Viva: The bit you simply don't get in all of this is that the FSU is the simplest place in the world to find the "Real thing". You just seem to lack the cerebral matter to comprehend that. The X factor is that you have to be Man enough to cut it in that league. You could get mobbed by plenty of sweet kind young hotties in the right places of the FSU also, BUT they (Generally speaking) are just a touch smarter than to get sucked into being the "Chamber Maid" for some old geezer who hasn't got the goods to make good HUSBAND material.
Some of us mature beyond the point of wanting a cheap young bed warmer and some of us don't. That's entirely your call, but please don't spew your shite all over the internet because you don't have what it takes to make it in a certain area. I had the choice of the crop in Aisa and it is much easier to access for me than the FSU, but I wanted the best. Thats how I think and the best (For me) was located elsewhere. Like I said in that other thread, guys like you aim second class and usually succeed. Good luck sleeping with a dream, I prefer skin contact, which BTW gets hotter with time. Real relationships do that.
One can get mobbed by sweet young hotties in a whorehouse but isn't one meant to be hoping, looking for something a little more challenging than a mobster?
God how I find myself laughing at the arrogance of "I will have my cake and eat it too!" So much I will do this and she will do that and will obey my every command. Because I'm totally in control of all of this. I will scrutinize my list and if she does this or that I will write her off. Even though the things I abhorr that she does I will do myself. And if she doesn't like it, it's my way or the highway.
My question to guys like this. Why in the hell did you use a social or a marriage agency in the first place. I mean, damn you are so world traveled, why did you need an agency to hold your hand in finding a woman? You're so in control, but willing to let someone else control your destiny and then when it fails you are so willing to blame them because of your lack of real control or any prudence in judgment. So all the women in the FSU are crap because you lack good judgment, along with that real character.
Then after you fail miserably in your FSU endeavour, you come here to spew nonsense and tell us how wonderful some other country is. That is sour grapes as Martin called it earlier. You can try to bullshit some guys here, the ones that are not well traveled. To try and hand a guy like me the value of South American, Phillipines and Thailand over the FSU isn't going to fly. All the places I have been too multiple times. Lets see, Phillipines, how many americans end up dead is some back barrio because the hook he was with set him up for a few peso's, or maybe not dead but had the shit beaten out of him for a couple of hundred P. Or South America, guys getting set up by the locals for dope and a bounty and paying off bribes to local officals to stay out of jail. Or the merits of Thailand where per capita there are more prostitutes than any other country in the world.
Yep, those are the places I could compare against the corrupt scamming FSU.
So since I'm a absolute zero of a human being, I will come back to a site and tell all the newbies, freshman etc, what a waste of time the FSU in my great experience of one single trip there. Even better than that I will tell you what a waste of time Fiance.com is because I have the personality of a jackass and had to use an agency so they could set up their parade of women in front of me, so I could pick my trophy. You won't find good marriage minded women on a site like this. Really?
I think what infuriates me the most, is when you look at the history of some of the guys that come here, you know without a doubt they are destined to failure even before they buy their plane tickets. Though they will gladly comeback here and write a litany of nonsense of how bad the women of the FSU are. When they absolutely know diddly squat.
They think they are doing guys a favor of telling them how corrupt it is in the FSU then tout the wonders of South America, PI and Thailand. What a joke. Like those places are so full of honesty and integrity.
Do the new guys a favor, find another place to post your nonsense. Why write here and tell guys how bad it is in the FSU because you are a misfit and you couldn't find a good woman because you didn't have the brains or the character to do so. So since you failed, now it's your divine right to try to destroy someone elses chance at a lifetime of happiness. Well misery does love company.
I've learned over the years that there are two types of guys that search the FSU from the states. The normal average guy that is fed up with the cultural emasculation of the american male and the dregs and misfits that couldn't find a woman in any social situation because they are morally corrupt or they are control freaks.
I don't get the need to post nonsense here because you failed without first looking at yourself and seeing where you failed first.
