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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Think the FSU Is oppresive, and the West is free ? Think again !!!! Author Post scottlf Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/4/2004 11:34:43 PM   16th amendment. What I now find questionable is does the current use of the 16th amendment violate the 13th amendment? Amendment XIII Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. TimH Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/5/2004 4:46:20 AM   one word: Guantanamo !!! Nuff said !! scottlf Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/5/2004 11:04:33 AM   If you are responding to my comment, I guess not. What do you mean? TimH Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/5/2004 5:23:07 PM   Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, How many were held at Guantanamo, without trial ? Forced to wear silly looking orange suits, that made them look as if they had been Tango`d !! And we dont even want to begin to mention the stuff from Iraq !! scottlf Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/5/2004 6:12:43 PM   Tim, That is neither of the above. The debate is whether they are prisoners of war, or incarcerated for a crime. The war is over, so they should be sent back. If they are guilty of crimes, then what is the crime? The 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th amendments come into play. Now there are those that would claim that those amendments only apply to United States citizens. If you beleive in the Aliens and Seditions Act by John Adams, then I guess not. However, if you believe in Thomas Jeffersons view of these amendments, then all people apply. I tend to think the latter in this case. Man Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/5/2004 8:49:56 PM   I heard they had to let one of those Gauntanamo prisoners out a while back. Guess what? He went back to Afganistan and got himself killed attacking us. idiotdetector Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/6/2004 5:00:01 AM   scott, I do not know you system completely, but I know Austrlia pays much more tax than America, anyway, my point was that that our government is not relieving the fuel prices when it is possible for them, and then again, that was not my point at all. scottlf Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/6/2004 10:51:50 AM   I just view excise tax as a form of theft. What am I talking about. All taxes are a form of theft! Man Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/6/2004 11:41:26 AM   I'm not so sure that US taxes are that much lower than Australia ID, American officials don't take into account many things that would be considered taxes anywhere else. Such as Social Security, state,local and sales tax to name a few. scottlf Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/6/2004 12:05:24 PM   You neglect the most insiduous tax of all. Since the currency is not backed by some form of scarce resource (gold or silver in most cases), they can simply print paper money and devalue the money you DO have. TimH Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/6/2004 6:54:25 PM   I agree with you Scott, anyone on US soil should be treated the same in law as a US citizen, unfrotunately the US government got around that rule, by keeping them in Cuba, and therefore Not on US soil !! Dirty tricks brigade must have been up a couple of late nights working that one and any possible repercussions out !!! idiotdetector Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2004 5:25:52 AM   fuel taxes man, and it is well documented here that we are very heavily taxed on everything compared to most of the world, but we also have the lowest forien debt and life is still petty good scottlf Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2004 12:14:17 PM   ID, I can't find anything real very recent, but that debt is still increasing none the less. Per this article I dug up: http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rp/2002-03/03RP03.pdf T he gross foreign debt at June 2002 was $527 billion. After deducting Australia's reserve assets and lending abroad of $196 billion, there was a net foreign debt of $330 billion. After being fairly low and stable through the late 1970s and early 1980s, foreign debt increased steadily after 1981, largely as a result of the accumulation of high current account deficits and the expansion of Australian equity investment abroad. Part of this overseas investment was funded by increased borrowings. Between June 1981 and June 2002, gross foreign debt rose at an annual average rate of 17.2 per cent. The corresponding figure for net foreign debt was higher at 18.5 per cent, reflecting the fact that Australian lending abroad has not risen as fast as Australian borrowings. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2004 1:11:40 PM   TimH, Regardless of what you think of the current US government it does not change the fact that we are dealing with a dirty type of war conflict that no western country has ever dealt with before in this magnitude.... I cannot, in all good conscience, fault the government for taking unorthodox measures (guantamo, Patriot Act, Homeland Security Dept, etc) to try to find ways to protect our civilian population. Today fanatical terrorist organizations practice their tactics by attacking non-combating, unarmed civilian populations, not armies or military installations alone. The government found an effective way to prevent the pro-terrorist liberal bleeding hearts from protecting these enemies from causing more harm to innocent civilians. These Guantamo prisoners of war are not entitled to any constitutional right from the very same country they are trying to destroy.. Despite my many reasons for not liking Bush and his censoring bushiites, I support this government efforts to find, kill and destroy every single one of the murdering bastards who want to bring the planes my children may be boarding. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2004 1:13:09 PM   "...bring the planes down...." scottlf Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2004 1:55:25 PM   Not at the cost of my personal liberty. I disagree with the Patriot Act. "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759) A more direct and recent statement would be the following: Those who sell their liberty for security are understandable, if pitiable, creatures. Those who sell the liberty of others for wealth, power, or even a moment's respite deserve only the end of a rope. - L. Neil Smith scottlf Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2004 1:59:04 PM   And if I REALLY want to start an argument, I can start the parade of why can only a 3RD party protect my personal rights instead of me. http://www.libertyartworx.com/sept11.html GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2004 3:24:04 PM   Semanticate it all you want, lol....but the patriot act is here to stay (temporarily, I hope). And since the Act has not deprived me or my loved ones of any of the liberties I am accustomed to enjoy on a daily basis, I support it. And I have better things to do in this forum than argue with you about the validity of B. Franklin statements when taking completely out of context regarding a different time and a differetn purpose (independence) Be well, laugh often... Toad TimH Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2004 4:13:17 PM   "Today fanatical terrorist organisations practise their tactics by attacking non-combating," In the 70`s the IRA were doing just that all over the UK !! I didn't see any other western government jump to our aid then !!! Terrorists are not a new concept!!! Shit Genghis Khan was a terrorist !!! And so were the Romans and the Vikings !! To name but a few !! Terrorists by their nature have always attacked the soft target, I think they mistakenly think because we are democracies we have control over our governments and can help their causes by changing our governments policies !! Huh !! Thats a good one !!! "These Guantamo prisoners of war are not entitled to any constitutional right from the very same country they are trying to destroy.." But they DO have rights under the Geneva convention, and those rights were abused and refused !!! The grounds .. "They are being held in Cuba, Cuba is not a signatory of the Geneva convention" How convenient !!! But they are being held by the US and as such should be treated as prisoners of war !! Look at the stink that was kicked up when US prisoners were paraded on TV !! But it was ok when the US did it at Guantanamo !! And when they have been found to have done even worse in Iraq !!! One rule for one and a different rule for the others is Bullshit I am not ever going to accept !! GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/7/2004 4:49:28 PM   OK, Tim go ahead...arrange a meeting between bush boy and osama mamma to iron out the rules of engagement to satisfy your ideas of how everyone should behave. In the meantime I support a government who shows me it's trying to prevent more of its citizens to end up like Daniel Pearl. 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