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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Protesters update Author Post idiotdetector Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/11/2004 4:21:05 AM   I got no email shaggy and every time I see the news the proof has never mannaged to surface. Just more alligations. You did not make fool of me with proof because you have non. You just say you do. On the personal attact it was you who personaly attacted me first telling me to grow up and put on some big pant and shoot some kangaroos. Was that you idea of what you say to make friends Shaggy. That was your responce after I tried to bow out of it. Take responcability for you own actions and if you insult a person, expect to get it returned. At last at least we can agrre on one thing. There is no 100% easy side to take. I never sided with the terrorist, just disagree to the solution and I am tired of all government feeding us lies to get there own way. Nothing has realy changed for thousands of years. Domocracy is smoke and mirrors. Our priminister has been proven to have lies to us about the children over board insident but nothing will happen to him. If in a similar situation this happened in some private company, he would be out the door. It seems to me that being elected these days is a licence to deceive and you, in my opinion are following these lies with blind faith trusting in your all knowing leader. If you choose that raod thats fine for you, but the rest of use can question if we choose. You insult shaggy but hate to be insulted. In the immortal words of the great American poet "Eddie Vedder" " if you hate something, don't you do it too" nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/11/2004 7:48:13 AM   Scott And Atlas Shrugged, need I say more nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/11/2004 8:18:17 AM   Id I think the situation becomes when one man from another country condemns the actions of another? Personally I could care less how you feel towards me or my country, just if you feel that way then tell your country to not have any relations with us. I am sure we won't fall apart because Australia or any other country does not want our technology or aid in different areas. As a taxpayer, that wouldn't bother me at all. I was taught as a youth from my father, charity begins at home and if everyone took care of there own government intervention wouldn't be necessary. The problem with today and your thought as I see it is, most people do not want to accept personal responsibility and lay the blame at the foot of their government. Accept the responsibility yourself and with God's help it will be a better world. When you look towards government for help you are just asking to be enslaved by it. I am not in agreement with many things of the Bush administration, I am extremely conservative he is not. As for the war, I am in total support, we always don't know what is going on behind the scenes and it is meant that way. I believe in extremely limited government. I don't want them for welfare or support or enslaving a class of people as the liberals have here. So when a tactical nuke, God forbid is exploded is some part of the world by a rogue terriost organisation supported by a rogue regime who is going to respond? Fiji? Australia? France? Germany? I am being a bit facetious with that, It will be the United States because we are the beacon of freedom to many in the rest of the world and it is a hellish responsibility to have. One I wish we didn't have but accept it as part of being a free land. I don't wish freedom just for the US but for everyman, it is his God given right that is trampled on in many countries. Look at your country first then decide to clean house their, look at what Australia has classified as an assault weapon, silly isn't it? I am a pro gun, pro freedom at all costs individual and yes I am an NRA life member. Years ago there used to be bumper stickers that said the only way you will get my gun is prying it from my cold dead hands. Well that thought is very flawed if it comes to that point you have lost the battle already. Vigilance starts before the first shot is fired. In my country in the early years of the Revolution they had what was called a safety committee that watched the movements of British troops. We don't need that now, but a safety committee to watch our legislatures and expose them for frauds. We do not need changes in our constitutions, the document has been well served without changes. I guess what I am saying is work to get your own house in order and we will do the same here. If you throw stones at our leader accept the fact that you will get some thrown back. I won't insult you but I will attack you with facts and knowledge and I will document these, but you will refute them as hogwash, but the facts will still stand. So become involved in your political efforts in your own country, I am here in the US. If you are not involved in the political process keep your stones in your pocket and voting is not the main thing, but educating yourself is. Later Mike shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/11/2004 11:18:09 AM   Sorry Id I sent a letter to your email address listed. My comments about big pants is a joke popular in the us and yes was meant as satire. I appologize if it is that offensive to you. If you want to give me another email I would be happy to forward the letter I sent to you there. Again any personal attacks that took place I think you will find I made none that were not first provoked. Again I am not proud that I can be lured in to such but again I will always defend myself the same as you. My point of the letter was that we got along just fine until you found I was conservitive. Sorry I will not change for you but I am more than willing to not let political views ruin a friendship. I