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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Salary in Ukraine? Author Post alexander Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/20/2009 1:54:55 AM   Most of the women you see on sites like anastasia and dream-marriage are not serious, most is 95% or more. Local agencies dealing with those sites just recruit girls. Girls are ok about it as they get some commission and have good time with men coming to date them, enjoy going out to nice restaurants, presents and stuff like that. Don't waste your time with girls younger than 24-25. Women brain in Ukraine works simple. And there are few steps. #1 the graduate school and enter university #2 study at university from 17 up to 21-22 - that the main priority for this age and they don't care about anything else much #3 after graduating the university they are searching for work. #4 when they are 24-25 and have been working for about 2 years they finally realize what the real life is and they are ready to start the family. So this is the perfect age for them to get married. #5 if a girl is close to 30 she's very desperate to get married. In Ukraine she's considered to be too old and most of the men won't even look at her. so I would say, if all these agencies were real, most of the women they have on their sites would be girls close to 30 and above. gecko Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/20/2009 2:58:32 AM   alexander is dead right. if you want to know if your dealing with an honest agency, look at the faces. on some websites, they are all models, on others, they look like real people. also some websites, like khersongirls.com, have pages that show you who has been married. while others, ten times the size, show you nothing. you have to use your common sense. can you get a model. sure. its possible. but i would say you need to be a pretty good catch yourself. craigsutton Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/20/2009 9:20:06 AM   alexander, What do you think about the socials that men pay to attend? Is this a type of a scam also? MicBinchey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/20/2009 6:06:50 PM   I war at those socials and then I was told about the way they collect women for that "play by Shakespeare". - Hi, let's go to the party tonight, a lot of stupid guys who paid for your champaign will look at you, speak to you and nothing more than that. You will have a nice evening and forget about those old dudes next day. Another way: - Wonna get some money, there is an old jerk tonight, just tell him not to close his front door at the hotel and ask for some money in advance and it's up to you then to go or not for the rest of the sum. Think real guys alexander Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/21/2009 2:03:53 AM   Well... I've been talking to some women going to those type of socials and they were not really serious about it.... just go out, drink champaign for free and have some fun. So MicBinchey is right. Just fresh example, a guy met a girl at this social, a girl got some interpreter with her later when they decided to meet. They were meeting for couple of days, and then this guy got not very comfortable with theinterpreter who was the friend of the girl, so he asked me to find some other person to traslate for him. I did. He told the girl about it, he has never seen the girl again. MicBinchey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/21/2009 5:44:51 AM   The salary, I'm sure they earn more. I was at the Kobeleve resort and in Nikolaeve and Odesa. I wish I could live like that all the time. Crowded night clubs, restaurants and pubs. They spend lots of money there. One can spend at least 500 hryvnas a night. And they go there almost every day. I was a little bit disappointed with the prices in some restaurants. And they still were full of people (young people) so if the salaries are as low as Alexander says, where do they take money? I saw reallt poor people when I asked my guide to show me the public transport. Trams were awful and full with nervous and I think not so wealthy people, but they were all old people. And all young (I mean up to 40) people I met were not poor at all. I would agree with Armin(Bonddd). craigsutton Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/21/2009 7:04:56 AM   So what you guys are saying is, don't believe the BS about socials from the like of AFA and others? What is the age difference between the men and women that most guys think is ok? What am saying is, the men who are on this forum, who have travelled to FSU countries, what do you look for and what makes you stay away? alexander and MicBinchey, you have both mentioned about attending the socials, where you new to this when you attended the socials and just went for look or were you serious? What advise can you give, because I've noticed a large amount of agencies have the same women listed on them and It's difficult to work out who's on the commission? I'm looking for a lady 32-39y/o. Cheers. gecko Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/21/2009 8:46:50 AM   'American business practices and mentality must be catching on quickly to the local Nikolaev sirens' i would say that