shkolnikov, V.M., et al. (1997). Huge variation in Russian mortality rates 1984-94: artefact, alcohol, or what? Lancet 350, 383-388. Bobak, M., Murphy, M., Rose, R., Marmot, M. (2003). Determinants of adult mortality in Russia. A study based on sibling’s survival. Epidemiology 14, 603-611. Shkolnikov, V.M., Andreev, E.M., Leon. D.A., McKee, M., Mesle, F., Vallin, J. (2004). Mortality Reversal in Russia: the story so far. Hygiea internationalis 4, 29-80. lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/30/2011 9:27:57 PM   durak,,, don't confuse the group with facts! It doesn't do any good! It's better to make up a bunch of absurd lies,,, then everyone gets involved!! lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 7/31/2011 10:29:35 PM   danny dumb dumb dingle berry!! I've never searched for "pritty" girls!!!! How is your search going for pretty "Bois"???? So,,, all of the changes are "oll" good??? You're really "art" danny!! Mick99 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/1/2011 7:05:42 PM   Obviously expressing opinions is always highly subjective! Naturally I can only talk from my experience in the Ukraine and everyone's impressions will be different. Armin you are right with the demographic disproportion that this seems to be the case with women over 30 - I totally agree. I havn't been to Russia so I can't comment on the problem of alcoholism there, still from the people I know in the Ukraine - alcohol seems to be the biggest problem people are dealing with. I am in my 40ies and my friends over there range from their 30ies to 60ies. I often hear about friends getting hopelessly drunk ending up in hospital. Friends in the UK or Germany my age have gone past the "let's get drunk until loosing consciousness phase" whereas in the Ukraine it does seem to be an issue. Still especially here in England teenagers and people in their 20ies are having similar problems with alcoholism but most of them will grow out of it lateron in life. Personally I think that it is just part of the culture over there and many can handle it but also many can't and it becomes a problem for them. Let's put it this way in my 40 years in Germany and the UK I know only of one case amongst my friends where someone due to alcohol cosumption ended up in hospital. One year in the Ukraine and within my limited circle of friends about 5 ended up in hospital due to overconsumption - go figure! Who told me that women adore Western men? My lady is my age i.e. in her 40ies - a lot of her single friends have been asking me whether I have got single friends back in England and that I should get them to visit the Ukraine. Now - I havn't single friends who are interested in a relationship across borders but there doubtlessly seems to be some interest from some of the single ladies I have met over there. Partly they can't find or built relationships locally. Again this might be totally subjective but I find it almost embarrassing when I get this asked by friends of my girl friend who I barely know. This has happened to me many times. I do agree that majority of women are not bothered foreign men but some seem to be for whatever reason. Your last statement - all I can say that my lady is very attractive despite her age and certainly out of my league - other than that even if she were not attractive I would have gone for her. She has a great personality and other than that we get on great and have good time together - this is what counts more than shallow beauty. Armin these reason's are bullshit???? As I say it's just an opinion and not meant to be a scientific statement or a universally valid thesis. At least you did agree on the demographic statement. urcan1971 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/2/2011 7:01:14 AM   If you want a woman prone to volcanic rages then ukraine ladies are the place to go.they are ok for a few days maybe even a few weeks ,then wait for the trigger then explosion ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/2/2011 10:53:06 AM   The women. Don't forget the women. I know women in Ukraine can also drink. Dutchy013 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/3/2011 7:18:00 AM   I have been visiting east europe since 2004 for business reasons. Being a single guy I noticed the beautiful women. I also notice a change in attitude with the women over the years. Back in 2004 they were more genuine interested in meeting a future husband. Nowadays a lot of women are just in the game of meeting guys and getting the most out of it, especially in the big cities like Odessa and Kiev. This can not be a surprise considering the loads of guys visiting these women and showering them with presents, not to mention the fees for the translator and cab fares. I feel sometimes ashamed when I see these guys in their 50's meeting a girl of 18-25 in a restaurant, translator present, handing over gifts and all she can do is giggle because she knows she has him on the hook. These guys sincerly think she is interested in him? Wake up !!!! ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/3/2011 8:12:38 PM   "If you want a woman prone to volcanic rages then ukraine ladies are the place to go.they are ok for a few days maybe even a few weeks ,then wait for the trigger then explosion" That explains Nasfan. Don't take it out on us, Nasfan. JankinsHere Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/4/2011 10:40:21 AM   Woman are trying to find something special. You know you get bored from everything that is around you and you need something new.. That is the reason for Slavic women search. They need something new. And they often like that new more than men from their country. And as many sites tell (e.g. Dream, Datebride, Fiance) Slavic girls are amazingly beautiful but this is not the only feature which makes them to be so attractive for the men. Slavic brides can make great life-partners for each man, because they are family-oriented, loving and caring. Slavic brides are said to be beautiful both on the inside and outside. ) It's up to you what to think...... Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/5/2011 5:01:15 AM   jankins - I think you're right. nobody drinks more than I. the saying is "24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day - coincidence?" I say 24 beers in a case and it's already 10 AM, I better get another couple cases before the beer store closes. Have fun with that RB. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/5/2011 12:41:39 PM   Believe me Ralph, you don't want me to have fun with that one. Mick99 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/23/2012 7:32:56 PM   Armin, not Bullshit but perception, which you cannot discount. I appreciate that individual perception can be somewhat flawed and doesn't necessarily justify claims for universal truth. A couple of things: My comments on the demographic trend was relating to women in their 30ies and above, since most of my friends over there are in that age group. You mentioned that most of the Western guys are looking for women below 30. In my travels I have met a lot of blokes travelling to the Ukraine whose spouse was Ukrainian. The clichee of old guy wants young girl doesn't wash at least in my experience. The majority of men I met had a girl friend or a spouse their same age. And lastly about alcoholism. I am German having lived for last two decades in England. In my 20 years in Germany I only know of only one case in my circle of friends who was hospitalised due to alcohol consumption. In England I have seen a lot of heavy alcohol abuse but I do not know about anyone amongst my friends who was in serious trouble. In 2 years dealing with the Ukraine I know of two people who lost their eyesight due to drinking bad alcohol. About 4 of my friends got hospitalised due to alcohol poisening, a lot of friends get drunk as soon as they have got some spare cash and in general it is a big issue. You may think it's normal Armin since you live there but I assure you it isn't. It is an issue the nation has to deal with and talking to women they are fed up of being at the receiving end of alcohol abuse resulting in violence towards them. On the other side a lot of women struggle with this as well. Again I am mainly talking about the 30+ generation - I am aware that the upcoming generation has a different outlook on life and I agree with you that the problem may not be quite as pronounced. Armin - lastly I never claimed that MOST women are looking for a relationship across the border or with someone from the West but some do. In the same way as a lot of guys from the West are just playing with the "translators" from the agencies who are claiming to be the amazingly beautiful lady whereas the name in their passport is Igor or Vladimir. But despite of all the deception on both sides real relationships are formed between East and West often culminating in a marriage and that is not necessarily a bad thing. So Armin - thanks for your critic and my best wishes to you. Why don't you look for a woman from the West - nicely "liberated" and aspiring to be like a man as she has been indoctrinated to be by modern western secularism. After a couple of years with such a creature with her femininity destroyed due to an ill conceived concept of gender roles and well shaped by "feminism" you may have a bit more sympathy with us who just long to find a life partner of actually the other sex and not some androgenous being. just a few points Vesnovka Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/25/2012 2:38:31 PM   Mick 99- i dont understand where do you find friends as you described here!? I look at my friends, neighbors, co workers, and i see only one alcoholic. He drinks about 3-6 days in every 2-3 months. That is all. Where had you found them? giss Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/26/2012 7:48:30 PM   According to the world health organization In fact, Ukrainian children start drinking alcohol when they are 10 – 13 years old. So, no wonder, that according to the statistics of Ministry of Health of Ukraine about 60% of children poisoning is caused by alcohol. If it goes like this in future, Ukrainians take all chances to become the drunkiest nation on the planet. Wow that sounds like young people have a healthy lifestyle! Moreover, alcohol abuse and addiction continues into adulthood, contributing to the nation’s declining population (now 46 million people) and increased mortality rates. An estimated 30 percent of men aged 25-30 are alcohol addicted, for instance. According to the Health Ministry, about 40,000 deaths annually are caused by alcohol poisoning and other related diseases, as well as alcohol-related accidents. Wow you should set the World Health Organization straight! They hallucinate there is a drinking problem in Ukraine! I'm glad you could show us how wrong we are! lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/27/2012 12:21:03 PM   Last week I saw a Russian woman deep throating a E-85 gas nozzle!!!! lonelyranger1701 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/27/2012 10:35:31 PM   Giss,,, there are real women like Ves in Russia and the Ukraine!! Is it any wonder why their men drink so much??!! Give her everything she wants or she is gone!? So much stress in the home, a terrible environment! I think a real case could be made, to prove that the women like “Ves” are the cause behind all of their social decay!! Ves,,, how does it feel to bring down a whole society???? giss Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/28/2012 11:55:11 AM   Ranger you misunderstand Ves. She won't leave you as long as you show you care and slip her a couple bennies every morning. If not she will have to go to the bar and find another man who cares for her and will buy her drinks. 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