Every time i get another scam letter from fiance.com i check in on u guys here. Today i am especially glad coz i hadn't seen the post from Nas, and it does deserve a reply. If i stepped on your toes, i deeply apologize, but i think i have made my point well and as politely as possible. It is not my intention of killing anyones dreams, but i think it is long time we look upon the thousands of posts by the dozens of those who have gone to the FSU, and struck out. Maybe you found success in your ventures, but where are all the other success stories??? I too thought my Ukraine trip was somewhat successful, but after using AFA in peru, i realized just how SHAFTED i was by the agency i used.
Some have found success in the FSU, i give all the congratulations in the world, but it just seems to me that you are another lottery winner.
I thought it was rather sad that you would call me a control freak and make other personal implications to my post. I think that deep down inside, you know i am right, and that is the real reason you stoop to personal insults rather then the discussion at hand.
Finding a good lifetime abroad partner is no easy task. All who seek to try something like this, need every advantage they can get to bridge the language and cultural gaps. English is widely spoken in the philippines, you can actually talk to the girl you are dating!!! That ALONE is reason enough to choose the PI over the FSU. As far as Latin america goes, most americas have a rudimentary understanding of spanish and the girls have some understanding of english. COMMUNICATION is the key to a successful relationship. Why go to the FSU, when a vast majority will know next to nothing about english, and "YOU" know next to nothing about russian. It would be UNETHICAL to recommend the FSU over other places for just this simple reason alone.
Another question that is bothering me, is that you somehow see all the disadvantages as "worth it" because the prize is so good, so valueable. What is it that makes an FSU girl so much better then one from Asia or Latin America??? I admit that i was only there in the FSU once, but i saw nothing to make me think that FSU girls were no more intelligent, moral, loving, graceful or cultured then their counterparts throughout the world. As a matter of fact, i found ladies of L/A and Asia to have more of these prized qualities then the FSU girls. (that is only my opinion from my experiences)
I must stand by my position that finding love in the FSU is really not a practical way of finding love anymore..... So I/O, load up the clue bat and let all u success stories sound off on this.....
I really am secretly hoping you can change my mind on this, cuz i DO feel i missed the boat on my Ukraine trip. I am just hoping some of u guys can show me that what i missed, is worth my attempt to try again in the FSU.
First of all, it was a generalization of many guys, but if the shoe fits wear it. I have read many post's here by the great trail blazers of how they were going to select a woman as if they were doing them a favor by bringing them to the land of milk and honey. Not treating them as human beings. Scratch her off, because of this certain criteria that was moronically established. Like choosing the players for the varsity of a high school baseball team.
So when you hand me your experiences of Asia and Latin American, I can make a judgement because I have been those places many times in my life. Sorry that doesn't sell with me.
If you found so many there cite it. Not just broad brush it. I met many of Larissa's friends over time, they are class human beings. I didn't let the language barrier stop me from learning about them. So since it was worth seeking this woman, I decided to learn to speak her language. Not the easy way, like some of us have rudimentary understanding of each others language.
It's almost as expensive for me to fly to Forteleza Brazil as it is to Kiev Ukraine and that depends on the time of the year. So it's surely not expense. Still you used AFA to find a woman in South America? Pretty much still a scam.
Still the question still stands, and I watched many of you dictate what the woman will do when she gets here, what here responsibilities are going to be. You wouldn't pull that same bullshit on an American woman. Why change the way you would date a woman in the states as you would one in the FSU? Because of your arrogance that we live so much better off than they do. Hey guess what? Life is changing in Ukraine. Not compared to ours but it's slightly getting better.
Is it worth a trip to the FSU? It boils down to the person. Those that have scripted agendas of finding the trophy wife, or the ones that do a self evaluation and honestly
say to themselves, I'm not going to do anything different than I would do at home.