these are russian business practices. why do you think americans are so gullible? its not because they have been fucked over all their lives. americans are generally trusting for a reason. and yeah, i'm aware of the collapse that took place last year. i would partially agree about the socials. i do think it is possible to meet someone. there are always girls that are new to the scene, maybe divorced with child, who are hoping just like us that they might meet someone they click with. usually it doesn't happen. but is that anybodies fault. if your going to come into this being skeptical about everything, then why are you even here? craigsutton Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/21/2009 8:21:01 PM   I'm glad you are aware of the collapse gecko. I don't understand, ' why do you think americans are so gullible?' statement. Is it not men from one particular country that are gullible? I also mentioned my in my previous statement about 'American business practices and mentality', for a certain reason, and that is, most of the agencies that i see listed have an American office address as it's main base. I think to myself, ' how can you run a business properly and keep a watch over the women and the agencies staff, that are thousand's of kilometers away, in an industry that has a shocking reputation for dishonesty and scamming foreign men??' We have read the horror stories, surely we cannot blame all the men?? MicBinchey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/22/2009 6:22:04 AM   Ok, that's my advice. Better to say it's my experience. Last I was in the Ukraine I met a guy who just gave me his card and asked if I needed an interpreter. He charged 10 dollars ph and that was OK as the agency interpreters charged 15 or 20. That wasn't the only benefit. He found apartments for me that was twice cheaper than my accommodation. He told me a lot about dating business in the Ukraine and I felt myself an asshole. And I just thought - Hey, the right way is to have your own agent in this country, someone who represents only your interests. He has to be well paid but you'll be sure in what you're doing. Now I'm sure about those girls I'm going to meet because I have someone who checks their identity and how serious they are. I have my profiles on Russian and Ukrainian dating sites, on Vkontakte and Odnoklasniki these are the same as facebook or myspace. I am really excited with mamba.ru millions of women you can meet them for free just need to have a russian profile and someone who can translate from time to time. So what I have with my own agent 1. Cheaper accommodation, transportation, interpreting (more than twice) 2. I don't spend my funds for not existing women and scamgirls, I don't pay for letters, translations, gifts, flowers, visits. 2 I always have my own guide and adviser 3 And he is also doing the women search for me that's what I like best. I just need to watch their profiles and agree or disagree. I'm going to visit the Ukraine next spring, and I'm sure that it will be my last voyage as a single. So have your agent but be sure he is not engaged into dating business Take care Olga Moderator send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/22/2009 9:05:24 AM   MicBinchey, yes sure if an agent help you to find a date, he is "not invovled" into a dating business. otherewise you are right. Agency is supposed to help girls and be their agent to all these sites. in our undestanding ladies should pay agencies for services, the same as men do. alexander Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 9/22/2009 10:28:29 AM   You agent will play on your side, that's a big benefit ;) I am not sure I know MicBinchey, but things he's talking about are very smart and that's what I am telling guys I meet all the time. I would post a link for Mamba here, but I guess that's against the rules of this forum as that will be advertisement... I have a link for Mamba and Vkontakte at my site, so if you find my site, you will find those links too ;) not sure if Odnoklasniki is good to find a date... Mamba is the best. Vika Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/10/2009 5:56:12 PM   Well I may be able to clear this questions for you guys :) Every member of my family in the Ukraine is a doctor, and in fact, my mother is one of the best specialists in the Ukraine, she is working at two places and earning about $500 a month, which is considered to be a very high and competitive pay. Normally health worker back home can make from $70 dollars a months, it would be a nurse most likely, though pay is going up depending on where you work, as well as how many years of experience you have. My sister is a General Practitioner and she makes aprox. $200 dollars a month. Yes they do get extra monies sometimes but they have to go ten extra miles in order to do that, which may involve working outside of normal hours as well as they have to pay their travel expenses while working or being on a call as a doctor. If you want to have Ukrainian wife , I have to say that you can find a good one, but you have to go there and see for yourself how the life is like. I am living abroad for 9 years and though I am Ukrainian myself, I still wander how people can make