chose to write you off the forum but I think it is best to get it out of the way. shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/11/2004 11:21:00 AM   Please feel free to pick any point I have made and I will furnish the stories from several news agencies all recognized and factual. Again my biggest pet peave is the misinformation published on the web as truth and usually with no substance. I will not comment on things I have no knowledge or trusted information on. scottlf Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/11/2004 11:39:18 AM   Mike, Yep, you could mention to go see "The Incredibles". I think Ayn Rand would endorse that movie. Man Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/11/2004 1:32:21 PM   Well I am glad to see Nasfan Scott & Shag ( who is new to me) shedding light on this subject because you say it so much better that I could. I am an expatriate Aussie in the USA who used to be hoodwinked by the left biased media ( basically becaues I did not pay very close attention). It took me several years to understand that this Republic is unique and not understood by many who live in other countries.When I travel back to Australia I am always disturbed by how it has changed. It seems that there is a bias to the left in Australian media also.It is time that those people that think that America is the Evil Empire took at look at themselves more closely. shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/11/2004 11:36:28 PM   Thanks Man, I have been lurking for the last three months. It is good to have you and your experience in our forum. Just please remember that our views are not the most popular right now and there are those that are very passionate on both sides of these political topics. We have had some real tension of late and things are sometimes said without proper thought and tact. We are trying to keep things undercontrol as there have been some pretty bitter exchanges of late. So again thanks for your support. I know it can be hard to give sometimes. Thanks to you other guys as well for your continued support on these hot issues. idiotdetector Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/12/2004 6:39:05 AM   well ns you asked us to help but refused use help when we went to oversee east timor saying that you are not the world police. It seems that all is at your time and choosing. Do as we say not as we do is your motto as it seems lately. I have some points there but I will not get into it. You have the coalition of the willing so do not though that shit at me. Also as you said there is a lot going on behind the closed doors but you seem to prefer to think that all such thing are good thinmg by your government and that is truely the one thing that I am disagreeing with. You have your finger in a lot of pies and here and there you have pissed someone off. As for my own country, I do what I can but the gun thing was a joke. The money spend saved no ones life except the people who needed some quick money. I am not anti america, you are number 1 in ways and in truth its better you than some others. Still, it should not give you the right to do as you please, but it seems it dose. I disagree with the war but do not think we should pull out now, I have already said that. Just think that in the long term this dose not address the core of the problem, it only fuels there cause but the result will show itself in time idiotdetector Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/12/2004 6:46:03 AM   shaggy that is the correct address. And I may have prevoked you but not with insults. Except that time I said you should be hit in the head with something blunt and heavy but I will not apoligise for that because the comment you made to which I responded was haertless and rednecked. I am not saying that to you now but I stand by it as far as the previous comment you made but it was not about your political views. It was about saying that killing that 13 year old girl was probably the best thing for her. Everything else is fine with me, your views and whatever actions you do. You are free to do or say what you like and I will not carry it into any other part of this froum, or even hold it against you on a personal level. shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/12/2004 8:55:45 AM   Thank you Id but I think you are taking the 13 year old way out of context here. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/13/2004 6:10:32 PM   shaggy47435, you've repeatedly requested evidence of civil rights being violated under the Bush administration and since I came across the following article psoted today by reuters, I thought it provides a perfect example: New York Art Shuttered After Bush Monkey Portrait Mon Dec 13, 2004 03:57 PM ET By Larry Fine NEW YORK (Reuters) - A portrait of President Bush using monkeys to form his image led to the closure of a New York art exhibition over the weekend and anguished protests on Monday over freedom of expression. "Bush Monkeys," a small acrylic on canvas by Chris Savido, created the stir at the Chelsea Market public space, leading the market's managers to close down the 60-piece show that was scheduled to stay up for the next month. The show featured art from the upcoming issue of Animal Magazine, a quarterly publication featuring emerging artists. "We had tons of people, like more than 2,000 people show up for the opening on Thursday night," said show organizer Bucky Turco. "Then this manager saw the piece and the guy just kind of flipped out. 