You don't need scam letters from South America, because the greatest scam is the 11 million that are living here illegally. Proximaty has a lot to do with scamming via letters and via legs. We all know there are scammers. Hell the biggest scams where guys going to Mexico and finding brides only to be divorced a couple years later after the fools wives got green cards. The biggest difference between the two scammers is you have control over one and not the other. The FSU scammer I don't have to send money to if I am smart. The South American scammer comes into our country and uses our services for free, which comes out of my tax money. So I can say I have been fleeced by the scammers of South America than I have been from the FSU. I've never lost a dime to a FSU Scammer. So don't tell me about the great merits of the people south of the border. There's good people everywhere, but still you want to paint most of the people of the FSU as bad by just one single trip and experience with a rogue agency. I don't know how many guys have written, I know I have that you must separate the wheat from the chaff. If a girl isn't willing to walk away from the agency services, then I question how serious she really is about finding a guy. Once two people have met, via letters and telephone calls, what use is the agency? I don't want to hear about she's scared to meet alone, I didn't think meeting someone in a large city as Kiev was meeting someone alone. Remember you're going to her country. Especially in such a secure environment as the Sherbourne apartments.
You don't win a lottery with common sense! Lotterys are chance, with common sense and acting as you would in your own country and being yourself without the arrogance of where you come from, you can truly find an outstanding woman in Ukraine. I've had relationships with many women here and have been married, the only regret I have is I wish I would have met Larissa 20 years ago. No woman who ever became involved in my life could shine her shoes. Her character and heart is beyond any woman I have ever met in my life. Yes she's beautiful also.
My two cents worth - you mention you went with an organized Romance Tour Company (AFA) to South America - didja ever wonder if maybe THAT made the difference?!?!?!
Did you ever try AFA in the FSU? There is MUCH to be said of organized tours. You don't waste time reinventing the wheel with every trip - and there are SO many time wasters that can kill your productive time (actually being with a lady) if you just go on your own and depend on a potentially scamming agency that just wants to fish out of your pocket.
You are comparing apples to oranges here Viva - you went on your own to the FSU (and became agency food) and you went with people (plural) who knew what they were doing and were on the same side as you, to South America. And I'm not just talking about the Romance Tour operators - I am talking about the comradaree of the other participants. That's helpful too and shouldn't be underestimated.
Lets start with a comparison of MY results with the agency in Peru, compared to the many agencies i used in the Ukraine. I pretty much used the same approach with both. I wrote intro letters to 10 girls from 3 ukraine agencies and 20 girls from the one agency in Peru. Out of the 30 ukraine letters, i got back 5 responces. Out of the 20 i sent to Peru, i got 16 responces. Quite a big difference.... dont u think ??
The Ukraine agency that i took the trip with recommended that i not write to ANY girls before i went.
Now to compare trip results, i met with 9 girls in the Ukraine and 7 in Peru. The most of Ukraine girls were really great but had no means to communicate with me after i left. This was the biggest disappointment. After i got back home I only had one regular penpal from that trip. She too was wonderful, but spoke NO english and balked when i said i wanted to spend another week with just her.
The peru trip was much better, communication was a problem, but only a small one. I only had a real problem comunicating with one girl, and only becoz she spoke just waaaaaaay too fast. I met EVERY girl i wrote to, and we were able to communicate well enough to find out if we had anything in common other then physical attraction. I weeded out 2, and went home with 5 really good girls to go home and really get to know.
You also mention that some men "dictate" what theyre wives will do when we get there. I dont really dictate, i WAIT for a girl to tell me what she wants to do, then if it matches my plans and dreams, we can move forward. No need to tell them what I want, a girl just may lie to get ur attention. i let them dictate terms, and if i dont like what they dictate..... its surely time to move on.
You also talk about taking a different approach abroad as compred to how i date here. I must say i give the girls overseas much more leeway then i would give one here. Been divorced almost 2 years now and not even one USA girl has made it to the second date with me. Even some FSU girls got 2nd, dates with me and more, so i can say i would gladly date an FSU girl over an american one in a second, they aint bad in the FSU, just not so serious about long term relationships... (my opinion only)
By the way, your tears over illegal immigration are surely a subject for another message board, not this one.