ends meet back home. It is a hard work and very often you have to count every penny to make sure that you will be able to survive. A lot of people do have family members abroad who can help them to survive as very often it is not a question of buying extra pair of shoes but having food on the table. With regards to restaurants... it is only up to you if you want to go to an expansive one, but from my experience , quality is the same , though if you want to feel like VIP YOU PAY VIP prices. Ukraine will always be different and if you want to find a good wife, look in a small towns but not in the places with super expansive price tags as normal people will never afford to go there ... All the best luck in your head hunt :))) Vicki tribalogical Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/11/2009 10:34:52 PM   Mission Man, I've lived and traveled extensively in Asia. Lived for 12 years in Tokyo, and spent time in both large urban areas like Shanghai and some much more rural areas around Nanjing. I think there are distinct parallels to what you're seeing, and that FSULover is right, it has much to do with who you associate with there. There is certainly an "upper/middle class" developing in the FSU... plenty of money being earned, relative to their past economy at least. And in places like Shanghai, you could easily imagine that the general population is doing pretty well for themselves these days, that they've gained a robust middle class at least. But it isn't so at all. There are plenty of people earning "well" (again relatively speaking), but those are in fact the urban exception, and not the national rule... e.g. CEO of the world's largest bank (in China) earns 250,00US$ a year. Plenty of perks too, no doubt, but that's it. When you look at the cost of living, he's fabulously wealthy. A friend in Shanghai has a housekeeper. She earns 80 cents an hour!! (And she feels she is paid well!) Go out into the smaller towns and rural areas around Nanjing, and hourly wages can halve... actually, you can sometimes forget the hourly wage concept completely. Everything in the villages and smaller towns is done on a deal-by-deal basis. It boils all the way down to a simple barter & trade system... It's even true here in the states. When I visit my dad in Wisconsin (he's an artist), everyone he knows lives in converted barns, funky houses in the 'working class' areas of town, and when I considered moving to Milwaukee and asked about typical wages there, I was told something about half of what I earn in Los Angeles. It depends on who you associate with, and the perspective of their "social tier".... I'm sure there are plenty of people being industrious and affording plenty of luxury (and putting that first to build-up appearances), but the average is in fact lower, with the vast majority living hand to mouth... Interesting point here: What could people like us bring to the equation? I'm as open to living over there as having my (future) lady come here. With a few thousand $$ what kind of business could you start there? Put a few locals to work, and earn comfortably enough to have an "upper-middle class" or better lifestyle there... wouldn't be so bad would it? alexander Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/13/2009 12:36:09 PM   tribalogical, what China has to do with Ukraine? Or maybe I missed something here? Muzzy Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/13/2009 3:23:52 PM   Alexander, I think he's trying to demonstrate a nation with large, unpredictable and unexplainable wage disparity, in contrast to a more stable, equal western economy. His description does seem to fit the inconsistency of the claims and counter-claims on this thread. Nando Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/13/2009 3:30:35 PM   Nikolaev is the city with more agency girls in Ukraine. Girls are paid a cut of for meeting foreigners most of the times. A fat American bloke from "A Foreign Whatever" agency was sit next to me instructing two women about this process. I go to Nikolaev for 3 years now and had a girlfriend for one year from there. Her salary last year was 1000 grivnas working for the Ukrainian government.It is not only girls from agencies that scam, sometimes they operate by themselves if their English is good. Last month I went to the night clubs and they were full everybody partying like there was no crisis. If a girl is pretty with men (Ukrainian also not only foreigners)paying everything it is not difficult got them to dress nice clothes. My ex-girlfriend bought some nice boots two years ago that cost 100 Euros roughly a month of salary. Agirl working in a shop last year earned between 250$ and 500$ last year if it was really hard work (meaning many hours) according to two of them I met. Now much less because of Grivna devaluation. Alexander is right in what he says about Nikolaev and the way of living. tribalogical Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/13/2009 7:04:41 PM   Sorry, Alexander, I wasn't trying to directly compare the countries or their circumstances. :) I guess my point was, more simply, your perspective can be deeply affected by the "company you keep". It can alter what you perceive as "normal" in any given situation. I