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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Down But Not Out Author Post izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/5/2005 5:37:33 PM   Thanks Buran_Fan. Marina and I are still talking and I have confronted her with the attitude / verbal bashing problem, we are trying to talk things through. Doesn't look too promising though. She is formed at 37. Doubt that she will change and it will just be a repeat performance. If this really is done though I accept it. I have about 15 other women that I have struck up contact with one way or another and to be honest the majority look like a better bet. The reasons I say this are very pertinent. Marina is very worried about me and I don't mean my mental health ! She has a 12 year old daughter and a history of men letting her down. The end result is extreme independence coupled with extreme distrust. She is trying to protect her girl and herself. Who can blame her?? Some English American guy comes along, says he is the real article and expects a result. It is doomed without a lot of visits and cajoling etc. I have to wonder why someone with these particular hangups would get involved with international dating in the first place!! I mean there is a huge credibilty gap there. I know for a fact that these women get all kinds of propositions and outlandish offers sent to them. They get much more mail than I originally supposed. The dating sites give blurb and we all know who they are that these women are just camped out beside their inboxes waiting for an email from YOU. It isn't true, in fact ridiculous. They get tons of mail just like their American counterparts. A lot of it obscene. I have had several tell me this. So if you couple past experiences with this email phenomena you can see Marina's point of view. My problem is this. When do you say enough is enough? 1 visit, 10 visits, 1 year, 2 years what? It is a very dificult question. When do you throw in the towel no matter what your emotions are telling you. I have approached my new search a little bit more intelligently than my first couple of attempts. I am finding that it is not bad with women that have no children, younger and either divorced or never married. Even up to 20 years younger. The reverse of my original philosophy. It worked for Toad! I have found one woman with a 10 year old 20 years younger than me that is actually actively seeking a guy my age. She sent me an email openly saying that she made a mistake with her first marriage and is seeking an older man because she feels they are more stable. Boot on the other foot for a change. I am having some real confusion problems lately and no mistake. To be honest I really do in my heart of hearts believe that this last go round was a cockup pure and simple. I really did let my heart rule my head and I really don't mean my other head. However I really don't think there was any way to have avoided this except to go and experience. Ultimately none of us will really know any of the women we have contact with until we go and visit them. Talk about a roll of the dice!! GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/5/2005 5:45:07 PM   LMAO...did you tell this new woman 20 years yournger that you're older but NOT STABLE, lol? toad izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/5/2005 5:51:02 PM   My next problem is with these women from St Petersburg. I don't believe this. I sent out a lot of emails to all over the FSU. I deliberately decided that I would not pay attention to age, the age range they were looking for or location. Interesting things happened. Firstly the age range they are looking for seems to be irrelevent. It is also coupled with where they are from to a certain extent. For example a beautiful 32 year old in Moldova is much more likely to be seriously interested in you than the same woman in Moscow. Also their age is also irrelevant. Just because a woman is 20 years younger than you it shouldn't be assumed that you are out of the picture as in my above post. And I am fairly sure that a ton of it is quite genuine. Obviously there are scammers and strange people but they are in the minority. The one that asked me to go back every 2 months being a good example she also asked me how much do I earn and would it be possible to bring her mother and sister. Not an unreasonable question but on the 1st email? Lastly this location thing namely St petersburg. WEIRD !! Every woman from there says just tell me when you are coming. Or thinks I am a pervert. This is very unfair because I am rarely a pervert nowadays, the therapy seems to have been working and I am much better. They have generally been extraordinarily rude and obnoxious. Might be fun to just go to St Petersburg and see what is what. Then again...... Moscow is a little better I find. Thought I would throw this out there and see what happens. Bagira Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/5/2005 5:57:56 PM   Izi! You said : “if the woman has a child and it starts to get serious the kid has to write to me also on a very regular basis.” It is awful. Woman first need to think about feeling of her child. It is OK to force kid to adjust to step-father. But before the relationships is not as serious as that – no contacts with any of people whom woman write. And if the relationships just stating get serious it is also not the reason. I can make my child to accept any person but only ones. Then woman is sure that you