'The show is over. Get this work down or I'm gonna arrest you,' he said. It's been kind of wild." Turco took the show down on Saturday and moved the art work to his small downtown Animal Gallery. Calls to the management of Chelsea Market for comment were not returned. From afar, the painting offers a likeness of Bush, but when you get closer you see the image is made up of chimpanzees or monkeys swimming in a marsh. Savido, 23, said he was surprised by the strong reaction to his painting, listed in the catalog at $3,500. "It seems like people got a kick out of it," Savido said. "When they really see it, they almost do a double-take. I like to get a reaction from people." The Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania-bred artist said he was happy for all the attention paid to his work but said the decision to shutter the exhibit was "a blatant act of censorship." Savido plans to auction the painting and donate proceeds to an organization dedicated to freedom of expression. "This is much deeper than art. This is fundamental American rights, freedom of speech," Savido said. "To see that something like this can happen, especially in a place like New York City is mind boggling and scary." © Reuters 2004. All Rights Reserved. shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/13/2004 7:44:29 PM   wtrav I understant your intent but it looks as though the property owners did this not the city or government. I agree it is sad as the monkeys have done nothing wrong...lol :-) wmferg Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/13/2004 7:48:58 PM   wtrav02, I personaly do not see the correlation between a private art show and the Bush Admin. If I remember my civics correctly our constitution guarantees freedom of speech, it does not however guarantee freedom to be heard nor does it guarantee a person be supplied a soap box from which to speak. An "owner" or manager of a private business, newspaper, art gallery, or cable network (public air broadcast are different) may impose his own view as to what is appropriate. The fact that this artist was able to go down the street and reopen is a tastament that his civil rights were not violated. Man Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/13/2004 8:51:24 PM   ""idiotdetector Member well ns you asked us to help but refused use help when we went to oversee east timor saying that you are not the world police. It seems that all is at your time and choosing. Do as we say not as we do is your motto as it seems lately."" I thought the US was in Timor in some capacity. News of Timor was not covered very well in the USA, though. The reason I question you ID, is because a friend of mine was over there with the US Marines as a sniper. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/13/2004 10:01:06 PM   shaggy47435 and wmferg, this is part of a concerted practice of intimidation so that citizens think at least twice before they express themselves against Bush, his administration, and his policies. It is indicative to the dramatic shift that our society is undergoing. In another article, Georgia police shut down a theatrical show because they disapproved the nudity ... they said the producers should have obtained a license for adult entertainment. In dictatorships the only way for poeople to exrpess themselves was the arts, and when in a republic even this form of expression is censored, then the future looks really bleak. In Europe, people occasionally egg their ministers and prime ministers and I'm not saying this is right, but free expression of opinion is key in a democratic society. I do feel our society is increasingly beeing trasformed so that law enforecement and citizens with certain political views feel it is ok to restrict the views of other citizens. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/14/2004 2:01:43 PM   Wtrav, You call that evidence?????????? The article clearly states the market MANAGER decided to close down the exhibit. Where does it show any evidence whatsoever the US government had any involvement in his/her decision??? Freedom of expression does not mean you're entitled to choose the most profitable venue through which to advertise your "for profit" expressions or ideals. You are, however, free to establish your own market to display whatever satiric cartoon or paintings you wish to display, sell or advertise. It is a perennial liberal myth to assume that mocking, insulting and ridiculing conservative public figures deserves access to PRIVATE access. It does not. toad wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/14/2004 2:58:22 PM   GL TALL TOAD, my mom is American, my dad was born in Greece and you may know that Greece had corrupt kings and then a dictatorship from the end of WWII through the mid-seventies. My dad was chased down by the government because of his beliefs and had to leave to France and then to the USA where he met my mom. So, I know the limitations of freedom and civil rights in other countries first hand even if I have not been jailed and tortured personally like you did. I said that the attached article is evidence that various entities find it appropriate to limit freedom of expression because this is the culture that is prevailing in our country the last four years (and it will for four more years). This culture has been cultivated from the top down, ie. from the Bush administration down to the American society. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/14/2004 6:01:43 PM   Nonsense...your freedom of expression does not mean I, any other private citizen, entity or enterprise owe you anything in the form of pulpit to advertise your "for profit" items. Period. shaggy47435 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 12/14/2004 8:05:33 PM   wtrav you must surely be joking. You cannot posibly believe that the bush administration had anything to do with this. It is a simple judgement call on the manager of the company. If the government was behind it they would have just taken the work and been done with it. My bet is it was a media ploy to get attention and auction the work for more money. Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Protesters update
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