was answering a specific post from a person who got his ideas based on the company he kept... I landed in Japan on an expat package, great salary, full housing and transportation provided, etc. The people I associated with and interacted with the most had one idea of "average life" in Japan. Also, the employees of that company down to the newest were paid above average wages. Now, not too long after I went, a friend of mine also went to Japan on an "expat" package, but for an English teaching job at Nova (basically the McDonalds of English schools there). He was paid about $1,600 a month, plus a stipend for housing and transportation. Most of the students were on a budget. Young women paying out of pocket from their day jobs to learn some English. When we would meet for some food and drink, trust me, our perception on the "averages" were quite different! I saw the Izakaya (essentially eating and drinking bars) packed every night with "average" folks. You don't get out of there without spending $20 ~ $30 easily... with a typical bill being as much as $100... So if, as he sees things, the average Japanese earns a modest $1,800 a month (my girlfriend's apartment cost $1,500 a month alone, and it wasn't luxurious by any stretch!), how could they afford to party so often? Conversely, knowing what my team was paid, it seemed perfectly "normal" to go out often, and I never questioned my initial assumptions... :) My China analogy was also meant to illustrate that although the expensive bars and nightclubs of Shanghai are packed every night with well-dressed and apparently moneyed locals, that doesn't necessarily reflect the realities of the country in general? Having traveled widely, I've found this notion to be true regardless of the country or its broader economic circumstances... it even applies in our modern Western countries to a great degree. Ask a small town mechanic about "life's averages" then go to a city and ask a young banker the same question. You'll get really different answers! :) So, depending on who you spend your time with, you'll come away with their perspective coloring your own. OK, have I flogged the point enough? :D :D :D tribalogical Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/13/2009 7:15:32 PM   By the way, a nod of appreciation to both of you, Alexander and Armin (and to all), for sharing your insights here. As someone new to this "FSU" thing... it helps steer my thinking on the best way to approach it. The more I read, the more I learn, the clearer it becomes. If I decide that the quality of women I'm meeting online tell me it's time to get really serious about finding a life partner from the Ukraine, the best way to go about it is to: - move to Ukraine, live there for awhile and absorb the culture - hire a "personal agent" or "personal assistant/personal concierge" to take care of my "scouting" and other support needs. After all, if earning $200 ~ $300 a month at a steady job is a good wage for them, then me offering that for a full time PA position wouldn't be a bad deal for them, right? The job wouldn't end if I found a good life match. I would still need a regular interpreter, and want a good PA to help with many aspects of daily life. They'd have to be trustworthy, have initiative, be good at interpreting, and doing the job of scouting places like mamba on my behalf. Outside of that, someone well-connected could also help open doors to business and other things it makes sense to pursue if one is going to live there. @ MicBinchey, I'd love to know the name of the fellow who helped you find your success. Do you think he'd be willing to be hired at a flat, above-average salary for a potential long-term arrangement like I described above? If you think so, could you PM his details to me? @ Vika, your input helped steer this thinking. Thank you :) I'd love to hear more from you, since you are native to Ukraine. peace. VNVnation Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/13/2009 11:04:09 PM   tribalogical, here is my $.02. You're not going to find out much about the "quality" of women from emailing translated letters and the occasional online chat. You need to go there and meet some real ladies, see how they live, and try to understand their mentality. If you do this, and decide that you want to continue, the best possible course of action (IMHO) is to learn Russian and/or Ukrainian and go live there. Don't mess with a personal assistant and scouting websites. Just go live and be a part of the community. Try not to associate exclusively with other expats. You will meet people soon enough and eventually meet a lady the normal way--through work, friends of friends, or just in a cafe or store. The key is that you have to learn the language. Otherwise, in the locals' eyes you'll always be just a foreigner/mail-order bride seeker/sex-tourist/etc... Most ladies that I know have a very strong mistrust of foreigners who aren't living a normal life--working, speaking the language, going to the supermarket, etc... I did what I have suggested to you, and it was 1000 x better than messing around with online dating. Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Salary in Ukraine?
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