is really for all her life but not just a step in checking if she suits you or not – there will not be any problems with any “problem child”. izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/5/2005 6:05:25 PM   Bagira I only have one thing to say - ridiculous. izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/5/2005 6:06:53 PM   It is a package deal. If the child obviously doesn't want you forget it, move on. Find a woman with a child that doesn't mind and the child is happy to write and get to know you. Bagira Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/5/2005 6:25:11 PM   Izi, Imagine that you live with your daughter. You begin a serious relationship with a woman. You push your daughter to write to this woman on regular basis. Then you decide that you do not get along with each other very well. You start other relationships, very serious one and push your daughter to write on regular basis to other woman. Imagine what will your daughter feel? How this experience will influence on her personality? They resist only then they are sure that they can change everything. Then all is already are decided they will not have any reason for bad behavior. I am sorry Izi, I was in the similar situation as you. izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/5/2005 7:11:20 PM   For now I stick with my idea I do not expect this to happen immediately. After maybe 2 months, I am guessing. I am trying to feel my way through this I have no idea if it is a good idea or workable. However i am not going to go through what I experienced before in Ekaterinburg. No way. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/5/2005 8:31:08 PM   NEVER in my wildest dreams this side of this one life I got I'd have thought I'd see the day when I'd agree with Bagira over Izi's request about direct communication with a child... As a single parent who raised 2 kids from ages 4-5 till ages 15-16 I dated many women from the internet and other places. Without exception, these women did not get to meet, visit, talk, send e-mails or even send presents to my children unless or until I had not only met, had sex, liked and established a solid friendship, but also until I decided that moving up into an exclusive relationship was the right thing to do. The distance between these women's location and my house played no factor whatsoever in my decision. Why should I have given a hoot about it? Protecting my kids from any potential psycho bitch from hell was a more important priority. Izi, Marina's kid only reflected the upbringing her mother was dishing out for her, with all the distinctive traits you described from kid's moodiness, to the chernobyl state of the refrigerator, chaotic kitchen, no school attendance and sleeping in till late every day. whatever you saw in the kid was not caused by you. As a parent I do not agree with your expectation and request whatsoever. I would, however, learn to ask the questions about the child direclty from the mother. That would tell you clearly what kind of upbringing she is giving her child. In fact, we should all do it if we plan to have more kids with that woman in the future. You do not need the kids to communicate directly for that. I'd suggest you talk to a child shrink to learn to ask the key questions. But simply put, our geographical disadvantage does not entitle us to expect any form of tribute from the kid's part. what we do here does not come without risks or failure. if it didn't have those elements you know many more men would be dating and marrying FSU or foreign women. If we're willing to give the women we visit first right of refusal when she sees us for the first time at the airport, what right do we have to expect a child to look up to us with having met us yet? None, I say. Toad GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/5/2005 8:43:20 PM   without having met us yet wmferg Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/5/2005 9:12:57 PM   izi, I guess I would have to agree with Toad on this one. My new lady has a 15 year old boy. I let her know that if he should wish to correspond with me directly I would be more than happy to answer his letters, or he could ask questions of me through her. I asked her however to not force him to. I can hardly think of a fster way to alienate a teenager, girl or boy, than to force them to sit down and write a letter to an adult that they do not know or at this particular time care about. Bill GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/5/2005 10:18:24 PM   Izi, Let me give you another angle. let's say you find a wonderful, beautiful available and willing woman that has a child. And she thinks like Wmferg, Bagira and I do about introducing kids to a new man. If I was in her shoes and read or hear your request with the explanation of what triggered it I'd tell you with hands ajar and hips swaying a la "Star Jones large and in charge attitude": "Well, that's what you get for not writting to me first, you moron. I hope you learnt your lesson. I'll introduce you to my kids when I, not you Mr. Queen of florida British colony, decide it's proper time in our relationship to do so. Until then, you keep away from my kid and if you want to know something about him/her, you talk to me, capisce?" I seriously doubt any FSU worthy woman would be talking to you that way....but they'd be thinking it, for sure for sure (calif dude accent.) toad aussieman41 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/6/2005 10:57:52 AM   