Jetmba.... you bring up a excellent point about comraderee of other particpants. Heres my experience..... I went to the Ukraine with 10 other guys i would say that 9 out of the 10 were really sincere and standup guys. Only one got engaged but she made a run for it as soon as the plane landed and escaped to parts unknown. Only 4 guys went on the Peru tour, 1 was an openly blatent sex tourist and was surprised the agency didnt do anything about it. Another was questionable and that only left 2 really sincere guys, myself and one other who got engaged and is having a happy marrige as we speak.
Last but not least Olga, i have not forgotten you. I can say i get just as many letters now as i did when i first enrolled, but now all i get is letters from girls with agency emails (and we all know how honest and trustworthy FSU agencies are) It is my experience that most scams originate from "agency emails", so what is the problem with calling these "scam" letters ??? If the girl has her own email, i would not consider it a scam letter until i at least read it. I know, i know not all girls with agency emails are not scammers, but why even pursue an a surely dead end, when i can enroll on a filipino site and have a real responce within a matter of minutes??
It has never been my intention to run down FSU ladies, There are really really good ones out there, but how is the average Joe to find them??? The tour agencies are no help, translators blur the communication between the girls and boys, and FSU scammers pour out of the web like crazed ants.
Olga, i must ask you, and i hope you take no offense, but you see all the failure posts and complaints about scammers, dishonest agencies and the like every day. Hasnt the thought that you may be doing more harm then good ever crossed your mind? Could it be considered unethical to send poor unsuspecting noobs to the FSU when the deck is sooooo stacked against them.??? Sure some guys strike out because they deserve it, but for the most part, guys going overseas for love are really good honest and sincere guys and dont deserve the rows of barriers that they will face in the FSU.
viva, if any agency send you a "scam" email report it to the admin@fiance.com. otherwise do not call it scam. you have all tools to ignore emails from girls with agecny emails ifyou like, such messages, you are not paying for them.
I got in touch with several girls through fiance.com and then moved to private e-mail. All of them, I mean ALL of them either vanished after a while or proved not serious beyond any doubt. I have serious problems if a girl asks me to move to her private e-mail. Personally, I consider agency e-mail a sort of guarantee.
kingarthur,
A sort of guarantee for what, that you are writing with an agency interpreter when the lady may have no intention, indeed knowledge, of writing with you? :)
Martin,
I also had that sort of experience, I posted a lot about it here. I think now I can tell whether the girl or the agency is writing to me. Experience and mistakes are of some use, aren't they? :-) Ok, it should read "guarantee" with inverted commas. I mean that, if the girl and I agree to meet, chances are that we WILL meet, the agency has some responsibility in the whole process, don't you agree? To avoid misundertandings, I am never completely sure about anything when I play this game, and I had some bitter disppointments even with ladies I was corresponding with through their agencies. One of these ladies did not show up at all when I went there to meet her!!! By the way, I never reported that to admin. Maybe I should...
Interesting "thread" ... (geez Im picking up the lingo)
My UN-learned opinion?
The majority of everything in reality is weighted for Fems, and against the mere male.
I had a look in the womens forum too, there is no doubt there. I saw a lot of references to getting money, wanting money, wanting visas and basically living the high life.
been a looooong day.
On the other hand,... in THIS side of the forum, apart from the odd reference to tits and arse, MOST references of what GUYS WANT, is to do with life long partners... oh...and scamming females.
Which one of you guys is the stat man?
Have a look at a comparison between the profiles of all sexes, probably 99% say they want "other half, honesty, faithfulness, family values blah blah blah"
you could throw a blanket over the same old shit.
The only references I've seen about $ in the girls profiles has been "generous"... or in some cases "financial"... when in fact $ is one of the highest priorities in their forum?
Mind you, IF mr. 90kg DID do what the girl said, he needs a kick up the arse, but perhaps there was a bit more to than that. Who knows what SHE might have spung on HIM.
oh bloody hell.... I'm all sceptical again *laugh*
Just a bit more shit we male mortals have to contend with I guess.
have another wine Baz
cheers