Izzifadag, it is a disppointment but I think you did right thing going with your instincts about the lady. With my first foreign wife, I had the first meeting and she was nicer than her letters and despite her very poor living conditions she was very clean and tidy..I did this thing 16 years ago when there was no internet and all we had was snail mail and the telephone and it took about 4 weeks to get a reply to one letter because she lived in the bush in Fiji but it worked for me and we had 12 years together and 3 kids before we broke up due to irreconciable differences..the divorce was a mess because of the kids and screwed up my life for 3 years and only now are things on track and hell of a lot better. I too have expereimced a very dirty and untidy lady who was very moody in a past relationship since my divorce..it lasted 9 months and we were engaged to be married then I made the choice to get rid off her becaue she was driving me nuts and said very insulting things to me all the time and then denied she had said it..I could not take this bull shit any more and my kids did not like this lady and stopped coming on access visits to me because there was definitely smth wrong with her in the head. I sympathise with you..it was an expensive learning experience but I think you made the correct choice in dropping Marina. Move on and forget her..yoiur decision is correct! izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/6/2005 12:20:35 PM   Toad & WM Very good points and taken under advisement. As I said at the beginning this is an idea. I have no idea if or how to make it work. Good points I need to think about this again. Aussie Today I received the most negative destructive letter I could have possibly received from Marina. I wrote back and told her she had wasted both my time and my money. A complete waste. 4 months for nothing. Apparently my age is an issue plus a bunch of other things. I don't understand if age was such an issue why the hell was she dating a guy 26 years older!! I am only 12. I can only think money. That came up too. The whole thing stunk. It is absolutely over now with no going back. To be honest I am having serious, serious doubts about any woman from FSU right now. They can say anything they want in an email. Lie, hide motives etc. Then you go and SURPISE!!! I am thinking more and more that it makes more sense to look in Colombia. I live in S. Florida I can be there in 2 hours from Miami. Much cheaper and to be truthful there is only one way to know about any of these women. Meet them!! Trouble is it is so expensive and time consuming that it is really for the wealthier segment. I can do it but it is a stretch. Anyway the thought of going back right now is to put it mildly extremely distasteful. I think my luck is running pretty much as it has done the previous 49 years. Non existently!! Sorry to be a wet blanket at the party but that is how I feel. N()R Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/6/2005 12:54:18 PM   Izi, I am sorry you had to go through this. You know, some times life just suck. BUT, I want you to know that I understand you very well. Off course you will have less motivation after this experience(It can go both ways actually, some people will be more motivated by the struggle.. some not..). I tried to put my self in your situation, and I can understand you with all my heart. If I jump on an airplane, live about 2 hours away from Kiev, 2,5 hours from Moscow, 1 hour from Tallinn and so on... If these girls had been in Colombia, it would just had been unrealistic for me to even think about meeting someone. It is not a money issue, but mostly time and distance. I just would not go for it. And yes, you really have to be in the upper scale when it comes to finances I think, at least if you shall go and visit them, wich you off course have to do to get further in the relationship... I tried to say some few words about that in the tread about values and education. But, however the train haven't left the station yet my friend, you can always borrow a room in my house, and i will make sure you get a nice work here in wonderful Norway..lol..This way you can come with me on weekend trips now and then ;)) I pay about 300 USD for a roundtrip to Moscow or Kiev... Not bad.. Seriously Izi, it is about dreams and realistic expectations, you can live with the dream, or you can follow it, and see where the journey brings you. Or, you can sit down quietly and think what is more realistic for you.. May be Colombia is not such a bad choise after all? When all comes to all, I think the most important thing is to set some goals, and be positive. Marina was a shot in the dark, I sort of felt it before you told.. You didn't seem too interested of telling about your trip, the headinjury was more in the spotlight than the question of love, so I sort of had a feeling this was not like you had hoped for. We have all experienced it, may be not in FSU, but some time on our life, some where at the planet. You will never be a wet blanket at this party izi, I think it is great and really generous of you to speak about your true feelings. Actually by doing that you have helped me with a decision about one of the women I was talking with, you opened my eyes when it came to keep focus on what I actually was seeking, a nice, warm, loving and soft woman with the heart and the mind on the right place. I hope you don't leave us here alone izi, and I was serious about the room if you ever would consider move closer to the women for a period of time( no woman here to interfear with my offer..lol) Imagine what you could do in 6 months... any way, what are friends for? GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/6/2005 1:35:57 PM   Izi, When you know it's over it's important to close ALL the doors to protect your raw psychic from vindictive letters like the one she wrote you. Do not take her call, block her e-mail address and if you recognize her trying to reach you under any other name, quit readig, chatting or talking. Protect yourself. some women, and by your reports I would bet Marina falls into that group, take morbid pleasure on doing their best to trample all over you to bring their bruised rejected selves to a higher level of self esteem. Once the word got out that my trip was a success with Lena, up to 6 women I'd dated until last fall balistic on me making all sorts of unbelievable (or believable) threats. From wanting to chop off my nuts (scorned women's favorite) to contacting the Migra to prevent Lena from entering the US, to sending Lena compromising 'action' photo/videos of me and her... you need to put distance from this woman, mate. You did things honorably with Marina, I read your story in this forum and in heard it in person. You have nothing to be ashamed for, but you will if you wrap all the FSU women with the same wet blanket. That is not fair to any of the other ones or more importantly to yourself. I lived in Colombia for almost a year. I can tell you that I would rather marry a n american woman. That should tell you something after everything you know about me. What you endued with yur cuban wife will be magnified with a pretty colombian. I'd not go there. Besides it's simply bordeline suicidal to venture into Colombia as an american these days. E-mail me or call me and I'll tell you more. toad izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/6/2005 2:10:17 PM   I just want to say thank you to NOR and Toad. It means a lot. I have talked to others about this but unless they have been to FSU and know why we do this they can never understand. Toad I will take under advisement your warning. Latin women generally can be bitches beyond anything anyone can imagine. However they can also be wonderful, loyal and generally they know how to take care of a house. I am receiving a little pressure from latin friends. Thi si south florida you know how it is. Quite differnt from Norway NOR :) I am generally not in a good place right now. I am thinking why have I been so open to the world about my situation. I will tell all of you. I am hoping that by sharing my experience, thoughts and feelings with you all that I can help some of you to avoid making the same mistakes as me. If what I have done has helped one person to make one small decision, then I did the right thing sharing all this. Don't worry I will bounce right back bright and full of sunshine but at the moment I am a little lost. Ditto Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/6/2005 2:29:10 PM   Izi, what have you lost by being open with us? Nothing, so don't sweat it. You're out some money for the trip, but what have you gained? Some experience, some knowledge, and a better understanding of what you're looking for. Count yourself in the intelligent group, if you actually learned from your experience. Some people never do. izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/6/2005 3:18:08 PM   Thanks Ditto, you are right of course felicedate Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 4/6/2005 4:21:23 PM   Interesting... Being a man I very seldom have to admit that MEN(not women) are arrogant, selfish, self-assured and blunt cratures. Usually I see this in women. But after reading all this story abot IZI I have to say that I seriously doubt that he learned any lessons from half a year. I will not argue if you had a "click" between you and Marina,but how can you accuse that woman of something(laziness, moody child and whatever? I just can imagine what any my client would say to have a guy who agreed to live in her flat during the first visit! The first outcome - stingy, the second after "reluctant" agreement for sexual affair - decide yourself. OK. May be she got tired to wash the dishes after you but I can imagine this poor woman dragging an elderly British-American drunkard on her neck in the cold night of Ekaterinburg trying to find a place to repair his bleeding head, that he himself hurt being in the condition which is so usual to her local men. Most women coming to me ask for just "not-drinking" men. I imagine her reaction while she was dealing with this case! It tells about much... And after all this this person tells that he decided not to pay any attention to women's age! Guys, most women until their first meeting with a person much older than him think that such age difference is all right, 70% change their mind after this meeting. And finally what a nice phrase from an American of BRITISH origin "I lost my time and money with you!" No question about time but you could sit quiet with money staying at her appartment, eating what she cooked and making love with her. If you allow yourself phrases that can be addressed only to a whore so what's the problem? You get from her what a man usually gets from a whore. She paid you as much as she could for your money. Sorry to say this. I respect all you forum guys. But this man got what he is worthy of himself! 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